Anesthesia- COMLEX vs USMLE

[Smess]

I am a current 3rd year DO student who just got my COMLEX score back with a 529. I was hoping for at least a 550. I really want to apply to anesthesia programs but I am not sure if I should take the USMLE step 1 or not.

I have seen most of the programs on Freida website want you to have a 550 COMLEX (although they have not released the new average for this previous 2019 COMLEX)

Should I keep COMLEX score, crush third year and step 2 and hope I can get an away rotation with my top programs?
OR
Grind hard third year and study for USMLE and take that sometime within this year?

I am so torn because I am also not sure if only taking the COMLEX will put me at a disadvantage to other applicants with the USMLE! Any thoughts?

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[docbsb2015]

Take both USMLE exams

 

[UrbanAchievers]

The very large majority of programs will not look at your application without a USMLE score.

 

[UnoMas]

Second the above comment. You might be able to get away with just Step 1 if your Step 1 score is rock solid, otherwise an application without USMLE scores will make a painful 4th year for you

 

[somedumbDO]

I was in your similar situation take both, if ya need too crush step2 complex and usmle. it’s time and money but you should of done them right after each other.

 

[cgk]

Are there any anesthesia programs that will consider a DO applicant who will not be taking USMLE step 2CK?

 

[NVO]

Are there any anesthesia programs that will consider a DO applicant who will not be taking USMLE step 2CK?

Yeah. Look into former DO programs

 

[AdmiralChz]

Are there any anesthesia programs that will consider a DO applicant who will not be taking USMLE step 2CK?

Nearly every ACGME program will require both and won’t review your app otherwise.

I do agree that perhaps former AOA programs might give you a look... but with the huge increase they will get in applications I suspect they too will want it. I am not sure if all AOA programs are required to transition to ACGME, yet.

 

[cgk]

Nearly every ACGME program will require both and won’t review your app otherwise.

I do agree that perhaps former AOA programs might give you a look... but with the huge increase they will get in applications I suspect they too will want it. I am not sure if all AOA programs are required to transition to ACGME, yet.

If you do an audition rotation can they make an exception and not require Step 2CK for acceptance into residency program , or are those requirements across the board adhered to strictly?

 

[AdmiralChz]

If you do an audition rotation can they make an exception and not require Step 2CK for acceptance into residency program , or are those requirements across the board adhered to strictly?

At my program we were strict about it. USMLEs are one of the few data points we have that are comparable across all applicants.

 

[Gern Blansten]

If you do not take the USMLE, you are limiting yourself likely by at least 75% of the allopathic programs, and you don't know which ones those are (but they are likely most of the good ones).
It is an easy question to answer. If you want to match into an allopathic residency, you darn well better be taking the exam that all of the other potential candidates are taking. And you better do pretty darn good on the exams. Fair or not, that is the way it is right now.
All programs have the ability to take you with only a COMLEX score, but most have no interest in doing that.

 

[cgk]

If you do not take the USMLE, you are limiting yourself likely by at least 75% of the allopathic programs, and you don't know which ones those are (but they are likely most of the good ones).
It is an easy question to answer. If you want to match into an allopathic residency, you darn well better be taking the exam that all of the other potential candidates are taking. And you better do pretty darn good on the exams. Fair or not, that is the way it is right now.
All programs have the ability to take you with only a COMLEX score, but most have no interest in doing that.

Does that include Step 2CK?

 

[abolt18]

Does that include Step 2CK?

Step 1 and step 2 CK.

It is NOT necessary to take Step 2 CS as a DO.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Does that include Step 2CK?

Most take both, but sometimes just having either I or II is okay. Both is by far best. Never take the USMLE CS as a DO, though. Waste of time and money and it can only harm you.
As I have stated before, many D.O. schools farm out their students to rural areas with little to no support in the form of advisors. These are questions that should easily be able to be answered by an advisor. However, D.O. faculty have competing interests because they want their students to fill the traditionally osteopathic residency positions and do primary care. If D.O. students want to do specialties, they are often on their own with trying to navigate the process.

 

[Gern Blansten]

It is NOT necessary to take Step 2 CS as a DO.

Agree. Someone posted the failure rate of the USMLE CS exam for osteopathic students a while back. The pass rate was dismal. Like, really really bad. My theory is that there are not any bright osteopathic students taking that exam, so the exam pass rate for D.O. students is negatively impacted.

 

[NecFasc92]

Agree. Someone posted the failure rate of the USMLE CS exam for osteopathic students a while back. The pass rate was dismal. Like, really really bad. My theory is that there are not any bright osteopathic students taking that exam, so the exam pass rate for D.O. students is negatively impacted.

What?

United States Medical Licensing Examination | Performance Data

The United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) assesses a physician's ability to apply knowledge, concepts, and principles, and to demonstrate fundamental patient-centered skills, that are important in health and disease.

www.usmle.org

 

[Gern Blansten]

What?

United States Medical Licensing Examination | Performance Data

The United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) assesses a physician's ability to apply knowledge, concepts, and principles, and to demonstrate fundamental patient-centered skills, that are important in health and disease.

www.usmle.org

Was dismal too strong of a word? No offense intended. A rate of 85% for DO's vs 95% for MD's seemed pretty bad for an exam that a couple of years ago, was considered a chip shot with a 99% pass rate. So, an 85% pass rate seemed really bad to me. The point being, DO's should never take the exam. Going further, the exam should have never existed, but that is a whole different thread and goes back to licensing agencies and certifying boards taking more and more of physician's dollars.

 

[NecFasc92]

Was dismal too strong of a word? No offense intended. A rate of 85% for DO's vs 95% for MD's seemed pretty bad for an exam that a couple of years ago, was considered a chip shot with a 99% pass rate. So, an 85% pass rate seemed really bad to me. The point being, DO's should never take the exam. Going further, the exam should have never existed, but that is a whole different thread and goes back to licensing agencies and certifying boards taking more and more of physician's dollars.

None taken. Just thought it was interesting. No idea why 50 even take it in a given year.

And, you’re right it shouldn’t exist. Just yet another thing the baby boomer generation of docs have done to screw over the younger docs

 

[Pharmado]

I agree that DOs should never take CS. It is a waste of time and money with 0 benefit.

As far as the OP goes, you’ve got to take the USMLE step I at minimum and step II likely. Also, you need better scores to be frank. The COMLEX average is 500. A 529 is above average, but will not impress anyone and will exclude you automatically from some places, as will not taking the USMLE. I was in the 580’s and that did me zero good. Only my USMLE scores got any run. A PD did tell me he prefers scores over 600. That was the extent of what happened.

The biggest issue with DOs getting into anesthesia has been the utter lack of decent DO programs. Before the ACGME/AOA residency ‘merger’ there were around 30 DO spots and 1000ish ACGME spots in residency. Aside from a few spots at dual ACGME/AOA programs, those 30 spots were not desirable either. Act like you are a DO breaking into an MD world. Do what they do, take the tests they take (except CS). Make the PDs happy with apples-to-apples comparisons. That will give you the best chance to match.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I scored a 243 on Step 1 and am interested in anesthesiology. I'm actually a bit worried about Step 2 -- I studied for so long for Step 1, I honestly think I peaked as far as my test-taking ability. I'm doing god-awful on UW for Step 2 prep with my NBME shelves. Anyone know or approximate how badly a drop in my Step 2 will hurt me down the road? I think I can hit the average 50th%ile whatever that is, but otherwise I have been wondering about this recently.

 

[Pharmado]

Dr Strange, you’ve got a good Step 1 score, easily enough to get into anesthesia. You need to take Step 2 and get a similar score, but you don’t have to take it soon. Applications can go in without Step 2 scores. Take your time and don’t take it until you are sure you can get a decent score.

 

[NVO]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I scored a 243 on Step 1 and am interested in anesthesiology. I'm actually a bit worried about Step 2 -- I studied for so long for Step 1, I honestly think I peaked as far as my test-taking ability. I'm doing god-awful on UW for Step 2 prep with my NBME shelves. Anyone know or approximate how badly a drop in my Step 2 will hurt me down the road? I think I can hit the average 50th%ile whatever that is, but otherwise I have been wondering about this recently.

Most people say that as long as you didn't do worse (number-wise) on Step 2, you should be fine. So if you hit 50% percentile, that would be a score of ~245, which would be fine and not looked down upon. I did better on Step 1 than Step 2 in regards to percentiles, but my Step 2 score is higher and I was told that PDs won't think twice about it and that it's fine.

 

[aimedicine]

Was dismal too strong of a word? No offense intended. A rate of 85% for DO's vs 95% for MD's seemed pretty bad for an exam that a couple of years ago, was considered a chip shot with a 99% pass rate. So, an 85% pass rate seemed really bad to me. The point being, DO's should never take the exam. Going further, the exam should have never existed, but that is a whole different thread and goes back to licensing agencies and certifying boards taking more and more of physician's dollars.

Not enough D.O take usmle cs to draw any meaningful conclusion from the pass rate. Sample size is too small.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Not enough D.O take usmle cs to draw any meaningful conclusion from the pass rate. Sample size is too small.

Hopefully, D.O. students will get the message and the sample size will be even smaller. It can't help and can only hurt for a D.O. to take the USMLE step II CS.

 

[deleted697127]

Take both step 1 and 2 ck. You want to portray yourself as someone that is hardworking and aiming to get into the best possible program for you. You will not necessarily know what that program is until you interview. Not taking the exam limits your options. Knowingly limiting your options seems lazy and like you are only trying to do just enough to get by. Hardworking residents make life easier. Laziness can be contagious. If someone is trying to get out of doing work, that usually leaves more work to go around for everyone else. Don’t label yourself as lazy.

Crushing third year is good in theory but there is a ton of variation in what third year actually is between schools which makes USMLE whether we like it or not, the gold standard for comparing applicants. If you do not meet the USMLE score threshold for a program, you will probably be screened out before anyone even looks at the rest of your application.

Once you get an interview, your foot is in the door and it is your opportunity to see if you mesh with the program. If you have an interview, you have a shot at matching at the program even if it’s a last minute interview in March.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Dr Strange, you’ve got a good Step 1 score, easily enough to get into anesthesia. You need to take Step 2 and get a similar score, but you don’t have to take it soon. Applications can go in without Step 2 scores. Take your time and don’t take it until you are sure you can get a decent score.

Thank you for the encouragement! I'm only a few months in M3, so I am not trying to jump the gun or anything, but am wanting to plan my year (and prep). I'll just keep my head down and continue studying as hard as I can!