Advised not to apply neurology...basically a WAMC thread

[sfbull14]

To get right to it, spoke to an adviser at my school last week, who essentially told me I wasn't competitive for any MD or DO neurology residencies given my COMLEX (low 530's) and no USMLE. I could understand if that's the case for the allopathic programs, but I'd love advice about the AOA residencies...pondering whether to just apply MD/DO IM instead. (Class rank top 1/3 to 1/2; Honors in half of the cores, High Pass others; research with 1 pub, 1 abstract, before med school; random EC things, not sure if important)

Essentially, my question is, should I bother applying for neurology residencies, or just put all my effort into IM? (my 2nd choice, I could still be very happy in IM). If I did apply MD, it would be very broadly (80+ programs) + 8/9 DO programs. (in process of setting up auditions, which is why I'm panicking.)

Sorry for all the words, I'm terrible at being brief...

(Edit: realized some of what I wrote was confusing, tried to clarify)

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[Thama]

Why not take the USMLE if you're interested in ACGME residencies?

 

[sfbull14]

Definitely should have, let myself get talked out of it, but too much time has passed since boards and would likely do poorly on Step 1 if I were to take it now. I am taking USMLE Step 2, unsure if that will help, but I figure it's better than nothing. Not arguing with you though, not taking Step 1 was a very poor decision on my part.

Of more of a concern is the DO programs though, I think. Trying to figure out if I have a shot at those...but again, if not, I'd be applying to DO IM programs, and I'm fairly certain I'll at least get interviews at a few places I like, and I'd likely try for some of the dually-accredited programs with in-house fellowships.

 

[bustbones26]

To get right to it, spoke to an adviser at my school last week, who essentially told me I wasn't competitive for any MD or DO neurology residencies given my COMLEX (low 530's) and no USMLE. I could understand if that's the case for the allopathic programs, but I'd love advice about the AOA residencies...pondering whether to just apply MD/DO IM instead. (Class rank top 1/3 to 1/2; Honors in half of the cores, High Pass others; research with 1 pub, 1 abstract, before med school; random EC things, not sure if important)

Essentially, my question is, should I bother applying for neurology residencies, or just put all my effort into IM? (my 2nd choice, I could still be very happy in IM). If I did apply MD, it would be very broadly (80+ programs) + 8/9 DO programs. (in process of setting up auditions, which is why I'm panicking.)

Sorry for all the words, I'm terrible at being brief...

(Edit: realized some of what I wrote was confusing, tried to clarify)

Are you kidding me? Is your advisor and actual doctor or professor? 530 is not low, its average. I have seen individuals match into solid residency programs, across different specialties, with lower scores. Here is a secret that you should learn right now. In the academic world, those who score really high on exams will always tell you that scoring less than anything above average, is below average (if that made any sense).

I did not do an AOA residency; however, a number of my colleagues did and they had solid training. Some landed fellowships at prominent institutions. By the way, do not make the mistake of believing that AOA residencies are less competitive. While it may be true that the Mayo Clinic and MGH do not have osteopathic neurology residency programs, it comes down to supply versus demand. Last I checked, there were 9 AOA-accredited neurology residencies, not sure how many slots that comes down to (give it five minutes, some medical student will tell me and probably correct me on my numbers), but in comparison to ACGME programs, it is obviously much lower. Consider that the number of osteopathic schools has more than doubled since I went into medicine and every rural region is turning a former 7-11 into a new school, which means more graduates to compete with.

Lastly, I apologize if my response came off as abrasive or sarcastic, but I do wish you well and think it is a shame that somebody would discourage you from neurology. While you did not score in the 700 range, your score is solid and hopefully there is more to your application.

 

[sfbull14]

Are you kidding me? Is your advisor and actual doctor or professor? 530 is not low, its average. I have seen individuals match into solid residency programs, across different specialties, with lower scores. Here is a secret that you should learn right now. In the academic world, those who score really high on exams will always tell you that scoring less than anything above average, is below average (if that made any sense).

I did not do an AOA residency; however, a number of my colleagues did and they had solid training. Some landed fellowships at prominent institutions. By the way, do not make the mistake of believing that AOA residencies are less competitive. While it may be true that the Mayo Clinic and MGH do not have osteopathic neurology residency programs, it comes down to supply versus demand. Last I checked, there were 9 AOA-accredited neurology residencies, not sure how many slots that comes down to (give it five minutes, some medical student will tell me and probably correct me on my numbers), but in comparison to ACGME programs, it is obviously much lower. Consider that the number of osteopathic schools has more than doubled since I went into medicine and every rural region is turning a former 7-11 into a new school, which means more graduates to compete with.

Lastly, I apologize if my response came off as abrasive or sarcastic, but I do wish you well and think it is a shame that somebody would discourage you from neurology. While you did not score in the 700 range, your score is solid and hopefully there is more to your application.

Not at all abrasive, I appreciate the response. And I completely understand AOA residencies for neuro will
Be competitive (~20 spots or so) I just didn't entirely believe my application would be doomed because of the score. Very much appreciate the advice!

 

[Thama]

Honestly only about 60 percent of neuro slots filled with US seniors, so there are a lot of DOs and IMGs matching into neuro. Not all of them are rock stars. In general if you can match IM you can probably match neuro by the numbers, so just do well on step 2 and apply broadly, including little known and newer programs if you're concerned.

 

[TUGM]

^ Exactly what bustbones26 and Thama have said. Scores are important, but in neurology, the impression I got was that programs are more interested in candidates that actually WANT to do neurology. With some hard work, good step 2 scores, and letters, you shouldn't have a problem.

 

[sfbull14]

Sincere thank you for the responses, I'll try to set up electives at both ACGME/AOA places and go from there...again, thank you for the advice!

 

[MrDocMD]

I'm a U.S. MD, but my DO friend applied neuro last year with COMLEX scores of 450 and 460. She got plenty of interviews and matched at a good program. She had no research, but did have a lot of extracurriculars and she interviews well so take that into consideration. Bottom line, anyone who tells you that you can't match neuro is someone not to be listened to. They don't know what they're talking about.

P.S. She didn't take the USMLE. It may limit your options, but it won't kill your chances.