Anyone been denied for misdemeanors?

[psyzk]

Just want to know if anyone has been denied acceptance for misdemeanors and what it was. I have a couple on my record and want to know what will happen if I apply before my abuse case is expunged!

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[Art Vandalais]

Well, I guess I am about to find out. I have had two minor in possession of alcohol charges, both of which were 5+ yrs ago.

Getting them expunged is a good idea, however you should be forewarned that on many secondaries there is a question that asks if you've ever been charged, convicted, etc, of any crime regardless of whether it was expunged, you must answer YES. You will likely have to fess up to it, so I wouldn't hold up your AMCAS and make yourself more disadvantaged.

Despite the predominating thought on SDN, people who review your application are human. They understand that people make mistakes and learn from them. But it's up to you to explain it in such a way that makes them understand that. And then I would apply to a broad range of schools so that you find the ones that are more accepting of that.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Getting them expunged is a good idea, however you should be forewarned that on many secondaries there is a question that asks if you've ever been charged, convicted, etc, of any crime regardless of whether it was expunged, you must answer YES. You will likely have to fess up to it, so I wouldn't hold up your AMCAS and make yourself more disadvantaged.

Talk to an attorney. You may be able to say "no" even if they ask the question this way. Expungement in California is very explicit as to say that you must only disclose to government hiring agencies and the lottery, so a private institution asking that you could potentially say "no" and have no legal problems. Consult an attorney.

And no, people are not "human" that understand mistakes. My friend was in admissions at USC Law and he says the moment an application had any form of criminal record it was flagged with a big black marker and likelihood of entry were none.

 

[Art Vandalais]

I took the name of my state out, but this is what is stated:

"An expunged record is confidential, but remains available for use by any law enforcement agency, criminal justice agency, the ____ State Board of Medical Examiners, the _____ State Board of Nursing, the ____ State Board of Dentistry, the ____ State Board of Examiners of Psychologists, the Emergency Medical Services Certification Commission, ____ Attorney Disciplinary Board, Office of Disciplinary Counsel, or the _____ Supreme Court Committee on Bar Admissions. For investigative purposes only, the Department of Public Safety and Corrections may maintain a confidential, nonpublic record of the arrest and disposition. _____ Criminal Code 44:9."

So, again, weigh the risks vs. rewards of not disclosing information. It will likely come out in the future when you match, apply to the board of ME, etc.

And yes, people are human and while USC law may happen to have a strict policy about that, I know for a fact other schools don't, hence my advice to apply broadly.

 

[McBatCommander]

I really don't know how to feel about this subject. I'd LIKE to think that if there is a clear seperation in behavior from the time the crimes were commited, to the time you apply, it won't matter.

I have a DUI. Hopefully if all works out and my grades and MCAT scores are "exceptional", my DUI wont' even matter.

But we'll just have to see.

 

[rockaction]

I really don't know how to feel about this subject. I'd LIKE to think that if there is a clear seperation in behavior from the time the crimes were commited, to the time you apply, it won't matter.

I have a DUI. Hopefully if all works out and my grades and MCAT scores are "exceptional", my DUI wont' even matter.

But we'll just have to see.

Unfortunately, grades and MCAT alone definitely won't wipe away a DUI. You're likely going to get many doors closed on you. Remember that there are plenty of people with great numbers that don't get into med school every year, so you shouldn't expect for numbers to make up for a blotch on your application like that.

 

[Emikosma]

Unfortunately, grades and MCAT alone definitely won't wipe away a DUI. You're likely going to get many doors closed on you. Remember that there are plenty of people with great numbers that don't get into med school every year, so you shouldn't expect for numbers to make up for a blotch on your application like that.

You really have no basis to make this statement as a medical student. You have no idea how adcoms look at things like this.

OP, you probably shouldn't ask this question in the pre-med forum. It's likely that you will get a lot of mixed and/or false information.

If you want some reassurance, call some of the schools on your list (anonymously) and ask about how they deal with applicants with a criminal record. Also, you could call your state licensing board.

 

[rockaction]

You really have no basis to make this statement as a medical student. You have no idea how adcoms look at things like this.

I'm not saying it as a pompous med student, I'm saying it as someone who has used the search button before. It's kind of obvious that no adcom would shrug off a DUI just because of killer MCAT scores.

 

[csmittyB]

You really have no basis to make this statement as a medical student. You have no idea how adcoms look at things like this.....

You have a point. Still, having a DUI means that the poster was legally intoxicated behind the wheel of a vehicle endangering his life and the lives of other people. In other words, terrible judgment. People may also assume that the poster has driven drunk on more than one occasion and just happened to get caught that time. I am certainly not an adcom so what do I know. Personally, I'd probably choose a student with decent numbers and no DUI vs student with a DUI and stellar numbers. But that is just my non adcom opinion. I guess if the poster has done alcohol awareness presentations or the dangers of drinking and driving presentations, I may reconsider, but this is all personal opinion and has no meaning beyond that.

I still think the guy has an uphill battle ahead of him.

 

[m1lkm4nn]

You have a point. Still, having a DUI means that the poster was legally intoxicated behind the wheel of a vehicle endangering his life and the lives of other people. In other words, terrible judgment. People may also assume that the poster has driven drunk on more than one occasion and just happened to get caught that time. I am certainly not an adcom so what do I know. Personally, I'd probably choose a student with decent numbers and no DUI vs student with a DUI and stellar numbers. But that is just my non adcom opinion. I guess if the poster has done alcohol awareness presentations or the dangers of drinking and driving presentations, I may reconsider, but this is all personal opinion and has no meaning beyond that.

I still think the guy has an uphill battle ahead of him.

I think this is a good representation of what happens when this kind of thread is started on sdn. Nothing against you csmittyB (you were just giving your opinion and were clear about that), but opinions tend to dominate posts about criminal records and med school. The truth is most of us don't really know how criminal records are treated. Anecdotal things such as "I don't know any med students with DUI's" come up too. I wouldn't be very open about my DUI if I was in med school. Why would you ever come out with that if it wasn't someone you really trusted?

The best thing to do is ask directly to adcoms (anonymously, or openly if you approach the question in the right way), get opinions only from people who have a connection to med school admissions, and get legal advice about what you are required to disclose, after trying to get as much off your record as possible.

 

[McBatCommander]

Let us bad kids with criminal pasts hope and pray to the Med School gods that we be allowed entrance without judgment of previous endeavors.

 

[MichaelRW]

You really have no basis to make this statement as a medical student. You have no idea how adcoms look at things like this.

OP, you probably shouldn't ask this question in the pre-med forum. It's likely that you will get a lot of mixed and/or false information.

If you want some reassurance, call some of the schools on your list (anonymously) and ask about how they deal with applicants with a criminal record. Also, you could call your state licensing board.

dude, OP, you can become a doctor with misdemeanors, trust me. Will you have added challenges? sure. Remember, schools want to give seats to students who will become physicians so if there is a chance that you will be unable to get licensed, that would be their biggest concern. Research state license laws. Some states grant a type of 'hardship' license and will require you to practice several years under another physician in some sort of state program (prison, free clinic, etc.); paying your debt so to speak.

You need to be as good of an applicant as possible, demonstrate a positive change, maturity, etc. How has this experience shaped you as an individual? Are you prone to do something like this again? Dont make excuses, own up to what you did, acknowledge it, but dont harp on it.

Consider all of this and how it may apply to your situation. good luck

 

[pennstate4life]

You really have no basis to make this statement as a medical student. You have no idea how adcoms look at things like this.

OP, you probably shouldn't ask this question in the pre-med forum. It's likely that you will get a lot of mixed and/or false information.

If you want some reassurance, call some of the schools on your list (anonymously) and ask about how they deal with applicants with a criminal record. Also, you could call your state licensing board.

Lol do you need to be in admissions to have common sense?

 

[Art Vandalais]

Lol do you need to be in admissions to have common sense?

Considering most people who post on this forum are pre-med brats between the ages of 18-21 who are judgemental, have no life experience, would sell their soul to get into med school and are quick to crap on other people who are trying vs. adcoms who are composed of people with real life experience that have made mistakes and learned from them......yeah, you really have no perspective whatsoever.

I'm not saying that you can be a violent felon and get into medical school; in fact in many states a first DUI is a misdemeanor. But alcohol related offense, pot, etc...if the applicant shows remorse and owns their mistake and is honest about it, they're not going to throw his application in the trash can. You guys forget that adcoms look through a thousand applicants' files every year. They have seen literally everything. They have admitted students with MIPs, DUIs. Some of these have gone on to be some of their better students and better doctors. If you are otherwise legit, good mcat, gpa, volunteering, just put it down and be prepared to talk about it in your interview in a mature fashion. If you answer questions well enough and keep your composure, it could even be to your benefit if it is a minor offense (e.g mip - alcohol)

 

[Dr Love]

Considering most people who post on this forum are pre-med brats between the ages of 18-21 who are judgemental, have no life experience, would sell their soul to get into med school and are quick to crap on other people who are trying vs. adcoms who are composed of people with real life experience that have made mistakes and learned from them......yeah, you really have no perspective whatsoever.

Wow you have a lot of confidence in Adcoms, who are essentially the aged pre-med group you loathe.

 

[KPCOFGS]

Considering most people who post on this forum are pre-med brats between the ages of 18-21 who are judgemental, have no life experience, would sell their soul to get into med school and are quick to crap on other people who are trying vs. adcoms who are composed of people with real life experience that have made mistakes and learned from them......yeah, you really have no perspective whatsoever.

or maybe they're just sensible people who don't want someone who thinks it's okay to drink and drive performing surgeries. how many people with DUIs are actually remorseful rather than hate themselves for getting caught? not that many.

 

[JJMrK]

You need to talk to a lawyer about whether or not you have to report them on AMCAS even if expunged. It's likely you will.

You can still get in, depending on what the offense was. If it's violent or drug related, it may be much harder/impossible. If not, you probably still have an uphill battle, but may have some success. Remember, there are thousands of applicants with quality numbers and no legal trouble that do not get in each year. Be sure that you have absolutely zero other holes in your application.

 

[frikarika]

Yes, you can get in with misdemeanors I know that for a fact. I had a misdemeanor paraphernalia charge on my record (judge was an ******* and didn't give an SES), and I got accepted to three schools. I do think that it hurt me however. Another example, my close friend got a DUI @ 21 and had great scores 35 mcat/ 4.0 plus many experiences and he got into 4 schools. Did it hurt his application? Yeah it surely did. But don't let anyone tell you it's impossible, ADCOMS and physicians are real people just like everyone else and they know people make mistakes.

 

[csmittyB]

Also if you get rid of it I see absolutely no reason to mention this on any application if asked.

Like at the DMV renewing my license they asked me weather or not I was ever arrested. WTF kind of question is that? I'm no lawyer but if the misdemeanors are dropped it's basically like it never even happened. I said no and will do the same on my app if asked.

Cross your fingers that nothing comes up on the background checks if you are accepted.

 

[softmed]

Cross your fingers that nothing comes up on the background checks if you are accepted.

I'm pretty sure arrests, assuming it was a few years ago, always end up being dropped from the record. It isn't justice otherwise. The DMV probably asks because sometimes people think the charges were dropped but they're still pending or they have an arrest warrant out. Something like that.

 

[Parts Unknown]

You have a point. Still, having a DUI means that the poster was legally intoxicated behind the wheel of a vehicle endangering his life and the lives of other people. In other words, terrible judgment.

Out of curiosity, have you ever driven while talking on a cellphone?

 

[McBatCommander]

or maybe they're just sensible people who don't want someone who thinks it's okay to drink and drive performing surgeries. how many people with DUIs are actually remorseful rather than hate themselves for getting caught? not that many.

What's it feel like to be a perfect human being, man? I'd really like to know.

 

[GH253]

or maybe they're just sensible people who don't want someone who thinks it's okay to drink and drive performing surgeries. how many people with DUIs are actually remorseful rather than hate themselves for getting caught? not that many.

You have no idea. Many DUIs occur due to the drivers having impaired judgment at the time, not because they believe while in their right minds that it is acceptable to drive drunk. An isolated incident of DUI is forgivable.

 

[MCAT guy]

If you report them or not, the schools will find out.

About 85% or more of the schools I just applied to all had the "CBC" designation right next to them.

Criminal Background Check

They make you agree to it before you can even apply. They will know every public record misdemeanor you have. It is easily accessible information, like looking up a listed phone number.

 

[softmed]

Out of curiosity, have you ever driven while talking on a cellphone?

I know what you're going to attempt to say, and you're wrong. 6,000 deaths are thought to be linked to cell phone use. 11,700 deaths occur linked to alcohol. (these numbers are annual) But you should note that while drinking and driving is relatively rare, about 1 million Americans are texting, talking on the phone, or otherwise using their cell phones while driving at any given moment.

So when you consider how many people talk on their cell phones while driving, it's much, much safer than drinking and driving. Any kind of distraction is a bad thing while driving. More accidents are caused by playing with the radio, talking to passengers, eating/drinking, or being tired than cell phones. The difference between these activities and drinking, however, is that EVERYONE does these things which means it's none of these distractions are nearly as deadly as alcohol.

http://www.edgarsnyder.com/drunk-driving/statistics.html
http://www.edgarsnyder.com/car-accident/cell/statistics.html

*While I was looking for sources on this stuff I found a ton of websites stating something along the lines of "Cell phones as dangerous as alcohol" which may be true, except the statistics don't seem to show it. Sensationalist journalism at its finest I suppose.

You have no idea. Many DUIs occur due to the drivers having impaired judgment at the time, not because they believe while in their right minds that it is acceptable to drive drunk. An isolated incident of DUI is forgivable.

It's true. What's interesting is that I read an article saying that the standard 0.08 BAC is actually too low. That statistically speaking, it isn't until 0.16 BAC that you actually see an increase in accidents. The sad thing is that the person with a misdemeanor alcohol offense could have been below 0.16 and still have to deal with this crap on his or her record.

 

[rockaction]

You have no idea. Many DUIs occur due to the drivers having impaired judgment at the time, not because they believe while in their right minds that it is acceptable to drive drunk. An isolated incident of DUI is forgivable.

So people aren't responsible for their actions if they're too drunk to know any better?

 

[softmed]

So people aren't responsible for their actions if they're too drunk to know any better?

People make mistakes. We've all made mistakes in our lives. Some people get in trouble with the law when they make their mistakes. I mean getting arrested or in trouble with the law all the time is one thing, a one time brush should be forgivable.

As a person who as drunk beer then driven, I can see how easily it might happen. I drink 1 or 2 beers, then I wait a few hours and just hang out. I could see myself accidentally drinking a bit too fast and not waiting long enough. (what's a bit funny is that it would take 5 beers for me to get to the legal limit--whoo hoo for being fat!)

 

[SoFreakedOut]

Someone said earlier that you might as well turn in your AMCAS because even if it's expunged from your record you have to disclose it, false (for primaries at least...the commenter said that some secondaries require it even if it's expunged, you'd have to look into that further and which schools, maybe don't apply to those or have lower expectations?).

Per the AMCAS misdemeanor section instructions:
Have you ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty or no contest to, a Misdemeanor crime, excluding 1) any offense for which you were adjudicated as a juvenile, 2) any convictions which have been expunged or sealed by a court, or 3) any misdemeanor convictions for which any probation has been completed and the case dismissed by the court (in states where applicable)?
You need NOT disclose any instance where you:

• were arrested, but not charged;
• were arrested and charged, but the charges were dropped;
• were arrested and charged, but found not guilty by a judge or jury;
• were arrested and found guilty by a judge or jury, but the conviction was overturned on appeal; or
• received an executive pardon.

It was also mentioned that if it's expunged it will still appear in your criminal background check. That I have no idea about but an email is sent after submitting the AMCAS that tells you which company is doing the background check and that you can pay a fee and have them send you a copy. For individuals worried if it's still on their record here's the instructions on the email, I guess have a copy sent to you before applying just to make sure (no clue how long that takes though, call them):

"Should you choose to do so, for a fee, you may procure your own report from Certiphi Screening, Inc. in advance of the AMCAS-facilitated report by going to https://www.applicationstation.com/home/cal.asp?rc=CERTAP2011 "

As far as a record affecting your chances if it has NOT been expunged and you do have to report it...no clue, sorry. Calling schools and inquiring about policies, like someone suggested may help, though they may not give that info upfront. If you really want to apply before the record is expunged then I agree with the opinion of applying broadly.

 

[Parts Unknown]

I know what you're going to attempt to say,

No, actually you didn't, but thanks for your patience.

 

[whoop]

Out of curiosity, have you ever driven while talking on a cellphone?

Cells phones are dangerous too, but a DUI may raise red flags. Adcoms may believe that a person with a DUI may have a drug or alcohol problem, they may not want to take a chance on someone with problem like this when there are plenty of DUI free applicants to choose from. I know where I live, there have been few physicians and pharmacists arrested on serious drug charges.

 

[Parts Unknown]

Cells phones are dangerous too, but a DUI may raise red flags. Adcoms may believe that a person with a DUI may have a drug or alcohol problem, they may not want to take a chance on someone with problem like this when there are plenty of DUI free applicants to choose from.

Really? Wow, I had no idea. Thanks!

 

[whoop]

Really? Wow, I had no idea. Thanks!

No problem, next time I'm charging you $50.00 for a senseless sarcasm fee.

 

[Parts Unknown]

No problem, next time I'm charging you $50.00 for a senseless sarcasm fee.

I think it was perfectly sensible, under the circumstances.