MD App Timing: Late or Wait? (TX Resident)

[Kmdc]

Problem:

Application, including the MCAT score, may not be ready by earliest possible submission date for the TMDSAS or, potentially, the AMCAS during the 2015-16 application cycle.

Thus, I am looking for feedback on when the latest possible date for a competitive submission would be for each application, to Texas schools as a Texas resident, before I start to show more potential harm than good by gaining "re-applicant stigma" in subsequent cycles.

As my goal is to minimize my overall medical education debt load, delaying a year would incur an extra year of living expenses, and one less year of physician practice, which is both economically costly and costly to the community I hope to serve, it seems that it may be worthwhile to risk a slightly late application to potentially avoid these issues with delaying.

However, how late is too late, do we think? When should I just commit to sitting out until the next cycle, when my application will be stronger, due to a longer accumulation of relevant ECs, and a submission at the earliest possible dates for each application?

Thank you very much for your consideration and support. I look forward to hearing from you. Please have a wonderful day.

Details:

Texas Resident. I hope to attend medical school in Texas, due to the low total cost of attendance here. I plan to submit AMCAS (Baylor) and TMDSAS (All Texas MD Schools).

I am not considering out-of-state, as merit scholarships seem rare and unlikely to result in a more economical situation than Texas schools for a Texas resident, it seems. (Does that seem right, based on my stats below?)

TMDSAS:
- GPA: 4.0cum/4.0BCPM
- Earliest Application Submission Date: May 1
- Top schools: El Paso, Lubbock, Edinburg [As these are low cost of living areas with low cost of attendance medical schools.] (Please note, these schools seem to be considered the least competitive of those in Texas, and, thus, may be less competitive to matriculate into.)

AMCAS:
- GPA: 3.93cum/~3.93BCPM
- Earliest Application Submission Date: June 3
- Likely only applying to Baylor, as stats and standard ECs seem unlikely to bring much in terms of merit scholarships that will make out-of-state costs similar to Texas costs.

MCAT: Still preparing as I continue with some other activities, namely work and volunteering. Aiming for a score of 33 or above, based on old MCAT scoring standards and my desire not to devalue my competitive GPA. (Will determine readiness based on achieving practice scores >=35, on average.)

I am especially interested in feedback from our extremely generous SDN AdComs (such as @Goro @gyngyn @LizzyM @Catalystik ) and those with experience with medical school admissions (@DrMidlife appears to have earned an informal doctorate in this). However, if you feel knowledgeable enough to provide valuable feedback, please do not hesitate to do so.

Thanks, again. Please have an excellent day.

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[Kmdc]

I should add that while what I have been fortunate enough to learn on SDN leads me to believe that I should delay for the strongest possible application, which would be the one that is complete near the opening of the application cycle, wonderfully uplifting results like @clairephillips , who received her MCAT score in September, obtained four interview invites through TMDSAS, and achieved one post-interview, pre-match acceptance into El Paso, entice me to take a risk and apply later in the cycle to potentially prevent another year delay in my medical training.

(More on claire's success, for anyone interested: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...31-mcat-texas-resident.1098095/#post-15966391 ) [Congratulations, claire ]

 

[clairephillips]

Well that makes me feel awesome! For me to be able to give the best advice I can, could you kindly let us know your target date for app completion. FYI, while they say your favorite medical school should be the one that admits you and I do love my schools, my original dream school rejected me without an interview because of my late app and this really is a crapshoot. Earlier is certainly better, but yes, getting in somewhere is absolutely possible with mid to late apps. In the end, I simply couldn't stand waiting another year and working when I could be fulfilling a lifelong dream and really making difference. Best of luck in whatever you decide!

 

[Goro]

You should be fine even in July.

Problem:

Application, including the MCAT score, may not be ready by earliest possible submission date for the TMDSAS or, potentially, the AMCAS during the 2015-16 application cycle.

Thus, I am looking for feedback on when the latest possible date for a competitive submission would be for each application, to Texas schools as a Texas resident, before I start to show more potential harm than good by gaining "re-applicant stigma" in subsequent cycles.

As my goal is to minimize my overall medical education debt load, delaying a year would incur an extra year of living expenses, and one less year of physician practice, which is both economically costly and costly to the community I hope to serve, it seems that it may be worthwhile to risk a slightly late application to potentially avoid these issues with delaying.

However, how late is too late, do we think? When should I just commit to sitting out until the next cycle, when my application will be stronger, due to a longer accumulation of relevant ECs, and a submission at the earliest possible dates for each application?

Thank you very much for your consideration and support. I look forward to hearing from you. Please have a wonderful day.

Details:

Texas Resident. I hope to attend medical school in Texas, due to the low total cost of attendance here. I plan to submit AMCAS (Baylor) and TMDSAS (All Texas MD Schools).

I am not considering out-of-state, as merit scholarships seem rare and unlikely to result in a more economical situation than Texas schools for a Texas resident, it seems. (Does that seem right, based on my stats below?)

TMDSAS:
- GPA: 4.0cum/4.0BCPM
- Earliest Application Submission Date: May 1
- Top schools: El Paso, Lubbock, Edinburg [As these are low cost of living areas with low cost of attendance medical schools.] (Please note, these schools seem to be considered the least competitive of those in Texas, and, thus, may be less competitive to matriculate into.)

AMCAS:
- GPA: 3.93cum/~3.93BCPM
- Earliest Application Submission Date: June 3
- Likely only applying to Baylor, as stats and standard ECs seem unlikely to bring much in terms of merit scholarships that will make out-of-state costs similar to Texas costs.

MCAT: Still preparing as I continue with some other activities, namely work and volunteering. Aiming for a score of 33 or above, based on old MCAT scoring standards and my desire not to devalue my competitive GPA. (Will determine readiness based on achieving practice scores >=35, on average.)

I am especially interested in feedback from our extremely generous SDN AdComs (such as @Goro @gyngyn @LizzyM @Catalystik ) and those with experience with medical school admissions (@DrMidlife appears to have earned an informal doctorate in this). However, if you feel knowledgeable enough to provide valuable feedback, please do not hesitate to do so.

Thanks, again. Please have an excellent day.

 

[Kmdc]

TL;DR:

• I think claire's fantastic, and I am so happy to see her effort paying off, despite the obstacle she shared where a late application seems to have kept her out of her dream school. Thanks to her for her feedback so far.
  
• My target date for application completion seems to be solely based on when I can sit for the MCAT. Content review is taking longer than I expected, so it is currently difficult to predict when that test date will be.
  
  • Rushing the MCAT seems like a bad idea, as a low-score tend to devalue a high GPA (which I have), and also serves to devalue all future MCAT scores, which, the AAMC seems to recommend that schools average, which could significantly hamper my competitiveness as an applicant in all application cycles.
• However, I have a tendency to meet the diagnostic criteria for perfectionism, and I want to make sure my belief that I need a competitive MCAT score (which I probably do, as a non-trad further out from courses taken from 2004-2009,) and the earliest possible application, to allow for the most competitive application cycle, is accurate.
  
• My sincerest thanks to anyone who might consider providing more feedback, as I hope that this discussion will benefit the wider SDN community like I have benefited from discussions like it in the past.
• The application cycle is often referred to as a "crapshoot," and I am simply hoping to work together to better understand the odds involved.

---
I think you definitely should feel awesome, claire It's great to see the hard work paying off. Thanks for sharing the good news with the rest of us, as it's certainly encouraging.

My target date for application completion seems to be wholly based on when I will be prepared to sit for the MCAT, which is why it is difficult to predict. I have been using WikiPremed's sequence for content review of the traditional MCAT material, which has been wonderful, and I plan to transition to the Khan MCAT 2015 collection for the new content. However, mastery of the MCAT material seems to exceed the level of mastery I achieved, which was more in tune with what the professors wanted me to learn, when I took the courses from 2004-2009. However, I am confident that if I invest the time and effort, I can achieve a competitive MCAT score, which should also help schools feel confident I can handle medical school material despite the distance between the coursework and my matriculation.

The MCAT test date I was aiming for was going to be the earliest possible in April, to allow me to have a score by May, in time for the TMDSAS application to open. However, since content review is taking longer than I had anticipated, especially in light of my other responsibilities competing for time, I may not be prepared for an April test date.

Thus, my inquiry was basically attempting to figure out when in the cycle would be "too late" to consider submitting, and do more harm than good for my chances of acceptance, based on my qualities as an applicant and goals for a cost-effective and successful medical education.

I believe the AdComs, particularly @Goro , have mentioned that a low MCAT has a tendency to devalue to a high-GPA, so I would hate to try to rush the MCAT for a more timely application, since a low MCAT score also seems to devalue all subsequent scores. (I believe the AAMC recommends that AdCom's average our MCAT scores, as @gyngyn and @Catalystik discussed recently, if I recall.)

However, I feel I have a tendency to over-prepare, and strive for the perfect when the good would be sufficient, which is why I was hoping to find out when we feel that an application is typically too late to do much good for an applicant. I want to make sure I am not putting undue emphasis in the value of submitting the application as early in the cycle as possible. Yet I also know that the SDN sense is that reapplicants are often viewed much more negatively by AdComs than first-time applicants, so it appears my desire to apply with the strongest possible application, which seems to require submission as early as possible in the cycle, might be warranted. My current trajectory seems to suggest that this would be impossible to achieve in the 2015-2016 cycle, based on the pace of my MCAT prep.

claire: Your success, despite the dream school rejection, is encouraging, but appears to be exceptional based on the consensus view on SDN. Thus, I wanted to make sure that my opinion of the consensus view is accurate, and that I am not just being held back by my desire to have a more-perfect application to maximize my chances of acceptance, when the actual returns might be much more diminishing.

Does that make sense?

I also hope that others may be able to benefit from the feedback I get. So we will have to see if others are compassionate enough to helpfully chime in. As you mentioned, I am definitely eager to continue on in my medical pursuits, and it would be nice to start the training process earlier rather than later.

I just don't want impatience to be the flaw that significantly hampers my aspirations, which seems to be the case with many students who go for more seemingly immediate solutions, like med school in the Caribbean, only to find out that patience and persistence at gaining a US acceptance would have been the far better choice for their futures in medicine.

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks, @Goro . That's very helpful to hear.

 

[gyngyn]

Texas is its own special situation. As long as I have been in this business (35 years), I have learned that what may be true in CA or in the rest of the country may not hold (or hold as much) in TX. Thus, I only offer a validated opinion to TX applicants regarding their OOS odds.

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks, @gyngyn . Do you have any advice on how to learn more about the TX admission standards? I am a little hesitant to believe that the AdComs at the TX schools would be as forthcoming as the AdComs we have on SDN, but if you (or anyone else) feels otherwise, could you recommend who I should seek out in the Admissions departments for their insight?

So the current consensus view appears to be that, in terms of application timeliness:
AMCAS: After July, applications become less competitive simply due to a later date of submission.
TMDSAS: A mystery

If I start contacting Texas AdComs on my own, I will be sure to report back on what I learn. Thanks, again, and I look forward to what anyone else may have to offer. Please have a great day.

 

[clairephillips]

Kmdc, thanks again for the kind words. My point was really that while getting in somewhere was truly possible with your GPA and probable MCAT score as well as a strong app otherwise, setting your heart on one or two schools could set you up for disappointment. In the end, I knew I could be happy anywhere, and I could honestly say that I saw myself thriving in every single school for different reasons, so the risk paid off. When I took the MCAT, I did so with some
coursework that I hadn't seen since 1999, I had to teach full time up until June 5th, and I desperately needed study time, so I pushed myself, studying 12 to 15 hours a day for the two months I had between the last day of one school year and the first day of meetings for the next. Under my circumstances, I'd apply late even if I had it to do over. Still, if you have time to do so, get yourself ready sooner. If you were to take the MCAT in June and apply right after while waiting for your scores, for instance, you'd be verified about the same time as you got your scores back. In the meantime, just prewrite your secondaries so you can submit them as soon as you are certified and you'd still have two months extra study time and be complete by early July. I don't see much detrimental about that except you may get a few later interviews. OP, did you ever play Oregon Trail? Set forth too early and wait at frozen rivers, set forth too late and get stuck on the trail. This is a similar balancing act. In my partially experienced opinion, July's the sweet spot.

By the way, content review helps, but I saw the biggest jump in my scores when I could really start doing problems on a routine basis, then finding my vulnerabilities, then watching Chads videos on the subject, then doing the PR Science Workbook to affirm that knowledge. Don't get bogged down in detailed minutiae. I know your scores are already higher than mine, but content review simply wasn't as beneficial to me. I read nearly every post on the MCAT forum for a few months and that's also the consensus there, even with the giant scores.

Good luck, again. Apply in early June, complete by early July, but don't wait as long as I did. I got lucky and had an app that resonated, for whatever reason, with four good schools.

 

[clairephillips]

Oh yeah, also look at the results of the Texas specific threads. They will be quite useful to see other experiences besides just mine.

 

[Afford]

Your GPA is very high and depending on your MCAT, you will probably be fine with getting an interview at every Texas school. I feel the most important thing is getting an interview before pre-match day as you can get pre-match offers. Also, Baylor hands out most of its acceptances after their interview season is over, so I don't think interviewing early vs. later makes a huge difference. Texas schools usually interview about 25% of all in-state applicants, so they are less selective than OOS schools that interview anywhere from 5% to 15% of applicants. I feel that as long as you are complete before September 1, you'll probably be fine if your MCAT and letters are strong because you'll get interviews in September for October, which is early enough for pre-match consideration.

Also, if your family doesn't make a lot of money (i.e. working class), some schools have need-based aid packages that will make the med school cost less than Texas schools. I interviewed at a school that offered a full tuition need-based aid package if your family makes under a certain amount. Also, Mayo Clinic is probably cheaper than Texas schools as their average graduate has much less in loans than any Texas school, but I didn't apply there.

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks, again, for all the feedback, claire. That is all wonderfully helpful, and I appreciate the clarification.

I am definitely not overly concerned with getting into any one particular school, I was just hoping to emphasize that I was going to rank them in Texas based on cost of attendance, which some might find unconventional, and it may alter the advice I should operate under as a result.

It really is fantastic to see all your hard work pay off so well for you. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with the application process. I will certainly take all that you have shared here to heart, in addition to everything else you have been kind enough to share on SDN.

Thanks, as well, for your insight, Afford. The information about my likelihood of getting interviews in Texas with a competitive MCAT is valuable, especially in the context of the application timeline. It's nice to know I still might be able to remain competitive for a 2015-16 cycle.

Thanks for the insight into non-Texas schools being potentially cheaper, too. At this point, I am a little hesitant applying too broadly out of state, though, as the consensus seems to be that few OOS schools interview Texas residents, as Texans are unlikely to consider them without substantial scholarships. In addition, I would need to further investigate how the TMDSAS matching process may complicate the AMCAS process.

From this, it appears that, as the Match takes place in February, and match offers typically must be accepted no later than two weeks after they are made, any AMCAS acceptance after around mid-February seem like they might jeopardize my spot at a TMDSAS school:

"With the exception of offers received during the pre-match period, only the most unusual of circumstances justify an applicant’s holding a place in the entering class of more than one US school for more than two weeks since this may adversely affect other applicants. The schools; therefore, reserve the right to withdraw offers of acceptance to individuals who hold places for longer periods without specific authorization from the schools involved. Applicants may withdraw active applications from any school any time during the application period.

Applicants may hold multiple offers of acceptance from the TMDSAS medical schools as well as other non-TMDSAS schools such as Baylor College of Medicine. By May 15 of the matriculation year (April 15 for schools whose first day of class is on or before July 30), each applicant who has received an offer of acceptance from more than one school must choose the specific school at which the applicant prefers to enroll and withdraw his or her application from all other schools from which acceptance offers have been received."
https://www.tmdsas.com/medical/acceptance_Match_info.html

Presuming I am interpreting that correctly. I will likely investigate this further with TMDSAS, though, just to be sure.

I am eternally grateful to all members of the SDN community for their insight, compassion and support. I have learned a great deal from this forum, and I feel far better prepared for a career as a physician based on the education I have gained from this incredible community.

I look forward to any additional insight anyone might share. Thanks, again.

 

[texan2414]

For all TMDSAS, shoot for application submission by early June! I have noticed myself in past two cycles that early bird takes the worm (interviews), and with TX schools, the earlier you interview, the better the chance you have at prematch offers.

I myself will be applying to TMDSAS this year and I will be sending my app by May 15th along with transcripts, LORS, etc. I know UT Houston committee starts downloading apps mid June along with UTMB. Texas Tech Lubbock even starts sending interview invites end of July-ish. UT schools start interviewing mid-August.

I will tell you that longer you wait to submit, the longer TMDSAS will take to transmit your app to schools, and the longer you will have to wait for interviews. For example, if a student sends their app to TMDSAS in mid-July/August, TMDSAS prolly won't transmit their apps to schools until late Aug/early Sept. By that time, interview slots UP TO and including Oct might be full and your left with a very small number of slots. So plan to submit your app in a timely manner.

If I were to label a time period as "late", it would definitely be July/Aug. If you have to submit your app then, you will have some trouble with the cycle.

 

[Afford]

Thanks, again, for all the feedback, claire. That is all wonderfully helpful, and I appreciate the clarification.

I am definitely not overly concerned with getting into any one particular school, I was just hoping to emphasize that I was going to rank them in Texas based on cost of attendance, which some might find unconventional, and it may alter the advice I should operate under as a result.

It really is fantastic to see all your hard work pay off so well for you. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with the application process. I will certainly take all that you have shared here to heart, in addition to everything else you have been kind enough to share on SDN.

Thanks, as well, for your insight, Afford. The information about my likelihood of getting interviews in Texas with a competitive MCAT is valuable, especially in the context of the application timeline. It's nice to know I still might be able to remain competitive for a 2015-16 cycle.

Thanks for the insight into non-Texas schools being potentially cheaper, too. At this point, I am a little hesitant applying too broadly out of state, though, as the consensus seems to be that few OOS schools interview Texas residents, as Texans are unlikely to consider them without substantial scholarships. In addition, I would need to further investigate how the TMDSAS matching process may complicate the AMCAS process.

From this, it appears that, as the Match takes place in February, and match offers typically must be accepted no later than two weeks after they are made, any AMCAS acceptance after around mid-February seem like they might jeopardize my spot at a TMDSAS school:

"With the exception of offers received during the pre-match period, only the most unusual of circumstances justify an applicant’s holding a place in the entering class of more than one US school for more than two weeks since this may adversely affect other applicants. The schools; therefore, reserve the right to withdraw offers of acceptance to individuals who hold places for longer periods without specific authorization from the schools involved. Applicants may withdraw active applications from any school any time during the application period.

Applicants may hold multiple offers of acceptance from the TMDSAS medical schools as well as other non-TMDSAS schools such as Baylor College of Medicine. By May 15 of the matriculation year (April 15 for schools whose first day of class is on or before July 30), each applicant who has received an offer of acceptance from more than one school must choose the specific school at which the applicant prefers to enroll and withdraw his or her application from all other schools from which acceptance offers have been received."
https://www.tmdsas.com/medical/acceptance_Match_info.html

Presuming I am interpreting that correctly. I will likely investigate this further with TMDSAS, though, just to be sure.

I am eternally grateful to all members of the SDN community for their insight, compassion and support. I have learned a great deal from this forum, and I feel far better prepared for a career as a physician based on the education I have gained from this incredible community.

I look forward to any additional feedback anyone may have, and I hope everyone reading this is having an incredible day.

You can hold an acceptance to a TMDSAS school and as many AMCAS schools as you want until April 30th. The match process just narrows it down to one TMDSAS school after Feb 2nd or zero if someone doesn't match. Also, for what it's worth, I took the June 21st MCAT and I didn't submit my TMDSAS/AMCAS until I got the score back in mid to late July and I did fine getting interviews inside Texas and my GPA is not a 4.0. However, submitting earlier means that you will get interviews earlier. Outside of Texas was very weird though. I might have gotten more interviews on my AMCAS schools if I submitted it earlier, but I'm happy with where I got interviews from.

 

[EParker37]

For all TMDSAS, shoot for application submission by early June! I have noticed myself in past two cycles that early bird takes the worm (interviews), and with TX schools, the earlier you interview, the better the chance you have at prematch offers.

I myself will be applying to TMDSAS this year and I will be sending my app by May 15th along with transcripts, LORS, etc. I know UT Houston committee starts downloading apps mid June along with UTMB. Texas Tech Lubbock even starts sending interview invites end of July-ish. UT schools start interviewing mid-August.

I will tell you that longer you wait to submit, the longer TMDSAS will take to transmit your app to schools, and the longer you will have to wait for interviews. For example, if a student sends their app to TMDSAS in mid-July/August, TMDSAS prolly won't transmit their apps to schools until late Aug/early Sept. By that time, interview slots UP TO and including Oct might be full and your left with a very small number of slots. So plan to submit your app in a timely manner.

If I were to label a time period as "late", it would definitely be July/Aug. If you have to submit your app then, you will have some trouble with the cycle.

The problem with that is the new MCAT cycle, even students who take the test in april wont see scores until mid june. Just have the app complete and ready to go, with everything complete except for mcat scores and submit by July 1 and it should be plenty early.

 

[texan2414]

The problem with that is the new MCAT cycle, even students who take the test in april wont see scores until mid june. Just have the app complete and ready to go, with everything complete except for mcat scores and submit by July 1 and it should be plenty early.

That's what I meant essentially. Have all the app materials submitted. MCAT submission is no biggie as it is electronically uploaded when you release from THx.

 

[clairephillips]

The problem with that is the new MCAT cycle, even students who take the test in april wont see scores until mid june. Just have the app complete and ready to go, with everything complete except for mcat scores and submit by July 1 and it should be plenty early.

Whoa! It is going to take nearly two months for scores to be released next cycle??? That's going to dramatically change the cycle!

 

[EParker37]

Whoa! It is going to take nearly two months for scores to be released next cycle??? That's going to dramatically change the cycle!

Yeah, I believe the official word was the april test releases scores on june 16th and the may 22nd exam releases june 30th.

Heres the schedule link: https://www.aamc.org/students/download/398880/data/mcat2015calendar.pdf

 

[clairephillips]

Oookay, I guess that changes the timeline some, OP. May 22nd would probably be my recommended MCAT date, I guess. :-(

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks, texan2414. Your detailed insight is extremely valuable for those of us going the TMDSAS route. I wish you the absolute best in your upcoming cycle.

Thanks, as well, for the additional feedback Afford. It is great to learn more about what worked for you. (Congratulations on your success ) Thanks as well for your insight into the TMDSAS and AMCAS overlap with acceptances. That makes a lot of sense.

So once we get a match offer, it appears that we can hold onto it and it will not be rescinded if we are still exploring non-TMDSAS schools, even if we hold a single TMDSAS match offer more than two weeks after the TMDSAS match.

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Thanks for the additional insight and discussion taking into account the new MCAT score release timing, everyone. That does change the planning a bit, and is very valuable to keep in mind.

Just to clarify, however, common wisdom on SDN appears to be to hold off on submitting an application until we confirm our MCAT score, to ensure we aren't applying with a poor score. Are we still operating under that wisdom here?

So make sure we have all our LORs, transcripts, and completed applications ready for submission, but delay doing so until we know our MCAT score will make for a competitive cycle. This allows us to avoid having to lock ourselves into the cycle and potentially classify as in re-applicant in a subsequent cycle, based on my understanding. Does that still seem like the preferred method here? Re-applicant stigma does seem like it can be pretty toxic, based on what I have read on SDN, compared to being a first-time applicant.

Thanks, again, for all the feedback and insight. This definitely was far more productive than me trying to mull this over independently, and I hope this thread helps anyone else who may be in a similar circumstance.

Please have an amazing day.

 

[gyngyn]

Verification delays applications. Those waiting on MCAT scores should apply to a "throwaway" school at the opening bell to expedite the application if all turns out well.

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks, gyngyn. It is fantastic to hear an AdCom supporting that verification practice

TMDSAS seems to complicate the process, however, since Texas applicants have a much smaller pool to choose that throwaway school from. I will certainly see what I can do, though. Those of us Texans preferring MD programs might select the DO school as the "throwaway," perhaps, although I believe our DO school has quite a stellar reputation.

Thanks, again, for the valuable advice I have learned a great deal from everything you have been kind enough to share with us on SDN. I sincerely appreciate your effort and generosity. Please have a fantastic day.

 

[clairephillips]

Thanks, gyngyn. It is fantastic to hear an AdCom supporting that verification practice

TMDSAS seems to complicate the process, however, since Texas applicants have a much smaller pool to choose that throwaway school from. I will certainly see what I can do, though. Those of us Texans preferring MD programs might select the DO school as the "throwaway," perhaps, although I believe our DO school has quite a stellar reputation.

Thanks, again, for the valuable advice I have learned a great deal from everything you have been kind enough to share with us on SDN. I sincerely appreciate your effort and generosity. Please have a fantastic day.

KMDC,

Don't forget that there's a few new schools next year. The pool will at least be a little larger than last year, with an extra DO school and two MD schools.

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks, gyngyn. It is fantastic to hear an AdCom supporting that verification practice

TMDSAS seems to complicate the process, however, since Texas applicants have a much smaller pool to choose that throwaway school from. I will certainly see what I can do, though. Those of us Texans preferring MD programs might select the DO school as the "throwaway," perhaps, although I believe our DO school has quite a stellar reputation.

Thanks, again, for the valuable advice I have learned a great deal from everything you have been kind enough to share with us on SDN. I sincerely appreciate your effort and generosity. Please have a fantastic day.

If all turns out well the "throwaway" is none the wiser. Apparently the re-applicant stigma is different in TX, too.

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks for that, claire. I will be sure to keep that in mind. Here's to hoping I can follow in your wonderful footsteps of TMDSAS success. Congratulations, again. It is great to see all your efforts paying off, and thank you for taking the time to share your story, insight, and progress with us on SDN.

Thanks, gyngyn. I just try not to allow my tendency for optimism to cloud my judgment too heavily, and I appreciate you sharing your perspective, especially as it certainly helps me in measuring mine.

Thanks as well for the insight on the TX view of re-applicants. Much of the medical school application process appears to be different in Texas, and I appreciate your support in trying to make better sense of it.

Thanks to everyone else who has been (and may still decide to be) kind enough to share their insights and perspectives. I sincerely appreciate the community support, and I hope others can benefit from our collected knowledge, too

Please have a wonderful day.

 

[Afford]

Good luck! Also, I know with AMCAS, you can add more schools after you submit your application, but I don't know about TMDSAS. You might have to email someone as I don't think you can edit it after you submit.

For your top choices, do you have West Texas ties or family there? If it's just based off cost of living, I don't think there's a huge difference in between schools. When I was in Temple, my student host said he paid about 300 dollars per person with two roommates for a large 3 bedroom house. Also, when I lived in Houston, I paid 300 something for rent+utilities, but I lived with 3 other people in a 2 bedroom apartment and this was an apartment that was connected to the metro rail. There are definitely benefits to having your own room, but if you want to save money on rent, there are always ways to cut down on cost. Also, I think at UTSW, med students can live in apartments that have their rent partially subsidized by the med school. At UT San Antonio, med students told me that the med school/hospital isn't in the downtown area, so rent is cheap as well. So if you love west Texas, then El Paso and Lubbock are great schools and Lubbock offers a 48,000 merit scholarship, but I think cost of living isn't a big enough difference between schools.

Also, the tuition+fees between Texas schools are about the same https://services.aamc.org/tsfreport...ee_sort&year_of_study=2015&select_control=PUB

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks, Afford, especially for the insight regarding the potential differences with AMCAS and TMDSAS. The ability to add additional schools to the TMDSAS would be a key thing to determine, and I will see if I can learn more from TMDSAS about it.

I don't have any real ties to West Texas, except it's closer to family in Arizona and California, although that's not saying much, and I happen to be living in El Paso, so I am familiar with the area and will be involved in the community before and during the application, which I hope will encourage our medical school to take a chance on me. So far, I do like the area, though, and would likely look to settle here longer term based on more extraneous factors like weather and crime, and more pertinent ones like cost of living.

I tend to do better living alone when I am not living with loved ones, I have found, but roommates would be something to consider if I really want to try to save on costs. Thanks for reemphasizing that. I tend to go well beyond the norm in saving utility costs, it appears, so I am a little hesitant to think I could save that much more sharing utility expenses with potentially less frugal roommates, but I have been wrong before.

(And for beyond the norm, I'm referring to practices like these: http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/
However, looking at the chart Bluejay lists for aggressive utility savings vs. much more wasteful use, if I had two completely wasteful roommates, my share of utility costs appear appear to only go up about $70/mo, which seems like it would be more than offset in the rent savings of roommates. Good to know, provided I can find roommates I could live well with, and live with consistently without having to spend too much of my time trying to fill vacancies or manage disputes.)

Is the Lubbock merit scholarship you reference the one for dual degree candidates? According to this post:
"Just a side note, the Lubbock dual degree scholarship is just enough to cover the additional cost of the MBA courses... So technically it doesn't really count as a scholarship." (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-lonestar-state.1012913/page-12#post-14555524)

Or was there another merit scholarship you had in mind?

The largest expenditures for an average consumer appear to be housing, transportation, and food, in that order: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm

Thus, if I can find affordable housing at the other Texas medical schools, especially near the clinical training centers where I will likely be spending most of my time, it appears, as you said, any real differences in cost of attendance seem to be too small to be of note. Thanks for reemphasizing that.

The apartments at UTSW look nice, however, at $805/mo for the smallest, that could add up unless there was a way to squeeze more roommates in there: http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/education/student-services/housing/rent.html

El Paso seems to have a shortage of physicians per capita compared to the other locations, though, so it would be nice to know that I would be helping to address what appears to be a larger community need if I stayed here.

(For anyone making similar comparisons, I find http://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/lubbock_tx/el_paso_tx/costofliving to be an excellent resource.)

Regardless, it's nice to know I appear to have excellent, and affordable, options at any of the Texas schools. Thanks, again, for that, Afford Now it seems to just be a matter of getting a competitive application together to maximize my chances of gaining an acceptance to one of them. Thanks to everyone for all their support in helping me do that.

Please have a fantastic day.

 

[Kmdc]

On adding schools in TMDSAS, it appears that if we e-mail them, TMDSAS can add schools manually: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/tcom-for-oos-applicant.1087143/#post-15490200

That seems like it would get somewhat burdensome for TMDSAS if too many people took advantage of that, but it's nice to know it may still be an option.

Wow. That is the official procedure, it appears:

"How do I add another school once I have submitted my application?
To add additional schools to your application, you must send an email request to TMDSAS at [email protected] or through the internal message system within the application. The request must be received by the application deadline.

Include your full name, TMDSAS ID and list the schools you would like added to your application.

If any additional information is needed, TMDSAS will contact you directly once the request has been received." (https://www.tmdsas.com/frwqAskedQ/02-ChangingYourApp.html)

 

[Afford]

Thanks, Afford, especially for the insight regarding the potential differences with AMCAS and TMDSAS. The ability to add additional schools to the TMDSAS would be a key thing to determine, and I will see if I can learn more from TMDSAS about it.

I don't have any real ties to West Texas, except it's closer to family in Arizona and California, although that's not saying much, and I happen to be living in El Paso, so I am familiar with the area and will be involved in the community before and during the application, which I hope will encourage our medical school to take a chance on me. So far, I do like the area, though, and would likely look to settle here longer term based on more extraneous factors like weather and crime, and more pertinent ones like cost of living.

I tend to do better living alone when I am not living with loved ones, I have found, but roommates would be something to consider if I really want to try to save on costs. Thanks for reemphasizing that. I tend to go well beyond the norm in saving utility costs, it appears, so I am a little hesitant to think I could save that much more sharing utility expenses with potentially less frugal roommates, but I have been wrong before.

(And for beyond the norm, I'm referring to practices like these: http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/
However, looking at the chart Bluejay lists for aggressive utility savings vs. much more wasteful use, if I had two completely wasteful roommates, my share of utility costs appear appear to only go up about $70/mo, which seems like it would be more than offset in the rent savings of roommates. Good to know, provided I can find roommates I could live well with, and live with consistently without having to spend too much of my time trying to fill vacancies or manage disputes.)

Is the Lubbock merit scholarship you reference the one for dual degree candidates? According to this post:
"Just a side note, the Lubbock dual degree scholarship is just enough to cover the additional cost of the MBA courses... So technically it doesn't really count as a scholarship." (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-lonestar-state.1012913/page-12#post-14555524)

Or was there another merit scholarship you had in mind?

The largest expenditures for an average consumer appear to be housing, transportation, and food, in that order: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm

Thus, if I can find affordable housing at the other Texas medical schools, especially near the clinical training centers where I will likely be spending most of my time, it appears, as you said, any real differences in cost of attendance seem to be too small to be of note. Thanks for reemphasizing that.

The apartments at UTSW look nice, however, at $805/mo for the smallest, that could add up unless there was a way to squeeze more roommates in there: http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/education/student-services/housing/rent.html

El Paso seems to have a shortage of physicians per capita compared to the other locations, though, so it would be nice to know that I would be helping to address what appears to be a larger community need if I stayed here.

(For anyone making similar comparisons, I find http://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/lubbock_tx/el_paso_tx/costofliving to be an excellent resource.)

Regardless, it's nice to know I appear to have excellent, and affordable, options at any of the Texas schools. Thanks, again, for that, Afford Now it seems to just be a matter of getting a competitive application together to maximize my chances of gaining an acceptance to one of them. Thanks to everyone for all their support in helping me do that.

Please have a fantastic day.

Most electricity use is for the A/C/heater and fridge, but I've never heard of someone having a 210 dollar electricity bill. I think the most might be around winter, but Texas winters are usually pretty short. I have never lived in rural areas (only suburban or urban areas), but the cost for a studio apartment is always much more than a 2-3 bedroom apartment/house divided up between roommates.

I've been following the Texas posts and the 12k/year for Lubbock is also given to MD-only applicants. Also, I've seen two people post about a 10k/year scholarship for El Paso.

I can't really speak for El Paso/Lubbock rents and you'll know more about how much El Paso rent is especially if you want to live by yourself. Temple is a more rural town, so that explains the cheaper rent and pretty much all med students want their own room if they have roommates. A lot of med students do choose to live by themselves. Half of my student hosts in Texas chose to live by themselves. The UT Southwestern rooms are 1,160 for 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms, so that would be 580 per person. Also, 3 bedroom apartments or 4-6 bedroom houses would knock it down even more.

I do like your reason for staying in El Paso if you already lived there and enjoy the community more. I think when I started the interview process, I really cared about happiness and fit and after the whole interview process, I think those two things are really important because I actually visited a med school outside of Texas that had a med student suicide a few months ago and even though it might not have been related to med school at all, it's very important to be happy with where you are. Also, I put more importance towards Pass/Fail and weather after the interview process. There are two pass/fail schools in Texas, but I know one still has internal ranking and I don't know what the other med school does b/c they just switched to it. Pass/fail helps remove a lot of the gunner mentality. It's a shame that there are no true P/F schools in Texas though (no internal ranking/AOA status).

 

[EParker37]

Thanks, gyngyn. It is fantastic to hear an AdCom supporting that verification practice

TMDSAS seems to complicate the process, however, since Texas applicants have a much smaller pool to choose that throwaway school from. I will certainly see what I can do, though. Those of us Texans preferring MD programs might select the DO school as the "throwaway," perhaps, although I believe our DO school has quite a stellar reputation.

Thanks, again, for the valuable advice I have learned a great deal from everything you have been kind enough to share with us on SDN. I sincerely appreciate your effort and generosity. Please have a fantastic day.

You can submit transcripts for validation as soon as you complete the colleges attended section and they will verify before you even submit the app. At least that's my understanding from the TMDSAS website.

 

[clairephillips]

Most electricity use is for the A/C/heater and fridge, but I've never heard of someone having a 210 dollar electricity bill. I think the most might be around winter, but Texas winters are usually pretty short. I have never lived in rural areas (only suburban or urban areas), but the cost for a studio apartment is always much more than a 2-3 bedroom apartment/house divided up between roommates.

I've been following the Texas posts and the 12k/year for Lubbock is also given to MD-only applicants. Also, I've seen two people post about a 10k/year scholarship for El Paso.

I can't really speak for El Paso/Lubbock rents and you'll know more about how much El Paso rent is especially if you want to live by yourself. Temple is a more rural town, so that explains the cheaper rent and pretty much all med students want their own room if they have roommates. A lot of med students do choose to live by themselves. Half of my student hosts in Texas chose to live by themselves. The UT Southwestern rooms are 1,160 for 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms, so that would be 580 per person. Also, 3 bedroom apartments or 4-6 bedroom houses would knock it down even more.

I do like your reason for staying in El Paso if you already lived there and enjoy the community more. I think when I started the interview process, I really cared about happiness and fit and after the whole interview process, I think those two things are really important because I actually visited a med school outside of Texas that had a med student suicide a few months ago and even though it might not have been related to med school at all, it's very important to be happy with where you are. Also, I put more importance towards Pass/Fail and weather after the interview process. There are two pass/fail schools in Texas, but I know one still has internal ranking and I don't know what the other med school does b/c they just switched to it. Pass/fail helps remove a lot of the gunner mentality. It's a shame that there are no true P/F schools in Texas though (no internal ranking/AOA status).

UTSW is true pass/fail for the preclinical years.

 

[clairephillips]

You can submit transcripts for validation as soon as you complete the colleges attended section and they will verify before you even submit the app. At least that's my understanding from the TMDSAS website.

Transcript validation is different than app validation. It takes about a week for transcript validation, but a little less than a month for app validation.

 

[EParker37]

Transcript validation is different than app validation. It takes about a week for transcript validation, but a little less than a month for app validation.

So the strategy is to submit the app to one school early, get the whole app validated, and then based on the mcat decide to apply to the other schools or retake the mcat first?

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks for the additional insight into the scholarships, Afford. I really appreciate you sharing what you've learned. Here's to hoping I can develop a strong enough application to qualify for one of them

Thanks, as well, for the feedback on housing and utility costs. According to the bestplaces.net website, El Paso seems to have a weather bonus because our humidity is lower, which appears to make sense as I have heard humidity can be a major issue in other parts of Texas. However, as someone born and raised in the CA San Francisco Bay Area, weather and humidity have not been major factors in my life until now, aside from shorter trips out of the area. Based on the areas I have been, the "Comfort Index" at bestplaces seems to correspond well with my experiences, though, so I may find it accurate in making predictions.

Thanks for the insight about happiness and fit. From what I've read in psychology, particularly through the free resources at http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/ , it appears that much of our happiness and satisfaction is based on our perspectives, with very little due to our life circumstances. While I think it's fantastic to know that the research suggests that to be the case, it has also meant that I have needed to learn how to identify other criteria in comparing options and making decisions. As you have seen, cost has turned up as key factor to use, as while the research seems to indicate more money doesn't usually lead to more happiness, it appears that it can if we use it to benefit the lives of others.

While it's unlikely that I will be making enough money to ever qualify to make the "Giving Pledge" that many high-net-worth individuals have made, and pledge large amounts of their net worth to charitable causes, methods like effective altruism and "earning to give" seem appealing, and appear to be something I can reasonably do. That's the plan, anyway, which is probably far easier to make at this point when I'm younger and without dependents.

We'll see, though, as it seems that making meaningful connections and contributions in our community are a wonderful way to maximize life satisfaction. So while we will hopefully have excellent ways to contribute and connect as health professionals, it's nice to know that there are other ways to effectively do so regardless of the trajectory our careers and/or the direct positive impacts we may feel we are making on our communities through them.

Sorry for the tangent. I just wanted to share what I have learned on the happiness front, especially if you or others might be able to similarly benefit

On the Pass/Fail preference, I would definitely agree. However, the knowledge that most schools do continue to internally rank does seem to mean that the sense of security many feel with a P/F system may just be a false sense. Thus, I have started to give that preference slightly less weight as I make my own decisions. As usual, the things I have learned on SDN have helped tremendously in being as informed as possible. (Thank you, SDN community.)

Thanks, again, Afford, for your insights. I really appreciate the support and the opportunity to learn and benefit from what you have been willing to share so far, and anything you, or anyone else, may be kind enough to share in the future.

I hope everything reading this is having a great day, and good luck in all your future pursuits

I am extremely grateful to everyone who has contributed to this thread, and to SDN in general, especially those farther down the path willing to take time to help those of us attempting to follow in your footsteps. Thanks for the kindness and effort, and I will do my best to emulate your excellent examples Please keep up the fantastic work.

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks to EP and claire for their additional insights.

claire's understanding of the TMDSAS transcript validation and application processing procedure seems to correspond with what I have been able to glean from the TMDSAS website. (https://www.tmdsas.com/frwqAskedQ/03-AppProcessing.html )

So it appears the "throwaway" verification procedure that is popular with AMCAS is also the way to operate with TMDSAS, as EP suggested.

With TMDSAS, however, it appears that all additional schools need to be added manually by TMDSAS, after receiving an e-mailed request from the applicant to do so.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback and insight. Please have a great day

 

[EParker37]

Thanks to EP and claire for their additional insights.

claire's understanding of the TMDSAS transcript validation and application processing procedure seems to correspond with what I have been able to glean from the TMDSAS website. (https://www.tmdsas.com/frwqAskedQ/03-AppProcessing.html )

So it appears the "throwaway" verification procedure that is popular with AMCAS is also the way to operate with TMDSAS, as EP suggested.

With TMDSAS, however, it appears that all additional schools need to be added manually by TMDSAS, after receiving an e-mailed request from the applicant to do so.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback and insight. I hope everyone reading this is having a wonderful day

I do want to note, that several of the texas schools just take your best score into consideration, from what I have gathered here on SDN and elsewhere. On UTSW's application timeline, it includes an August - MCAT retake if necessary, timeline point. Which would suggest to me, that they will take into account any re-takes during the cycle. While obviously, it's best to have your MCAT in hand before applying, with the 2015 test taking so long to release scores, it might be ok to go ahead and apply everywhere, and release the score once it is available, and retake if necessary. This new test is messing with all of the a posteriori knowledge from years past, making this cycle wild and un-nerving for a lot of us.

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks, EP. I think it's definitely valuable to know about the "best score" approach from several of the Texas schools, as well as the more detailed analysis of MCAT scores and the TMDSAS application timeline.

We will have to see how the cycle turns out. I wish you, and anyone else applying, the absolute best, and I thank everyone, again, for taking the time to share their wonderful insights.

As usual, I am overjoyed that I decided to bring my inquiry to SDN, as opposed to trying to figure it out on my own, or simply from lurking around on here. I hope anyone managing to come across this thread finds it at least as worthwhile as I have

As always, please have a great day

 

[Afford]

Thanks, EP. I think it's definitely valuable to know about the "best score" approach from several of the Texas schools, as well as the more detailed analysis of MCAT scores and the TMDSAS application timeline.

We will have to see how the cycle turns out. I wish you, and anyone else applying, the absolute best, and I thank everyone, again, for taking the time to share their wonderful insights.

As usual, I am overjoyed that I decided to bring my inquiry to SDN, as opposed to trying to figure it out on my own, or simply from lurking around on here. I hope anyone managing to come across this thread finds it at least as worthwhile as I have

As always, I hope everyone is having a fantastic day

I wouldn't worry too much about multiple mcats. I first read on these forums that it is bad and it's probably true that I didn't get interviews at some schools that I would have if I only took it once, but no interview inside or outside texas has ever mentioned my first mcat score

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks, Afford. That's definitely something to keep in mind.

However, I would love to be able to avoid a multiple MCAT issue if I can, as it seems the potential pitfalls outweigh any possible benefits I might see.

I think it's certainly nice to know multiple MCATs aren't a deal-breaker for a future in medicine, but it seems there are very few of those, and, like most things in life, success is all about time and adherence to the right, evidence-based principles for achieving it.

Thanks to all those who have helped share those proven strategies and insights, especially so that others might be able to similarly benefit

Please have a great day

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks, again, for all the feedback.

Could I please get some confirmation about my sense that "reapplicant status" is something that is worth avoiding, even if it means sitting out a cycle?

My feeling is that if I take a July-September MCAT, based on practice scores showing I am fully prepared to do so, with scores available for release August-October, I will be tempted to submit my complete application at that point. (I would likely wait to pre-verify the application with a throwaway school until I was certain I was be prepared to take the MCAT, to avoid the reapplicant issue that would be triggered with a verified application. This would leave about a month to verify the application, which would then be complete when the MCAT scores were available.)

TMDSAS's application opens for submission May 1, and AMCAS opens June 1, for reference, so this would be quite late in the cycle for both of them. However, as I would hope to make full use out of a competitive MCAT score, it still feels tempting to make an application attempt, even so late in the cycle. No one can get into medical school if they do not apply, and the potential benefit of preventing another year's delay in my medical pursuits is very appealing.

Conversely, as we can see from @DrMidlife 's fantastic re-applicant dissertation:
"Some advisers will tell you that an August MCAT is fine for a same-summer med school app. It's not. It's app suicide." (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/drmidlifes-reapplication-dissertation.942893/)

Regardless of whether or not I am applying in a given cycle, I feel I would involve myself in the same application-strengthening activities, so I would be, essentially, the same quality applicant in the next cycle, albeit as either a "new applicant" or a "reapplicant."

Thus, I would love to hear any thoughts on the costs/benefits of submitting a late application and risking this "reapplicant" stigma, especially from those with experience in admissions.

(@mimelim @SouthernSurgeon @Law2Doc @QofQuimica @DrMidlife @Goro @gyngyn @hushcom @Catalystik @LizzyM @DokterMom @NickNaylor come to mind, in particular. )

Thank you for your consideration, and thank you in advance for any feedback you might be able to provide. I have attempted to search through the forums to better assess this situation, but I am still left unsure of the best course of action.

Thanks to everyone who has participated in this discussion, and anyone who still plans to, and thank you, as always, for all that you have done and continue to do to make SDN such an incredible community and resource.

 

[mimelim]

It is well worth waiting until the next cycle. The basic principle is that we use your history and track record to predict if you will do well in medical school. If you applied to medical schools and failed to enter, it is natural (not right or wrong) to wonder, "why?" When wondering, we tend to over emphasize what has changed since the last admission cycle and it is hard in the space of 6 months (time between the end of one cycle and the beginning of the next) to do a ton to change one's application.

My brother is a 3.8/no MCAT yet at Harvard. I told him the exact same thing almost a year ago. Enjoy your time prior to medical school, learn a lot, experience a lot and then apply early and apply well, only once.

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks, mimelim, I sincerely appreciate the insight.

 

[gyngyn]

Apply once, well.

 

[Goro]

I would amend this to apply once with the best possible app, and as early as possible. Even if it means skipping an app cycle.

Apply once, well.

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks, gyngyn and Goro, for sharing your perspectives, as well.

(Thanks, in addition, to DokterMom, Catalystik, and LizzyM for adding their approval.)

I appreciate the additional clarification, and I hope that others benefit from the insight as much as I have.

Please have an amazing day, and thank you again for all that you have done and continue to do to help make SDN and medical education far better experiences for all of us involved

 

[DrMidlife]

I stand by my statement that an August-or-later MCAT, with the intention to use it immediately in an open MD app, is app suicide. Don't do it.

As glad as I am for folks when they sneak by without doing everything "correctly", I hate the way those stories seem to convince readers that they, too, can get away with doing dumb stuff. Don't do dumb stuff.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Kmdc]

Thanks, DrMidlife. I appreciate the reminder, and I apologize that I was tempted to take an unnecessary risk, despite your clear advice to the contrary.

Thanks for the luck, and for all that you have been kind enough to share on SDN. I look forward to continuing to learn a great deal from what you have done and continue to do to help the rest of us. Best wishes in all your pursuits, as well.

Please have a great day

 

[TexasHopeful1237]

How goes the application? Joined just to get in on this thread lol. I took my mcat may 22 and have pretty much everything done on my application but I'm waiting for this summer program that Texas tech is putting on that ends July 17. I plan to submit my application that weekend, at least by that Monday. My pre med advisor with 20+ years in Texas said anything by mid to late July is what he recommends at the latest to remain competitive, taking into account the verification delay. Let me know how it's been going for you, would be nice to talk to someone about this whole thing lol

 

[Kmdc]

Congratulations on your progress, TexasHopeful. I hope your efforts work out very well for you in the end.

After continuing to prepare my application, and more thoroughly exploring the career options of medicine, especially in light of the valuable perspectives shared on our forums, I have actually come to believe that dentistry may be a better fit for my personal and professional goals.

Dentistry also seems to fit well with my desire to have a career that maximizes my potential for "earning to give," as dentistry seems to offer a greater compensation per hour over medicine. Thus, I may be able work more hours as a dentist and potentially generate a greater income than I could as a physician.

" "Salary/Hours

1. Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeon 336/36 = $179.5/hr
2. Endodontist 303.9/36 = $162.4/hr
3. Pediatric Dentist 294.4/36 = $157.1/hr
4. Orthodontist 279.4/36 = $149.0/hr
5. Orthopedic Surgeon 335.8/54.1 = $119.4/hr
6. Periodontist 216.4/36 = $115.4/hr
7. Pathologist 246.5/41.6 = $114.0/hr
8. Rad (Diag)/Rad Onc 327.7/58.5 = $107.7/hr
9. Prosthodontist 190.9/36 = $102.0/hr
10. Opthalomologist 229.2/43.7 = $100.9/hr
11. Dermatologist 219.5/42 = $100.5/hr
12. EM 220/45 = $94.0/hr
13. General Dentist 173.1/36 = $92.4/hr
14. Neurosurgery / Plastic Surgery 275.2/59.6 = $88.8/hr
15. Urologist 264.5/57.4 = $88.6/hr
16. Surgeon (gen) 263.7/58.2 = $87.1/hr
17. Anesthesiologist 244.7/58.7 = $80.2/hr
18. ENT 214.5/52.1 = $79.2/hr
19. OB/GYN 227/55.7 = $78.4/hr
20. Neurologist 183.1/53.7 = $65.6/hr
21. Psychiatrist 145.7/44 = $63.7/hr
22. IM 164.1/55.6 = $56.8/hr
23. FP 146.5/50.7 = $55.6/hr
24. Pediatrician 137.8/49.4 = $53.6/hr"
(http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/medical-md-vs-dental-school.798348/#post-10604854)"

Shadowing dentists has confirmed this to be a viable path for me, so the preparations have been for the DAT instead of the MCAT.

Thus, it seems I may be "specializing early," so to speak, and going the dental route instead of the medical one. In addition, oral surgery may be a good choice for me, as I have the personal flexibility to devote the time and training commitment to the program, and can hopefully help meet the needs of our community in doing so. I would think the 10 year training path would seem a little daunting for many dental students with more personal obligations than I have.

If I go oral surgery, medical school may still turn out to be a part of my future. We will have to see how things turn out.

A competitive DAT score, and a successful application cycle will be my first steps, however.

Travis Barr, featured in the 12/2014 issue of ASDA News, gained a dental school acceptance after six application cycles:
http://www.asdanet.org/asdanews.aspx

Thus, it seems like with most things in life, effort and persistence tend to pay off.

Good luck in your pursuits, and to all those reading this in theirs. Please have a great day