All this talk of reforms, how much are incomes really going to be cut?

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Primary care pay goes up a little? How much does specialty pay come down? Huge difference between making 280k instead of 320k vs. 200k instead of 320.

Any rough ideas/estimates?

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No one knows and this should be one of your last concerns right now. Also, threads like these just lead to dooms day speculations and arguments with minimal evidence to support them. No one can tell the future.
 
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If you go into medicine for the money and have no business/financial savvy you won't do well financially.

You don't become wealthy from your physician's salary anymore. It's how you invest your money

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If you go into medicine for the money and have no business/financial savvy you won't do well financially.

You don't become wealthy from your physician's salary anymore. It's how you invest your money

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Doesn't this go without saying?

You don't become wealthy from Lebron James salary either if you invest in cars, houses, and diamonds. How you invest matters, regardless if you bring in 40k or 40M.

Bottom line, becoming a doctor puts you in line to earn a top 3% yearly income, and a great shot at hitting the top 1% mark. I don't know what you all consider wealthy, but earning in the top 1-3% seems like it should qualify as wealthy...no?
 
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Doesn't this go without saying?

You don't become wealthy from Lebron James salary either if you invest in cars, houses, and diamonds. How you invest matters, regardless if you bring in 40k or 40M.

Bottom line, becoming a doctor puts you in line to earn a top 3% yearly income, and a great shot at hitting the top 1% mark. I don't know what you all consider wealthy, but earning in the top 1-3% seems like it should qualify as wealthy...no?

Not at all. I agree on the lebron point but there are way too many doctors that are no where near wealthy because they go 7+ years after college not making real money, no focus on savings and then get an attending paycheck, they don't pay themselves first and splurge.

Im just saying it's all about priorities and you definitely can be wealthy as a physician but making 300k =\= wealthy.

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Im just saying it's all about priorities and you definitely can be wealthy as a physician but making 300k =\= wealthy.

No wonder people hate doctors.
 
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Not at all. I agree on the lebron point but there are way too many doctors that are no where near wealthy because they go 7+ years after college not making real money, no focus on savings and then get an attending paycheck, they don't pay themselves first and splurge.

Im just saying it's all about priorities and you definitely can be wealthy as a physician but making 300k =\= wealthy.

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It's all subjective. 300k a year may not be wealthy to you, but considered wealthy by someone else.

I think the best way to put this is; being a doctor will put in you in position to be a top 3% earner in the United States. Whether or not you consider earning more than the other 97-99% wealthy or not..well that's just personal.

I think what a lot of undergrads fail to realize though, becoming a doctor is the surest way to earning a substantial amount of money; i.e. more than about 295 million other Americans. Climbing the corporate ladder is a complete roll of the dice. For every corporate bigwig there are 10,000 cubicle farmer's who would be estatic to make 100k a year.
 
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Primary care pay goes up a little? How much does specialty pay come down? Huge difference between making 280k instead of 320k vs. 200k instead of 320.

Any rough ideas/estimates?

The honest answer is that it's too hard to say. Reimbursements are changing, physician practice settings are changing (more being a part of big groups rather than individual practice), and the insured population is changing (influx of newly insured, etc). On top of this, entire new payment schemes are being experimented with, such as batch payments where physicians are given a set amount to manage a pool of patients and they must utilize tests/personal as they see fit within that budget. There's a lot of change going on in health economics at the moment, and any attempt at giving a genuine estimate of specific salary changes would require more than a grain of salt.
 
It's all subjective. 300k a year may not be wealthy to you, but considered wealthy by someone else.

I think the best way to put this is; being a doctor will put in you in position to be a top 3% earner in the United States. Whether or not you consider earning more than the other 97-99% wealthy or not..well that's just personal.

I think what a lot of undergrads fail to realize though, becoming a doctor is the surest way to earning a substantial amount of money; i.e. more than about 295 million other Americans. Climbing the corporate ladder is a complete roll of the dice. For every corporate bigwig there are 10,000 cubicle farmer's who would be estatic to make 100k a year.

I totally agree with everything you're saying.

My point is income isn't wealth. If you make 300k a year and blow it on 100k cars and rent out 10k a month condos and live that lifestyle - that's not wealth.

A great book I read about wealth vs. Income is millionaire next door. Great read for anyone interested in finances and whatnot.



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I totally agree with everything you're saying.

My point is income isn't wealth. If you make 300k a year and blow it on 100k cars and rent out 10k a month condos and live that lifestyle - that's not wealth.

A great book I read about wealth vs. Income is millionaire next door. Great read for anyone interested in finances and whatnot.



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Simple living. That's how I do myself...if more people learned to appreciate a minimalistic way of living, things would be much better in this country.

Ill check that book out.
 
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Not at all. I agree on the lebron point but there are way too many doctors that are no where near wealthy because they go 7+ years after college not making real money, no focus on savings and then get an attending paycheck, they don't pay themselves first and splurge.

Im just saying it's all about priorities and you definitely can be wealthy as a physician but making 300k =\= wealthy.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

What is your definition of wealthy? Eating caviar for breakfast and getting diamond studded teeth?

I'm now curious on what people's individual definitions of "wealthy" when they say they can't be wealthy on a physician's salary. If people had dreams of buying multiple luxury cars and gigantic houses then no wonder there's been a lot of disappointment.
 
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What is your definition of wealthy? Eating caviar for breakfast and getting diamond studded teeth?

I'm now curious on what people's individual definitions of "wealthy" when they say they can't be wealthy on a physician's salary. If people had dreams of buying multiple luxury cars and gigantic houses then no wonder there's been a lot of disappointment.

I think people are misinterpreting what I'm saying.

I am def NOT saying you cannot be wealthy on that salary. I'm saying that WEALTH does not mean the same thing as INCOME.

You for sure can be wealthy on that income - but a person making 50k can also be much more wealthy 15-20 years down the road than the 300k guy depending on how people manage their money.

And my idea of wealth is opposite of eating caviar and having luxury cars. That is my point. Wealth is paying yourself first (with retirement, investments, real estate, etc.) rather than living a lavish lifestyle - no matter how much money you make each year.
 
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I read a sobering article yesterday about the almost sudden changes in the fields of radiology and anesthesiology. They took something around a ~3% pay cut while inflation was 1-2%. It's quite dramatic. Imagine someone making 50K a year taking a 3% pay cut ($1,500) or roughly a months rent/mortgage.

It just confirms the idea that you should pick your specialty based on passion. Don't pick a specialty based on earning potential because that could and most likely will change in the next decade.
 
Not at all. I agree on the lebron point but there are way too many doctors that are no where near wealthy because they go 7+ years after college not making real money, no focus on savings and then get an attending paycheck, they don't pay themselves first and splurge.

Im just saying it's all about priorities and you definitely can be wealthy as a physician but making 300k =\= wealthy.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
You're still making more than you would in any other field (relative odds).
 
You're still making more than you would in any other field (relative odds).

Come on people... I never said you wouldn't be making more than most other fields. I know that is true. I'm saying SALARY does not equal WEALTH.
That's all I'm saying. Not sure why that is such a hard concept to some.
 
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I think people are misinterpreting what I'm saying.

I am def NOT saying you cannot be wealthy on that salary. I'm saying that WEALTH does not mean the same thing as INCOME.

You for sure can be wealthy on that income - but a person making 50k can also be much more wealthy 15-20 years down the road than the 300k guy depending on how people manage their money.

And my idea of wealth is opposite of eating caviar and having luxury cars. That is my point. Wealth is paying yourself first (with retirement, investments, real estate, etc.) rather than living a lavish lifestyle - no matter how much money you make each year.
Balance is key. What's the point in investing heavily for when you're 65 rather than enjoying it in your 30s and 40s (the latter stage of prime time living, with 20s being the true prime).

Also what's the reason for the hate on living a lavish lifestyle (driving a ferrari, 5 star vacation, etc.)? The obvious answer is jealousy from those who cannot afford it (most people). But people like to use nonsense reasons to justify why living a lavish lifestyle isn't a good idea :rolleyes: .
Most people require an x amount of money to be happy and satisfied with their everyday living. But is having general satisfaction going to mean you get the most out of your life time? Probably not.
 
All of this "how you spend your money" stuff is somewhat irrelevant. This happens in every career across the board. Live lavishly, live modestly, or live like a pauper and invest everything. I think the real question, is that with the cuts in pay coupled with the increase in medical school tuition (and crappier loan terms), it equals a very real problem. $250k/year sounds great, but after taxes and after a $3k-5k per month student loan payment, you're left with not much more than $100k per year. I mean, that's great and all, but plenty of people clear $100k per year with much, much less schooling and training.

Point being, you shouldn't make the determination to go into medicine (or a particular specialty) because of the money. My husband is leaving a $100k+/year job so we (I) can go to medical school. For us, it's not the money.....but you do have look at the bigger picture and figure out whether it's worth it or not.
 
Come on people... I never said you wouldn't be making more than most other fields. I know that is true. I'm saying SALARY does not equal WEALTH.
That's all I'm saying. Not sure why that is such a hard concept to some.
Well in absolute terms it doesn't, you're correct. But the vast majority of the time... higher income = more wealth.
Most people don't just stumble across money and decide to snort it all up their nose. They will spend it wisely.
 
It's all subjective. 300k a year may not be wealthy to you, but considered wealthy by someone else.

I think the best way to put this is; being a doctor will put in you in position to be a top 3% earner in the United States. Whether or not you consider earning more than the other 97-99% wealthy or not..well that's just personal.

I think what a lot of undergrads fail to realize though, becoming a doctor is the surest way to earning a substantial amount of money; i.e. more than about 295 million other Americans. Climbing the corporate ladder is a complete roll of the dice. For every corporate bigwig there are 10,000 cubicle farmer's who would be estatic to make 100k a year.
I agree with all of this. "Being wealthy is being richer than your brother-in-law." If you end up making a big salary, chances are you'll be around those who also make a big salary. You'll move into a neighborhood of people making the same salary, and you'll work with those making the same salary. Once basic needs are met, happiness contingent upon wealth is entirely based upon comparisons to other people. If you live in a middle class neighborhood, you'll never feel bad that you don't have a yacht. Live in a gated community? You might be a little dissatisfied with your 300K/year. My grandpa always said it's better to be the wealthiest man in a poor neighborhood than the poorest man in a rich neighborhood. The moral is, do something that will make you happy for the 9-10 hours you're at work, and make sure everyone around you is poorer than you at home, or something like that...:p

As far as the rolls of the dice, getting a top income can be accomplished one of a few ways in a couple of industries. This list is a good start of reasonably possible ways to earn big money (200K+), but is far from exhaustive.

1) Get into sales, work very hard and long hours (many clients), work up the chain and make tons off of commission, selling only premium items.
2) Get into finance at big name companies. Be forced to work very hard and long hours.
3) Get a professional degree (med/law/dental/etc) and join a practice/firm, or find a big name corporate entity willing to pay big bucks.
4) Get a job in petroleum engineering. These guys, particularly the drill managers, make upwards of 300K per year.
5) Join a company and work your way up the corporate ladder with "vacuum" leadership. Apply to any position above yours that opens, regardless of your interest in it.
6) Start your own business, preferably one that requires little investment and immediate returns (e.g. software, simple commodities, etc...)

Not included are the unreasonably possible, such as making it in acting, art, sports, etc... Of these, the most sure are medical/dental and law/finance. They require "initiation" into their world so-to-speak, and after attaining acceptance into that world (med school/dental school or top law firms/top financial companies) you obtain access to those salaries. The rest require full commitment as a career for many years. None ensure that you will be unbelievably wealthy, rather, each ensures that you will have the income necessary to be very wealthy if you invest your money well. If you make an extra 10K/year in investments beyond your expected gains and budget you can do something additional every year such as get an addition on your house, take an expensive trip, buy a much nicer car than you would have otherwise, etc...
 
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What is your definition of wealthy? Eating caviar for breakfast and getting diamond studded teeth?

I'm now curious on what people's individual definitions of "wealthy" when they say they can't be wealthy on a physician's salary. If people had dreams of buying multiple luxury cars and gigantic houses then no wonder there's been a lot of disappointment.


My definition of wealth would be this: having sufficient savings to support an 'upper middle class' lifestyle (100-200K/year after tax spending money, exact amount depending on region) based on your passive income. So 3-5 million in the bank. The income is a path to wealth but is not wealth in and of itself. By that definition very few doctors will ever be wealthy during their working life.

However that's very conservative definition and would really only define old people as wealthy. A more liberal definition might be: able to support an upper middle class lifestyle (100-200K/year after tax spending money, exact amount depending on region) while also saving enough that you can continue to support the same lifestyle at 65 without working, assuming a historical 7% after inflation rate of portfolio growth and the continued existence of social security. By that definition a doctor making 300K may or may not be wealthy, depending on his/her region, student loan burden, and age.

I admit broad regional difference in what is considered wealthy, but I do consider living in ultra high income micoeconomies to be a luxury item. You are allowed to say that you need 200K/year to be upper middle class in the DC area or New York. You are not allowed to say you need 2 million/year to be upper middle class to be middle class in Georgetown or Manhattan. You can live in other parts of the same region without sacrificing your career opportunities/regional ties/family responsibilities.

The key thing about wealth is that it depends not just on your income, but also your taxes, debts/savings, region, and age. Most physicians start their careers at 30 (27 counting residency), with several hundred thousand of high interest debt, a high tax burden, and no savings. So a 300K income that would certainly be wealthy if you started earning it at 23 with no debt might merely be middle class if you need to sacrifice 500K of post-tax income to your loans and to put 20% of your post tax income into a retirement account rather than the 23 year old's 10%. And what's middle class in the DC area might be wealthy in North Dakota.

Which is not to say that a physician making 300K is not doing very well, just that they don't all meet my definition of being a classic rich guy. Quite a few do, but not all of them.
 
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Primary care pay goes up a little? How much does specialty pay come down? Huge difference between making 280k instead of 320k vs. 200k instead of 320.

Any rough ideas/estimates?

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Count on it, dude.
 
I second the recommendation for the millionaire next door
 
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