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Hi all,
I'm not sure if you have been following a recent discussion on the APPIC post-doc network, but the topic of federal gov't positions (primarily VA) that require APA-accredited internships has been raised. It started with a poster who inquired as to whether exceptions can be made and upon what grounds. It think erupted (politely) into a discussion about the fairness of the requirement altogether. Just wanted to share and elicit thoughts from SNDers on this issue. I can say that I am squarely on the side of the pro-regulators on this one.
Just as an FYI, here are two of today's postings.
One from Dr. Keilin in response to the original question:
And one from the opposite view:
I'm not sure if you have been following a recent discussion on the APPIC post-doc network, but the topic of federal gov't positions (primarily VA) that require APA-accredited internships has been raised. It started with a poster who inquired as to whether exceptions can be made and upon what grounds. It think erupted (politely) into a discussion about the fairness of the requirement altogether. Just wanted to share and elicit thoughts from SNDers on this issue. I can say that I am squarely on the side of the pro-regulators on this one.
Just as an FYI, here are two of today's postings.
One from Dr. Keilin in response to the original question:
Accreditation is a serious and important issue. It's something that helps to ensure quality and informs the public about the quality of education and training that someone receives.
Put yourself in the consumer role for a moment: How would you feel about having a surgeon operate on you if that individual had attend an unaccredited medical school, internship, and/or residency? That surgeon may be a fine surgeon, but how would you know, as a consumer, that they have received training that meets the standards of the profession? Consumers trust their lives to psychologists, just like they do to surgeons, and we absolutely have to have standards in order to protect and inform the public.
You are correct that excellent psychologists can emerge from non-accredited programs (just like awful psychologists can emerge from accredited ones). Nevertheless, as much as we might want the internship imbalance to be solved, my personal opinion is that we cannot afford to lower our standards simply to create internships. Instead, we need to emphasize quality and work as hard as we can to create new, ACCREDITED internship programs that will address the demand for positions.
As much as anyone, I understand the problem of the internship imbalance and the impact that it has on students. As you have seen me state elsewhere, it's a terrible situation, and forces students to make difficult decisions. Whether or not to attend an unaccredited internship is a very personal decision, given the potential risks involved, and APPIC has worked to provide information in order for students to make informed decisions. The link that I sent in my last message outlines those risks. Students need to understand that accepting a non-accredited internship means that they could be shut out of certain opportunities, just like attending a non-accredited undergraduate or graduate program in many professions. That may sound unfair, and maybe it is, but that's the reality of the situation.
Having said the above, I cannot speak for the VA as to why they made such a decision. However, the page that I referenced in my last e-mail includes the contact information for someone at the VA Central Office, and I believe that he would welcome any inquiries about their policies.
Hope that helps.
Greg
And one from the opposite view:
Dear Greg,
While I understand that APA accreditation does guarantee a certain quality of training, the problem, as I see it, is not that someone with an apa internship can automatically check off a box and get an interview, but that others are not even allowed to demonstrate the quality of their training. Yes, with medicine you want accredited training, BUT, there are NO shortages of residencies for medicine. I've known several people who couldn't get into MD programs in America who went to other COUNTRIES and still secured fantastic residencies here. On the contrary, many of us went to good programs, did well, and for various reasons did not get accredited internships. It's not as if most decent students gets something accredited and it's just the bottom of the barrel who don't. Some of the best students I've known, with some of the top interviews, didn't match. It doesn't seem right to me that the odds are stacked against students and then so many doors are closed for their entire careers. We work very hard; we should be entitled to get a degree with every possibility open to us.
So here are some suggestions given the insufficient number of apa internships:
1. Just like with licensure, why can't students demonstrate via hours, supervision, training, etc. the quality of their internship in order to get post-docs, and possibly even a VA position.
2. Allow some other avenue for students who do non-accredited internships-- extra hours, oral exam, written exam, meeting with a board, etc. that will give a student the equivalent of having an apa accredited internship-- this could be after 1 year or 10, and even done by the apa to get their stamp of approval on the individual's training. This individual could then apply for VA positions or work in the states that only allow apa internships.
3. Give the Ph.D. BEFORE internship. Just like med students get their MDs after 4 years, they go on to work at hospitals with their degree. If we were at hospitals with a Ph.D. already, perhaps they could get reimbursed for the work of the interns and therefore make more internships available. That might solve the problem for the future, but it doesn't help those of use who already have done or are embarking upon non-accredited internships.