All Electric Sports Car

[PikminOC]

having charged EVs myself, it definitely takes longer than plugging in a phone. The cable is just a bit larger and you actually have to pop open the port to charge it. But that's just me. You have bad experiences at gas stations, I pull into empty ones that are on the road I drive home on with no panhandlers and it doesn't get cold where I live.

But my friend with a Tesla had to bring it in for 2 days to get the doors realigned when he bought it because it is so poorly manufactured other than the battery that it is quite common for things to not really work.

I'm not anti-EV, it just not easy enough to get me to switch right now. I don't really want to worry about finding somewhere to stop and charge for 30-45 minutes when we go on a road trip with the kids. When the infrastructure is more universal I will adopt.

I looked over the car and denied one of them due panel issues. I wouldn't accept one like that. Growing pains. Wait until these new ones come out like Rivian etc.

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[Mman]

I looked over the car and denied one of them due panel issues. I wouldn't accept one like that. Growing pains. Wait until these new ones come out like Rivian etc.

In about 10 or 15 years I will likely be a buyer, just not now. Companies like Tesla are battery and technology companies and just don't have the polished manufacturing of car makers, especially luxury car makers. They simply don't feel luxurious or well made even though technology is amazing.

I need them to be better at making cars and have better nationwide infrastructure.

 

[PikminOC]

In about 10 or 15 years I will likely be a buyer, just not now. Companies like Tesla are battery and technology companies and just don't have the polished manufacturing of car makers, especially luxury car makers. They simply don't feel luxurious or well made even though technology is amazing.

I need them to be better at making cars and have better nationwide infrastructure.

TSLA has nationwide infrastructure. And the car I got in theater batch was made much better! I have two of them a 3 and a y

 

[Mman]

TSLA has nationwide infrastructure. And the car I got in theater batch was made much better! I have two of them a 3 and a y

if I go to the mall, there are like 2 chargers out of thousands of parking spots. If I drive to my parents 5-6 hours away I have to plan a route out of my way to stop and charge.

It isn't widespread and ubiquitous and it forces people to plan for the charging.

 

[<(^_^)>]

I'm not anti-EV, it just not easy enough to get me to switch right now. I don't really want to worry about finding somewhere to stop and charge for 30-45 minutes when we go on a road trip with the kids. When the infrastructure is more universal I will adopt.

The fastest charging ones are more like 20 minutes so some progress there. It’s not gas, but it’s now actually approaching what my typical stop might be if I’m getting food on a road trip ( probably 15 min).

Interestingly the 0-60 figures actually underestimate the gap between electric and gas

2022 Porsche 911 Turbo Review, Pricing, and Specs 0-60 in 2.2 seconds (with rev dumping etc and launch control that no one does real world) vs 3.7 seconds 5-60 which simulates accelerating without any launch control or rev dumping. Just hitting the pedal.

Tested: 2021 Tesla Model S Plaid Is Absurdly Quick but Also Has a Few Key Flaws in contrast a Tesla will do 0-60 and 5-60 in about the same time. That means instead of being “about as fast” it’s way way way way faster in the real world. They’re just stupid quick. Obviously a family sedan won’t hold up in other areas, but the acceleration does live up to the hype. It’s a shame that other fit and finish issues continue to be a problem even on their most expensive cars.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

 

[Twiggidy]

How about the model x?

I’m just not feeling it. I think I’m also biased because I know several Tesla owners who have had to wait months for what should be simple repairs. For example, had a relative who had a window broken and it took like 6 months to get the replacement. And I’m talking about the small window towards the rear door. I got my Highlander window replaced the next day in like 4 hrs

 

[GassYous]

I’m just not feeling it. I think I’m also biased because I know several Tesla owners who have had to wait months for what should be simple repairs. For example, had a relative who had a window broken and it took like 6 months to get the replacement. And I’m talking about the small window towards the rear door. I got my Highlander window replaced the next day in like 4 hrs

I know someone who got a new model y with a dent in the trunk. They refused to look at it and when he forced them to, they refused to fix it.

 

[PikminOC]

I’m just not feeling it. I think I’m also biased because I know several Tesla owners who have had to wait months for what should be simple repairs. For example, had a relative who had a window broken and it took like 6 months to get the replacement. And I’m talking about the small window towards the rear door. I got my Highlander window replaced the next day in like 4 hrs

All the new EVs have long wait times due to lack of parts.

 

[PikminOC]

if I go to the mall, there are like 2 chargers out of thousands of parking spots. If I drive to my parents 5-6 hours away I have to plan a route out of my way to stop and charge.

It isn't widespread and ubiquitous and it forces people to plan for the charging.

Yes I can a route where I can stop and eat at the same time as charging as 5 hours is a long drive all at once.

 

[Mman]

Yes I can a route where I can stop and eat at the same time as charging as 5 hours is a long drive all at once.

it's fine that where you live it fits your lifestyle. I can't stop the car for 30 minutes every couple hours on a road trip and even if I did I would have to go out of my way and add drive time just to get to the slow charger. For me, 300-350 miles is a no stop road trip. Once we start going 500 miles we will plan a stop somewhere in the middle.

It'll improve over time. I'm mostly interested to see if we get a standard charger for all cars.

 

[GassYous]

it's fine that where you live it fits your lifestyle. I can't stop the car for 30 minutes every couple hours on a road trip and even if I did I would have to go out of my way and add drive time just to get to the slow charger. For me, 300-350 miles is a no stop road trip. Once we start going 500 miles we will plan a stop somewhere in the middle.

It'll improve over time. I'm mostly interested to see if we get a standard charger for all cars.

300 miles makes my asa hurt

 

[Mman]

300 miles makes my asa hurt

need a car with massaging seats

 

[pgg]

It's such a time saver tho not having to do maintenance or stop at gas stations.. I plug in my car to a regular wall outlet just like you do your phone. And its charged up !

I guess ... ?

I can't say I've ever felt like a 5-10 minute stop at a gas station a couple times per month was a real hardship. Certainly not a hardship I'd pay a $30K+ premium to avoid.

And as a guy who spends a fair amount of time traveling, the uncertainty of charging while staying at hotels, or in the middle of a longer drive, is certainly not a benefit or a "time saver" compared to pulling into one of the 73,281 gas stations I'll pass along the road.

Glad you like it, but convenience isn't a really pro in the electric vehicle column.

 

[<(^_^)>]

I can't say I've ever felt like a 5-10 minute stop at a gas station a couple times per month was a real hardship. Certainly not a hardship I'd pay a $30K+ premium to avoid.
(…)
Glad you like it, but convenience isn't a really pro in the electric vehicle column.

I agree just on time, but it was nice to never think about filling up. I never had to charge outside the home.

For “performance” crossover/SUV I would say we are at $ parity already. Bmw ix is similar price to BMW X5 m50, bmw i4 vs m3, Taycan vs comparable Panamera etc. Fueling a V8 can mean 15 mpg, or 4,000 a year in gas at 4 bucks a gallon. That’s not nothing, even for a 60-80k vehicle.

For economy cars 100% agree. You don’t save as much gas and EVs usually are 10k more. A Corolla hybrid is 24k, and gets 50 mpg. So per 100 miles about 8 bucks vs 5 for EV. In many states you pay an extra 100-200 annually in road taxes, so there’s not much savings there.

Once chargers are widespread (not just major highways) and charging time gets to 5-15 min, range won’t matter as much, which will mean cheaper, faster, lighter EVs.

 

[PTPoeny]

it's fine that where you live it fits your lifestyle. I can't stop the car for 30 minutes every couple hours on a road trip and even if I did I would have to go out of my way and add drive time just to get to the slow charger. For me, 300-350 miles is a no stop road trip. Once we start going 500 miles we will plan a stop somewhere in the middle.

It'll improve over time. I'm mostly interested to see if we get a standard charger for all cars.

Clearly you don't have little kids...
My family can't go longer than 2 hours in the car without a bathroom break and my car charges from empty to 80% in less time than it takes to get the two little ones in and out of the bathroom. I got my electric car initially assuming we would use my husband's ICE for road trips until EVs with bigger batteries and more cargo space come out. But both my husband and I prefer driving my car and once we figured out that charging is faster than bathroom breaks we only take my car now. Obviously lots of different situations out there that make different things work for different people. But not going to gas stations is so much more amazing than it sounds.

Charging speeds are improving and we are really down to two charger types from three as even Nissan has moved to CCS. I suspect eventually there will be one charging standard.

 

[sevo00]

I don't really want to worry about finding somewhere to stop and charge for 30-45 minutes when we go on a road trip with the kids. When the infrastructure is more universal I will adopt.

common misconception. no charge ever takes me 30-45 mins. It takes 20 mins to fully charge my tesla. In those 20 mintutes i stop at the rest area, eat my lunch and go to the restroom. it really doesnt effect the overall commute time much since i was going to stop to do those things anyway

 

[Mman]

Clearly you don't have little kids...

when your kids are slightly older they can zone out watching movies or playing games for hours on end in the backseat.

 

[PikminOC]

Someone ran a red light and hit me today. The video on the Tesla shows everything. It's still driveable so it can be driven until fixed.

 

[GassYous]

Someone ran a red light and hit me today. The video on the Tesla shows everything. It's still driveable so it can be driven until fixed.

I'm getting an error message that says the requested content cannot be loaded which seems to be par for the course for tesla workmanship according to this thread

 

[coffeebythelake]

Clearly you don't have little kids...
My family can't go longer than 2 hours in the car without a bathroom break and my car charges from empty to 80% in less time than it takes to get the two little ones in and out of the bathroom. I got my electric car initially assuming we would use my husband's ICE for road trips until EVs with bigger batteries and more cargo space come out. But both my husband and I prefer driving my car and once we figured out that charging is faster than bathroom breaks we only take my car now. Obviously lots of different situations out there that make different things work for different people. But not going to gas stations is so much more amazing than it sounds.

Charging speeds are improving and we are really down to two charger types from three as even Nissan has moved to CCS. I suspect eventually there will be one charging standard.

You said improved charging technology over time. Is it the charger or is it the battery?

 

[pgg]

Someone ran a red light and hit me today. The video on the Tesla shows everything. It's still driveable so it can be driven until fixed.

That sucks

Sorry to hear that. How fast were they going?

I'm fascinated by how some cars crumple and some hold up in impacts. When my son had his learner's permit he made a left turn in a beater Honda Civic we had at the time into (slow) traffic and hit the front quarter of a Hyundai at about 90 deg. Literally broke the wheel off the Hyundai and knocked it under that car. It had to be dragged off the road onto a flatbed with a winch. We drove the Civic away, bought a used $100 or $200 bumper off the internet, and the Civic was fine. Kept it another 5 years until a neighbor bought it.

 

[PikminOC]

I'm getting an error message that says the requested content cannot be loaded which seems to be par for the course for tesla workmanship according to this thread

I took the pic and posted with my android phone

 

[GassYous]

I took the pic and posted with my android phone

Seriously sucks man I'm sorry that that happened to you.
I like how there's a bp in the background though

 

[PikminOC]

Seriously sucks man I'm sorry that that happened to you.
I like how there's a bp in the background though

Its ok it happens.

 

[wendalltwolf]

What should they call the Sony-Honda EV?

Driveman, or Drivestation?

 

[vector2]

We don't take that many road trips so the stopping to charge thing isn't an issue for me. But I also don't mind stopping since the superchargers are usually in some plaza where you can get food, drinks, shop etc.

I HATE stopping to fill gas each week, and I've hated it since long before I had an EV. I hate it for the same reasons I hate going to a big box store to buy essential household items. It's a mindless waste of time where I could be doing literally anything else.

I bought a used model S P100d with 6k miles and I've put about another 15k miles on it. I drive it hard. I've had to go to the shop for service and maintenance about an order of magnitude less than I've had to with my 2nd gen CTS-V which I bought with a similar number of miles and which now has 35k.

 

[nimbus]

We don't take that many road trips so the stopping to charge thing isn't an issue for me. But I also don't mind stopping since the superchargers are usually in some plaza where you can get food, drinks, shop etc.

I HATE stopping to fill gas each week, and I've hated it since long before I had an EV. I hate it for the same reasons I hate going to a big box store to buy essential household items. It's a mindless waste of time where I could be doing literally anything else.

I bought a used model S P100d with 6k miles and I've put about another 15k miles on it. I drive it hard. I've had to go to the shop for service and maintenance about an order of magnitude less than I've had to with my 2nd gen CTS-V which I bought with a similar number of miles and which now has 35k.

My sister has a p100d with free lifetime supercharging and she’s taken multiple cross country road trips in it. It does require some planning but the app makes it easy. She’s a Tesla enthusiast and very satisfied with her car.

 

[norski]

Big caveat: Norway. EV cars cost about 65% of their ICE equivalents due to taxation. Superchargers and other charging stations are all over the place for that reason. Plus, "green" electricity is really cheap. Mostly.

My old '10 X5 diesel's transmission failed spectacularly after being bludgeoned to pieces by the mid axle(that' s approximately what the mechanic said) two weeks ago. All in good fun. We'd discussed, previously, several times just cutting our losses and getting some sort of EV, but living in BFE, or rural Norway, we were sceptics.

When the X5 crapped out on us, it was sort of liberating. My gen surg buddy has been on my back for a long time to make the move, ended up buying a tesla y. While it looks like an obese 3,the 3 is pretty good looking, and I've never been a hater of chunk.

Onwards. Hopped on a plane to pick it up, proceeded to drive 1500km to get it home.

Outcome: a lot better than feared, not any worse than I dared hope. Sure, I could make that drive in the beemer on one and a half tanks of diesel, but I spent the total of four charges watching F1 docus on netflix, the latter three with my dad, who decided to tag along. Oh, it has 510 or so ludicrous horsepower. It is stupid, stupid fast. It corners like a champ, belying its 1940kg curb weight. It will not, for any reason, understeer, even on ice, and it has room for more than we need, with kids at 7,9 and 10.

Love the car.

 

[Rector]

Big caveat: Norway. EV cars cost about 65% of their ICE equivalents due to taxation. Superchargers and other charging stations are all over the place for that reason. Plus, "green" electricity is really cheap. Mostly.

My old '10 X5 diesel's transmission failed spectacularly after being bludgeoned to pieces by the mid axle(that' s approximately what the mechanic said) two weeks ago. All in good fun. We'd discussed, previously, several times just cutting our losses and getting some sort of EV, but living in BFE, or rural Norway, we were sceptics.

When the X5 crapped out on us, it was sort of liberating. My gen surg buddy has been on my back for a long time to make the move, ended up buying a tesla y. While it looks like an obese 3,the 3 is pretty good looking, and I've never been a hater of chunk.

Onwards. Hopped on a plane to pick it up, proceeded to drive 1500km to get it home.

Outcome: a lot better than feared, not any worse than I dared hope. Sure, I could make that drive in the beemer on one and a half tanks of diesel, but I spent the total of four charges watching F1 docus on netflix, the latter three with my dad, who decided to tag along. Oh, it has 510 or so ludicrous horsepower. It is stupid, stupid fast. It corners like a champ, belying its 1940kg curb weight. It will not, for any reason, understeer, even on ice, and it has room for more than we need, with kids at 7,9 and 10.

Love the car.

So very true. I bought a Taycan last summer and love that thing like one of my children. It is fast fast fast (and the problem is that it is easy not to recognize just how fast you're going, if you're not careful). In warm weather with the extended battery size, I can get maybe 300 miles on a charge on a road trip. I've made a few of them now, and yeah, you do need to plan a (very little) bit in advance, but the car's navigation system will identify rapid charging stations for you en route. And since Porsche is part of the VW Group, you have access to Electrify America (EA), which is not as big as Tesla's network but still pretty widespread. And because EA sets up a lot of charging stations at Walmarts, there are plenty of places to stop along most routes here in the southeast.

I need to get a snack and take a leak every 200 miles or so anyways.

And during my regular work life, I maybe charge my car in my garage once a week or so, just to keep it topped off. I do not miss the gas station.

We bought a used BMW i3 a couple of years ago. It is decidedly a short-range vehicle, and my wife and I use it only for commuting and errands in town. But the funny thing is that, even though it has the aerodynamic properties of a brick, it too is very fast and pretty fun to drive.

 

[linkin06]

Racing the World's Fastest Sedans: Tesla Plaid, Lucid Air, E39 M5​

 

[Neopolymath]

Racing the World's Fastest Sedans: Tesla Plaid, Lucid Air, E39 M5​

I will never sell my e39 m5 or e46 m3 even if they are slow these days.

 

[norski]

I will never sell my e39 m5 or e46 m3 even if they are slow these days.

Never did drive the e39 m5, but the e46 m3 was the first fast car I ever drove. Hilarious!

 

[MirrorTodd]

It takes you 30 seconds to plug in your phone too? And don't forget maintainence in your car too. Oil changes, spark plugs etc. And pulling into the gas station and pulling out.

Real g's never pull out.

 

[GassYous]

Real g's never pull out.

That's how you end up with a lot of little g's

 

[lane]

I will never sell my e39 m5 or e46 m3 even if they are slow these days.

That’s how I feel about my GT3. No EV will ever touch the sound of 9k RPM, even if it’s faster in a straight line

 

[pgg]

I will never sell my e39 m5 or e46 m3 even if they are slow these days.

I've had an E46 M3 as my daily driver since May of 2002. Almost exactly twenty years ... minus part of a year between the time I crashed my first one and bought my second one.

 

[emergentmd]

Bought an X5 soon after coming out in 2001, now have a Model Y long range. It will not surprise you that the Model Y in 2020 was the same price as the X5 in 2001, makes the X5 feel like a corolla, and saves me about $4000/yr in gas. I have saved about 10K in 2 yrs on gas, brakes, oil change. Plus my resale value on the car is about 50K and I paid 53K out the door for it.

What will surprise you is that the Model Y feels much roomier and has more cargo space while looking smaller from the outside.

People who have never owned an electric car will never understand the inconvenience of stopping to pour gas, changing oil, changing brakes, belts, and recommended maintenance. My Model Y maintenance schedule is essentially when you need something fixed.

It literally takes me 5 secs to plug my car in when I come home., have spent a total of 1 hr at superchargers in 2 yrs for 3 stops. I literally spend more time taking my shoes off in the garage than plugging the car in and most people remove their shoes as a reflex without ever thinking about it.

 

[Mad Jack]

I will drive IC engine cars for the next several years. But, I assume Lexus and others will force me to buy an EV in 2-3 years if I want to buy their latest model car/SUV.

I hope that other manufacturers continue to make IC engine cars for the next decade in the USA so the consumer has a choice in our country.

The infrastructure just isn't there for everyone to own an EV in the next few years. My apartment complex has one EV charging station for the entire complex of just shy of 200 units, for instance. My hospital has zero electric chargers because of a contract issue with the company that set up the stations, an ongoing issue for over 2 years. If I wanted an EV, I would have to charge it at a charging station two times per week, given how much I drive, which would be a real pain and huge waste of time.

Another major issue is parts when anything goes wrong, at least so far as the Tesla crowd is concerned. I've known two people that had minor accidents which needed around 6 months for replacement parts due to a lack of availability. That's just untenable for repairs.

 

[PikminOC]

The infrastructure just isn't there for everyone to own an EV in the next few years. My apartment complex has one EV charging station for the entire complex of just shy of 200 units, for instance. My hospital has zero electric chargers because of a contract issue with the company that set up the stations, an ongoing issue for over 2 years. If I wanted an EV, I would have to charge it at a charging station two times per week, given how much I drive, which would be a real pain and huge waste of time.

Another major issue is parts when anything goes wrong, at least so far as the Tesla crowd is concerned. I've known two people that had minor accidents which needed around 6 months for replacement parts due to a lack of availability. That's just untenable for repairs.

Parts for every EV is like this.

 

[PikminOC]

The infrastructure just isn't there for everyone to own an EV in the next few years. My apartment complex has one EV charging station for the entire complex of just shy of 200 units, for instance. My hospital has zero electric chargers because of a contract issue with the company that set up the stations, an ongoing issue for over 2 years. If I wanted an EV, I would have to charge it at a charging station two times per week, given how much I drive, which would be a real pain and huge waste of time.

Another major issue is parts when anything goes wrong, at least so far as the Tesla crowd is concerned. I've known two people that had minor accidents which needed around 6 months for replacement parts due to a lack of availability. That's just untenable for repairs.

Not sure this will ever be fixed. Time to move to a house Dr.

 

[nimbus]

The infrastructure just isn't there for everyone to own an EV in the next few years. My apartment complex has one EV charging station for the entire complex of just shy of 200 units, for instance. My hospital has zero electric chargers because of a contract issue with the company that set up the stations, an ongoing issue for over 2 years. If I wanted an EV, I would have to charge it at a charging station two times per week, given how much I drive, which would be a real pain and huge waste of time.

Another major issue is parts when anything goes wrong, at least so far as the Tesla crowd is concerned. I've known two people that had minor accidents which needed around 6 months for replacement parts due to a lack of availability. That's just untenable for repairs.

Parts shortage is not just Tesla. My nephew had the tailgate of his Toyota Tacoma stolen. It took him 8 months to get a replacement.

 

[nimbus]

Interesting listen….

In the 1890s, the Best-Selling Car Was … Electric - Freakonomics

In the 1890s, the Best-Selling Car Was … Electric - Freakonomics

freakonomics.com

 

[Mad Jack]

Not sure this will ever be fixed. Time to move to a house Dr.

That's the plan once I am done with fellowship and the housing market cools

 

[Mad Jack]

Parts shortage is not just Tesla. My nephew had the tailgate of his Toyota Tacoma stolen. It took him 8 months to get a replacement.

Crazy. I needed a new UConnect unit and was able to get it in a week, was expecting it to take far longer given the chip shortage. Then again, I drive a Challenger and they've been selling them for almost 15 years at this point, so parts for almost anything are basically everywhere

 

[PikminOC]

Lots of shortages for lots of things. Supply chain and all.

 

[emergentmd]

Another major issue is parts when anything goes wrong, at least so far as the Tesla crowd is concerned. I've known two people that had minor accidents which needed around 6 months for replacement parts due to a lack of availability. That's just untenable for repairs.

I live in Austin and atleast for this area parts/service has never been an issue. I have taken my car in for minor issues and they always had parts. Had a few fender benders requiring the whole back and front replaced and there was never a delay.

I have a friend whose ICE car windshield was broken by a bird and can not find a replacement for the past 3 months anywhere. They told her they have no idea when it will be available and she can't go 3rd party b/c of the OEM windshield sensors.

 

[pmichaelmd]

Am a car person and am ALMOST ready to embrace full EVs except for the lack of infrastructure for everything except Tesla. I decided to go a different route last year and bought the longest range PHEV made, the Karma Revero GT, which used to be Fisker. 60-80 miles of pure electric range plus an added 280 miles from the BMW i8 engine which acts as a generator when selected.
No, it isn't quite as fast as a Tesla or a Taycan, but it looks like nothing else on the road. It may get more attention than I would like, but I have always liked the shape and can make longer drives if needed with the security of stopping at a gas station to fill the 10 gallon tank and be on my way as that keeps the battery powered. If Electrify America, or any of the others, gets serious about building infrastructure, we will be in business.
Until then, I have trouble with how longer travel will go and here is a clip of what I suspect many will experience:



So far, have to say I love my Karma.

PMMD

 

[GassYous]

Am a car person and am ALMOST ready to embrace full EVs except for the lack of infrastructure for everything except Tesla. I decided to go a different route last year and bought the longest range PHEV made, the Karma Revero GT, which used to be Fisker. 60-80 miles of pure electric range plus an added 280 miles from the BMW i8 engine which acts as a generator when selected.
No, it isn't quite as fast as a Tesla or a Taycan, but it looks like nothing else on the road. It may get more attention than I would like, but I have always liked the shape and can make longer drives if needed with the security of stopping at a gas station to fill the 10 gallon tank and be on my way as that keeps the battery powered. If Electrify America, or any of the others, gets serious about building infrastructure, we will be in business.
Until then, I have trouble with how longer travel will go and here is a clip of what I suspect many will experience:



So far, have to say I love my Karma.

PMMD

Looks awesome

 

[nimbus]

California Reveals Its Plan to Phase Out New Gas-Powered Cars by 2035

“Under the proposed rule, issued by the California Air Resources Board, the state will require 35 percent of new passenger vehicles sold in the state by 2026 to be powered by batteries or hydrogen. Less than a decade later, the state expects 100 percent of all new car sales to be free of the fossil fuel emissions chiefly responsible for warming the planet.
It would mark a big leap. Currently, 12.4 percent of new vehicles sold in California are zero-emissions, according to the board.”