All passes, bottom half of class, high step 1, hypothetical

[abcxyz0123]

Say I do everything correct (research, LORs, become good with my home derm dept, 240+ step 1, good 3rd year grades) but only "pass" (and barely pass at that) all my classes during my first 2 years. Is it possible for a person like this to still match derm?

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[NPR]

Say I do everything correct (research, LORs, become good with my home derm dept, 240+ step 1, good 3rd year grades) but only "pass" (and barely pass at that) all my classes during my first 2 years. Is it possible for a person like this to still match derm?

Possible? Yes. Probable? No.

2 reasons

1. You do not go from barely passing your 1st 2 years and being at the bottom of your class to magically slapping on meaningful research, glowing LORs, tight connections in the derm department, stellar Step 1 scores, and good 3rd year grades onto your application. Sounds like a Disney movie.

2. But let's say it happens. Why wouldn't they go ahead and pick the person next to you? He/she happens to have the exact same positives as well as a scintillating 1st 2 years. Why would they roll the dice with you?

 

[Long Dong]

Well if you do the math and look at the stats those with step 1 in the 240-250 range 28 people out of 93 didn't match for rate of 30% going unmatched. Even those with 260+ ~18% of them go unmatched, purely looking at the numbers.

 

[abcxyz0123]

Long Dong,

Just FYI, I am a big fan of your posts, and think u are cool as hell (no homo). I was just wondering though...I remember in one of your posts, you said that because UCLA was p/f, you just studied hard enough to pass your classes, and I think you also said that you scored just about avg in all your classes (correct me if i am wrong). I know you had an amazing step 1 score, but did any interviewers comment on your class rank? Do you think that as long as I stay within the class avg (instead of barely passing), I will be decently OK for derm, as long as everything else is solid? I guess this is a repeat of my question, but changing it from "bottom half of class" to passing everything and being just above average.

 

[NPR]

Do you think that as long as I stay within the class avg (instead of barely passing), I will be decently OK for derm, as long as everything else is solid?

You figure if you keep asking the outlook will keep getting brighter huh?

If you are barely passing, you are in bad shape.

If you are within the class average, you are in bad shape.

Derm takes the best of the best. Translation--->way above average

Are there outliers? Of course. But IMO you are NOT decently OK if you are just average at your own school

 

[Long Dong]

Long Dong,

Just FYI, I am a big fan of your posts, and think u are cool as hell (no homo). I was just wondering though...I remember in one of your posts, you said that because UCLA was p/f, you just studied hard enough to pass your classes, and I think you also said that you scored just about avg in all your classes (correct me if i am wrong). I know you had an amazing step 1 score, but did any interviewers comment on your class rank? Do you think that as long as I stay within the class avg (instead of barely passing), I will be decently OK for derm, as long as everything else is solid? I guess this is a repeat of my question, but changing it from "bottom half of class" to passing everything and being just above average.

Yes in the first 2 years I scored just above the class average on exams, but ucla is Pass/Fail and they don't keep track of class rank or divulge class rank in the dean's letter technically. UCLA did keep track of the number 1 and 2 person and made them junior aoa in 3rd year. I don't know how it is at your school if you are just passing or scoring average this might come up in you deans letter and hurt you. I knew going in that my school doesn't state anything about rank just aoa or not. But 3rd year evals is a different story and mattered more, if you get comments stating you're just average or barely passing you'll be in bad shape. You're going to need to turn it up because those 3rd year evals can make or brake you.

 

[MOHS_01]

First and foremost -- there is absolutely zero harm in trying. Throw your name in the hat.

Second -- listen to LD. If your subjective evals suck, you have a problem.

Best of luck.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Say I do everything correct (research, LORs, become good with my home derm dept, 240+ step 1, good 3rd year grades) but only "pass" (and barely pass at that) all my classes during my first 2 years. Is it possible for a person like this to still match derm?

What will your transcript say? What will your MSPE say?

Will it say either PASS or FAIL with no ranking?
Or do you have H/HP/P/F during the first 2 years with class ranking?

The answer to your question entirely depends on what programs will actually know about your performance.

 

[abcxyz0123]

Our school has an H/P/F system, but they claim that they do not rank or show the rank of their students. But I always thought that where you stand in your class is generally divulged at some point, like in the dean's letter.

 

[Long Dong]

Our school has an H/P/F system, but they claim that they do not rank or show the rank of their students. But I always thought that where you stand in your class is generally divulged at some point, like in the dean's letter.

Some schools, so I've heard, use coded wording where outstanding is seen as better then excellent or so forth. Here are some quotes on how the ucla system has been described:

"ucla's deans letters do not distinguish students from each other very well. it is my understanding they don't use code language like outstanding vs. excellent vs. very good. also, they have "letters of distinction" instead of honors, and the deans letter does not say what percent of students got the letter of distinction in a particular rotation. thus, it may sound really impressive that you got a letter of distinction, but it may be that 90% of students got it (or it may be that only 10% got it). "

"i agree that clinical grades and dean's letters are bs. however, the way ucla does it puts their students at an advantage compared to students at other schools, because ucla's students don't directly compete with each other as they do at other schools. for example, an applicant from a school who was deemed to be "excellent" vs. an applicant at a school who was deemed to be "outstanding" would have been seen as a worse candidate (even though we know this is probably not true). or an applicant from a school who didn't receive honors when 25% of the class did would have looked worse than an applicant who did receive honors. it is harder to distinguish applicants when reading ucla's deans letters, so the "worst" applicants don't get weeded out as easily as they do at other schools."