Am I missing something or can the average US MD student become a plastic surgeon without much difficulty?

[brycew85]

Was talking to my cousin who is currently an MS4 applying for plastics and stressing out. I remembered from back when I was a med student you could also get plastics through the independent match after gen surg but this was being “phased out,” looked it up and it’s the same number spots as it was 6 years ago and the match rate is a steady 80%.

So to me, an average US MD student (median grades, 230/240 step1/2) can safely get a university program gen surg spot and then apply to plastics after that. Also that 80% match rate in independent plastics includes DOs and FMGs/IMGs and people at community programs so a US MD from a university program should do better than 80%

of course going through all that training is another matter altogether but as far as getting a spot it doesn’t seem as daunting as say, ortho or derm. Or am I missing something?

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[softball2344]

academic gen surg is pretty competitive

edit: with all the new schools opening academic anything is getting pretty competitive honestly (peds is probably the exception)

 

[Goro]

You are definitely missing something, OP.

 

[slowthai]

@OnePunchBiopsy

 

[brycew85]

Exactly, specialties are tiered based on competitiveness:

High: Surgical Subspecialties, Derm, Ophtho, Top programs for Mid-tier specialties.

Middle: Radiology, Academic Anesthesiology, EM, OBGYN, Academic IM, Academic Gen Surg, Top programs for Low-competitiveness specialties. Attainable for all average/above average MD grads.

Lowest competitiveness: Psychiatry, Neurology, Pediatrics, PMR, Community IM/Gen Surg, FM, Path

Right....so the average MD student can get academic gen surg
And then have a >80% of getting a plastics fellowship

You are definitely missing something, OP.

which is....?

 

[longhaul3]

I believe the independent pathway is gradually being phased out in favor of the integrated pathway. I'm pretty sure the number of independent (i.e. 5+2) spots is decreasing and integrated plastics is the future.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Was talking to my cousin who is currently an MS4 applying for plastics and stressing out. I remembered from back when I was a med student you could also get plastics through the independent match after gen surg but this was being “phased out,” looked it up and it’s the same number spots as it was 6 years ago and the match rate is a steady 80%.

So to me, an average US MD student (median grades, 230/240 step1/2) can safely get a university program gen surg spot and then apply to plastics after that. Also that 80% match rate in independent plastics includes DOs and FMGs/IMGs and people at community programs so a US MD from a university program should do better than 80%

of course going through all that training is another matter altogether but as far as getting a spot it doesn’t seem as daunting as say, ortho or derm. Or am I missing something?

Plastics is in the SF Match. Hunting around I don't see the 5+2 data -- but I easily could have missed it.

In any case, a "match" rate of 80% means that 80% of people who get an interview get a spot -- not an 80% chance of getting a spot. Unless the data you're looking at includes the number of applicants.

 

[aldol16]

Remember that there's a huge amount of selection before med students even apply for the match. For instance, those who wanted plastics may have selected out due to low scores, perceived low research, etc.

 

[Banco]

Though plastics after gen surgery is not a super competitive fellowship match, surgery at big academic centers is certainly not easy to get with average, especially this year - lots people with 260s are getting blocked out of the higher prestige programs (not that you need a high prestige program per se).

 

[MediCane2006]

Even the independent pathway isn’t “easy” though. Remember that you are talking about a 3 year fellowship tacked onto a 5-7 year general surgery training program. So that group of applicants tends to be folks with very high interest in the field - research, high inservice scores, etc - and even THEN it’s only an 80 percent match rate.

 

[FindersFee5]

Even the independent pathway isn’t “easy” though. Remember that you are talking about a 3 year fellowship tacked onto a 5-7 year general surgery training program. So that group of applicants tends to be folks with very high interest in the field - research, high inservice scores, etc - and even THEN it’s only an 80 percent match rate.

The independent pathway is also almost always going to be a 10 year commitment, because from what I've heard it's pretty difficult to match without the built in 2 research years. Then add any plastics fellowships you want to do on top of that. Also as others have said, the independent pathway is starting to get phased out, so there's no guarantee you get plastics even after 7 years of gen-surg.

 

[Goro]

So, in other words, OP, what you are missing is that going for Plastics is like trying to play for the KC Chiefs or LA Lakers.

 

[Eye-eye]

You realize that average is not 230/240 step 1 and average grades for a lot of schools are mostly passes and maybe a hp or honors, right? Average med student =/= average applicant to a competitive specialty. The match rates are basically only for those who thought they had a chance at matching, too, as others have pointed out.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

What you’re missing is you have to be a good resident to be able to apply to plastics. You need good ABSITE scores, publications, etc.

The 80% match rate is for applicants who have their ducks all in a row.

It’s not peds or surg onc level competitiveness, but it’s definitely not trauma either.

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

It’s hard trying to figure out the best path to your desired specialty.

I’m gen surg pursuing plastics, but I also didn’t know I wanted to do plastics until the middle/end of my PGY-2 year. I also love general surgery.

If you are an MS4 who really wants to do plastics, if Step 1 is not a major issue, I really think it’s better to take more time for research and try your hardest with the integrated match. This is especially a better route if you don’t care for general surgery.

If you are a general surgery resident pursuing the independent match, there will likely always be programs offering fellowship spots; the independent match isn’t going away anytime soon. The trick is to get to know your program’s plastics attendings and build enough of a relationship that they will step up to bat for you. Also, you’ll need some publications and have to perform well enough on the ABSITE (the annual general surgery in service exam). Those are really the keys to success that I’ve heard of. Applying to the independent match later this year so we’ll see how this information stacks up.

 

[guytakingboards]

I dunno, when i was a general surgery intern at an academic surgery program it seemed kinda tough end up in plastics, for several of the reasons mentioned above.

Additionally though, plastics wasn't even a scheduled rotation in the PGY2-PGY5 years. Anyone who even considered plastics would have had to set up all their research independently and make their own connections to the home department plastics faculty because they had no exposure otherwise. Not to mention all of their other faculty aren't going to be promoting going into plastics.

From what i recall, that academic surgery program put someone into plastics maybe every 3-4 years while they put 1-2 people into peds every year.

 

[meghaman]

Def not 80%. Two years ago there were approximately 107 applicants, only 88 applicants that received interviews/were ranked, 80% of those RANKED matched. There are around 60 spots, so the match rate is actually closer to 56% for "all-comer" applicants.

If someone gets a single interview, then that person enters the 80% pool, assuming one will be ranked at that interview.

A lot of general surgery applicants do two years of research, especially those that go to academic institutions. So yes, it could be a 10 year endeavor.