Any1 know anything about this "University"?

[walt55054life]

Whats the word on.....CUNY John Jay College of Criminal Justice and their PhD Clinical Forensic Psychology program-its very very new it appears?


Here is the website for easier access it appears they are in conjunction with the CUNY Graduate Center-is this considered a professional school??
http://www.jjay.cuny.edu/academics/743.php

Thanks again,
Walt

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[paramour]

Whats the word on.....CUNY John Jay College of Criminal Justice and their PhD Clinical Forensic Psychology program-its very very new it appears?


Here is the website for easier access it appears they are in conjunction with the CUNY Graduate Center-is this considered a professional school??
http://www.jjay.cuny.edu/academics/743.php

Thanks again,
Walt

Program just started accepting students in '04, so newish. In the meantime, they're not APA-accredited, so I wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot pole.

 

[walt55054life]

Program just started accepting students in '04, so newish. In the meantime, they're not APA-accredited, so I wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot pole.

However, they are in the process of requiring APA accreditation and if you look into their data on intern/externships it doesn't seem completely bad. http://www.jjay.cuny.edu/academics/2123.php
My current undergrad school ECU is seeking accreditation and is one of the top schools in the country (at least the East) for clinical HEALTH psychology

 

[paramour]

"Seeking" takes time and doesn't guarantee that they have will be granted accreditation by the time you graduate, if ever. I personally would not chance it. Search the forums for previous discussions re: attending non-APA accredited programs.

I am uncertain the relevance of your undergrad institution's accreditation status to the current discussion re: John Jay and/or APA-accreditation.

 

[walt55054life]

"Seeking" takes time and doesn't guarantee ..........
I am uncertain the relevance of your undergrad institution's accreditation status to the current discussion re: John Jay and/or APA-accreditation.

I understand completely, and will actually find from APA a current/established timeline for John Jay. I just noticed that of the few students they have had it appears most have had paid APA accredited internships.

I agree w/ not to chance it, but sometimes that's all we have is a chance (all the mixed emo's I have about being accepted into a PhD program-ha)

 

[paramour]

I understand completely, and will actually find from APA a current/established timeline for John Jay. I just noticed that of the few students they have had it appears most have had paid APA accredited internships.

I agree w/ not to chance it, but sometimes that's all we have is a chance (all the mixed emo's I have about being accepted into a PhD program-ha)

If you look at the stats, their overall match rate was 75%, with the last year being at 66%. I would not want to make any decisions based on so few cohorts, but I also would want to know why two of their students did not match in that last year. It could have been pure misfortune or something else. Unfortunately, I would not want to conjecture regardless due to the newness of the program.

In the meantime, you also have a chance to apply to how many other programs out there that are accredited?

I remain by my original statement that I would not apply to a non-APA-accredited program.

G'luck with whatever your decision may be.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

IIRC, John Jay has some solid forensic researchers. I wouldn't attend a program until it was APA-acred, as acred. is 100% until they get actual approval. I am not sure if they are purely a forensic psychology Ph.D. program....which may pose a problem. I know some other forensic only programs attempted to get accredited, though I'm not sure if they were able to get it.

 

[walt55054life]

IIRC, John Jay has some solid forensic researchers. I wouldn't attend a program until it was APA-acred, as acred. is 100% until they get actual approval. I am not sure if they are purely a forensic psychology Ph.D. program....which may pose a problem. I know some other forensic only programs attempted to get accredited, though I'm not sure if they were able to get it.

Well, the school is actually called John Jay College of Criminal Justice, but they offer two PhDs: 1 as a clinical forensics psych and the 2nd as a experimental forensics psych....my other questions was is this a professional school, but it appear it is not....thanks for the input

 

[VeggieDelight]

While I would also advise strongly against any non-accredited program, those like CUNY John Jay and CUNY Queens Neuropsych might be worth considering for some. They are not well-rounded generalist programs (which may be the reason why their accreditation is up in the air), but they are among the top in their respective specialty fields. Especially if research is your goal, these programs deserve a look. Additionally, I understand that to be licensed in NY, you need only to graduate from a (state certified) PhD program in NY, so APA accred. is not essential if you are sure you want to live in NY state long-term. Of course, this has no bearing on whether or not you will secure an internship.

 

[paramour]

IIRC, John Jay has some solid forensic researchers. I wouldn't attend a program until it was APA-acred, as acred. is 100% until they get actual approval. I am not sure if they are purely a forensic psychology Ph.D. program....which may pose a problem. I know some other forensic only programs attempted to get accredited, though I'm not sure if they were able to get it.

+1. When I was applying back in my young'un years, I actually remember looking at John Jay and really, really wanting to apply due to my research/clinical interests and knowing *some* of the research conducted there. Unfortunately, they were not an accredited program, and they are not at the present time either. This knocked them off the list for me. Another program that was either forensic or had similar forensic clinical/research interests that I had considered was Sam Houston, which I believe also did not have accreditation status at that particular time--although I think that they finally obtained it a few years ago (or maybe it was just their general clinical program that received accreditation? I honestly do not recall, as it has been so long).

Regardless, both programs had strong researchers that I would have loved to work with due to my interests, but I immediately knocked both of my list for consideration due to the lack of accreditation. I had no desire to chance it when there are other programs available that are accredited.

One could gamble that one *might* live in the same area for the rest of one's life and not need that pesky accreditation, but I would not be comfortable geographically restricting my future employment options in today's state. Yeah, New York may seem like a large area, but what happens when you still cannot find a job, you find a job offer that you would prefer to have in an out-of-state area, or you get married and your partner wants you to relocate elsewhere? There are no guarantees either way, and I like my options.

 

[FadedC]

John Jay certainly has a good reputation, but that doesn't necesarily mean that they will ever be APA accredited. There are a lot of factors that come into play and my understanding is that it can be hard or impossible for programs with less focus on clinical and more focus on something like forensics or neuropsych to become accredited. Programs will always be motivated to spin their accreditation proccess as if they are about to be accepted any day no matter what though.

And yeah Queens Neuro is in a similar boat of being a school with a good reputation that may never be APA accred. Both John Jay and Queens have low internship match rates compared to APA schools, though they are probably higher then would be expected from non APA.

 

[paramour]

Hey Walt, I just noticed your post on the WAMC thread. With your recent consideration of master's degrees and your interest in John Jay, have you considered applying to their master's program in forensic psych? Their minimum GRE score is 1000, so you should be set to go there. They have thesis, practicum, or thesis/practicum tracks available, which allows you to tailor the degree to your needs to some extent, which may be a bonus.

 

[walt55054life]

If you don't graduate from a APA accredited school then you can't get licensed anywhere outside of that state in which you graduated? Or, the odds are way too thin to risk it? I do not want to not go APA just want to gain some further education of my options....(or lack there of)

Thanks again

 

[walt55054life]

Hey Walt, I just noticed your post on the WAMC thread. With your recent consideration of master's degrees and your interest in John Jay, have you considered applying to their master's program in forensic psych? Their minimum GRE score is 1000, so you should be set to go there. They have thesis, practicum, or thesis/practicum tracks available, which allows you to tailor the degree to your needs to some extent, which may be a bonus.

Previously I had considered, but I have read very negative things about just forensic psych (eg dead in jobs, no jobs, etc.). There is no hiding the fact that one day I want to be a licensed psychologist at a federal prison; but if I can never land into a clinical program I suppose a state prison would suffice. However, I would not be able to help that population if I only received a Master's in Forensics. Plus, I also want to be well-rounded to conduct research directly out of dissertation and licensure.

What do you know about PhDs in Social Work?

 

[2012PhD]

If you don't graduate from a APA accredited school then you can't get licensed anywhere outside of that state in which you graduated? Or, the odds are way too thin to risk it? I do not want to not go APA just want to gain some further education of my options....(or lack there of)

Thanks again

If you don't attend an apa accredited program, then you generally won't be able to secure an apa accredited internship, which will limit your employment options. In terms of licensure, there are many states that require an apa accredited program and an approved internship for licensure. It think it will be an uphill battle to get licensed in many U.S. states from an non-apa program. You may be able to get licensed in NY, but why restrict yourself to one location? There is enough competition in our field, an apa accreditation is MINIMAL qualification for jobs and internship/post-docs.

I am familiar with the John Jay PhD program and knew some professors who were core faculty there. To my knowledge, they were seeking APA accredidation even 6 years ago and still have not received it. That's why i didn't apply 6 years ago. The program is about 7 years old from what i remember.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

If you don't graduate from a APA accredited school then you can't get licensed anywhere outside of that state in which you graduated? Or, the odds are way too thin to risk it? I do not want to not go APA just want to gain some further education of my options....(or lack there of)

Thanks again

You can get licensed in other states, but you need to jump through more hoops including: proving equivalency, tracking hours, etc.

 

[cara susanna]

walt, you should look into the University of North Dakota Clinical PhD. They also have a Masters in Forensic Psych. There are a lot of researchers with forensic-related interests and forensic clinical opportunities within the department.

 

[walt55054life]

walt, you should look into the University of North Dakota Clinical PhD. They also have a Masters in Forensic Psych. There are a lot of researchers with forensic-related interests and forensic clinical opportunities within the department.

My fiance will hate you, but it looks like I am competitive there and have some very good potential research matches....THANKS A TONNNN

 

[cara susanna]

No problem. If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

And my apologies to your fiance.

 

[2012PhD]

My fiance will hate you, but it looks like I am competitive there and have some very good potential research matches....THANKS A TONNNN

fordham's PHD in clinical also has a forensic focus and faculty who specialize in this area. At least they did a couple of years ago.

 

[wigflip]

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but CUNY (the entire institution, not the psych program alone) doesn't have the greatest reputation if you think you might be interested in applying for academic positions at some point (as opposed to solely clinical work). Some self-effacing CUNY grads were joking about their unemployability (as professors) on another site I visit regularly. That said, an acquaintance graduated from CUNY and got a T-T job, but s/he was a machine and had over two dozen journal articles published before graduation day.

 

[FadedC]

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but CUNY (the entire institution, not the psych program alone) doesn't have the greatest reputation if you think you might be interested in applying for academic positions at some point (as opposed to solely clinical work). Some self-effacing CUNY grads were joking about their unemployability (as professors) on another site I visit regularly. That said, an acquaintance graduated from CUNY and got a T-T job, but s/he was a machine and had over two dozen journal articles published before graduation day.

Well if your talking about CUNY as a whole, that might be somewhat accurate, but there are certainly plenty of individual programs within the CUNY system that are extremely highly regarded. I've certainly generally heard pretty positive things about John Jay in terms of their reputation.

 

[PerhapsMaybeOk]

Oh, look, another one of these posts.

 

[wigflip]

Well if your talking about CUNY as a whole, that might be somewhat accurate, but there are certainly plenty of individual programs within the CUNY system that are extremely highly regarded. I've certainly generally heard pretty positive things about John Jay in terms of their reputation.

I'm sure that's true, but that's why I hedged my response by orienting to its possible non-relevance (and balanced it with a CUNY success story). I thought it was worth mentioning because I've been chatting with CUNY folks online (from STEM disciplines and others) and they're disheartened by the end result of years of study. I think it's worth considering institutional reputation as well as program reputation, especially if it may effectively foreclose certain career options in the future. I'm guessing that institutional reputation matters less if someone is interested solely in clinical work--then it wouldn't make as much sense for employers to pay attention to the entire institution's reputation, just the department's. But I go to a school that's ranked #2 in my subfield, reputed to be edging out #1. Doesn't matter at all--people from the Ivies and institutions ranked higher than ours ace out our grads at academic job interviews every single time. The only person to get a full time job from my subfield went to a research institute, and was deeply disappointed. Just trying to share that perspective, in case the person was trying to keep options beyond clinical open.

 

[wigflip]

Oh, look, another one of these posts.

Uhhhh...not really sure what that's supposed to mean. If the academic job market is of concern to no one here, then why do people mention "teaching" (often very casually, as if that was something easy to arrange) and other traditionally academic trajectories? Isn't that one of the rationales folks on this forum have used for warning people off from PsyD programs, that it can foreclose or hinder certain future opportunities, ones you may not currently prioritize, but might one day consider?

 

[PerhapsMaybeOk]

Uhhhh...not really sure what that's supposed to mean.

trust me, you wait and see.

 

[FadedC]

I'm sure that's true, but that's why I hedged my response by orienting to its possible non-relevance (and balanced it with a CUNY success story). I thought it was worth mentioning because I've been chatting with CUNY folks online (from STEM disciplines and others) and they're disheartened by the end result of years of study. I think it's worth considering institutional reputation as well as program reputation, especially if it may effectively foreclose certain career options in the future. I'm guessing that institutional reputation matters less if someone is interested solely in clinical work--then it wouldn't make as much sense for employers to pay attention to the entire institution's reputation, just the department's. But I go to a school that's ranked #2 in my subfield, reputed to be edging out #1. Doesn't matter at all--people from the Ivies and institutions ranked higher than ours ace out our grads at academic job interviews every single time. The only person to get a full time job from my subfield went to a research institute, and was deeply disappointed. Just trying to share that perspective, in case the person was trying to keep options beyond clinical open.

Well it's certainly a fair point that it can be useful to take into account school reputation as well as program reputation. However in this case the school is John Jay, and my understanding is that it has a pretty good reputation especially for anything related to criminal justice and law enforcement (ie forensics). CUNY isn't a school, it's just an acronym that represents that a particular University is funded/run by the City of New York. It wouldn't even go on your CV.

As for the people complaining about not being able to get a job, I think it's hard to go too much out of anecdotes like that. Especially in the current academic job market, there are plenty of other reasons why they might not be able to find a teaching job.

 

[PhDToBe]

Sam Houston's clinical program is accredited. I have heard that John Jay is not because they have the "forensic emphasis" in the title...so it may be partially due to semantics. I looked into Sam Houston, and they only have a couple (one in particular) very forensic researchers, and when I interviewed the current students told me that the more advanced students work with him, and the newer ones work on the more advanced students' research. That seems too much like undergrads helping grad students to me. The very forensic researcher just recently graduated himself, and wanted a different position, anyhow...

There are several other accredited clinical program with forensic concentrations or researchers. Look at the forensic thread for many lists of them.

 

[modestmousktr]

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but I had a similar question about John Jay, and more just confusion about the program. I was recently reviewing their APA intership match rates, and the past three years state 100%, 83%, and 83%. It varies from 50%-100% over time with a mean of 79% total. I thought maybe this high number could be due to students sticking around extra years to ensure matching, but average time to completion is 5 years for M.A. students and 5.8 for B.A. students. Then I see that there is tuition remission and an 18,000 stipend per year, promised to all students, with the opportunity for additional intramural fellowships.

Like all others, I am EXTREMELY frightened to go to an unaccredited university. My friend interviewed here last year and the director told her that she expected they would have been accredited by the time she entered, this fall, which they obviously are not. I guess my question is, how are so many students matching to APA internships while the university is unaccredited? And where does the money for the stipends come from if it's not a high-quality program? Does anyone have an inkling of when they could be accredited?

I'm applying in fall of this year, and am attracted by the research and funding, plus my partner could easily find a job in this city, but I absolutely would not go to a university that isn't accredited. I suppose I could apply and see if they get accreditation before I enrolled, if I were to be accepted. Anyway, just curious about people's opinions of the stats in conjunction with their non-accredited status.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Like all others, I am EXTREMELY frightened to go to an unaccredited university. My friend interviewed here last year and the director told her that she expected they would have been accredited by the time she entered, this fall, which they obviously are not. I guess my question is, how are so many students matching to APA internships while the university is unaccredited? And where does the money for the stipends come from if it's not a high-quality program? Does anyone have an inkling of when they could be accredited?

The problem with these types of programs (as I stated earlier) is that it is too niche. I'm not surprised they are not APA-acred. because the focus is too narrow, at the detriment of generalist training. I wouldn't hold your breath about accreditation because I have yet to see any niche program like this gain APA-acred. status.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Honestly, I wouldn't even care, when they were going to get accredited. Don't even apply until they are accredited.

 

[psychbutterfly]

It's not accredited yet...I graduated from there with a MA last spring. It's not a forensic program for the PhD...it's clinical, and it's through CUNY.