Anyone have questions about OMFS residency or the application process?

[CMistry]

I've got some time on my hands.

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[NTATD]

What would you recommend reading up on before externing?

 

[DancingBull]

Could you tell and rank for us the most important aspects of an OMFS application and during what time we should be doing those things.

 

[sacapuntas]

Could you please share how you put yourself in a place to be accepted into an OMFS residency? At what point in DS did you know that was the path you would take?

 

[Koalafied]

http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/educa...gery/residency-program/current-residents.html
Can you explain this? Not a female in sight.

 

[periopocket]

Can you tell us the limitations of the 4-year OMS track vs. the 6-year? Also, would you be willing to give us a yearly breakdown of extracurriculars to make our selves most competitive?

 

[Koalafied]

This is discouraging.

 

[Golfguy]

Could you tell and rank for us the most important aspects of an OMFS application and during what time we should be doing those things.

I second this. Thanks CMistry.

 

[CMistry]

What would you recommend reading up on before externing?

OMFS Secrets by Abubaker. It is more than enough for an extern.

Could you tell and rank for us the most important aspects of an OMFS application and during what time we should be doing those things.

1. Board / NBME score
2. Class rank
3. Externships
4. Having something to talk about during your interview (all your ECs, personal statement, etc. come down to this)

There's really no secret, it's the same as most other specialties.

Could you please share how you put yourself in a place to be accepted into an OMFS residency? At what point in DS did you know that was the path you would take?

I started shadowing the OMFS department at my school starting in the fall of second year. I knew very quickly that it was my calling. From that time on I spent as much time as I could with the department, while trying to keep my grades as high as possible (I knew this was more important). My other clinical skills were not advancing as quickly as my classmates, but I didn't care since I knew OMFS was my priority. By the time third year rolled around I had set up some externships to view different programs and see how diverse OMFS residencies really were. By third fall I had completed by externships and submitted my application.

http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/educa...gery/residency-program/current-residents.html
Can you explain this? Not a female in sight.

I'm really not in a position to explain it, but here is my understanding: We have had female residents before, and we have ranked females highly even very recently. I think, understandably, most women don't want to be alone in a program with 28 male coresidents.

Can you tell us the limitations of the 4-year OMS track vs. the 6-year? Also, would you be willing to give us a yearly breakdown of extracurriculars to make our selves most competitive?

There are no limitations to a 4-year track. The additional degree is peripheral and mainly for academic purposes. The only caveat is that many (maybe most) fellowships do require a medical degree.

As far as extracurriculars, if they're not related to OMFS then they're not very important. OMFS residency does not want to see well-rounded people, they want to see committed people. Working 100 hours/wk with overnight call does not require well-roundedness (is that a word?). Shadow you school's OMFS department, get involved with OMFS research, and do some externships (in that order).

This is discouraging.

See above.

I second this. Thanks CMistry.

See above.

Hope this helps!

 

[DancingBull]

What if my school is P/F and there isn't a specific OMFS department?

 

[Koalafied]

1. Board / NBME score
2. Class rank
3. Externships
4. Having something to talk about during your interview (all your ECs, personal statement, etc. come down to this)

There's really no secret, it's the same as most other specialties.

In that hierarchy?

Also, is/was there preferential treatment for TX res. at UTSW?

 

[Golfguy]

What is the maximum age that you think one should consider starting an OMFS residency? For the MD route, is there any mandatory call in force by state law or other institutions? How feasible is it with the 4-year tract to take trauma and more advanced procedures a couple days a week AND run a private practice, in terms of competitiveness, 4 year vs. 6 year, and ultimately, time?

 

[shootingstar7]

http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/educa...gery/residency-program/current-residents.html
Can you explain this? Not a female in sight.

Not trying to steal anyone's thunder here, but I think women overall are not attracted to OMFS. Most of us will graduate ds when we are 27-30+. At that stage in our lives, most women will be looking to marry, settle down, have children etc. A 4-6 year OMFS program would at least appear as having the potential of getting in the away of the aforementioned goals. I'm not sure if it would or not, but I'm leaning towards would. Plus, even beyond residency, oral surgeons have a greater time commitment to their patients. Big surgeries are typically Friday mornings, so they must be on call all weekend etc.

 

[ChuckDAT]

What is the maximum age that you think one should consider starting an OMFS residency? For the MD route, is there any mandatory call in force by state law or other institutions? How feasible is it with the 4-year tract to take trauma and more advanced procedures a couple days a week AND run a private practice, in terms of competitiveness, 4 year vs. 6 year, and ultimately, time?

I would like to know this also. Good question.

 

[CMistry]

What if my school is P/F and there isn't a specific OMFS department?

Regarding P/F, that just means you have 3 critical aspects to your application instead of 4. If you school doesn't have an OMFS department that definitely puts you at a disadvantage, and you'll have to make it up by doing a few more externships to learn more about OMFS. It kind of goes without saying, but I learned more at my home OMFS program than anywhere else.

In that hierarchy?

Also, is/was there preferential treatment for TX res. at UTSW?

That is the hierarchy that I find true.

Residencies don't have any financial incentive to take in-state applicants (unlike graduate school). Typically you'll find programs have more of their own dental students, since they know the students well prior to application. Since we don't have a dental school here at UTSW, we have no bias. We have residents from all corners of the U.S. and a wide range of schools, and I believe only 1-2 of the 28 of us are from Texas.

What is the maximum age that you think one should consider starting an OMFS residency? For the MD route, is there any mandatory call in force by state law or other institutions? How feasible is it with the 4-year tract to take trauma and more advanced procedures a couple days a week AND run a private practice, in terms of competitiveness, 4 year vs. 6 year, and ultimately, time?

Tough question. I know people who have started 6-year programs in their 30s, but obviously the answer to your question is very person-dependent. If you have a family that changes things quite a bit. Also if you are tiring out from dental school, it's probably not a good idea to jump into OMFS. I'm not sure what you mean by mandatory call, but you will work long hours and overnight hours regardless of where you go. It is very feasible for either a 4yr or 6yr graduate to do both hospital work and private practice, but you'll find that it is rarely done. Money and family obligations often get in the way. The reality is that they are two very different worlds and it is probably very difficult to try and juggle both.

Thank you for making this thread!

What do you feel are the job prospects for someone seeking to make a career in academics?

The jobs are there and waiting for young academians. It will be a great career no doubt - the hours are not as bad as people thing (as an attending), and the money is better (well.. compared to new grad salary).

Not trying to steal anyone's thunder here, but I think women overall are not attracted to OMFS. Most of us will graduate ds when we are 27-30+. At that stage in our lives, most women will be looking to marry, settle down, have children etc. A 4-6 year OMFS program would at least appear as having the potential of getting in the away of the aforementioned goals. I'm not sure if it would or not, but I'm leaning towards would.

You are correct.

I would like to know this also. Good question.

See above.


Keep em coming.

 

[Koalafied]

That is the hierarchy that I find true. Were/are most of your peers/colleagues/whatever-you-call-em originally from P/F or HP/P/F d-schools?

Residencies don't have any financial incentive to take in-state applicants (unlike graduate school). Typically you'll find programs have more of their own dental students, since they know the students well prior to application. Since we don't have a dental school here at UTSW, we have no bias. We have residents from all corners of the U.S. and a wide range of schools, and I believe only 1-2 of the 28 of us are from Texas. Talk about ~20 years of worth of self-esteem down the drain.

Also, are you immune to these(http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=1023705)? Answer on that thread. Please.

Thanks a bunch, I appreciate this!

 

[CMistry]

Were/are most of your peers/colleagues/whatever-you-call-em originally from P/F or HP/P/F d-schools?

2/5 of my coresidents went to P/F schools. But out of all 29 of us it probably isn't more than 3-4.

 

[Golfguy]

I'm not sure what you mean by mandatory call, but you will work long hours and overnight hours regardless of where you go.

Thanks for your answers. Much appreciated.

I was referring to after the completion of the residency. A fellow student told me he wouldn't consider the MD route because there was mandatory call based on laws to license the MD. I told him this was BS, but I wanted to confirm with someone who knows for sure.

Consider a hypothetical 25 year practice of OMFS or GD. Do you think it would be financially advantageous to pursue OMFS given the extra debt and accrued interest during residency? I'm certainly an advocate that people do what they like, but it has to make some financial sense and keep the ability to feed ones family and not be a slave to overwhelming debt. I know there are a lot of variables in this, but just consider the averages. Thanks.

 

[Sublimazing]

The average net income for an independent private practitioner who owned all or part of his or her practice in 2009 was $192,680 for a general practitioner and $305,820 for a specialist.


Omfs makes the most, on avg, of any dental field

 

[CMistry]

Thanks for your answers. Much appreciated.

I was referring to after the completion of the residency. A fellow student told me he wouldn't consider the MD route because there was mandatory call based on laws to license the MD. I told him this was BS, but I wanted to confirm with someone who knows for sure.

Consider a hypothetical 25 year practice of OMFS or GD. Do you think it would be financially advantageous to pursue OMFS given the extra debt and accrued interest during residency? I'm certainly an advocate that people do what they like, but it has to make some financial sense and keep the ability to feed ones family and not be a slave to overwhelming debt. I know there are a lot of variables in this, but just consider the averages. Thanks.

Yes your fellow student is full of B.S. There is no additional call required for the dual degree guys. There is no call required for any OMFS graduate for that matter.

In regards to your second question, yes I do think it is financially advantageous to do OMFS in the long run. Even just consisting the averages. And if you're a keen businessman you will still make more with OMFS. The procedures are simply that much more profitable.

 

[Golfguy]

Yes your fellow student is full of B.S. There is no additional call required for the dual degree guys. There is no call required for any OMFS graduate for that matter.

In regards to your second question, yes I do think it is financially advantageous to do OMFS in the long run. Even just consisting the averages. And if you're a keen businessman you will still make more with OMFS. The procedures are simply that much more profitable.

Thanks a lot.

As a person interested in OS, how would you suggest I approach the OS department at my school about shadowing?

My friends brother is an single degree OMFS and had 2 kids during residency. Do your fellow residents have kids yet, and if so, how do they manage the workload?

 

[CMistry]

Thanks a lot.

As a person interested in OS, how would you suggest I approach the OS department at my school about shadowing?

My friends brother is an single degree OMFS and had 2 kids during residency. Do your fellow residents have kids yet, and if so, how do they manage the workload?

Speak with the department secretary and tell her you are interested in shadowing. You could also approach a resident and ask, most of us are happy to show you what we do.

Yes, several of my upper level residents have kids (some from before residency and some from during). I think it's harder for the significant other than it is on the resident, and I don't think many of their wives work. It is definitely tough to miss your kids first moments, you just have to remind yourself that its for a good cause and you will be able to spend more time with them later on.

 

[Seahawk]

Speak with the department secretary and tell her you are interested in shadowing. You could also approach a resident and ask, most of us are happy to show you what we do.

Yes, several of my upper level residents have kids (some from before residency and some from during). I think it's harder for the significant other than it is on the resident, and I don't think many of their wives work. It is definitely tough to miss your kids first moments, you just have to remind yourself that its for a good cause and you will be able to spend more time with them later on.

Would approaching one of the surgeons be inappropriate? I wouldn't think so but I didn't see you mention that in your suggestion. I am acquainted with one at my school, he took out my 3rds too.

 

[CMistry]

Would approaching one of the surgeons be inappropriate? I wouldn't think so but I didn't see you mention that in your suggestion. I am acquainted with one at my school, he took out my 3rds too.

Yeah that's fine, I just wouldn't walk up to one you don't know as they're pretty busy and will probably forward you to the secretary anyways.

 

[Koalafied]

2/5 of my coresidents went to P/F schools. But out of all 29 of us it probably isn't more than 3-4.

Bummer. You didn't make choosing d-schools any easier.

No posts. So I take it you're a perfectionist and possess a green thumb of both pin-point accuracy and precision, that of a deity of some sort?

 

[Koalafied]

Fine. If you don't want to answer the above question, then can you at least answer this final yes-or-no type question. I will not ask anymore.

Since the OMFS program at UTSW currently appears to be a gentlemen's club, there is something that has been bothering me for quite some time now.

Here is my final question:
Is there or is there not a brotherly/sisterly initiation, the kind you find in frats/SS, of some sort prior to the start or during the OMFS program at UTSW?

This would tie up a lot of loose ends and would clear up a lot of the confusion.

Thanks.

 

[CMistry]

Fine. If you don't want to answer the above question, then can you at least answer this final yes-or-no type question. I will not ask anymore.

Since the OMFS program at UTSW currently appears to be a gentlemen's club, there is something that has been bothering me for quite some time now.

Here is my final question:
Is there or is there not a brotherly/sisterly initiation, the kind you find in frats/SS, of some sort prior to the start or during the OMFS program at UTSW?

This would tie up a lot of loose ends and would clear up a lot of the confusion.

Thanks.

Sorry, I don't have any great stories of goof-ups to share with you.

There is no initiation of any kind. On the interview night we all go out (women included), but it does not have any affect on acceptance (2/5 of my coresidents did not go out). How that clears things up.

 

[Koalafied]

Sorry, I don't have any great stories of goof-ups to share with you. I never asked for quality, but since you answered my final Q you have the pass.

There is no initiation of any kind. On the interview night we all go out (women included), but it does not have any affect on acceptance (2/5 of my coresidents did not go out). How that clears things up. Yes it did.

Perfect! There's light at the end of the tunnel after all!

I can dream on.

 

[La Presse]

What programs still have the MD/OMFS combined residency?

 

[Tufts R Us]

It's listed on the aaoms site bro just do a google search

 

[avangusva]

How do you like residency so far?

When do you actually get to cut?

What kind of hospital politics/BS have you had to deal with and/or seen others deal with?

Why do people call it OMFS if it's actually OMS? *JOMS is the journal, not JOMFS*

Have you (or any co-residents) taken the NBME? What is the general consensus of a strong score and the test as a means of measurement overall?

Do you feel violated that I just added you on LinkedIn?

 

[alxspider]

What are the hours generally like each year (not including med school)? Like when do you come in and when do you leave on average? How does this affect life outside of school? Also what are you hearing about residents finding jobs? I have heard that starting salaries are going down a bit - more close to 180k

 

[Golfguy]

What does a resident do for insurance? Is family covered as well? Do your classmates with kids (whose wives don't work) live a decent life with the PYG wages? Do they see their kids much?

Thanks in advance!

 

[capnamerica]

Thanks for doing this CMistry.

For MORS fellowships, is an MD an unofficial requirement nowadays and do you think it will become an official requirement down the road like a decade from now?

 

[CMistry]

What programs still have the MD/OMFS combined residency?

It's about half the programs at this time and growing quickly.

 

[CMistry]

How do you like residency so far?

When do you actually get to cut?

What kind of hospital politics/BS have you had to deal with and/or seen others deal with?

Why do people call it OMFS if it's actually OMS? *JOMS is the journal, not JOMFS*

Have you (or any co-residents) taken the NBME? What is the general consensus of a strong score and the test as a means of measurement overall?

Do you feel violated that I just added you on LinkedIn?

Honestly I haven't done much residency yet, it's been mostly med school. I loved and miss my time on service, but I'm not crazy about med school.

I got to do some minor stuff in the OR during my brief time on service, but most of my real scalpel time will be in the last two years of my training.

I haven't had to deal with any hospital politics nor have I seen any. My faculty takes care of those issues and we have a big program with good presence here.

As to why is called OMFS vs. OMS, I have no idea. I use both interchangeably.

We have all taken the NBME, but we will not know what a respectable score for an applicant is until we have this year's applications. We have almost 200 applications every year and interview about 30, so it'll be pretty easy to determine a cut off once we have the applications in hand.

I didn't even know you added me, I never check it (nor recieve emails). But when I do I promise to add you.

Sorry for the fragmented answers, computer is down so I'm typing from my phone.

 

[CMistry]

What are the hours generally like each year (not including med school)? Like when do you come in and when do you leave on average? How does this affect life outside of school? Also what are you hearing about residents finding jobs? I have heard that starting salaries are going down a bit - more close to 180k

The hours on service are about 5:30am to 5:30pm with overnight call every fourth night. Post-call you still leave at 5:30pm. It varies SIGNIFICANTLY by whoever is chief at the time. The med schools hours aren't as lax as you think either, at least at my program.

Build stamina and you will make time. Most of the extra hours are early in the morning, so if you can stay awake in the afternoon you'll have time to do things. Of course q4 call is very taxing, but you're am important part of the hospital at those hours.

All of our residents founds jobs well in advance last year, but I can't comment on salary. Location plays the largest part in damn near every aspect of the job.

 

[CMistry]

What does a resident do for insurance? Is family covered as well? Do your classmates with kids (whose wives don't work) live a decent life with the PYG wages? Do they see their kids much?

Thanks in advance!

Our hospital has its own insurance program in which we are automatically enrolled. You can add a spouse and children just as you would any other insurance policy.

The residents with homemaker wives and kids do just fine. Not sure how, but they do. I'm sure money is tighter during the med school years when loans are tight (and much less than the $50k+/yr resident salary). I assume they spend time with their kids daily but I honestly don't know.

 

[CMistry]

Thanks for doing this CMistry.

For MORS fellowships, is an MD an unofficial requirement nowadays and do you think it will become an official requirement down the road like a decade from now?

If you check out the MORS website you will see that a few programs strongly recommend it but none state that it is required. I think it will definitely be an uphill battle as a 4yr grad but it's possible. Don't really see that changing too soon but what do I know.

 

[Golfguy]

How did you arrange missing classes/clinic in 3rd year when you did your externships? When would you recommend taking the NBME and submitting the application? How important do you think research is for the application?

Thanks again.

 

[CMistry]

How did you arrange missing classes/clinic in 3rd year when you did your externships? When would you recommend taking the NBME and submitting the application? How important do you think research is for the application?

Thanks again.

Your first question is really school-dependant. All your exterships should be done third year and some schools (particularly those that don't send many students on to OMFS) aren't willing to give you much time off then. Senior year is easier to get time off from, since you're expected to take time off for interviews. If I can graduate, I think anyone can. I came into senior year with the average amount of work done, took almost two entire months off to interview and another month off after orthognathic surgery.

Take the NBME as close to the NBDE as you can, so you only have to study once. Submit your application as early as possible, it gives the programs more time to make sure it's complete before they review it.

Research is peripheral. It might make you stand out if you did something really significant, and I'm sure it will come up in conversation somewhere along the interview trail. But it is by no means necessary.

 

[Golfguy]

Your first question is really school-dependant. All your exterships should be done third year and some schools (particularly those that don't send many students on to OMFS) aren't willing to give you much time off then. Senior year is easier to get time off from, since you're expected to take time off for interviews. If I can graduate, I think anyone can. I came into senior year with the average amount of work done, took almost two entire months off to interview and another month off after orthognathic surgery.

Take the NBME as close to the NBDE as you can, so you only have to study once. Submit your application as early as possible, it gives the programs more time to make sure it's complete before they review it.

Research is peripheral. It might make you stand out if you did something really significant, and I'm sure it will come up in conversation somewhere along the interview trail. But it is by no means necessary.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Unfortunately for me I'll have a gap between the two exams that is unavoidable.

From what I understand the exam is offered in May and September. Figured I would take it in May and work on the application over the summer. I'm not familiar with PASS, but my understanding is that we send it in the summer and fall before entering residency the following summer?

 

[CMistry]

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Unfortunately for me I'll have a gap between the two exams that is unavoidable.

From what I understand the exam is offered in May and September. Figured I would take it in May and work on the application over the summer. I'm not familiar with PASS, but my understanding is that we send it in the summer and fall before entering residency the following summer?

PASS opens sometime in May(?) of the year before you would (potentially) begin the program.

 

[canine89]

I'm scheduled to take the NBME Sept 21st.. I've been using Pathoma, First Aid and Qbanks... what was your plan of attack or do you have any pointers?

 

[CMistry]

I'm scheduled to take the NBME Sept 21st.. I've been using Pathoma, First Aid and Qbanks... what was your plan of attack or do you have any pointers?

That should be fine. I liked QBank the most but I think First Aid may be higher yield. Pathoma was great too but I ran out of time for it.

 

[alxspider]

The hours on service are about 5:30am to 5:30pm with overnight call every fourth night. Post-call you still leave at 5:30pm. It varies SIGNIFICANTLY by whoever is chief at the time. The med schools hours aren't as lax as you think either, at least at my program.

Build stamina and you will make time. Most of the extra hours are early in the morning, so if you can stay awake in the afternoon you'll have time to do things. Of course q4 call is very taxing, but you're am important part of the hospital at those hours.

All of our residents founds jobs well in advance last year, but I can't comment on salary. Location plays the largest part in damn near every aspect of the job.

Any idea on what the starting salary has been around the texas area (I assume many decide to stay there)?

 

[Spaceman Spif]

Does Parkland (in recent history) take their interns as residents the next year?

 

[CMistry]

Any idea on what the starting salary has been around the texas area (I assume many decide to stay there)?

Honestly no idea. A few decide to stay but most head elsewhere.

 

[CMistry]

Does Parkland (in recent history) take their interns as residents the next year?

No. In fact our program director has a rule that he will not accept them because he does not want to lower the admission standards.

 

[chlrbwls]

Hey!

Thanks for starting the thread

Could you describe a little bit about your ECs?

As an entering dental student I want to sort of visualize which level of ECs I should be active in.

Best,