AOA internship required for training license?

[NeuroDocDO]

is an osteopathic internship required to obtain a training license to work at an ACGME program in philadelphia, PA?

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[HCE]

is an osteopathic internship required to obtain a training license to work at an ACGME program in philadelphia, PA?

good question..I asked this about a month ago and got no response...

and congratulations on the Jefferson match!!

 

[motmas]

is an osteopathic internship required to obtain a training license to work at an ACGME program in philadelphia, PA?

Possibly, since PA is one of the five states that require AOA internships. Temporary licenses (for trainees) in PA are good for 12 months, after which it is surrendered back to the state. However, the PA Code states that the Board may extend the period of the license at their discretion. (Which is, at best, not very descriptive.) The AOA internship is required if you apply for an unrestricted license in PA. (http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter25/subchapGtoc.html)

I'd call the GME office where you matched to ask. The program coordinator should also know, as well as your school's office of student programs and records.

Hope this helps.

 

[HCE]

Possibly, since PA is one of the five states that require AOA internships. Temporary licenses (for trainees) in PA are good for 12 months, after which it is surrendered back to the state. However, the PA Code states that the Board may extend the period of the license at their discretion. (Which is, at best, not very descriptive.) The AOA internship is required if you apply for an unrestricted license in PA. (http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter25/subchapGtoc.html)

I'd call the GME office where you matched to ask. The program coordinator should also know, as well as your school's office of student programs and records.

Hope this helps.

Motmas, thanks for the info. Under the Temporary License section of the regulation you cited, they list the requirements, and attendance at an Osteopathic Internship program is not among them. So there is hope...I wish some DO in a Philly Allopathic program woud clear this up.

 

[DO_2007]

is an osteopathic internship required to obtain a training license to work at an ACGME program in philadelphia, PA?

What I would do, during your prelim year, I would work on the resolution 42. It is a matter of paper work and time. For Neurology, you should be fine getting the approval since there are very few neuro residencies in the country. If you can get the approval, you will be able to to get your liscence in PA once you pass step 3. A freind of mine was in the same situation 2 years ago, but he was in Michigan and that's what he did.

Good luck

 

[motmas]

What I would do, during your prelim year, I would work on the resolution 42. It is a matter of paper work and time. For Neurology, you should be fine getting the approval since there are very few neuro residencies in the country. If you can get the approval, you will be able to to get your liscence in PA once you pass step 3. A freind of mine was in the same situation 2 years ago, but he was in Michigan and that's what he did.

Good luck

I read about Res 42, and not being a DO, I don't know how difficult it would be to get the waiver, but that sounds like it would be the way I would go if I were in this situation.

Why is it the AOA rotating internship is is considered different from ACGME internships (unless you get a waiver through Res 42)? I've looked into some of the discussion on the Osteopathic Medicine forums, but I guess on some level, I don't see why a distinction is made, particularly in terms of licensure. I didn't realize this was even an issue until I had interviewed for a prelim when I went to CAMC in Charleston, WV (my home state) when I met candidates for a "fast-track" IM residency (in which the AOA internship year was somehow integrated in the ACGME internal medicine residency).

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but, it really just makes wonder why there are barriers that keep these perceptions that differences exist (when, as a perception, we're trying to lessen these distinctions).

 

[DO_2007]

I read about Res 42, and not being a DO, I don't know how difficult it would be to get the waiver, but that sounds like it would be the way I would go if I were in this situation.

Why is it the AOA rotating internship is is considered different from ACGME internships (unless you get a waiver through Res 42)? I've looked into some of the discussion on the Osteopathic Medicine forums, but I guess on some level, I don't see why a distinction is made, particularly in terms of licensure. I didn't realize this was even an issue until I had interviewed for a prelim when I went to CAMC in Charleston, WV (my home state) when I met candidates for a "fast-track" IM residency (in which the AOA internship year was somehow integrated in the ACGME internal medicine residency).

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but, it really just makes wonder why there are barriers that keep these perceptions that differences exist (when, as a perception, we're trying to lessen these distinctions).

I agree, it should not be that way. But, for some reason Neurology is the only speciality, as far as I know, does not accept the osteopathic internship, unless it is accredited by the ACGME also (dual accredited). why? I have no clue. I'm lucky that I matched in OHIO (it is not one of the 5 states) but i'm thinking about Florida in the future, so i will work on res. 42 and like I said before, it is very easy to get approved simply because there is not enough osteopathic neuro residencies.

 

[bustbones26]

Okay all I have a PA license and am a DO so let me clarify how to go about doing this.

**The requirements for a license in PA is to do an osteopathic internship
**The requirements to sit the the ABPN board exam, i.e. do an ACGME neurology residency is to perform an internship with six months of internal medicine rotations, one month of gen peds, and one month of ER as an intern

Combine the requirements, you can do both easily. You need to keep the director of your internship informed.

My internship year

Infectious Disease
Neurology Ward
ER
General Surgery
CCU
Family Medicine
Vascular Surgery
IM Ward
PEDS
ICU
OB/GYN
Rheumatology
IM Outpatient Clinic

So in summary, Infectious Disease, CCU, IM ward, ICU, Rheumatology, Medicine Clinic all counted as six blocks in internal medicine rotations, You DO NOT have to do six blocks of wards

I did a block of peds and ED was required, and even fit in a month of OB/GYN and an outpatient medicine clinic month needed for osteopathic internship. It all worked out.

My counterpart resident who is an MD graduate did more of a traditional medicine internship except he did less ward months than an IM intern so that he could fit peds and ER into his schedule. As an extra bonus, he got to do two months of neuro ward his internship year as opposed to one.

 

[DO_2007]

Did you do your internship in a DO program, or dual?

 

[bustbones26]

I am at an ACGME program. The catch is, I am at a military facility where asking the AOA for internship approval is almost a given.

 

[kanapen]

I'm a third year osteopathic med student that's planning on applying to a bunch of neuro programs in just a few months (jeez, right around the corner). I was wondering if anybody that's gone through the match from a D.O. school think that it's better to aim for the best teaching prelim program available (and hope that there's some way around those five states with licensure issues) or go to an osteopathic internship, which may not have as useful training when it comes to being a neurologist. Thanks, and congrats to all those that matched for 2007.

 

[DO_2007]

I'm a third year osteopathic med student that's planning on applying to a bunch of neuro programs in just a few months (jeez, right around the corner). I was wondering if anybody that's gone through the match from a D.O. school think that it's better to aim for the best teaching prelim program available (and hope that there's some way around those five states with licensure issues) or go to an osteopathic internship, which may not have as useful training when it comes to being a neurologist. Thanks, and congrats to all those that matched for 2007.

It is very easy to fight the AOA to get your prelim year approved as a neurologist, for 2 reasons:

1. To do a neurology residency (ACGME), you have to do an ACGME approved prelim year, osteopathic internship is not acceptable, unless it is a dual program.

2. There is no enough osteopathic neurology residency spots, it is like 5-6 programs nationwide.

So, according to the AOA website (under res. 42), you meet the requirements.

Good luck

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

I agree, it should not be that way. But, for some reason Neurology is the only speciality, as far as I know, does not accept the osteopathic internship, unless it is accredited by the ACGME also (dual accredited). why? I have no clue. I'm lucky that I matched in OHIO (it is not one of the 5 states) but i'm thinking about Florida in the future, so i will work on res. 42 and like I said before, it is very easy to get approved simply because there is not enough osteopathic neuro residencies.

I will mostly likely be applying for allopathic ophthalmology programs. I had the most perfect DO internship in mind. Amazing benefits, awesome pay, GREAT schedule. A country club of sorts. Everything was all planned out in my mind...

Until I found out on the ophtho forum on SDN that the American Board of Ophthalmology will NOT accept an AOA-accredited internship! I even called the ABO to make sure this was correct. Her exact words (or so) "The ABO decided back in the 70's that they will ONLY accept ACGME-accredited internships. This is unlikely to change anytime soon."

Being that I seldom accept the status quo, I contacted the AOA to see what, if any, dialogue had occured with the ABO regarding this ridiculous requirement. For a split second, I thought maybe I could change things. Unfortunately, the AOA gave me the run around. Clearly, I was a bit disappointed. Now I'm confined to a few dually-approved programs (and many are not in the most desireable places) or just gun for a cush allopathic transitional year and then apply for Resolution 42.

I haven't even applied yet and my frustration with the AOA and ABO has already started!

 

[cliff]

And FYI-

DO + AOA Internship + ACGME Neuro Program = have to take DO Boards
DO + ACGME Prelim Medicine Internship + ACGME Neuro = have to take MD boards

What is critical about this? MD Boards now have in-house oral part while DO Boards continue to have oral-boards.

Other differences- can never become a full member of the AAN is you split the training- believe highest membership is Affiliate. Has been a while since I checked on this one.

My path - DO Med School to ACGME Prelim Medicine to ACGME Adult Neuro.

In the long run- probably not a big difference.

 

[kanapen]

thanks for the heads up

 

[melmc]

There is some great information here--hopefully helpful to some of this year's applicants.

Does anyone know if the new osteopathic internship structuring changes any of this?

 

[brainhead]

This is soo frustrating. I thought I had everything clear in my head until I logged onto eras to apply for my dually accredited osteopathic internship program.

I am applying for neurology. What kind of an AOA internship do I need. Do I apply for a traditional rotating internship that is dually accredited? Or do I apply for an osteopathic internship that has an IM speciality track?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can explain this to me!!!

 

[CatsandCradles]

I will mostly likely be applying for allopathic ophthalmology programs. I had the most perfect DO internship in mind. Amazing benefits, awesome pay, GREAT schedule. A country club of sorts. Everything was all planned out in my mind...

Until I found out on the ophtho forum on SDN that the American Board of Ophthalmology will NOT accept an AOA-accredited internship! I even called the ABO to make sure this was correct. Her exact words (or so) "The ABO decided back in the 70's that they will ONLY accept ACGME-accredited internships. This is unlikely to change anytime soon."

Being that I seldom accept the status quo, I contacted the AOA to see what, if any, dialogue had occured with the ABO regarding this ridiculous requirement. For a split second, I thought maybe I could change things. Unfortunately, the AOA gave me the run around. Clearly, I was a bit disappointed. Now I'm confined to a few dually-approved programs (and many are not in the most desireable places) or just gun for a cush allopathic transitional year and then apply for Resolution 42.

I haven't even applied yet and my frustration with the AOA and ABO has already started!

Whoa.

I'm sorry to read about your predicament. I know that you wrote this in March 2007 and now it's October 2007. I hope you were able to work something constructive out of all this since these several months

 

[melmc]

This is soo frustrating. I thought I had everything clear in my head until I logged onto eras to apply for my dually accredited osteopathic internship program.

I am applying for neurology. What kind of an AOA internship do I need. Do I apply for a traditional rotating internship that is dually accredited? Or do I apply for an osteopathic internship that has an IM speciality track?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can explain this to me!!!

I'm not sure I can explain much, but if you're applying to the osteopathic side, I do remember seeing PGY1 years that had a "neurology emphasis" checkbox... perhaps that's what you want. Also, this has a little bit of explaination: http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/Attention_Students-Match_Information.pdf

I understand your frustration... I ended up giving up on the whole osteopathic side all together and will only be interviewing/ranking allopathic programs, due mostly to geographic reasons, financial constraints of applying to both, and preference for future fellowship opportunities.

Goodluck with your application!

 

[lilsimi2009]

i'm sure this topic has been discussed extensively, but i am wondering...especially in regard to neuro... will allopathic programs accept the comlex? any hospital's website that i go to that has residency apps has a box for usmle, but no comlex.
it was mentioned in this thread that one person gave up on the osteopathic side altogether. is this common because there are so few neuro osteopathic programs? and if so, if i want to do allopathic neuro, am i at a huge disadvantage because i only took the comlex?