Any tips on getting through Organic?

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MJB

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Ok, so I got my A in Chem. II last semester to "cover up" that ugly scene on my transcript from college days gone by, and have moved on to taking Organic this semester...

Let's just say that between the lecture, 2 three hour labs/week, and about 50-60 hours of work per week, I'm a little intimidated...

Any tips on the best way to learn this stuff? I'm not real great at reading a textbook and picking things up...

Any help appreciated...I was starting to miss this place! :)

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Congrats on your A!

I learned orgo the best by reading through the text first to understand what is beight taught, then by doing literally ALL of the end-of-chapter problems to really hammer in the comprehension. Our class text had in-chapter exercises as well, which helped to break up the reading into manageable chunks.

I think that success in chemistry requires a combination of bio-like memorization ability and physics-like reasoning ability. It's my favorite science by far, which may explain my motivation for doing all of those problems -- but it was the same strategy advised by the professor.

I'll tell you what doesn't work. You won't get anywhere if you just sit for lecture or read the book without doing the problems. You also can't just do the problems and peek back in the chapter for reference; I tried that once, believe me. :)
 
blee said:
Congrats on your A!

I learned orgo the best by reading through the text first to understand what is beight taught, then by doing literally ALL of the end-of-chapter problems to really hammer in the comprehension. Our class text had in-chapter exercises as well, which helped to break up the reading into manageable chunks.

I think that success in chemistry requires a combination of bio-like memorization ability and physics-like reasoning ability. It's my favorite science by far, which may explain my motivation for doing all of those problems -- but it was the same strategy advised by the professor.

I'll tell you what doesn't work. You won't get anywhere if you just sit for lecture or read the book without doing the problems. You also can't just do the problems and peek back in the chapter for reference; I tried that once, believe me. :)

I'll second all of this. Also definitely buy the solution manual and check your answers.(I've said this alot of times, it's easy in orgo to get an answer that looks right but is completely wrong. Sorry, half the time you can't just check units.) Also when you read get used to taking notes in the margin. Summarize the paragraph, argue with it, reason through it and see if you can make what the author says simpler.(Which I ended up doing with disturbing regularity.) Hell, once you get decent you can often sum up a paragraph or section by putting in the margins "This is just an application of a concept chapter x section y."

One thing that may take time to get used to is that organic is way more about geometry than algebra.(Which took me awhile to get used to.) Oh, one thing about questions.(And this is a repeat) After you do each question ask yourself "Why the hell did he give me that question? What was the author trying to teach me?" I guess what I'm saying is the faster you "Get into the author's head" the better off you'll be.
 
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Well said, and you bring up another big big point.

If you do nothing else this semester, make sure you REALLY, honestly understand the material presented in the first semester of orgo! The second semester is typically reaction-heavy and mechanism-heavy. If you know what you're doing in the first half of the text, you will be able to apply the principles to the second half and have a much easier time remembering everything. If, on the other hand, your knowledge base is shaky, you will have to resort more often to rote memorization, which may not serve you well when there are dozens upon dozens of variations on a single theme.
 
Well, I'm planning to work a bunch of problems tonight in prep for a quiz tomorrow. One of the biggest problems I'm having thus far is recalling info from Chem. I (took it years ago)...

The other problem is that I can work all the problems I want, but there are very select few that come with solutions, and the way I learn best is to work them to my ability, then look at the answer, and then see why I missed it, etc...

Hopefully I can find more solutions to the problems in the chapters!

I don't just want to survive, I wanna nail this course!

Lab sucks! :)
 
Also, thanks for the congrats on the A in Chem. II...will go a long way toward getting the nasty taste of the F I got when I took it for the first time..

The plan right now is to take this Org. Class and take the MCAT this summer...and apply to KCUMB...if I get in there, I'm in, and just have to take BioChem and Phys. II...If not, I'll still take those courses and re-apply for '08 admission to several other schools...

Right now, I think if I could get into KCUMB for '07 and just go with it, it would work out well for my life situation!

Did any of you take the Kaplan course? My wife is thinking I should do that this summer.
 
Look around to see if your textbook has a solutions manual; most organic texts do. Buy it -- it is worth the money.
 
blee said:
Look around to see if your textbook has a solutions manual; most organic texts do. Buy it -- it is worth the money.

I will check into this tonight...I'm wondering if the answers might be on the CD...

It's a text by Wade.


Again, thanks for the tips.
 
MJB said:
I will check into this tonight...I'm wondering if the answers might be on the CD...

It's a text by Wade.


Again, thanks for the tips.
We used Wade as well, and the publisher definitely offers a solution manual for it. In fact, our bookstore purchased a shrinkwrapped package that bundled the book with the manual. It's an excellent text, BTW.
 
All great advice. Here is a copy of a post that I wrote in the MCAT subforum:

************

My advice to students is to approach studying organic like you'd approach studying a foreign language. Some students mistakenly believe that they can memorize their way through the course. But this is impossible, because there are an infinite number of possible reactions out there. You do have to learn the vocabulary and "grammar" (mechanisms) of organic chem, which requires some memorization. But the real test of fluency in these types of subjects is whether you can now take what you've learned and apply it to new reactions (or make up new sentences) that you've never seen before.

That kind of ability can only be achieved by working a lot of problems, just as learning to speak another language can only be done if you spend a lot of time practicing speaking it. Ideally, you should spend an hour every day studying organic if possible. Forgo re-reading the chapters in favor of working every problem in your book (yes, all of them, even the challenge ones) and really try to work them out yourself before reading your solutions guide. Ask your TA for help as needed, attend all of the problem sessions and classes, and go to your professor's office hours every week. Students that put in this kind of effort invariably do well come finals time. Plus you have the added bonus that the prof will actually know your name and can write you a letter when you go to apply for med school.

P.S. If you run into trouble, you can always check this thread for posts on various organic chemistry topics, as well as ask us questions in the Organic Chemistry Question Thread. You can also visit MCATpearls, a free on-line resource for students studying for the MCAT.
 
In addition to the other great advice, make sure you work and re-work any previous exams that your professor provides. You need a game plan for your particular professor and this is the best way to figure out how they will test. Also if you are having any problems try an alternate textbook as well. Using 2 textbooks really helped me because one was good at explaining the concepts and the other was good with mechanisms and reactions. Orgo is tough but the curve is usually pretty generous so if you can avoid huge mistakes you should be able to get an A.
 
One thing I forgot to mention that should encourage you to do your homework. At least at our school a couple of problems on every test were just homework problems.(Yes, literally straight out of the textbook.) You did your homework you got some really easy points.(Don't know if it's true of alot of schools but it was true here and these were assigned problems.) Oh, Q's idea of pacing really applies to any class.(I found that cramming was generally a BAD idea.)

Oh, and learn how to push electrons.(So much of orgo makes so much more sense when you get that skill.)
 
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Thank you all so much for your tips...I've just arrived home from Lab, and plan to go work homework problems in prep for my quiz tomorrow....

The things I'm up against that concern me.

I've got a GREEN instructor...this is his first time teaching full time...just finished his PhD and a little post doc work....so, no history to know what to expect...

He acted like he didn't want me getting ahold of a solutions manual, but was more than willing to offer answers if asked.

My biggest fear is not having the time/energy to devote as much energy to this class as it's going to take...Working full time and going to lab 2 nights a week is wearing me out already! :) But, I think I'm adjusting.

There is NO CURVE...90% or above...or no A.
 
One thing that will save you lots of time - don't just memorize every single reaction. Instead, make sure you understand the basic mechanisms. If you do this, you can predict what is going to occur based on your knowledge of how certains species will react with each other. There are a lot of similar reactions in chemistry, especially thos involving carbonyls.

Good luck!
 
Organic is a whole new ballgame. Two things I figured out (which I wish I had figured out earlier)
1) it's very visual. Does you school provide you with model kits? If not, you may want to buy one. Here's a link: Kits on Amazon
2) Flashcards. I had never used them before, and I made them for each reaction and took them everywhere. That way I could study in little chunks ... waiting for the bus, waiting for my bagel to toast, etc.

Also, here's a great book for lab:
Organic Chem Lab Survival Guide

It's going to take time to get used to organic. Make sure you have ample time to study, read, and review, making sure it all makes sense. It's a lot to take in. Don't forget to breathe!
 
prana_md said:
Also, here's a great book for lab:
Organic Chem Lab Survival Guide

It's going to take time to get used to organic. Make sure you have ample time to study, read, and review, making sure it all makes sense. It's a lot to take in. Don't forget to breathe!
That *is* a great book. I recommend it to my lab students, too. :thumbup:
 
MJB said:
He acted like he didn't want me getting ahold of a solutions manual, but was more than willing to offer answers if asked.

Hopefully that is because he will be taking his exam questions straight out of the book!
 
MJB said:
I've got a GREEN instructor...this is his first time teaching full time...just finished his PhD and a little post doc work....so, no history to know what to expect...


There is NO CURVE...90% or above...or no A.

Same boat here. Young teacher, very tough grader. NO CURVE WHATSOEVA!!!!! :mad:
I did good in lab (saved my @$$) and ended up with B in Orgo1 - I am taking Orgo 2 right now ...same teacher :eek: :thumbdown:
 
MJB said:
Any tips on the best way to learn this stuff? I'm not real great at reading a textbook and picking things up...

Three words...

Follow the electrons!!!!!

If you learn arrow pushing and use it always, you won't have to do a lot of memorization. You won't have to learn all the tetrahedral intermediates for a reaction because you can draw them yourself.

Also, realize that organic is very visual. Draw everything out-- learn to use different projections and get a good feel for them.

Remember that if you want to know whether or not a reaction will go to completion, a large percentage of the time either Ph or steric hindrance will be the culprit. Learn those concepts well and spend some time on electronegativity.

Most of all, though, you should study all of the nomenclature very, very well.
 
MJB said:
Ok, so I got my A in Chem. II last semester to "cover up" that ugly scene on my transcript from college days gone by, and have moved on to taking Organic this semester...

Let's just say that between the lecture, 2 three hour labs/week, and about 50-60 hours of work per week, I'm a little intimidated...

Any tips on the best way to learn this stuff? I'm not real great at reading a textbook and picking things up...

Any help appreciated...I was starting to miss this place! :)

draw structures constantly. it makes it go into the brain easier. it sounds like a simplified answer but organic is visual/spatial. good luck.
 
I really hope this course gets more interesting in a hurry...thus far, this stuff is BORING, almost as bad as Gen. Chem...

Ordered the solutions guide, and am struggling to make this stuff interesting. All I'm askin' for is some practical application! Is that too much to ask?

:)
 
Drawing structures, doing problems and making those complicated two-sided, color-coded flashcards!
 
MJB said:
I really hope this course gets more interesting in a hurry...thus far, this stuff is BORING, almost as bad as Gen. Chem...

Ordered the solutions guide, and am struggling to make this stuff interesting. All I'm askin' for is some practical application! Is that too much to ask?

:)
If not this semester, you'll see why all of this random crap is so important in the spring. :)
 
To be honest with you Blee, if all goes well, I'll never see Org. II...just Physics II and BioChem...but we'll see.

Played around with the model kit a little bit tonight...not enough of the little white ones (Hydrogen) in the kit.

I really appreciate all the help...had the first quiz on Friday, and I think the only thing I might have screwed up was the resonance forms question...
 
I did not read the book at all....just never missed the lectures and studied only handouts and lecture notes...its it.....I am not telling that it was easy, but I had patients and forced myself instead of going out...study at home....it was only 4.5 months....it also depends on who is your professor and his demandings....mine was preatty cool...we had pretests sample questions and open lab....english is my second language, I live in San Diego only for 4 years.....and believe me dear, if I passed this class...you will do it just fine.....let me know if you need anything else!!!
 
Especially with organic chemistry, it really depends where you take it.

At some schools, all you do is memorize reactions and bascially regurgitate them.

At other schools memorizing reactions is the least of your worries. You have to basically construct molecules on exams that takes ~15 creative synthesis steps. You also have to know all the intricisies of molecular reactions, stereochem., etc. And on exams- there's no such thing as multiple choice or anything even close to it.

So my advice would be to take it at a school where you just have to memorize reactions. It is good practice for lots of cognitive skills, however lots of successful med students were horrible at orgo- at least in the way their school tested it. Oh yeah, and orgo is pretty easy on the MCAT, what's left of orgo on the MCAT anyways, hehe.

To study? Know the reactions and practice synthesis, non-stop.

Good luck!
 
MJB said:
Ok, so I got my A in Chem. II last semester to "cover up" that ugly scene on my transcript from college days gone by, and have moved on to taking Organic this semester...

Let's just say that between the lecture, 2 three hour labs/week, and about 50-60 hours of work per week, I'm a little intimidated...

Any tips on the best way to learn this stuff? I'm not real great at reading a textbook and picking things up...

Any help appreciated...I was starting to miss this place! :)

Hi there,
First of all, stop the self-sabotaging behavior such as " I am not real great at reading a textbook and picking things up..." In medical school and later in residency, you had better learn to pick up knowledge by any route or you will not be practicing medicine.

Second, approach organic chemistry to master the material. Organic has very little to do with anything other than organic and it must be mastered for application. You need to be familiar enough with the concepts to apply them to synthetic schemes. Organic is not so much memorization as know and be able to apply.

For my synthetic schemes, I started with the end material and worked backwards. I also knew oxidation/reduction schemes very well and could apply them to organic reactions. I worked all of the problems and rechecked my solutions by working backwards and forwards.

In the beginning, I spent some time with the TA and professor during office hours but once I got the "hang" of working organic chemistry problems, I found that I spent less time in the office but came in for a "knowledge check" before every exam. I also did not cram.

The labs were golden for me and greatly helped with the chapter and exam material. Organic labs reinforced the classroom material for me. I also resisted the temptation to go to tons of outside books and generally stayed with my text. If you must use an outside source, get a recommendation from your professor and use only one. Organic Chemistry is fairly time-consuming and you do not have time to look at twenty books and get your problems done too.

Finally, LEARN this material! You have to have a solid working knowlege of organic chemistry for the MCAT. I don't care if you have an A average in Organic, you have to be able to apply this knowledge to problems presented on the MCAT and on exams.

One of the ways that I got through Organic (with a 98% average) was that I practically wanted to make the best gin in Washington, DC. I learned to synthesize anything with an OH group attached in anyway. Turns out that this was a very good strategy for someone like me (not carbon-friendly). I made each test a competition between me and the professor. There was nothing that he could put on that exam that I could not figure out. I might not have been "carbon-friendly" but I was at home with any kind of OH group.

Put any of your past performances in any other chemistry courses behind you and tackle Organic for what it is. It is nothing more than another level of chemistry that needs to be mastered. Stop labeling yourself as "not good" at anything that has to do with academics. You have to be a good student to get into medical school. Academics can be mastered by anyone with practice. Also, do not rely on or attempt to analyze what you perceive is the teaching ability of the professor (waste of time). The material is there for you to learn and this can be done in spite of the professor. I never cared if the devil himself was lecturing, I focused on the material presented and how that could be integrated into and expanded upon in my knowledge base.

Finally, put all of your energy into your coursework and nothing else because there is nothing else. You are there to learn so take advantage of this opportunity. You get one shot so make the most of it.

njbmd :)
 
Thanks for the tips...the thing bothering me is that I'm having trouble with the seemingly simple stuff, but seem to "get" the more advanced stuff..

For instance, I'm having trouble getting it through my skull what the difference is between sp, sp2, and sp3 hybridization...and how you recognize each of those...

Wish the stinkin' solutions manual would get here.
 
MJB said:
Thanks for the tips...the thing bothering me is that I'm having trouble with the seemingly simple stuff, but seem to "get" the more advanced stuff..

For instance, I'm having trouble getting it through my skull what the difference is between sp, sp2, and sp3 hybridization...and how you recognize each of those...

Wish the stinkin' solutions manual would get here.
orbital hybridization ("one of the biggest lies in introductory chemistry," quipped my orgo professor) is actually covered first in gen chem. If you're being stymied by this topic, you might find more success looking it up in a general chemistry text; most orgo books will simply assume you know it and offer only a token review.
 
Hybridization is very simple once you have a good text explain it to you. Many books do a horrible job at explaining it to you.

Get the EK orgo book, it does a great job of explaining it in half a page.
 
blee said:
orbital hybridization ("one of the biggest lies in introductory chemistry," quipped my orgo professor) is actually covered first in gen chem. If you're being stymied by this topic, you might find more success looking it up in a general chemistry text; most orgo books will simply assume you know it and offer only a token review.


This is my next step...read through it in the Wade text last night and just beat my head against the wall...so I'm going back to my Gen. Chem text tonight, and I think it will help much more...does a very good job of explaining these things I've noticed...and that's what I used for my first quiz...

Part of my problem, I'm convinced, is that I haven't had Gen. Chem I in about 10-11 years...and that's a big part of what we're covering in class right now...

Just gonna keep pluggin'...quiz this friday, test next Wed.
 
MJB said:
This is my next step...read through it in the Wade text last night and just beat my head against the wall...so I'm going back to my Gen. Chem text tonight, and I think it will help much more...does a very good job of explaining these things I've noticed...and that's what I used for my first quiz...

Part of my problem, I'm convinced, is that I haven't had Gen. Chem I in about 10-11 years...and that's a big part of what we're covering in class right now...

Just gonna keep pluggin'...quiz this friday, test next Wed.
Ooh, didn't know you were that far removed from gen chem. Orgo is cumulative from gen chem to some extent, particularly in the first few weeks. In some ways it reminds me of calculus and how that discipline draws upon all of the maths below it -- algebra, geometry, trig, etc. My first orgo midterm was MUCH easier to swallow after having learned (and mastered) gen chem during the summer session just before the fall semester. Keep your gen chem text handy; you may need it again soon!
 
You have NO idea how relieved I was in lecture yesterday to finally see some familiar stuff when the prof. said "this should be review"! I just took Chem. II last semester, so this stuff is still fresh, but a lot of the stuff from the first few chapters seems to be all Chem. I review! Been a rough first few weeks! :)
 
MJB said:
Thanks for the tips...the thing bothering me is that I'm having trouble with the seemingly simple stuff, but seem to "get" the more advanced stuff..

For instance, I'm having trouble getting it through my skull what the difference is between sp, sp2, and sp3 hybridization...and how you recognize each of those...

Wish the stinkin' solutions manual would get here.

Ok, I had a rule of thumb which worked most of the time.(I think for C, O, N only. I forget if it works for ions though) Basically you counted how many "things" were attached to an atom.(A thing being either another atom or a lone pair.) A carbon with SP hybridization has 2 things stuck to it, SP2 has 3, and sp3 has 4.
 
I meant to get on hear and thank those of you that gave advice profusely...last week, after finally getting the solutions manual and actually having some time to read through the chapters, etc...I had a sort of "awakening"...

The guy teaching this class has a LONG way to go before he's ever going to be a great "teacher" (that's the sad part about any PhD being allowed to instruct", but I think he'll be fine...

I've just accepted the fact that I will have to self teach on almost everything and that lecture periods do little but confuse me.

Going into the first Test last Friday, I felt VERY good because he had stated the test would 'reflect the sample tests given out'...Let's just say it didn't, but I think I probably still got a B...I'll find out tomorrow.

I think it's going to be ok, and some of the stuff is finally starting to have some practical meaning, so it won't be so mundane...

Can't believe I had so much trouble getting that hybridization stuff through my thick skull! Seems I had a mind block of some sort going on!

:)
 
MJB said:
Got the A on the first test! Very happy!

Barely got it, and thank God for bonus points! Oh well...just need to keep it up!
Great job!
 
It felt pretty good...Considering I never had to study much in college the first time around. I worked my butt off to get that A...and the worst part is, I gave up quite a few points on silly mistakes..

Oh well...just needed the A. Some of the young'uns went over 100 with the bonus points.
 
MJB said:
Just confirmed....A in Organic.

This is helping my GPA in big ways.

Time to hit Kaplan hard this summer.

It was funny to read back over this thread.
Just an A? :D j/k Congratulations!!! All that worrying was for nothing. Good luck with MCAT. :luck:
 
MJB said:
Just confirmed....A in Organic.

This is helping my GPA in big ways.

Time to hit Kaplan hard this summer.

It was funny to read back over this thread.
GREAT JOB!!! :)
 
I think having flashcards is a great way to study, because you can do it in small chunks. So 1, it doesn't feel overwhelming, and 2, you are constantly reviewing, which is a great way to learn.
 
Thank you folks. You all have been a great help over the past year!

This was the class that I was using to guage whether or not I really had it in me to do well in school again. It was a real challenge working full time and taking this thing and dealing with everything! I know I have a ways to go at this point, but I have a lot of confidence right now.

The 10 hours of Chemistry A work that I have achieved has raised my GPA at least a tenth of a point over the last year...I just need to try to get that BCPM GPA up as much as possible in case I'm not fortunate enough to get in this year.

Kaplan Diagnostic coming up soon.

I took AAMC test 3 in a roundabout way and was not completely satisfied with the results..I have a lot of work to do in the PS and BS sections.
 
this thread will definitely cure my chemophobia ;)
 
PRACTICE, PRACTICE PRACTICE!

In no other class in undergrad is this more important. Because there are so many reactions to digest and memorize, the best thing is to be able to instantly recognize a certain class of reactions and then know how they react. Do hundreds of problems and then do hundreds more.

I actually found studying for Organic to be a pleasant experience, mostly. It was like putting together a jigsaw puzzle.
 
Hello, Everyone!

I read this post and thought I would put in my two cents. When I took Ochem a few years back, I found some videos to be EXTREMELY helpful. The title of the video series is called "Standard Deviants," and they make educational videos and DVD's for almost any subject in math, science, English, etc. You can check out their website at http://www.sdlearn.com/default.asp and click on science then organic chemistry. I know you might be thinking that wathcing videos is childish, but these are absolutely great! They take you step by step through all the basics, nomencalture, all the reactions, etc. in a fun, easy to follow format. I think they are the perfect at-home study aid. If you don't want to purchase them (Amazon has them) check your school or public library. These videos were so popular among students at my college that there was always a waitlist at the library to check them out. Hope this helps!
 
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