Advice from me for the me of 4 years ago...

[Nickelpennykid]

Now you're faced with something new
And I know it hurts and I know you feel torn
But you never gave up this easily before
So why do you choose today to give it all away
Well it's not so bad y'all
Together we all fall
Just as long we get up we'll stand tall
We shouldn't waste another day
Thinking 'bout the things that we forgot to say
I'm hittin' back y'all
Kickin' these four walls
Just as hard as I can til I can't crawl
I won't waste another day
With all these silly things
Swimmin' in my brain
There's no giving up now
Do you really want to give this all away
Can't you ever see things in a different way
Somedays
No giving up now
Such a beautiful thing to throw away
You should think things through
Over and over again
All over again
So your scars fade away
You soaked up the pain
A better person 'cause you lived through those days
And now you know what it's like to prove
You can overcome anything that gets to you
Well it's alright
We're sayin' our goodbyes
To the past and everything that ain't right
We won't waste another day
With all these silly things in our way
I know we have given
All that we can give
When there's nothing to lean on
Well, I remember this
All we make of this lifetime
Is always here within
And remembering that's why
We should never give in
There's no giving up now
----Crossfade-------

Please stop posting this crap. Someone made a thread with a motivational speech that was equally as annoying.

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[ruinevil]

Please stop posting this crap. Someone made a thread with a motivational speech that was equally as annoying.

Then don't read it?

 

[DragonWell]

And the point of reviving this thread was? I'm sure that the OP has long since moved on with their life. I wouldn't give yourself carpal tunnel typing advice...

 

[CTrainSJU]

And the point of reviving this thread was? I'm sure that the OP has long since moved on with their life. I wouldn't give yourself carpal tunnel typing advice...

I disagree. After reading the OP's story and some time spent in solitary self examination I withdrew my accptances to med school, deposit money be damned. I figured that the proverbial "hoops" I would be required to jump through as a DO just made my dream of becoming doctor incredibly undesirable. I've read a lot of classic literature but nothing has so profoundly affected me the way this did.

 

[CTrainSJU]

Haha

 

[DragonWell]

I think I'd be more sympathetic if I didn't notice his posting in the rads forum.

One of my pet peeves is when people complain how tough a time they have getting a residency because of the DO, and then mention they are going for an uber-competitive specialty. It's no secret that DOs have a primary care leaning, yet I see so many people in DO school who feel that doing PC is the end of the world and have their heart set on derm, ortho, rads. It's an obvious recipe for disappointment, IMHO.

 

[CTrainSJU]

I think I'd be more sympathetic if I didn't notice his posting in the rads forum.

One of my pet peeves is when people complain how tough a time they have getting a residency because of the DO, and then mention they are going for an uber-competitive specialty. It's no secret that DOs have a primary care leaning, yet I see so many people in DO school who feel that doing PC is the end of the world and have their heart set on derm, ortho, rads. It's an obvious recipe for disappointment, IMHO.

Agreed.

 

[orthointern]

I WISH I wanted to be a pediatrician! Heck, maybe after a few years, I even will. Seems every other kid going to med school wants to go into Ortho these days - even knowing there is a surplus of them out there & its a competitive and very long residency doesn't stop 'em. Ah well....
I'd like to know what the OP was aiming for & ultimately chose.

not sure if there is a surplus or not but im an ortho intern and im already getting job offers in the mail (my name must be on a list somewhere) for like $600,000 per year etc.....sounds good to me

 

[CTrainSJU]

not sure if there is a surplus or not but im an ortho intern and im already getting job offers in the mail (my name must be on a list somewhere) for like $600,000 per year etc.....sounds good to me

Nice Ortho, where did you go to med school? Did you find it hard to match into?

 

[toothless rufus]

I think I'd be more sympathetic if I didn't notice his posting in the rads forum.

One of my pet peeves is when people complain how tough a time they have getting a residency because of the DO, and then mention they are going for an uber-competitive specialty. It's no secret that DOs have a primary care leaning, yet I see so many people in DO school who feel that doing PC is the end of the world and have their heart set on derm, ortho, rads. It's an obvious recipe for disappointment, IMHO.

No, you should be able to go into whatever you like. Med school is med school. It's not like the osteopathic curriculum only prepares you for PC.

 

[Kuba]

I think I'd be more sympathetic if I didn't notice his posting in the rads forum.

One of my pet peeves is when people complain how tough a time they have getting a residency because of the DO, and then mention they are going for an uber-competitive specialty. It's no secret that DOs have a primary care leaning, yet I see so many people in DO school who feel that doing PC is the end of the world and have their heart set on derm, ortho, rads. It's an obvious recipe for disappointment, IMHO.

The OP said their COMLEX barely tickled the mean, right? It doesn't matter where they went to school, MD or DO. they probably wouldn't be matching rads...

 

[H0mersimps0n]

I think I'd be more sympathetic if I didn't notice his posting in the rads forum.

One of my pet peeves is when people complain how tough a time they have getting a residency because of the DO, and then mention they are going for an uber-competitive specialty. It's no secret that DOs have a primary care leaning, yet I see so many people in DO school who feel that doing PC is the end of the world and have their heart set on derm, ortho, rads. It's an obvious recipe for disappointment, IMHO.

I didn't so much "complain" about the tough time I am having getting into residency because I am a DO. On the contrary, during my interview season for radiology I did not receive a single malignant question by allopathic programs about being an osteopathic student. My point was that my own ineptness was keeping me from fully achieving my dreams and I found myself settling too much in my life. I also found it difficult to work through my ineptness at a DO school that didn't provide the hand-holding I later realized I needed.

To get back to the point, yes, I'm applying to radiology. My attitude in life is that I need to deal with the cards I have in my hand. I weasled my way into 6 allo radiology (all community) interviews which is quite an achievement (read: miracle) considering my board scores. I had to go "the extra mile" to get them though.

The match is March 12th, I did not do the DO match.

Wish me luck...

Live the dream...

Damn I was in a dark place when I posted that OT.

 

[toothless rufus]

I didn't so much "complain" about the tough time I am having getting into residency because I am a DO. On the contrary, during my interview season for radiology I did not receive a single malignant question by allopathic programs about being an osteopathic student. My point was that my own ineptness was keeping me from fully achieving my dreams and I found myself settling too much in my life. I also found it difficult to work through my ineptness at a DO school that didn't provide the hand-holding I later realized I needed.

To get back to the point, yes, I'm applying to radiology. My attitude in life is that I need to deal with the cards I have in my hand. I weasled my way into 6 allo radiology (all community) interviews which is quite an achievement (read: miracle) considering my board scores. I had to go "the extra mile" to get them though.

The match is March 12th, I did not do the DO match.

Wish me luck...

Don't dare to dream...

Damn I was in a dark place when I posted that OT.

Dude, congrats on your 6!! interviews!! I hope that you match at your favorite!! Good Luck!!!!!

 

[DragonWell]

No, you should be able to go into whatever you like. Med school is med school. It's not like the osteopathic curriculum only prepares you for PC.

It's not so much an issue of curriculum, as it is about students having unrealistic expectations : scoring near the mean on the MCAT, having a mediocre science GPA, and matriculating into a DO school with the idea that they'll only be satisfied with ortho, derm or rads. Then, when it doesn't work out, blaming the DO degree for their situation. On a reread, kudos to the OP for not taking this path and instead recognizing his/her responsibility for the grades, boards, etc.

And especially, congrats to the OP on getting the miracle shot!

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I think I'd be more sympathetic if I didn't notice his posting in the rads forum.

One of my pet peeves is when people complain how tough a time they have getting a residency because of the DO, and then mention they are going for an uber-competitive specialty. It's no secret that DOs have a primary care leaning, yet I see so many people in DO school who feel that doing PC is the end of the world and have their heart set on derm, ortho, rads. It's an obvious recipe for disappointment, IMHO.

Also, rads, etc. are tough matches for md students, too. I suspect that the op would be having similar problems matching had he upped that mcat and gotten into an allopathic program. An allopathic student with a 210 on the usmle probably isn't going to match rads either.

To reiterate what other people are saying, I'm not getting what this has to do with osteopathic education.

 

[tkim]

The match is March 12th, I did not do the DO match.

I'm applying to EM - withdrew from the DO match. However, had I only received 6 allo interviews, I would have stared pretty hard at the osteo match.

Prelim year is going to be your year. But don't discount this year's match yet.

 

[DragonWell]

Also, rads, etc. are tough matches for md students, too. I suspect that the op would be having similar problems matching had he upped that mcat and gotten into an allopathic program. An allopathic student with a 210 on the usmle probably isn't going to match rads either.

To reiterate what other people are saying, I'm not getting what this has to do with osteopathic education.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're getting at...as I mentioned above, I see it more as a student based issue than anything to do with curriculum.

My point is that students might be able to avoid some disappointment by taking a hard, realistic look at where they're at and where they want to go and making sure that there is some overlap between the two. If there's not, it's time to either step it up as the OP has done, or to re-evaluate your goals.

While it's true you can do any specialty you want as a DO, provided you ace your boards, do research, have great LORs, etc, it's less likely that these things will happen if you haven't already built a strong academic foundation. Data showing a strong correlation between MCAT BS score and Step I score suggests to me that MCAT scores are probably at least somewhat reflective of this academic foundation.

In spite of this, many students begin med school believing that everything will be different and they will somehow change from a B or C student to an A student, ace the boards and match rads. And while some do, for many of us, that first anatomy test is just the beginning of many rude awakenings to come. I'm sure this happens to some extent in every med school; however, since most DO students are entering with lower MCATs and exiting with lower board scores than MD students, I think the "disappointment effect" is likely to be amplified at DO schools.

 

[CTrainSJU]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're getting at...as I mentioned above, I see it more as a student based issue than anything to do with curriculum.

My point is that students might be able to avoid some disappointment by taking a hard, realistic look at where they're at and where they want to go and making sure that there is some overlap between the two. If there's not, it's time to either step it up as the OP has done, or to re-evaluate your goals.

While it's true you can do any specialty you want as a DO, provided you ace your boards, do research, have great LORs, etc, it's less likely that these things will happen if you haven't already built a strong academic foundation. Data showing a strong correlation between MCAT BS score and Step I score suggests to me that MCAT scores are probably at least somewhat reflective of this academic foundation.

In spite of this, many students begin med school believing that everything will be different and they will somehow change from a B or C student to an A student, ace the boards and match rads. And while some do, for many of us, that first anatomy test is just the beginning of many rude awakenings to come. I'm sure this happens to some extent in every med school; however, since most DO students are entering with lower MCATs and exiting with lower board scores than MD students, I think the "disappointment effect" is likely to be amplified at DO schools.

Doctor Bagel: I suspect that the op would be having similar problems matching had he upped that mcat and gotten into an allopathic program. An allopathic student with a 210 on the usmle probably isn't going to match rads either.

You two are saying the exact same thing. It does not matter if youre allo or DO, if you don't cut it due to board scores or just a lack of motivation then you don't cut it. The two letters following your name don't matter.

 

[OHMAN0125]

Doctor Bagel: I suspect that the op would be having similar problems matching had he upped that mcat and gotten into an allopathic program. An allopathic student with a 210 on the usmle probably isn't going to match rads either.

You two are saying the exact same thing. It does not matter if youre allo or DO, if you don't cut it due to board scores or just a lack of motivation then you don't cut it. The two letters following your name don't matter.

Trust me those two letters do mean a difference if all else is the same (ie. Board scores, recs). From the residency director's mouth of a university based radiology program..."Yeah we don't even look at DOs unless they killed the Step 1". Yes I was shocked at this statement. But it is the hard truth unfortunately.
Also want to add that they mentioned if you got less than 210 as MD you're screwed unless ur in the top 20 of ur class.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Trust me those two letters do mean a difference if all else is the same (ie. Board scores, recs). From the residency director's mouth of a university based radiology program..."Yeah we don't even look at DOs unless they killed the Step 1". Yes I was shocked at this statement. But it is the hard truth unfortunately.
Also want to add that they mentioned if you got less than 210 as MD you're screwed unless ur in the top 20 of ur class.

That is the harsh truth, hopefully people will understand what DKM and I had been saying in the other threads ...

 

[CTrainSJU]

Trust me those two letters do mean a difference if all else is the same (ie. Board scores, recs). From the residency director's mouth of a university based radiology program..."Yeah we don't even look at DOs unless they killed the Step 1". Yes I was shocked at this statement. But it is the hard truth unfortunately.
Also want to add that they mentioned if you got less than 210 as MD you're screwed unless ur in the top 20 of ur class.

I didn't imply that the two letters following your name don't matter period. I said that if your grades suck, it doesn't matter if you're MD or DO, you dug your own grave and won't get the residency you want (if it's a semi-competitve field).

 

[MD/DO ALMOST]

I was under the impression that VR on the MCAT correlated most directly with USMLE step one success, not BS. Anyone....???

 

[CTrainSJU]

I was under the impression that VR on the MCAT correlated most directly with USMLE step one success, not BS. Anyone....???

I have heard the same.

 

[DragonWell]

I was under the impression that VR on the MCAT correlated most directly with USMLE step one success, not BS. Anyone....???

The data I have seen showed that BS had a strong (.8) correlation with Step I COMLEX score. VR, PS, undergrad GPA, and undergrad institution did not. Disclaimer: This has been hotly debated many times before, that's just the data I've seen, not the final word, etc...

 

[OHMAN0125]

The data I have seen showed that BS had a strong (.8) correlation with Step I COMLEX score. VR, PS, undergrad GPA, and undergrad institution did not. Disclaimer: This has been hotly debated many times before, that's just the data I've seen, not the final word, etc...

I've never heard about VR correlation. I always heard about the MCAT composite score being a good indication.

 

[SunshineNYC]

I think you have a really bad attitude, but at least you recognize that you have put yourself in your situation and that you can't spend forever blaming people around you for your own mistakes and weaknesses. That being said, stop dwelling on your past mistakes and start moving forward from this point. This is the situation you are in and being depressed about it isn't going to get you anywhere, focus on the new goal at hand. You are where you are, now make the best of it. Also, remember to put yourself first. It seems like you had a pattern of putting the goal ahead of yourself and that caused you to fumble a bit... you should always remain the priority and if you need some time for yourself to figure things out, then take it and forget about the other pressures around you because your needs will always be lurking in the background and if they are not attended to, they will trip you up.

I do agree that if you don't want to do something, then don't feel pressured to do it, whether the pressure is financial, familial, from one's peers, or for whatever reason... only do what your heart is in because otherwise you will do a half-assed job and you will hate every minute of it. Your story can serve as a learning tool for others, thanks for posting it. It was very honest and valuable. Good luck with your future endeavors.

 

[Obedeli]

Given recent events, this should really be moved over the match forum.
Homer's original post was incredibly open, sincere, and wise. I would add that don't fool yourself into thinking that if you can just squeek by the next test you will be OK. Radiology has three extra tests involved, all of which have been known to cause residents not to finish. There is a physics exam, written, then an oral board examination at the end of the residency. As I am sure Homer learned in school, getting into medical school is not the end. Test taking is what higher education is all about. This will likely never change.

 

[lateapplicant]

Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, Family Practitioner... sounds great to me. I grew up in the lower-middle class and I wouldn't know what to do with the money hard-core specialists are making.

The OPs msg did make me think though. As you can tell by my name, I'm a late applicant and up until now have been willing to go pretty much anywhere. This year I didn't get any MD School interviews in Canada, mainly I believe due to an M on the writing section (as two promising schools take your best two years I had a 3.8GPA but the MCAT cut off for interviews was 30Q, no exceptions). So maybe I should consider the debt (the Canadian schools cost 1/3) and increase my application over the next year?

Here it is:
-I don't care about the initials that follow my name, I'll be doing the same thing regardless and believe respect is earned in other facets... plus I pro-DO anyways
-I'm applying with a 3.5 culmulative and science that will be closer to 3.6 by the end of my current 5th year undergraduate.
-31M first time on the MCAT... willing to retake but not ecstatic about the idea
-Good ECs, typical LORs
-Not really a fan of doing a masters.

Should I retake the MCAT focusing on my writing sample skills which I neglected previously, maybe try and pay off some debt?

Anyone out there regret taking a year off? I'm worried/aware that if I wait a year I may end up in the same place with a 30P.

Thanks and good luck, to the OP and all other SDNers.

 

[Nickelpennykid]

It's not so much an issue of curriculum, as it is about students having unrealistic expectations : scoring near the mean on the MCAT, having a mediocre science GPA, and matriculating into a DO school with the idea that they'll only be satisfied with ortho, derm or rads. Then, when it doesn't work out, blaming the DO degree for their situation. On a reread, kudos to the OP for not taking this path and instead recognizing his/her responsibility for the grades, boards, etc.

And especially, congrats to the OP on getting the miracle shot!

This is the best thing posted in this thread. OP had a bad day, made a post and because it came out of the mouth of one DO student, a pack of pre-meds lost hope in an osteopathic education.

Sure, it has happened where people on the bottom end of their accepted class land a competative surgical residency, but the majority of the time it is not a reality. Reading SDN, it seems like 70% of everyone wants to go into either ortho/derm/neuro/plastics, etc. Guess what, not gonig to happen. Don't blame the DO school

 

[Obedeli]

Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, Family Practitioner... sounds great to me. I grew up in the lower-middle class and I wouldn't know what to do with the money hard-core specialists are making.

The OPs msg did make me think though. As you can tell by my name, I'm a late applicant and up until now have been willing to go pretty much anywhere. This year I didn't get any MD School interviews in Canada, mainly I believe due to an M on the writing section (as two promising schools take your best two years I had a 3.8GPA but the MCAT cut off for interviews was 30Q, no exceptions). So maybe I should consider the debt (the Canadian schools cost 1/3) and increase my application over the next year?

Here it is:
-I don't care about the initials that follow my name, I'll be doing the same thing regardless and believe respect is earned in other facets... plus I pro-DO anyways
-I'm applying with a 3.5 culmulative and science that will be closer to 3.6 by the end of my current 5th year undergraduate.
-31M first time on the MCAT... willing to retake but not ecstatic about the idea
-Good ECs, typical LORs
-Not really a fan of doing a masters.

Should I retake the MCAT focusing on my writing sample skills which I neglected previously, maybe try and pay off some debt?

Anyone out there regret taking a year off? I'm worried/aware that if I wait a year I may end up in the same place with a 30P.

Thanks and good luck, to the OP and all other SDNers.

It is easy to say "family practice?...sure!" before you go through medical school. I graduated from an allopathic medical school and was thankfull radiology existed. I am thankfull I had so many options outside of primary care on graduating.
Even I think I would have thought about doing family practice before medical school.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, Family Practitioner... sounds great to me. I grew up in the lower-middle class and I wouldn't know what to do with the money hard-core specialists are making.

The OPs msg did make me think though. As you can tell by my name, I'm a late applicant and up until now have been willing to go pretty much anywhere. This year I didn't get any MD School interviews in Canada, mainly I believe due to an M on the writing section (as two promising schools take your best two years I had a 3.8GPA but the MCAT cut off for interviews was 30Q, no exceptions). So maybe I should consider the debt (the Canadian schools cost 1/3) and increase my application over the next year?

Here it is:
-I don't care about the initials that follow my name, I'll be doing the same thing regardless and believe respect is earned in other facets... plus I pro-DO anyways
-I'm applying with a 3.5 culmulative and science that will be closer to 3.6 by the end of my current 5th year undergraduate.
-31M first time on the MCAT... willing to retake but not ecstatic about the idea
-Good ECs, typical LORs
-Not really a fan of doing a masters.

Should I retake the MCAT focusing on my writing sample skills which I neglected previously, maybe try and pay off some debt?

Anyone out there regret taking a year off? I'm worried/aware that if I wait a year I may end up in the same place with a 30P.

Thanks and good luck, to the OP and all other SDNers.

Ever considered applying early to US Allopathic schools? With a 3.5-3.6 GPA and 31 MCAT (US schools do not tend to put AS MUCH heavy emphasis on the writing section score), you may have a shot ...

 

[cemented]

Posted in wrong place

 

[lateapplicant]

Posted in wrong place

I completely agree that I slipped that post in there when it really belongs in the "what are my chances"... sorry about that. I just wanted specific feedback from those who have been involved in posting or read this thread.

I was trying to avoid the feedback about whether I should retake the MCAT and get advice rather on whether anyone regretted waiting like the OP suggested way back when, or conversely, also rushed into matriculation with regrets. I included my situation, stats, worry about debt and thoughts about waiting a year to paint a picture of what I'm looking at.

Thanks for your perspective Obedelli and Dr. Inviz.