Amazon Pharmacy is Official

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www.cnbc.com

Amazon jumps into the pharmacy business with online prescription fulfillment, free delivery for Prime members

Amazon has been quietly building out its pharmacy offering for several years after ramping up internal discussions in 2017 and acquiring PillPack in 2018.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com

Pre-pharms take note.
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Anything to hasten the decline~
 
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i can already see pharmacy schools preparing to use this as a talking point for new opportunities for pharmacists to play a more active role in patient care and less dispensing.
 
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CVS and WBA stocks taking a dump
 
Well. Looks like pharmacy labor demand will be optimized and efficient in the near future. It's the survival of the fittest. May the odds ever be in our favor.
 
Personally I liked playing Rogue in the ToM remake spamming Grumpkin when possible, Ninja Master in the original
 
Don't worry people, decline in retail jobs will be offset by growth in mail order jobs!
 
Is this really a game changer? The field is already dead.

I am curious what type of salary Amazon is offering. So if you work for them, please share your experience.
 
wow so everyone under 50 is gonna get their birth control and ssri from amazon cool.
 
M0df said:
Is this really a game changer? The field is already dead.

I am curious what type of salary Amazon is offering. So if you work for them, please share your experience.
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You can get paid a lot. They offer their engineers 200-250k total comp base+bonus+stock. They also get over worked like crazy though. Not sure if they would do something similar for pharmacists.
 
" Amazon’s Parker said the company does not currently have any brick-and-mortar pharmacies, and declined to speculate on future product offerings. But in future, the company could add pharmacies to Whole Foods and its chain of Amazon Fresh stores. "

This is interesting. Maybe they can use whole foods as a hub for people that would rather walk in to a pharmacy. This could be great for amazon. I see lots of possibility. I regret not buying stock in march.
 
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Not game changer for pharmacy. But it's a kick in the nuts for competitors. Amazon can operate in 1-2% profit margin forever just fine.
 
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chase88 said:
Amazon is going to use their engineers to automate the pharmacist.
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They will still need pharmacist for all the pharmacist stuff like verification, counseling etc. Question is how many?
 
Remember gaiz

Amazon taking all the easy scripts so brick and mortars will be left with trash scripts like Part B, CIIs, Medicaid
 
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grumpyRph said:
well duh. just saying, are all the diabetic grandmas really gonna use this?
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Maybe. They won't need to drive to stores. The convenience might be appealing.
 
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Well seems why we have been pushing/moving/focusing more on vaccine admin numbers in retail. I'm still interested in seeing how Amazon deals with the regulatory and customer service BS all retail pharmacies go through as well as loss/waste management
 
Luol Deng Fan said:
You can get paid a lot. They offer their engineers 200-250k total comp base+bonus+stock. They also get over worked like crazy though. Not sure if they would do something similar for pharmacists.
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They pay their software engineers that kind of money because they have to. It is a field that requires and rewards ingenuity, and there is fierce competition for the best employees.

They will pay their pharmacists much less because they can get away with it. A pharmacist is a pharmacist is a pharmacist, and there are way too many of us.

I'm curious how this new pharmacy business differs from their existing PillPack?
 
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Great news. Now I can get my meds delivered in 2 dys or prob even next day like everything else I get from Amazon. I always hate having to go to a pharmacy and wait to get meds without any extra Benefits. This is why Brick/Mortar Pharmacies will be a dying breed. No different than Circuit City and JC Penny. They add very little additional advantages over getting it from an online place unless I need something in an hour.
 
emergentmd said:
Great news. Now I can get my meds delivered in 2 dys or prob even next day like everything else I get from Amazon. I always hate having to go to a pharmacy and wait to get meds without any extra Benefits.
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Most pharmacies deliver. Even CVS will do next day through the mail.
 
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chase88 said:
The back end is easier to automate....use ndc to scan every drug and use technology to recognize and count every pill (already available).

The front end is a bit more tricky. If Amazon can automate the process, then only certain issues will go to the pharmacist to check. For example, if a doctor prescribed something as simple as Lipitor 10mg once daily and if there is no duplication, no major drug interaction then it bypass the pharmacist.

Amazon is going to face some regulatory issues with the board of pharmacy but you have to remember the bop’s mission is to protect the patients, not the pharmacists. If Amazon can show they can automate the pharmacist without comprising patient care, then it is likely the bop will approve. Amazon doesn’t even need approval from all 50 state bop. They just need one state to approve (with the promises of jobs) and they can ship medications into other states.

This doesn’t mean the need for a pharmacist wont be there but if you take away the dispensing part and the mundane checking part then the need for a pharmacist would drop dramatically.
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I know in several states that the BOP requires a pharmacy permit before prescriptions can be shipped to patients in that state. I don't know of a single state where you can get a permit then turn around and operate as a mailorder facility nationwide.
 
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So, retail has survived the onslaught of mail order pharmacies already and insurance companies continue to call the shots on where someone gets his/her meds covered. Just more BS restrictions/limitations and penny pinching labor cuts to deal with as we're already use to

I'm not really impressed by Amazon/do not buy any perishable items from them due to poor reviews (expired products, questionable storage, etc.) and most annoyingly Amazon slapping a giant barcode/label all over the product's critical information (expiration date, lot #, active/inactive ingredients, FDA label) - to the point of not being able to take off sticker or recover/be able to read any critical information about the product. Would have zero confidence in a pharmaceutical product from Amazon because of their shady practices with perishable goods

The more I've used Amazon, the more I see blatant errors (pricing, packaging options (buying multiples of 2 and the price being multiplied by 10), incorrect shipping details, questionable price changes on a very short term basis...I'm not talking like $1, more like 50% or more of the product's total cost), questionable/fake product reviews, my own reviews which are edited/removed/omitted occasionally) that are supposedly automated.

Roman empire will reach a peak eventually which is unsustainable to manage/automate before things all burn to the ground
 
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chase88 said:
Pill Pack is a pharmacy. Amazon is a giant tech company that is known the use technology to destroy industries by making things more efficient. They also have the luxury of not having make any money.

Can CVS survive without making any money? CVS is not a tech company. Even if CVS can recruit the best engineers, where are they going to get the money to take on Amazon?
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Pill pack is Amazon's mail order pharmacy.

So, again, they've been had Pill Pack, what is the difference?
 
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chase88 said:
And they do have pharmacy permits because of Pill Pack. Regulatory issues won’t stop Amazon, just like it didn’t stop Uber. Can you imagine your underfunded bop taking on Amazon?
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I think PillPack is registered in most states. The BOP will always get their permit fees for any pharmacy doing business in their state.
 
No doubt the state boards will fire up to do inspections...punish errors and failure to counsel....big fines for non-compliance....Ya know..how they kick around the peons..
 
Retail pharmacy was dying already so this doesn’t really change things as far as that goes

I’m more curious as to how Amazon will fight PBMs. Pharmacy is different from other business in a sense that you have a middle man who will heavily dictate your profit margins. Or will they try to by-pass them by negotiating directly with the distribution company? Or will they even by-pass them and just become a distributor themselves and start negotiating directly with drug companies? Will be curious to see where they will be at in 5 years.
 
Mail order has been around for what, two decades? It still hasn't stopped Walgreens, CVS, Walmart, and the rest of the brick and mortars. The only thing I would be worried about is if they vastly improve the mail order process (I hear lots of complaints about pill pack so not quite sure that's the deal) or they go after the PBMs.

Their pricing isn't all that competitive. I've looked at some of their drugs and independent pricing tables get pretty close to it. What I find fascinating is the discount card that Prime members get. If you read the terms of use, they make a big deal about government subsidized plans being prohibited from using it. That can only mean one thing: Amazon gets paid every time it's used. Pretty clever!
 
This is a strange move.. I know Bezos wants to rule this world but this is the move Amazon might end up regretting the most. Pharmacy is dying. There is not a drop of blood left to be squeezed from this bone.

It makes sense for someone like Walmart because their customers shop while getting their prescriptions filled. Makes no sense for an online retailer when even established pharmacies operating for years are trying to get away!
 
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emergentmd said:
Great news. Now I can get my meds delivered in 2 dys or prob even next day like everything else I get from Amazon. I always hate having to go to a pharmacy and wait to get meds without any extra Benefits. This is why Brick/Mortar Pharmacies will be a dying breed. No different than Circuit City and JC Penny. They add very little additional advantages over getting it from an online place unless I need something in an hour.
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You can get your meds the same way in retail, you just have to plan. People are lazy when it comes to their medication. Call ahead it will be ready for you. I can see the perceived advantages, but it's really mail order. Good luck when it doesn't arrive on time, it gets stolen out of your mail, or you believe it to be wrong. Good luck on counseling or drug interactions call Amazon their is no legal requirement for me to help non customers.
 
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M0df said:
Is this really a game changer? The field is already dead.

I am curious what type of salary Amazon is offering. So if you work for them, please share your experience.
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Friend works for them, it’s average pay. They get 1000+apps for one position.
 
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Chrish said:
This is a strange move.. I know Bezos wants to rule this world but this is the move Amazon might end up regretting the most. Pharmacy is dying. There is not a drop of blood left to be squeezed from this bone.

It makes sense for someone like Walmart because their customers shop while getting their prescriptions filled. Makes no sense for an online retailer when even established pharmacies operating for years are trying to get away!
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Yea I don't understand getting into the low margin pharmacy world, it can't be an end goal. Maybe like some previous poster said it's about rolling out a whole suite of health services or maybe it is as simple as trying to boost prime subscribers and retention.
 
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Yawn, not impressed. Amazon sucks with acquisitions. They are horrible with final mile solutions. Look at Wholes food. If they are having a hard time delivering bananas, I’m not sure how they can deliver insulin.

Plus CVS Caremark controls the PBMs which controls the wallet. Most drugs are paid out below costs now.

More competition is good. More jobs. Every time there is a merger/acquisition, we lose hundreds and thousands of pharmacy jobs.

Bezo have been doI gotta this the last few years. They mention pharmacy, buy pill pack, generic manufacture for aspirin, etc. to put pharmacies down (costs them nothing). That’s why CVS went from 120 to 50s... the last 5 years.
 
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I also want to talk about senior people hatred of computers. Their call times will be insane. Add that to the crazies andpeople who think everything is a conspiracy. Nobody will give up their profitable drugs anyway. They will probably fill tons of birth controls that are money losers.

im curious what their cash prices are though
 
I'm honestly not sure what to think of this...but I'm happy to be debt free.
 
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Amazon has the advantage of $$$, scale, distribution, and customer acquisition. The last is what is so expensive and why Amazon rules online retail. This is why Walmart hasn't made much headway. There are many companies that do two day shipping but acquiring the customer is difficult/expensive while Amazon already has the largest customer database.

I still go to B&M to get meds b/c I don't trust other online pharmacies nor do I want to go through vetting another online company. Amazon is a completely diff beast that I already buy almost everything from. Most people I know buy most of their stuff from Amazon just for the convenience.

If Amzn can produce an experience similar to what they have with other retail items, they will own the pharmacy market in less than 5 yrs. Imagine spending 30 secs to do a refill, or signing up for their monthly subscribe&save? I for one would adopt this very quickly, esp if they can get to next/same day delivery.

What pharmacies/pharmacist lack is any tangible benefit. Pharmacists and their profession in the retail market is essentially a commodity and most consumers could care less where they get their meds. Medical care is different b/c most people would stick with their doctor if they like them.
 
Farmgurl20 said:
Friend works for them, it’s average pay. They get 1000+apps for one position.
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How do they even screen that many applications, look at the first ten then ignore the rest? Imagine the hours and hours of wasted time all those 1,000 applicants put in to apply.
 
So...again....

This is basically Pill Pack, but instead of organizing your meds for you, they just put them into bottles? And apparently the Inside Rx discount card (Express Scripts subsidiary) is integrated into the online costs?

I guess people might switch just because they are in the Amazon ecosystem, but let's not pretend that Amazon is really disrupting anything here. GoodRx is essentially a discount card aggregator. Inside Rx is actually one of the payers they contract. As well as Argus, Navitus, etc. And you can look it up and see what the price is like Amazon is saying, too. In fact, you can make GoodRx send a fax to your pharmacy telling them to bill the fill with GoodRx. So I fail to see how they are better there.

What's the other thing they do? 2-day shipping? Ancient 20th Century CVS is offering free delivery via USPS. And because there is a CVS on every corner, it winds up being next day delivery because all scripts are local mail. And every mom and pop pharmacy around offers free same day delivery. I get that they own Whole Foods, but there aren't that many Whole Foods. They are just in affluent suburban and urban areas. So they aren't beating anyone on actual convenience.

You also have to add the baked in advantage Walgreens and CVS have from owning their own PBMs and you can see how they maintain an advantage. That's something Amazon just doesn't have to level the playing field right now.

I guess it's possible that Amazon has a similar effect to Apple brand electronic devices. People just like the brand and familiarity and buy products from them no matter how good the actual product is. I could see that happening, sure. But industry disruptor? lol, no.
 
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chase88 said:
Can CVS survive without making any money?
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Yes. They own Caremark. They will offer Amazon a contract rate that competes with their own internal pharmacy rate. CVS doesn't care if the pharmacy makes money if the PBM is making more than the pharmacy loses. Amazon doesn't have a PBM to manipulate payments with like CVS does.
 
mentos said:
How do they even screen that many applications, look at the first ten then ignore the rest? Imagine the hours and hours of wasted time all those 1,000 applicants put in to apply.
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Idk how but that’s what my friend told me.
 
chase88 said:
You should consider these numbers :

- amazon has 130m prime members.
- only 5% get their medications thru the mail
- cvs makes a measly 3% profit
- cvs has $72b in debt

Even if Amazon takes just 5-10% of CVS business, that is still significant. This will force stores closure and cut in rph hours. It won’t be just 5-10% but more just to stay afloat.

Amazon is known for killing the middleman and CVS is a middleman. It doesn’t create anything.
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Ok. Considered.

They still don't have a PBM. Yes, it's a middle man. But it's how insurance is administered in the US. They would have to completely restructure the current US healthcare system to "kill the middleman."

Until there is single payer or significant PBM reform, pharmacies with PBMs will have an advantage. This could change. If the Democrats win those seats in Georgia, we might see both.

I can see Amazon getting two customers. Those that pay cash. Those that are brand loyal to Amazon. Maybe that's enough to destroy CVS. I doubt it, but you never know. You might be right. If I see transfer outs to Amazon all week long, I guess we'll know.
 
I also wonder how having the InsideRx rate listed on their site affects any billing they can do with Part B/D. They have to maintain their U&C rate. Does listing the discount card rate right on the website change the U&C rate in a legal sense? If they submit a U&C to Medicare that is higher than the discounted price on their website, I do wonder if they will get a visit from the fraud division at Medicaid.
 
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chase88 said:
That business approach is why cvs is going to lose. Instead of building a better mouse trap like Amazon, cvs thinks it can control the market by gaining market share. If amazon can build a better mouse trap, they will eventually out price and outcompete cvs.

Has cvs reduced healthcare cost? No
Are customers happy with cvs? No

Cvs literally has no competitive advantage.

It is not just cvs...it is also walgreens, rite aid, independents. That is a lot of jobs.
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That's all well and good, but Amazon isn't improving anything. They are slower than retail pharmacies. They have zero same day ability. They have no PBM.

And CVS and Wags have a decisive competitive advantage - their own PBM as well as medical insurance companies. You are acting like the vertical integration they have built isn't going to help them massively.

If Amazon had some sort of plan ready to actually disrupt the system, I could see it. But they don't as far as I can tell.

And jobs are going away no matter who "wins". You think CVS and Wags aren't actively trying to put us all out of work at this very moment? lol.
 
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“A better mousetrap”? It’s slow as hell mail-order. The advantage is brand recognition, not “a better mousetrap”.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Amazon will win, but it isn’t because they are building a better mousetrap. It’s the same mousetrap, actually a slightly worse one, but people love Amazon so that might be enough.

If anything PillPack was the better mousetrap. That actually was something new/different.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
That's all well and good, but Amazon isn't improving anything. They are slower than retail pharmacies. They have zero same day ability. They have no PBM.

And CVS and Wags have a decisive competitive advantage - their own PBM as well as medical insurance companies. You are acting like the vertical integration they have built isn't going to help them massively.

If Amazon had some sort of plan ready to actually disrupt the system, I could see it. But they don't as far as I can tell.

And jobs are going away no matter who "wins". You think CVS and Wags aren't actively trying to put us all out of work at this very moment? lol.
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Amazon will win in the long run. They are most likely going to settle the PBM and insurance situation as they continue to work on this launch. With this generation of people that are always glued to their phones/computer, they will want to have a one-stop shop with the convenience of the app/website and will grow with their loyal customer base. They already have their own line of OTC products and I can see them venturing out and purchasing a pharmaceutical company in the future. I don't ever see CVS and Wags going away but I don't think they can compete against Amazon with online delivery and tech usability especially when we are relying more and more on technology over time.
 
rxkrafted said:
Amazon will win in the long run. They are most likely going to settle the PBM and insurance situation as they continue to work on this launch. With this generation of people that are always glued to their phones/computer, they will want to have a one-stop shop with the convenience of the app/website and will grow with their loyal customer base. They already have their own line of OTC products and I can see them venturing out and purchasing a pharmaceutical company in the future. I don't ever see CVS and Wags going away but I don't think they can compete against Amazon with online delivery and tech usability especially when we are relying more and more on technology over time.
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OK. Until they buy a PBM and increase their retail footprint, I'm not convinced.
 
Rise of Amazon pharmacy won’t really affect current pharmacy market. Mail-order has been around for many many years.

And they can’t compete with Cvs/ Esi/ UH mailorders without investing significant resources.
 
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