Anesthesia contracts at ASCs

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CaliCatheter

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How common is it for ASCs to subsidize for anesthesia? Is it commonplace for us NOT to balance bill pts at a surgicenter?

I have an opportunity to be part of the anesthesia group exclusively providing anesthesia at a surgicenter and would like some more info on the game before I start playing.

Thanks in advance!

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How common is it for ASCs to subsidize for anesthesia? Is it commonplace for us NOT to balance bill pts at a surgicenter?

I have an opportunity to be part of the anesthesia group exclusively providing anesthesia at a surgicenter and would like some more info on the game before I start playing.

Thanks in advance!

Generally zero subsidies.

Do some research. Stand a lone anesthesia only contracts at ASC's are becoming very rare.

Part of it has to deal with how insurers pay anesthesia only contract at ASCs. (Hint: if anesthesia contract is bundled with ANY hospital contract the anesthesia reimbursement is much much higher per unit than if a single ASC only solo contract)
 
Hmm

I negotiate these contracts for my group we have 3 hospitals, 1 eye center and 1 ASC, here is my experience

#1) I am unaware of any ASCs who pay a subsidy. They can often get an MD or CRNA to cover these centers even if they generate less as a lifestyle option. Or they simply use a constant rotating group of mixed providers to cover on a PRN basis with one (or no) permanent staff. This really comes down to OR utilization, volume and payer mix.

#2) There are no "anesthesia unit prices" specific to ASCs, only the facility fee is different at a hospital vs an ASC (higher at hospitals).

#3) Your anesthesia conversion factor (what you are paid per unit) is determined by your negotiation with the payor, who and how good your negotiator is, the number of 'lives' under that insurance you will be serving in your contract and lastly the options in the area who are in network.

Clearly I can negotiate better $/RVU than someone who just works at an ASC could simply because we cover more lives and are the only game in town than someone who just covers an ASC trying to make it fee for service.

In theory an ASC has a much better payor mix than a hospital does. An average payor mix at a hospital is 60/40 medicare + medicaid / Private insurance whereas one would assume an ASC would have much higher private insurance %. However, my experience has been this is not always the case. At our ASC we do MORE medicare/medicaid (MC/MA) than at the hospital because the ASC cannot negotiate a facility fee deal that is better than what they get paid from MC/MA. So what results in happening is that the insurance cases are brought to the hospital and everything else (including cash pay deals) are at the ASC.

I would also mention that my experience has been that ASCs have unrealistic expectations of coverage as it related to OR utilization and case volume, particularly if surgeons are owners. They feel all rooms should be avaliable at all times and all hours whenever they want to add-on a case. You have to be VERY aggressive and willing to walk away when this happens and base your coverage on OR utilization and total volume numbers. You play this as a win win as they can decrease labor costs by not having staff sitting all day covering an unused room waiting for that one case someone MIGHT add-on. Remember they aren't paying YOU so they dont care about your time but they ARE paying RNs and techs.

Does that all make sense?


Generally zero subsidies.

Do some research. Stand a lone anesthesia only contracts at ASC's are becoming very rare.

Part of it has to deal with how insurers pay anesthesia only contract at ASCs. (Hint: if anesthesia contract is bundled with ANY hospital contract the anesthesia reimbursement is much much higher per unit than if a single ASC only solo contract)
 
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Very informative! thanks so much.

What about for out-of-network services where we don't necessarily negotiate prices with insurance companies? Is it commonplace to balance bill pts?

Also, what are avenues of an anesthesiologist to get shares in an ASC they work in? Being medical director?

Thanks in advance. Not much info on the internet about this....
 
Hi

Let me answer after each Question.

"What about for out-of-network services where we don't necessarily negotiate prices with insurance companies? Is it commonplace to balance bill pts?"

Absolutely. It is also common to negotiate cash pay rates for high deductible patients as well as uninsured patients. However, the issue with balance billing is that a large percentage will not pay it because they have nothing to lose if they dont. Sure, it goes to collections (who gets 40% of what they recoup so you automatically lose that much) but that does not guarantee payment.

It is also important to understand the risks of going "out of network" (OON). When you do this you are taking a gamble. As a single provider at an ASC you represent small peanuts to them and they will feel no urgency to negotiate with you. We went OON for a YEAR with 3 hospitals and 2 ASCs against BCBS before they came back to the table and during that time they paid us HALF of what our eventual rate was. Moreover they sent the check for that half to the PATIENT in the PATIENTs name many of which immediately cashed it and never paid us. In addition to that when you balance bill the patient if the rate is high you will get significant grief from the ASC admin when the patients start to complain that the cost of the anesthesia is more than the surgery and they could go down the road for cheaper. This can cost you a contract as one friend of mine found out.

so its risky tho necessary at times but you have to be ready to lose.

"Also, what are avenues of an anesthesiologist to get shares in an ASC they work in? Being medical director?"

This used to be the case but in my experience the trend now is to EXCLUDE us from ownership unless we generate revenue. You can see their side of it, anesthesia is a cost center (equipment, drugs etc) and the only person getting revenue from it is you, why should all the surgeons who generate revenue for the ASC in the form of facility fees share ANY of that with a non-revenue generator?

So unless you can bring pain to the ASC (or share in the initial financial startup costs of the ASC) it is much more likely they will see you as a necessary evil and never as a partner likely never offering shares.

It is what it is and not being revenue generators for the facility anesthesia often gets little respect, at least financially.
 
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My old group would send 1099's to patients for the checks they received from their insurance company and never sent to us. Wanna stiff us - fine but the IRS is gonna know about that "unreported income" you just got.
 
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Wow, Kurtbrie throwing down. Well said my man (or woman). 5 star posts.
 
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More on "out-of -network" billing.
Many states are debating legislature regarding this. Essentially, they want to make it illegal. My state debated it last session and the medical societies that represent the physicians were on board right up until the end. The reason many society boards were in favor of the rule change was because they are academic people and they didn't understand the reason for "out-of network" billing. OON is one of the last negotiating tools we have with insurance companies. If you don't like their rates then you don't have to accept them and then their pts get a larger bill, which can be negotiated down but they then start to complain to their ins carrier. The ins carrier then starts to lose customers since they don't play ball in the area. If the laws were to prevent this then the carriers would drop their prices even more and doc's would have no leg to stand on.
 
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My old group would send 1099's to patients for the checks they received from their insurance company and never sent to us. Wanna stiff us - fine but the IRS is gonna know about that "unreported income" you just got.

since they are already getting sent to collections and reported to credit agencies, that's a nice little whip cream and cherry on top of the sundae for them.
 
Wow, Kurtbrie throwing down. Well said my man (or woman). 5 star posts.

I was lucky to have great people teach me so im paying it forwrd
 
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