Any experience with under-desk mounted holsters in the pain clinic?

[SommeRiver]

Thinking of having to stab someone with a kyoho needle should make everyone realize what an insane situation we're discussing. Good idea though Steve.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[lobelsteve]

I can hold 3 in each hand and do my Wolverine impression.

Some of is did not go straight through school to work as doctors.

 

[deleted480308]

Haha. Good for you man.

Let me just say, looting and damaging property is NOT a reason to shoot someone.

You got upset bc you stood up for yourself and justifiably twisted someone's finger and now you have an aversion to fighting and you're here discussing firearms in the clinic?

No offense man, please understand I'm not saying something bad about you but you're exactly the person I'm talking about...

You're theoretically in support of guns, as you should be IMO, but the moment you pull your piece under duress the boundaries of the encounter are lifted and you got upset after breaking a finger...If you're not going to put the gun to use you better not pull it out bc your "mob" is going to take it from you and beat you to death with it.

You SHOULD have a gun for self defense.

You SHOULD learn alternate techniques.

I’m going to disagree with your first statement, local laws vary

 

[SommeRiver]

I’m going to disagree with your first statement, local laws vary

I'm not making any statement based off laws...

No human being should kill another human being for looting their place of business.

Perhaps you have the legal authority to do so depending on your state or whatever...But as a F'ing human being you just shouldn't do it.

Someone breaks into MY HOME - They are shot twice in the chest and once in the brain in under 1.5 seconds.

 

[deleted480308]

I'm not making any statement based off laws...

No human being should kill another human being for looting their place of business.

Perhaps you have the legal authority to do so depending on your state or whatever...But as a F'ing human being you just shouldn't do it.

Someone breaks into MY HOME - They are shot twice in the chest and once in the brain in under 1.5 seconds.

We have a different moral opinion then.

 

[SommeRiver]

We have a different moral opinion then.

Yeah, you have an opinion but you're still NOT going to do it when it happens.

I promise you if a group of 28 ppl bust in your clinic you will call the police and perhaps you do your best to protect your business you're not gonna shoot another American in real life over your check in kiosk or computers.

Dude...You can say what you hope SOMEONE ELSE will do so they end up on FoxNews with a cool story, but you ain't doing zhit in real life under these circumstances.

 

[deleted480308]

Yeah, you have an opinion but you're still NOT going to do it when it happens.

I promise you if a group of 28 ppl bust in your clinic you will call the police and perhaps you do your best to protect your business you're not gonna shoot another American in real life over your check in kiosk or computers.

Dude...You can say what you hope SOMEONE ELSE will do so they end up on FoxNews with a cool story, but you ain't doing zhit in real life under these circumstances.

I’m pretty disinterested in the thinly veiled “you don’t have the guts” macho crap

 

[SommeRiver]

I’m pretty disinterested in the thinly veiled “you don’t have the guts” macho crap

Not guts...I'm not calling you a coward. Don't take the simple interpretation man.

I am saying you're far more intelligent and rational than someone who would kill another human being for destroying their front desk and ripping their computers out the wall.

 

[deleted480308]

Not guts...I'm not calling you a coward. Don't take the simple interpretation man.

I am saying you're far more intelligent and rational than someone who would kill another human being for destroying their front desk and ripping their computers out the wall.

It’s a judgement call based on details but I clearly lean a little more “korean shop owner in LA riots” than you do. Either way, appreciate the clarification and apologize for the misunderstanding

 

[Disciple]

My wife works in my clinic and my daughter and her friends are routinely in and out at the back door asking us for money to go get smoothies, etc. That's why I keep a firearm in the office.

A few years ago one of my MA's (married to a police officer and has a concealed weapon permit) was confronted by a disgruntled patient in the parking lot. She de-escalated the situation, but **** does come up every couple of years...

Had a couple of death threats. Nothing recent thankfully. One incident where armed security was hired for a month for one of the senior physicians.

Couple of incidents where a staff member was mugged outside the clinic, early am/evening.

Things have been good since being on my own and keeping a low profile.

I’ve gone back and forth about firearms over the years, but never felt I really needed one until recently.

Based on the number of 1st time gun buyers, I think many others are thinking the same.

 

[Ligament]

Had a couple of death threats. Nothing recent thankfully. One incident where armed security was hired for a month for one of the senior physicians.

Couple of incidents where a staff member was mugged outside the clinic, early am/evening.

Things have been good since being on my own and keeping a low profile.

I’ve gone back and forth about firearms over the years, but never felt I really needed one until recently.

Based on the number of 1st time gun buyers, I think many others are thinking the same.

The Democrats have destroyed their own argument:

Pre BLM Riots: You don't need to protect yourself! The Police will protect you!
Post BLM Riots: You don't need to protect yourself! And the Police will not protect you, either! (by the way, sucker, my taxpayer funded police security detail will sure as hell protect me)

Even the most dense leftist can see through this joke when angry BLM mobs are walking through their residential street late at night. Can you imagine ANYBODY living in these neighborhoods have a sense of serenity, security and hope for the future when they see this mob threatening them?

 

[Baron Samedi]

Buying a gun to keep yourself safe is like taking opioids for low back pain. It might make you feel better but there's no data supporting it and there's significant risk involved.

 

[BobBarker]

Most can’t get to and operate a gun quickly enough for it to make a difference. I have too many guns and would fumble through the manual of arms with anything but the Glocks or DA revolvers.

 

[SommeRiver]

A pt interaction that involves violence will most likely occur in an exam room, and that is obviously an outrageous idea to keep a firearm in an exam room.

The other place it would occur is in the parking lot after hours (carry pepper spray or a tazer).

If an ANTIFA member wearing a helmet and a bunch of equipment is who attacks you, the pepper spray may not work (they wear helmets all the time), and the tazer may not be as effective either (need decent contact).

In that case a knife being thrust and not slashed is your friend.

The ONLY way a gun is reliably put to use in the parking lot is either you keep it in your car and are able to retrieve it, or you carried on your person...which means you have to have kept it in your clinic in the first place.

If your parking lot is THAT dangerous, the best advice I have for you is to F'ing move...Jesus, are you kidding me?

 

[deleted480308]

A firearm at work should be on you or not at work. There are too many people in and out of rooms at most clinics for it be secret enough to be secure. I’m all for one concealed at work if your laws allow it and you obtain reasonable training

 

[Disciple]

The Democrats have destroyed their own argument:

Even the most dense leftist can see through this joke when angry BLM mobs are walking through their residential street late at night. Can you imagine ANYBODY living in these neighborhoods have a sense of serenity, security and hope for the future when they see this mob threatening them?

Agree. People aren’t stupid. Many of the recent 1st time gun buyers are not conservatives.

 

[Agast]

How I imagine it going down in my clinic after taking your advice:

 

[BobBarker]

A little spring assisted pocket knife like a kershaw leek is a better idea than kypho needles.

 

[Disciple]

Most here aren’t so much worried about crazy patients right now, as criminals. Who have always been there BTW, but have become emboldened.

As stated above, taser/pepper spray and BJJ may suffice for most clinics.

The firearms are needed more for the home, but, it’s been a crazy year, and who knows what’s going to happen in the next couple months, or even next week.

In drusso’s case, I do feel having a firearm in the clinic may be a good idea, even if only as a 2nd layer/2nd defensive option. If both he and his wife are working at the same location at the same time, have to decrease the chances of both parents dying.

 

[hyperalgesia]

In some cases, breaking out a miniature shrine of George Floyd with candles might be more effective than a weapon...

The objective is to disperse the criminals, not to make a principled stand against mental patients.

 

[10KHertz]

The looting And crime And hate And defunding And vandalism has only increased the suburban property values. Interesting how that social engineering works out...

 

[Ducttape]

tell them "hey, you know, I reconsidered. drop by the office Monday and ill give you a prescription. I cant now because I have to put it in through the computer. see ya then!"

 

[deleted993114]

View attachment 316382

Don't bring a gun into your office.

This is from a very pro-NRA guy.

 

[drusso]

Most here aren’t so much worried about crazy patients right now, as criminals. Who have always been there BTW, but have become emboldened.

As stated above, taser/pepper spray and BJJ may suffice for most clinics.

The firearms are needed more for the home, but, it’s been a crazy year, and who knows what’s going to happen in the next couple months, or even next week.

In drusso’s case, I do feel having a firearm in the clinic may be a good idea, even if only as a 2nd layer/2nd defensive option. If both he and his wife are working at the same location at the same time, have to decrease the chances of both parents dying.

@SSdoc33 criticized me for wanting to protect myself, but this kind of unlawful civil unrest is literally happening 5 minutes from one of my offices. I can't imagine just rolling over and taking it if I found myself in a situation where my life or property was under attack.

Clashes escalate in downtown Portland after Trump rally in Clackamas

This is the third consecutive weekend conservative protesters have staged rallies in the Portland area.

www.oregonlive.com

One Person Dead in Portland After Clashes Between Trump Supporters and Protesters (Published 2020)

A man affiliated with a right-wing group was shot and killed Saturday night. A caravan of supporters of President Trump had driven into downtown Portland.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Ligament]

@SSdoc33 criticized me for wanting to protect myself, but this kind of unlawful civil unrest is literally happening 5 minutes from one of my offices. I can't imagine just rolling over and taking it if I found myself in a situation where my life or property was under attack.

Clashes escalate in downtown Portland after Trump rally in Clackamas

This is the third consecutive weekend conservative protesters have staged rallies in the Portland area.

www.oregonlive.com

You are expected to submit to the peaceful democratic voter mob, as any good ally would. Also, this is not happening.

 

[Laryngospasm]

It is an underpowered 10mm weapon fired from (classically) a retrofitted 9mm chassis resulting in higher recoil than a 9mm and less tolerance to BS given the pressures are higher and the round is being delivered to the chamber on a feed ramp that leaves the head of the bullet unsupported and prone to misfeed.

It is less lethal than a .45 or 10mm, with slightly more capacity, but more powerful than a 9mm albeit with less capacity.

The overwhelming majority of hitters in the world prefer 9mm, and I don't know any contractors overseas carrying .40 (I know a lot of guys who got out of the military and went to Blackwater, Triple Canopy, etc). No one in the military uses that caliber that I know of...

I carried a .45 MEUSOC pistol, but that is changing to 9mm.

You're either going for capacity or killing, so pick one IMO.

I have put many .40 rounds in the air, and the first pistol I bought was a Glock 22.

Interesting points.. my px4 storm has never failed to feed. Thousand or so rounds. Recoil is very manageable.

 

[Candidate2017]

I promise you if a group of 28 ppl bust in your clinic you will call the police and perhaps you do your best to protect your business you're not gonna shoot another American in real life over your check in kiosk or computers.

If 28 people physically burst into your clinic and they're not from the local Girl Scout troop dropping off a dozen pallets of cookies, you are objectively in imminent threat of great bodily harm or death, especially if they refuse commands to leave and advance toward you.

This is not the same as an angry patient tossing papers about, or even someone spray painting the exterior or throwing rocks through the windows.

 

[SommeRiver]

Interesting points.. my px4 storm has never failed to feed. Thousand or so rounds. Recoil is very manageable.

Yeah, my old Glock and S&W in .40 did great too, but do notify me when you see competition shooters rolling up to the firing line with a .40 as their competition piece.

 

[SommeRiver]

If 28 people physically burst into your clinic and they're not from the local Girl Scout troop dropping off a dozen pallets of cookies, you are objectively in imminent threat of great bodily harm or death, especially if they refuse commands to leave and advance toward you.

This is not the same as an angry patient tossing papers about, or even someone spray painting the exterior or throwing rocks through the windows.

Leave the building.

 

[deleted480308]

Leave the building.

Absolutely agree from a self preservation standpoint if one has the opportunity to do so

absolutely no moral obligation to do so and shouldn’t be (some laws suck) any legal obligation to do so

 

[Laryngospasm]

I think wisest thing is to avoid confrontation unless not possible. Property can be replaced and lives can not. However regarding personal residences it gets a little cloudy especially if kids are around.

 

[Disciple]

You are expected to submit to the peaceful democratic voter mob, as any good ally would. Also, this is not happening.

I think you’re supposed to repent/prove your allegiance by lighting the match that burns down your property.

Like the woman eating at the diner, backed up against the wall by the mob.

 

[Disciple]

I think wisest thing is to avoid confrontation unless not possible. Property can be replaced and lives can not. However regarding personal residences it gets a little cloudy especially if kids are around.

What people are scared about is that person(s) could storm into your residence.

 

[SommeRiver]

Absolutely agree from a self preservation standpoint if one has the opportunity to do so

absolutely no moral obligation to do so and shouldn’t be (some laws suck) any legal obligation to do so

I understand your point.

 

[Disciple]

@SSdoc33 criticized me for wanting to protect myself, but this kind of unlawful civil unrest is literally happening 5 minutes from one of my offices. I can't imagine just rolling over and taking it if I found myself in a situation where my life or property was under attack.

Clashes escalate in downtown Portland after Trump rally in Clackamas

This is the third consecutive weekend conservative protesters have staged rallies in the Portland area.

www.oregonlive.com

One Person Dead in Portland After Clashes Between Trump Supporters and Protesters (Published 2020)

A man affiliated with a right-wing group was shot and killed Saturday night. A caravan of supporters of President Trump had driven into downtown Portland.

www.nytimes.com

The thing that causes anxiety is that no one knows where this peaks/plateaus.

And then Biden intends to ban semiautomatic rifles and limit magazine capacity nationwide. Guess we all gotta become John Wick with our handguns and reloads.

 

[Disciple]

Anyone consider one of these for the office?

Byrna | Best Non Lethal Self-Defense Products

One of the best defense products available is the Byrna SD, a legal, non-lethal self-defense weapon that fires pepper filled rounds up to 60 feet using CO2. Save lives without the risk of taking one. Empower yourself today!

byrna.com

Non lethal, but looks like an M&P Shield. Brandishing it might be enough to deter someone.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

I have to agree with those above that bringing a gun to the office probably wouldn't help. I own a 9mm glock which I store in a safe next to my bed but really only carry it to my farm. I brought it to the office one time when the staff asked me to because they were concerned about the first pt of that day.
He was requesting high-dose opioids which I don't typically prescribe and became irate with me when I refused. Most of the time, I can remain calm during a confrontation and can defuse it but I became anxious this time because I was carrying the gun. This anxiety caused the situation to escalate but fortunately, he left without incident. I mean really, what was I going to do with the gun, pull it out and shoot him? I would have much rather fought him if it came to that.

I also agree that learning some BJJ or MMA can be helpful. I wrestled and boxed in high school and have been in a few street fights when I was younger but I wish MMA was popular at that time. I trained in and sparred in MMA when I was older. Practicing is important but just getting the basics down can be helpful. You would be surprised what a few submission locks, what a proper stance, and knowing how to keep your balance can do for you.

I own the building which my office is in. Much of my livelihood is in this building and I have responsibilities to my tenants. I've asked a few friends of mine, all ex-military, to help me guard it in the event that things got out of control. They all agreed. However, I've decided if looting occurs to just let my office burn and to not guard it. It's a no-win situation and just not worth it and my insurance should cover the damages.

 

[Disciple]

I mean really, what was I going to do with the gun, pull it out and shoot him? I would have much rather fought him if it came to that.

Not me. Which is why I like the pepper spray gun above.

 

[epidural man]

Regarding the title of this thread - I really hope NO ONE has had "experience" with an under table holster in their clinic.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

Not me. Which is why I like the pepper spray gun above.

Picture this, you're in a 10 x 10' room and you're dealing with an angry pt. This situation is escalating and the pt is starting to get combative. Like most people, especially doctors as most are not comfortable or experienced with physical confrontation, you start getting ramped up. You can literally feel the adrenaline coursing through your veins. It feels cold and your thoughts begin to race. Despite the chilling feeling in your blood, you start getting flushed and red and the skin on the top of your forehead, where you used to have hair, begins to moisten. Because you're not accustomed to these feelings, your anxiety further increases and you can't think straight. Because you can't think correctly, the customary paternal confidence you exude as a doctor is gone and you're not able to get out the right words to attempt to de-escalate. The pt, who is only a few feet from you to begin with because of the size of the room, begins to advance. You feel like you can barely breathe but at the same time, you feel as if you're taking a thousand breaths per minute. He is inching closer to you and your chest is tightening up. It's difficult to retreat because of the size of the room and your heart pounds as the pt continues to threaten and invade your personal space.

With all this going on, you now remember you have your trusty weapon. You reach down to unholster it but having no muscle memory of drawing your weapon you fumble. As the pt sees your hand reaching down he jumps towards you and knocks you into the wall. As you're already at a disadvantage because your dominant hand is down, he starts landing haymakers. You both fall to the floor and you both grab your weapon and.......

No thank you. I'd rather take the chances and fight. I have zero experience drawing a weapon on another human but I do have at least some experience fighting. I'm not saying I'm the best street fighter out there but I think I can at least hold most people off until my staff can call 911, even if they get the best of me. Fortunately, most people don't have the experience or stamina to last very long in a fight.

 

[lobelsteve]

Picture this, you're in a 10 x 10' room and you're dealing with an angry pt. This situation is escalating and the pt is starting to get combative. Like most people, especially doctors as most are not comfortable or experienced with physical confrontation, you start getting ramped up. You can literally feel the adrenaline coursing through your veins. It feels cold and your thoughts begin to race. Despite the chilling feeling in your blood, you start getting flushed and red and the skin on the top of your forehead, where you used to have hair, begins to moisten. Because you're not accustomed to these feelings, your anxiety further increases and you can't think straight. Because you can't think correctly, the customary paternal confidence you exude as a doctor is gone and you're not able to get out the right words to attempt to de-escalate. The pt, who is only a few feet from you to begin with because of the size of the room, begins to advance. You feel like you can barely breathe but at the same time, you feel as if you're taking a thousand breaths per minute. He is inching closer to you and your chest is tightening up. It's difficult to retreat because of the size of the room and your heart pounds as the pt continues to threaten and invade your personal space.

With all this going on, you now remember you have your trusty weapon. You reach down to unholster it but having no muscle memory of drawing your weapon you fumble. As the pt sees your hand reaching down he jumps towards you and knocks you into the wall. As you're already at a disadvantage because your dominant hand is down, he starts landing haymakers. You both fall to the floor and you both grab your weapon and.......

No thank you. I'd rather take the chances and fight. I have zero experience drawing a weapon on another human but I do have at least some experience fighting. I'm not saying I'm the best street fighter out there but I think I can at least hold most people off until my staff can call 911, even if they get the best of me. Fortunately, most people don't have the experience or stamina to last very long in a fight.

Good choice. No training, no weapon.

For those who choose to carry, there are numerous training courses on this exact scenario.

 

[drusso]

Picture this, you're in a 10 x 10' room and you're dealing with an angry pt. This situation is escalating and the pt is starting to get combative. Like most people, especially doctors as most are not comfortable or experienced with physical confrontation, you start getting ramped up. You can literally feel the adrenaline coursing through your veins. It feels cold and your thoughts begin to race. Despite the chilling feeling in your blood, you start getting flushed and red and the skin on the top of your forehead, where you used to have hair, begins to moisten. Because you're not accustomed to these feelings, your anxiety further increases and you can't think straight. Because you can't think correctly, the customary paternal confidence you exude as a doctor is gone and you're not able to get out the right words to attempt to de-escalate. The pt, who is only a few feet from you to begin with because of the size of the room, begins to advance. You feel like you can barely breathe but at the same time, you feel as if you're taking a thousand breaths per minute. He is inching closer to you and your chest is tightening up. It's difficult to retreat because of the size of the room and your heart pounds as the pt continues to threaten and invade your personal space.

With all this going on, you now remember you have your trusty weapon. You reach down to unholster it but having no muscle memory of drawing your weapon you fumble. As the pt sees your hand reaching down he jumps towards you and knocks you into the wall. As you're already at a disadvantage because your dominant hand is down, he starts landing haymakers. You both fall to the floor and you both grab your weapon and.......

No thank you. I'd rather take the chances and fight. I have zero experience drawing a weapon on another human but I do have at least some experience fighting. I'm not saying I'm the best street fighter out there but I think I can at least hold most people off until my staff can call 911, even if they get the best of me. Fortunately, most people don't have the experience or stamina to last very long in a fight.

You have to train for this and I think it's a liability that most physicians have not.

 

[Baron Samedi]

If you're that worried, just get some pepper spray. Less risk overall, less property damage, less chance of killing someone who is psychiatrically unstable, less chance of accidentally killing yourself or staff members, less chance of getting your face plastered on the news.

 

[Ducttape]

yes, agree with scenario.

however, better than any fight is to de-escalate. most people do not want to fight. they want to be heard.

in a way, it is a lot harder to de-escalate than it is to have a physical or verbal confrontation, but it sure is a lot safer.

after all that time in the ER, I still need to work on my "skills"...

 

[TableMD]

1911. .45 cal.

however I insist on the double barrel model.

thanks

 

[drusso]

Patient accused of stabbing Pennsylvania Hospital doctor in face identified

A man is facing assault charges after he allegedly stabbed a doctor inside a Philadelphia hospital on Tuesday.

6abc.com

 

[lobelsteve]

Patient accused of stabbing Pennsylvania Hospital doctor in face identified

A man is facing assault charges after he allegedly stabbed a doctor inside a Philadelphia hospital on Tuesday.

6abc.com

So patient was not trying to do a gasserian on his doc?

 

[Ducttape]

knowing philadelphians, my guess is that the doctor was trying to convince the patient that it was a good idea to trade Wentz.

 

[specepic]

Pepper spray in clinic?

 

[drusso]

Police officers warn physicians to be prepared among growing patient attacks

Violence against healthcare workers has increased since COVID-19, leading to warnings from organizations like the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons. John

www.beckersphysicianleadership.com

“In 2018, the private ownership all-worker incidence rate for nonfatal occupational injuries and illnesses involving days away from work resulting from intentional injury by other person in the private healthcare and social assistance industry was 10.4 per 10,000 fulltime workers, compared to the all-worker incidence rate of 2.1. The health care and social service industries experience the highest rates of injuries caused by workplace violence and are 5 times as likely to suffer a workplace violence injury than workers overall”