Annoying First Year EC Shenanigans

[Soulidaulph]

Hey everyone, long time lurker, decided to finally make an account. So I am a first year at a US allopathic school. I know that ECs arent really that important but I have found a club that I think I would really enjoy doing and be involved in and decided that this is something I would like to run for an officer position for. I found out that another kid, who is already an officer of 5 other clubs is also running. Its annoying!

In your experience, do these same people hog EC positions in foolish hopes that it will get them into derm?

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[Psai]

Maybe you should stop comparing and focus on doing the best you can do. What makes you think that they want derm and what makes you think that they don't care about these clubs as much as you do

 

[Awared]

I think that doing well in your courses and step 1 will make a better application than doing mediocre in your courses and step 1, but having a bunch of extracurriculars. That being said, I imagine the person who can be an officer in 5 different clubs while honoring his classes and getting a SD above the mean for step 1 will likely be a competitive applicant. I think it is all about knowing your strengths and how much you can actually do.

edit: Quoting a post from Dermvisor:
"
The ones who I knew who did very well, I mean: "H" in nearly every preclinical course, got 250s-260s on Step 1, continued their superachieving level of performance in the clinical years as well checking off getting AOA, getting even higher on Step 2, and overall winning the game called medical school. That doesn't mean they didn't burn out (we all do), but they either had great coping skills or avenues of good stress release to get their energy back.

On top of all this, many of them had done research and published in clinical journals as well and were also great in social situations, and were married by the end of MS-4. There will be some people who are really that "perfect". Yes, it sucks from an ego-bruising perspective. It's best not to compare yourself to them and just be happy with what you are able to achieve.
"

I know that this description is certainly not about me, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to try any less.

 

[Soulidaulph]

I"m not comparing myself to her, Im annoyed that she feels the need to be an officer in every single EC.

 

[DermViser]

Hey everyone, long time lurker, decided to finally make an account. So I am a first year at a US allopathic school. I know that ECs arent really that important but I have found a club that I think I would really enjoy doing and be involved in and decided that this is something I would like to run for an officer position for. I found out that another kid, who is already an officer of 5 other clubs is also running. Its annoying!

In your experience, do these same people hog EC positions in foolish hopes that it will get them into derm?

Great potshot at Derm. Unnecessarily. Stop being a douche. Pretty sure that kid is going for ENT.

I"m not comparing myself to her, Im annoyed that she feels the need to be an officer in every single EC.

By the time she gets to MS-4, she'll only be officer of only one, bc it will look bad if she's applying for Surgery and has IM Interest Group Vice-President on her app.

 

[Soulidaulph]

Great potshot at Derm. Unnecessarily. Stop being a douche. Pretty sure that kid is going for ENT.


By the time she gets to MS-4, she'll only be officer of only one, bc it will look bad if she's applying for Surgery and has IM Interest Group Vice-President on her app.

That literally had nothing to do with Dermviser. He would probably agree with those that say this obsessiveness with ECs is just that... obsessive and unnecessary. Not everyone on this forum is looking for a fight. Thanks for the concern though bro.

 

[DermViser]

That literally had nothing to do with Dermviser. He would probably agree with those that say this obsessiveness with ECs is just that... obsessive and unnecessary. Not everyone on this forum is looking for a fight. Thanks for the concern though bro.

You said: "In your experience, do these same people hog EC positions in foolish hopes that it will get them into derm?" You jumped from someone who was obssessed with garnering officer positions with going for Derm and trying to connect the two. You were wrong to do so, bro.

 

[Soulidaulph]

I was insinuating that she was vying for something competitive and going overboard. What is the first specialty you think of when you think competitive? Either way, I apologize if that's how it came off, it was not intended. I am simply frustrated that one person is trying to do everything when some people have an interest in doing one club out of genuine interest. Not assuming that she isnt genuine, but 5 clubs? really?

 

[DermViser]

I was insinuating that she was vying for something competitive and going overboard. What is the first specialty you think of when you think competitive? Either way, I apologize if that's how it came off, it was not intended. I am simply frustrated that one person is trying to do everything when some people have an interest in doing one club out of genuine interest. Not assuming that she isnt genuine, but 5 clubs? really?

Plastics. I think it's ridiculous that your school allows that, although I guess the excuse could be used she's not sure what she wants to do. No big deal. Residencies don't care. CV fluffing of officer positions doesn't work as well at the residency match level than getting into medical school. You can be officer all you want, but if you're not doing anything of actual substance or out of the ordinary OR you don't have the scores/grades, etc. then it really doesn't matter.

 

[Soulidaulph]

Thats all I mean. I think its a waste of an opportunity not just for me but for other students who want to actually do something of substance with the group rather than just CV pad.

 

[ChEMD]

The best advice here really is to stop caring about what other people are doing. If you take a second and stop being judgmental, you may find that person really just enjoys clubs and being in a leadership role. The fact that you see this person in such a negative way is really just a reflection on you and your worries about not doing enough outside of school.

 

[Soulidaulph]

The best advice here really is to stop caring about what other people are doing. If you take a second and stop being judgmental, you may find that person really just enjoys clubs and being in a leadership role. The fact that you see this person in such a negative way is really just a reflection on you and your worries about not doing enough outside of school.

I appreciate your response. But honestly it doesnt bother me that she is involved. Good for her. I am just annoyed that her 5th officer position happened to be for a club that i really wanted to be involved in. And unfortunately there is only one position for M1s in this club, aside from being a general member.

 

[DermViser]

I appreciate your response. But honestly it doesnt bother me that she is involved. Good for her. I am just annoyed that her 5th officer position happened to be for a club that i really wanted to be involved in. And unfortunately there is only one position for M1s in this club, aside from being a general member.

Be honest. It bothers you a little: "I found out that another kid, who is already an officer of 5 other clubs is also running. Its annoying!" and "I'm not comparing myself to her, Im annoyed that she feels the need to be an officer in every single EC." You didn't care about the first 5 positions she had bc you weren't interested in them. It only came into play when you were interested in what would be her 6th position. You have no idea what her motivations are, right or wrong.

No biggie. You can start out as a member, get to know people better by being involved and then run for officer. You're an MS-1. Your main objective (right now) is doing well in coursework and maybe flipping thru a First Aid so you have an idea (somewhat) what the endpoint is at the end of 2 years.

Officer elected positions in a specialty interest group are ancillary and are more something to talk about once you're at interviews. They don't net you the interview.

 

[deuist]

At my own alma mater, we had about 20 students in my class who ran every organization from student government to most of the interest groups to even the choir. These people got elected into positions of power as freshmen while most people were trying to study and then spent the next four years appointing each other to positions so they could pad their resumes in attempts to land an elusive residency spot. Watching them work is like visiting the zoo and watching the monkeys pick nits out of each other’s hair. At the end of each year, they hold self-congratulatory parties in which they circle jerk to let the rest of the student body know how awesome they are for organizing the spring formal and judiciously dispensing student government funds to the registered groups on campus.

While I have no problem with someone wanting to become involved with extracurricular activities on campus, there is certainly a line that people cross when they join organizations for the sake of holding leadership positions. I was the president of one of my campus’ interest groups. I had a vice president who had never been to a meeting, a secretary who did not return an email during the year after his election, and a treasurer who had no idea how much money is in our budget. In a sense, I had to run every officer position in the club during the year and frankly, I’m quite annoyed that other students would run for positions without any intention of following through on their leadership responsibilities.

The other line people cross is mistaking leadership for dictatorship. I know quite a few people who believe that barking orders to others is the only necessary component to leadership. Our class president was completely ineffective at his job and needed the secretary to plan and organize every event from social functions to the teacher of the year award. He would then gladly take credit for all of the effort put forth by others. While I would like to claim that he is an idiot, his move was actually very smart. If a residency committee were to acknowledge the accomplishments of our student government, he would automatically gain credit simply from his position.

There really is no other way around the situation. You can try to ignore it during your four years in medical school. Some people just need to be in charge and there is nothing you can do to stop them, unless you plan on running against them in the next election.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

If that bothers you, why not start your own club? I did something similar when I realized that the leadership of my school's Habitat for Humanity service learning project was composed of the same four or five people who were leading every other activity in the school. Of course none of them knew the first thing about construction; they only wanted one more layer of resume padding. Rather than compete with the gunners, I went and talked with Project Homecoming, a local volunteer organization that also builds and remodels houses for low-income families like Habitat for Humanity does. After a few meetings and phone calls, I got Project Homecoming set up as a service learning project so students from my med school can get credit for working there (we have a required number of volunteer hours). Now I'm running a project that I enjoy and I'm good at. At this point I'm the entire leadership of the project, and I'm guessing that starting something new will look better on my residency than being just one of the people who takes over an existing project.

 

[Doctor Bob]

I am just annoyed that her 5th officer position happened to be for a club that i really wanted to be involved in. And unfortunately there is only one position for M1s in this club, aside from being a general member.

Then just be a general member. Be more actively involved in the club than she is. Show that you're genuinely interested and involved. Then during M2 year you can hold an office that has a bit more gravitas (club president means more than club M1 rep or whatever). If you show people that you're more likely to do stuff for the club than she will, that election won't be as difficult.

Officer elected positions in a specialty interest group are ancillary and are more something to talk about once you're at interviews. They don't net you the interview.

No matter how much gravitas a position has (club president, class president, school president, etc), this above statement holds true. The club position you hold (be it officer or general member) won't get you or lose you an interview.

 

[Doctor Bob]

If that bothers you, why not start your own club?

"Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own theme park, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the park!" - Bender

 

[Kaustikos]

I just decided to help my friends automotive/racing shop get started and running. No one expects that and the questions come piling. You don't have to do ec that are strictly medicine. As long as it shows teamwork/leadership. Bonus if you actually like it

 

[mcloaf]

I found out that another kid, who is already an officer of 5 other clubs is also running.

Yeah these people are pretty common in my experience. There exists a large number of med students who sign up for every single thing that enters their inbox. By this time next year people in at least 3 of those clubs will hate her because she never comes to meetings or pulls her weight. Just pick a thing or two you think are cool and do those. If you have more time do research.

 

[operaman]

Great potshot at Derm. Unnecessarily. Stop being a douche. Pretty sure that kid is going for ENT.

Hahaha nicely done, sir.

 

[operaman]

OP - focus on grades and boards right now. If you have time for ANYTHING else, start getting involved with research. Publications/presentations/posters are far more important for any residency than some MS1 leadership positions. 1 first author publication >>>> 20 leadership positions. No, not really exaggerating.

Look, there's no way Miss Overinvolved can do that many leadership positions and give any of them the attention it truly requires. It's obvious CV padding and I would personally look past all of it unless one of them were substantial. Leadership done well takes time and dedication and, well, actual leadership ability. It sounds like she's bring the pre-med mentality to med school. I've seen a lot of student CVs like this and it looks funny.

I would run against her and you'll probably win-- no doubt her overinvolvement is noticed and probably annoying others. We had people like this in my class too and soon everyone would roll their eyes when that person was running for something again.

In the meantime, focus on grades and boards because those are the first things people look at. Next is research. All the rest is just fluff. Don't get me wrong, you need some fluff -- a CV with nothing under those categories looks odd -- but they don't compensate for poor grades/boards. First things first.

 

[Dermione Granger]

Trying to get into derm? Working towards outstanding grades, networking with dermies, get some projects going, try to be a socially normal person (aka be nice and have a life outside of school) >>>>>> school club officers.

 

[Psai]

Trying to get into derm? Working towards outstanding grades, networking with dermies, get some projects going, try to be a socially normal person (aka be nice and have a life outside of school) >>>>>> school club officers.

your name is surprisingly appropriate

 

[PL198]

I don't get why people do this. Like do they honestly think someone gives a crap that they're in 12 different student organizations? I never understand how these people do fine academically either, because it's gotta take a lot of time to do all that BS.

 

[Ismet]

I don't get why people do this. Like do they honestly think someone gives a crap that they're in 12 different student organizations? I never understand how these people do fine academically either, because it's gotta take a lot of time to do all that BS.

And I don't get why other people care. If they can juggle 12 organizations and still perform well academically, more power to them. Some people are just used to being super involved and have good time management. If they falter academically, they'll figure out that they need to drop some of the groups. It really has no effect on you.

 

[PL198]

And I don't get why other people care. If they can juggle 12 organizations and still perform well academically, more power to them. Some people are just used to being super involved and have good time management. If they falter academically, they'll figure out that they need to drop some of the groups. It really has no effect on you.

It has an effect on me when they interrupt the start of every lecture to talk about their next dumb project or flood my email with their bull-crap, or waste the time of administration when other productive things to actually help the school could be done.

 

[DermViser]

And I don't get why other people care. If they can juggle 12 organizations and still perform well academically, more power to them. Some people are just used to being super involved and have good time management. If they falter academically, they'll figure out that they need to drop some of the groups. It really has no effect on you.

They usually don't. They CV pad and have others do the real work.

 

[mcloaf]

And I don't get why other people care. If they can juggle 12 organizations and still perform well academically, more power to them. Some people are just used to being super involved and have good time management. If they falter academically, they'll figure out that they need to drop some of the groups. It really has no effect on you.

I'd argue that it can absolutely have detrimental effects on classmates. Signing up for everything under the sun makes it harder for people who are really into X organization to get into a leadership position if the field is clouded with 7 other people who just want to put another line on their ERAS. From what I've seen these things tend to operate by a feed forward mechanism in which the same 10-20 people who signed up for the most things at the beginning of M1 continue getting involved in everything because they are known quantities to both classmates and administrators. Not to mention that, as @DermViser points out, they generally are not able to maintain all these commitments and end up blowing off some of these ECs, leaving their classmates to pick up the slack and continuing to occupy a position that would have been better filled by someone else.

 

[Ismet]

It has an effect on me when they interrupt the start of every lecture to talk about their next dumb project or flood my email with their bull-crap, or waste the time of administration when other productive things to actually help the school could be done.

Either you're exaggerating or there is a completely different dynamic at your school than mine. It is rare for anyone to give an announcement at the start of a lecture, as most things are communicated via email. Sometimes a class officer will have an announcement about something, but it's literally a 30 second update or reminder. For the emails, yes we usually get a lot of email, but it's pretty easy to screen by the subject line and just delete what I don't care about. Other people do care about those things. Also not sure how student groups waste administration time. A lot of the student groups are quite productive in providing community service or education outside the classroom. IMO these are not things that are worth wasting time and energy being annoyed about.

They usually don't. They CV pad and have others do the real work.

I'd argue that it can absolutely have detrimental effects on classmates. Signing up for everything under the sun makes it harder for people who are really into X organization to get into a leadership position if the field is clouded with 7 other people who just want to put another line on their ERAS. From what I've seen these things tend to operate by a feed forward mechanism in which the same 10-20 people who signed up for the most things at the beginning of M1 continue getting involved in everything because they are known quantities to both classmates and administrators. Not to mention that, as @DermViser points out, they generally are not able to maintain all these commitments and end up blowing off some of these ECs, leaving their classmates to pick up the slack and continuing to occupy a position that would have been better filled by someone else.

I don't know anyone who holds more than ~4 officer positions (I assumed the 12 number was hyperbole and I used it as such), but the people here who are group officers do the work, send out the emails, etc. Maybe different schools have a different dynamic that I'm just not experiencing. I get that it can be disappointing or frustrating to not get a leadership position in a group you love, that happened to several of my classmates at the end of MS1 when it was time to elect new officers for student groups. But I wouldn't call it "detrimental." Keep participating in the group, and if you end up having to take on some leadership responsibilities, you can describe it on ERAS and in interviews. You don't need the officer title to have a meaningful contribution to the group. If the officer really isn't doing anything, bring it up with the faculty advisor of the group, that's what they're there for.

 

[Señor S]

I don't get why people do this. Like do they honestly think someone gives a crap that they're in 12 different student organizations? I never understand how these people do fine academically either, because it's gotta take a lot of time to do all that BS.

It's the same crap that got them into medical school in the first place most likely. The joiner type is heavily selected for.

 

[sylvanthus]

OP- apply for a national position in your field of choice and skip over the generic school club. Itll pay off much more.

 

[EMDO2018]

Derm seems like the lamest specialty, the only reason people do it is because of lifestyle.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Derm seems like the lamest specialty, the only reason people do it is because of lifestyle.

Well, that's massively ignorant, but it's in line with what most SDNers think, having never done a rotation in derm...

 

[operaman]

OP- apply for a national position in your field of choice and skip over the generic school club. Itll pay off much more.

YES in so many ways! Think outside your own little pond and focus on the big picture. People nationally are who you will competing against for the rest of your career, not just the people in your class. A lot will happen as people move through school, get boards back, etc. Plans change, aspiring dermatologists bang out a 225 and switch to IM, and people with leadership positions forget all about them as clinical duties take over. National positions, networking, research, etc. -- these are things that matter.

 

[Dermione Granger]

Well, that's massively ignorant, but it's in line with what most SDNers think, having never done a rotation in derm...

Haters gonna hate

 

[Dermione Granger]

OP- apply for a national position in your field of choice and skip over the generic school club. Itll pay off much more.

Very true. You can even get to travel to conferences and meet big wigs by applying to some of the travel awards.

 

[Psai]

Derm seems like the lamest specialty, the only reason people do it is because of lifestyle.

The people who hate on derm seem like the lamest people, the only reason people do it is because they can't match

 

[SuckySurgeon7]

Derm seems like the lamest specialty, the only reason people do it is because of lifestyle.

Awww, yeah. This is why I always come back to SDN... Alright, dermophiles, he's all yours...

 

[circulus vitios]

Outside of interest groups, why do people even do extracurricular activities in med school?

 

[operaman]

Outside of interest groups, why do people even do extracurricular activities in med school?

Because we have s--t we like to do that's not school?

 

[Ismet]

Outside of interest groups, why do people even do extracurricular activities in med school?

Because there are things that we find enjoyable? I played in the undergrad orchestra during MS1 and MS2, unfortunately don't have time for it anymore with 3rd year, and it's the first year in 17 years that I haven't played in an orchestra. I'm also a part of an a cappella group.

People at my school do everything from competitive ballroom dancing to bhangra to club sports...there's plenty of time in pre-clinical to work in time for your interests.

 

[Kaustikos]

Well, that's massively ignorant, but it's in line with what most SDNers think, having never done a rotation in derm...

It's not lame. It's true. How the **** is it possible that one of the highest paid specialties is the one least involved in a hospital? Or patients care?
Give me a break. I'd love to see how demanding derm would be if salary was cut in half and they were required to work normal doctor hours.

 

[Kaustikos]

And before you say it: I wouldn't do derm unless you paid me enough to hire someone to do my job while I stalked the OR

 

[PL198]

Derm seems like the lamest specialty, the only reason people do it is because of lifestyle.

I'd think doing derm was sweet even if it lifestyle wasn't chill. You get to cut stuff off outside of surgery and it has a lot of manual work like removing cysts and etc. You get to directly see what you've done

 

[Doctor Bob]

Derm seems like the lamest specialty, the only reason people do it is because of lifestyle.

We're kind of treading into the usual "your specialty is dumb because it has aspects that I don't like".

This is why there are lots of doctors; people who like different things. I don't like rashes. I don't like intricate cardiac surgery. I don't like staring at films all day long. That doesn't mean that derm, CT surgery, and radiology, are lame specialties. It just means they have aspects that do not appeal to me.

Now, should X specialty be reimbursed at the rate they are currently being reimbursed... well... that's another line of discussion and one that you will never get consensus on.

 

[Ismet]

It's not lame. It's true. How the **** is it possible that one of the highest paid specialties is the one least involved in a hospital? Or patients care?
Give me a break. I'd love to see how demanding derm would be if salary was cut in half and they were required to work normal doctor hours.

The few people I know in derm and who are applying to derm really like the pathology aspect of it. The ones I know going into derm saw dermatologists a lot as kids/adolescents and that had an effect on them as well. Of course the lifestyle and pay is a bonus, I'm not doubting that. But I also think it takes a certain kind of person with a certain interest to enjoy derm. I certainly would not want to look at rashes and cysts and stuff all day, no matter the pay or the hours. More power to them for doing that.

 

[DermViser]

Derm seems like the lamest specialty, the only reason people do it is because of lifestyle.

Says the guy who can't understand people who go into Path (bc he thinks he has the Path market all figured out) and can't understand why his academic Path faculty are helping in basic science coursework. Funny bc your interest in Psych is due to lifestyle concerns, which is hilarious from someone who started the P=MD thread.

 

[cbrons]

Hey everyone, long time lurker, decided to finally make an account. So I am a first year at a US allopathic school. I know that ECs arent really that important but I have found a club that I think I would really enjoy doing and be involved in and decided that this is something I would like to run for an officer position for. I found out that another kid, who is already an officer of 5 other clubs is also running. Its annoying!

In your experience, do these same people hog EC positions in foolish hopes that it will get them into derm?

I think its funny how in the latest Charting Trends the only category in which Unmatched applicants had a higher number than Matched applicants was in the extracurricular activities category.

 

[DermViser]

It's not lame. It's true. How the **** is it possible that one of the highest paid specialties is the one least involved in a hospital? Or patients care? Give me a break. I'd love to see how demanding derm would be if salary was cut in half and they were required to work normal doctor hours.

Ah, fitting into the surgery dingus mold already. DarknightX would be proud. There are specialties that pay more than Derm -- Radiology, Anesthesiology, etc. And now you know why other doctors in other specialties hate interacting with surgeons. Try doing an actual Derm rotation at your medical school and you can see why the academic faculty and residents like it. Newsflash - if Derm's salary was cut in half, people would STILL go into it.

 

[DermViser]

The few people I know in derm and who are applying to derm really like the pathology aspect of it. The ones I know going into derm saw dermatologists a lot as kids/adolescents and that had an effect on them as well. Of course the lifestyle and pay is a bonus, I'm not doubting that. But I also think it takes a certain kind of person with a certain interest to enjoy derm. I certainly would not want to look at rashes and cysts and stuff all day, no matter the pay or the hours. More power to them for doing that.

I think Derm is one of those fields where you either really like or really hate it. Not really in between. I think a lot of it depends on how it's taught in M2 Pathology where at the end, students still don't know how to describe basic skin lesions and get frustrated. At some medical schools in M2 Path, during the Derm block, they actually bring in patients for students to see and students are asked to describe the morphology of the lesion - and not just read it in Robbins. Some people are just "more visual" and notice more details that for others it is just being anal. To those people, Derm is more appealing. There are many other reasons that students find derm appealing besides lifestyle and paycheck (as the student has yet to even get the latter).

There are students who rotate in Derm, who while they may not be going for Derm at all, by the end of the month, they can understand why the specialty is appealing for those who do choose to pursue it and end up liking their month spent there.

If you're the type of person who "hates" outpatient clinic, then Derm is definitely not for you. If you're the type of person who likes doing abdominal surgeries then yes, Derm is not for you. If you're the type of person who likes inpatient care, then of course, Derm is not for you.