Any point in joining the Army NG now?

[studocplsignore]

I am a first-year DO student at a private university, 22, and living at home with the parents. The tuition is, as expected, very high, so I have been looking at HPSP, FAP, and other programs as a result. I don't quite like the commitment for HPSP and FAP, and so have been looking into the Army National Guard as an option. I'm particularly interested in their HPLRP program, which I know starts earliest in PGY-2. However, as an OMS-1 now, is there any advantage to enlisting in the NG now as a medical student if I do not plan to take any stipend and thus incur no future service. An upperclassman friend mentioned it to me as an option, but I'm not sure what the significant advantages are.

From my research, it seems to basically be (1) you get a rank in the NG (2) you receive drillpay and GI Bill assistance (3) you're in the system in preparation for HPLRP in exchange for (1) going to officer training (2) drilling on the Flex Training schedule. Does that seem correct?

Also, as a medical student, can they deploy you while you are still in school? From what I have read, it seems like they can, which would, of course, really mess up my educational schedule. I would appreciate any help from people who have had this experience before. In essence, I'm wanting to know if there's any significant benefit from joining now, rather than in PGY-2. Thank you!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MedStud!]

I'm an MD student who just matched, and I am in the Army National Guard. Per Army regulation 601-25 you are non-deployable and exempt from active duty until completion of your residency. I already had 8 years prior service so for me 4 years med school + 5 years residency = up to 17 years non-deployable, and 3 more I can retire at 20. So for me it was a no brainer.

Here is the caveat... with all things in the military... if the s*** really hits the fan, they always reserve the right to change the policy. So if they absolutely needed you... they might try to deploy you. That being said... even with two concurrent wars going on in Iraq and Afghanistan I have never heard of them pulling medical students out of school or physicians out of residency to send them overseas. That is kind of like sending an infantryman before he has completed his infantry training. Plus, physicians are greatly needed in the Army. They are at about 40% strength right now and half of them are retirement age. It has been my impression that the National Guard bends over backwards for us, and the other soldiers harbor a disdain for us over this (plus they slap officer rank on you without any training). As prior enlisted I can't say I blame them... but the Army has to be flexible if they expect to retain physicians. And by the way... remember that "selective service" thingy all males 18 and over have to register for? Yup... that is "the draft." Just because we don't actively use it doesn't mean it wouldn't be used in a great time of need. So technically... they can deploy any male medical student regardless of military status.

I know there are other ways to sign up without the MDSSP stipend program. I know medical students that signed up for the standard 6 year active reserve 2 year IRR (8 year total). I bet there are other reserve contracts.... maybe 2 or 4 years? You will have to talk to a recruiter about the specifics. But the HPLRP is a great way to pay back loans. I'm not sure why more people don't do it. Medical students in general seem to be terrified of joining the military. Its good for us because as long as the significant need exists then they will continue to treat us well.

As far as the benefits you mentioned ((1) you get a rank in the NG (2) you receive drillpay and GI Bill assistance (3) you're in the system in preparation for HPLRP in exchange for (1) going to officer training (2) drilling on the Flex Training schedule): All of these are correct except for the GI Bill assistance. Its likely you will not qualify as you need at least 90 days of active duty service for it. I qualified because I had prior deployments while enlisted... but one of my fellow medical students tried to apply and he was rejected. You could look into it but I doubt it. The others are correct.

I say go for it. If you want to do it, its best to do it as soon as possible in medical school so you can start accruing years and benefits while in non-deployable status. Good luck.

 

[hchang9]

I'm also a DO student in the NG and opted out of the stipend program.

The only advantage of signing up early is to add time in service. You would start getting your drill pay earlier and add to your retirement. If you don't care about receiving drill pay immediately and have no plans of retiring in the NG, then there's no advantage of joining now compared to later in residency.
You can only receive HPLRP in PGY2 if you take the stipend, otherwise you have to wait until you finish residency.
You do get flexi training, but you might not need it. I basically get paid to go to drill and study the entire weekend. The military has no use for med students without qualifications. The commander leaves me alone as long as I don't cause any problems for him.
As a medical student you are not deployable. It's in an army policy memo. A med student has absolutely no qualifications. We would be more than useless in a deployment without finishing med school and residency.

All that said, if you're interested in the NG at all it might be a good idea to join now. Without taking the stipend, you're essentially nondeployable through your entire contract period. You can use this period of time to test out the waters to see if it's something you want to be a part of in the long run. It's like a test drive.

Hope this helps.

 

[notdeadyet]

Has this changed? When I last looked, one had to be a PGY-3 and In a critical warfare shortage list specialty to receive HPLRP.

The future of HPLRP going to be interesting. The critical warfare shortage list has started dropping specialties that qualify. My guess is that they may reduce the amount after a few years of peace. When I last checked the Navy Reserve never went above $50k for their flavor. I could see the Army reserve corps dropping back to that.

 

[studocplsignore]

Thank you for all your help. There is not too much information out there on the Army NG options, so I am happy to find people who have done this before.

All of these are correct except for the GI Bill assistance. Its likely you will not qualify as you need at least 90 days of active duty service for it. I qualified because I had prior deployments while enlisted... but one of my fellow medical students tried to apply and he was rejected. You could look into it but I doubt it. The others are correct.

I got that knowledge from this link, which has been a great resource. http://whitecoatinvestor.com/army-national-guard-physicians/ It says to use the Select Reserve GI Bill, which seems to come to 362/month and works with the National Guard.

You do get flexi training, but you might not need it. I basically get paid to go to drill and study the entire weekend. The military has no use for med students without qualifications. The commander leaves me alone as long as I don't cause any problems for him.

I had another question about this, are you paid for drill pay on the only the months you do drill, or every month? I ask because Flex Training usually results in less than 1 drill a month so I'm not sure how that affects such things.

I do like the idea of it being a test drive - ideally I would like to start HPLRP in PGY-2 and pay off my loans within six years. I do have a question about deployment though, I understand deployment will happen (hopefully when I am out of residency), but where does the NG usually get deployed to/where would I likely get deployed to? Would it be the same areas that army physicians get deployed to? Or somewhere different? Any information on that would be great!

 

[studocplsignore]

I have also read through http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r601_25.pdf regulations, and on Page 8, it says an AMEDD officer (which I assume I would be) as a medical student can delay entry into AD for 12 months, renewable for 48 months. I assume this is the provision that makes me 'non-deployable'? Thanks!

 

[notdeadyet]

I had another question about this, are you paid for drill pay on the only the months you do drill, or every month? I ask because Flex Training usually results in less than 1 drill a month so I'm not sure how that affects such things.

You only get paid for the months in which you drill.

As an aside, my experience was quite different from the others. How seriously units take your participation at drill is going to very a lot from state to state and from unit to unit. Even as a medical student, I was expected at every drill unless I had a very compelling reason not to be. I ended up drilling about nine months out of 12. And this was back when flexi training only required to be at one out of every three drills.

ideally I would like to start HPLRP in PGY-2 and pay off my loans within six years.

This isn't how it will work. You cannot start HPLRP until after you finish residency. The only exception is if you are taking the STRAP incentive program, which obligates you to two years of drilling for every one year of benefits. As of last year, if you were on strap, you could start HPLRP in your PGY three year, if you were in a specialty that is on the critical warfare shortage list.

But if you did this, you would not be paying off your STRAP obligation while you were taking HPLRP. Instance, if you were any four-year residency program, and took STRAP for your PGY three and PGY foUR year, you could take HPLRP in your PGY three and PGY four year. You also take HPLRP for another four years after this to pay off your loans. But only when you stopped taking HPLRP, four years after residency, does the clock starts ticking on your payback phase. So four years after finishing residency, when you stop HPLRP, it would another four years of duty to pay back your STRAP obligation?

Make sense? Alternately, you could not take STRAP, and just take HPLRP as soon as you finish residency.

I do have a question about deployment though, I understand deployment will happen (hopefully when I am out of residency), but where does the NG usually get deployed to/where would I likely get deployed to? Would it be the same areas that army physicians get deployed to? Or somewhere different? Any information on that would be great!

Yes, you would be deployed anywhere the Army had need for physicians.

 

[studocplsignore]

To notedeadyet:

Yes, sorry I was not more clear, I understood you needed to take STRAP with HPLRP if you did it starting /after/ PGY-2. The example you gave is actually listed in the link I posted above too, thank you for going over it again.

What type of things did you do while drilling? I assume it takes up your whole weekend, so would you drive up on Friday, drive back on Sunday? I will talk to the recruiter/other students in the problem what the drilling is like locally.

 

[MedStud!]

Thank you for all your help. There is not too much information out there on the Army NG options, so I am happy to find people who have done this before.

I got that knowledge from this link, which has been a great resource. http://whitecoatinvestor.com/army-national-guard-physicians/ It says to use the Select Reserve GI Bill, which seems to come to 362/month and works with the National Guard.

I may stand corrected. I thought you were referring to the Post-9/11 GI Bill which is pretty substantial. You may qualify for that version. If so... another good reason to join early.

 

[MedStud!]

What type of things did you do while drilling? I assume it takes up your whole weekend, so would you drive up on Friday, drive back on Sunday? I will talk to the recruiter/other students in the problem what the drilling is like locally.

I concur that what you do for your drill weekends will depend on the unit and the command. For example, we used to sit around and study... but then they thought they would put us to use. The set up our accounts so we can do PHA reviews at the nurses station (PHA is the annual physical health review for soldiers to identify medical issues which might prevent them from being deployed). This station is often a bottleneck at the detachment so by having us help there it helps out significantly. We are also offered significant flexibility in when we come to drill. The State Surgeon has ordered that our training as a physician comes first... so our unit commander lets us off whenever we need it. These things can be very different depending on what unit you are attached to. Be sure to meet with the commanders of the local units you might be attached to to see what they do for the weekend. If you got attached to an artillery or other combat unit you might be spending your weekends trudging through the woods and firing weapons! That's a lot of fun... bu not when you have a big exam coming up next week...

It would also be wise to ask if you could talk to the State Surgeon as well before you join and make sure that the Guard won't interfere with your training. He/She has the ultimate power over the medical detachments of the state and will likely have your best interests at heart. I will be moving out of state in a year and it is likely I will be flying back here to drill because I know that our State Surgeon is committed to us.

 

[hchang9]

You can get chapter 1606 GI Bill for now. I think you have to complete BOLC before you qualify for that though. If you get deployed later on, you can upgrade to post 9/11 GI Bill to pay for another advanced degree or transfer it to your spouse or kids.

Units vary and may let your study all day. You can also attend a medical conference, volunteer at a VA hospital or military treatment facility, or other stuff too that I cant remember in place of attending drill . The policy memo states that you have to attend drill at least once a quarter and AT at least once every other year.

 

[studocplsignore]

I will contact the State Surgeon about that as well, thanks again for telling me about that, I would not have known otherwise.

Do you know how long BOLC is? I am fairly booked this summer with research + overseas and I definitely do not want to cut into USMLE/COMLEX time. Is it possible to do during one of the breaks? Thanks!

 

[notdeadyet]

The policy memo states that you have to attend drill at least once a quarter and AT at least once every other year.

They revised this policy memo. The new policy is that you must drill at least every other month now.

 

[notdeadyet]

Do you know how long BOLC is? I am fairly booked this summer with research + overseas and I definitely do not want to cut into USMLE/COMLEX time. Is it possible to do during one of the breaks? Thanks!

Yeah, contacting the State Surgeon is a good tip.

BOLC is 27 days. They offer it about five or six times per year.

 

[MedStud!]

Yeah, contacting the State Surgeon is a good tip.

BOLC is 27 days. They offer it about five or six times per year.

Yeah... just to warn OP; commanders of medical detachments are not always physicians. They could be psychologists, PAs, nurses... that may harbor bitterness or disdain for physicians. That is why it is good to ensure the State Surgeon is behind you. They are always physicians and understand your situation. If they have your back then no officer in the state will mess with you... or its their A** MR POSTMAN!

And BOLC is somewhat a joke I hate to say... but if they required medical professionals to endure true officer OCS training then there would be very few medical officers. I know that now you cannot graduate BOLC unless you have passed the APFT as a hard and fast rule. I was the last class that was not absolutely required to pass it. I mean... no wonder enlisted harbor disdain for us? There was a time when you would be commissioned as an officer with no intensive training and not even having to have passed a physical fitness test. But you do have to pass it now so be sure to find out the requirements for the APFT for you. You will have to run 2 miles in a certain amount of time, and do a certain amount of pushups and situps in a 2 minute period. Med students aren't the epitomy of fitness themselves so if you don't think you can meet those requirements be sure to start working on it.

 

[pre-med444]

If you take mdssp and strap can you still qualify for the loan repayment (hplrp) and bonuses (special pay program)? Thanks. Basically in what way can I get the most incentives overall. I am not afraid of a large obligation. Could I do just strap and get hplrp + special pay after etc. What combinations works the best? Also, if I join regular guard during med school can I go into strap program no problem?

 

[notdeadyet]

pre-med444- Do not make multiple posts. Your question has been answered in one of your threads. Do not continue posting the same question to all NG-related threads. It is a violation of TOS.