Applying broadly after a sad result from last year

[Pacna]

Hey, guys. First post. I want to know what y'all think of my chances this year. A bit of a back-story:

I applied last year to 8 MD programs. I'm a MN resident, and I got an interview at UoM-TC. Obviously I didn't get invited to matriculate.

My stats:
3.9 science GPA,
3.86 non-science.
36P MCAT.
I have a huge amount of volunteer experience (awards, too), was an EMT, phlebotomist, and shadowed for countless hours.
No research to speak of.
I just graduated from Michigan State in May.

This year, I'm applying to 9 DO programs and ~12 MD schools. I'm still deliberating on some of the MDs.

What do you guys think of my chances? I was confident I was going to get in last year, but I only got the one interview. I figure if the chances are equal this year, I'll probably get 2-3 interviews. Hopefully 1 acceptance? Are re-applicant chances significantly worse? I feel like not much has changed about my application this year, so I'm a bit anxious.

Thanks!
Rik

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[FalconSlice]

Hey, guys. First post. I want to know what y'all think of my chances this year. A bit of a back-story:

I applied last year to 8 MD programs. I'm a MN resident, and I got an interview at UoM-TC. Obviously I didn't get invited to matriculate.

My stats:
3.9 science GPA,
3.86 non-science.
36P MCAT.
I have a huge amount of volunteer experience (awards, too), was an EMT, phlebotomist, and shadowed for countless hours.
I just graduated from Michigan State in May.

This year, I'm applying to 9 DO programs and ~12 MD schools. I'm still deliberating on some of the MDs.

What do you guys think of my chances? I was confident I was going to get in last year, but I only got the one interview. I figure if the chances are equal this year, I'll probably get 2-3 interviews. Hopefully 1 acceptance? Are re-applicant chances significantly worse? I feel like not much has changed about my application this year, so I'm a bit anxious.

Thanks!
Rik

With all those numbers and experience (which are good!), it makes me worried that your essays and overall application was not well written/received.

 

[Pacna]

Thanks for replying.

I feel much better about the PS I wrote this year, but I still don't really know how to do the 15 work/experience sections. I wrote a paragraph for each one last year, but I'm reading that people do bullets? Should I do that?

And how about my school list?

MD:
Mayo Medical School
Michigan State University
Oregon Health and Science University
Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine
Uni. of North Dakota Sch. of Med. & Hlth. Sci.
University of Central Florida COM
University of Iowa, Carver College of Medicine
University of Minnesota Medical School-Minneapolis/Duluth
University of Washington School of Medicine
University of Wisconsin
Wayne State University School of Medicine

DO:
A.T. Still University, School of Osteopathic Medicine in Arizona, AZ
Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University, AZ
Des Moines University College of Osteopathic Medicine, IA
Edward Via College of Osteopathic Medicine - Carolinas Campus, SC
Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine - Bradenton Campus, FL
Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine, MI
Nova Southeastern University College of Osteopathic Medicine, FL
Rocky Vista University, College of Osteopathic Medicine, CO
Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine - California, CA
University of New England College of Osteopathic Medicine, ME
Western University of Health Sciences/College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific - Lebanon, OR

 

[Dreamstoo]

Hey, guys. First post. I want to know what y'all think of my chances this year. A bit of a back-story:

I applied last year to 8 MD programs. I'm a MN resident, and I got an interview at UoM-TC. Obviously I didn't get invited to matriculate.

My stats:
3.9 science GPA,
3.86 non-science.
36P MCAT.
I have a huge amount of volunteer experience (awards, too), was an EMT, phlebotomist, and shadowed for countless hours.
No research to speak of.
I just graduated from Michigan State in May.

This year, I'm applying to 9 DO programs and ~12 MD schools. I'm still deliberating on some of the MDs.

What do you guys think of my chances? I was confident I was going to get in last year, but I only got the one interview. I figure if the chances are equal this year, I'll probably get 2-3 interviews. Hopefully 1 acceptance? Are re-applicant chances significantly worse? I feel like not much has changed about my application this year, so I'm a bit anxious.

Thanks!
Rik

Did you apply too top heavy last year?

 

[Dreamstoo]

Thanks for replying.

I feel much better about the PS I wrote this year, but I still don't really know how to do the 15 work/experience sections. I wrote a paragraph for each one last year, but I'm reading that people do bullets? Should I do that?

And how about my school list?

MD:
Mayo Medical School
Michigan State University
Oregon Health and Science University
Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine
Uni. of North Dakota Sch. of Med. & Hlth. Sci.
University of Central Florida COM
University of Iowa, Carver College of Medicine
University of Minnesota Medical School-Minneapolis/Duluth
University of Washington School of Medicine
University of Wisconsin
Wayne State University School of Medicine

DO:
A.T. Still University, School of Osteopathic Medicine in Arizona, AZ
Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University, AZ
Des Moines University College of Osteopathic Medicine, IA
Edward Via College of Osteopathic Medicine - Carolinas Campus, SC
Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine - Bradenton Campus, FL
Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine, MI
Nova Southeastern University College of Osteopathic Medicine, FL
Rocky Vista University, College of Osteopathic Medicine, CO
Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine - California, CA
University of New England College of Osteopathic Medicine, ME
Western University of Health Sciences/College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific - Lebanon, OR

Solid MD and DO list. You should get at least a few acceptances.

 

[Pacna]

Did you apply too top heavy last year?

Last year list:
Central Michigan
Mayo
Michigan State
Oakland
UoMi
UoMn
Wisconsin
Wayne State

I don't know if that's too top-heavy or not. :x

 

[Dreamstoo]

Last year list:
Central Michigan
Mayo
Michigan State
Oakland
UoMi
UoMn
Wisconsin
Wayne State

I don't know if that's too top-heavy or not. :x

Wow that is weird, only the ones I bolded I would consider reach schools for any applicant due to the competitive natures of their school.

 

[Myrtle1990]

Hey, guys. First post. I want to know what y'all think of my chances this year. A bit of a back-story:

I applied last year to 8 MD programs. I'm a MN resident, and I got an interview at UoM-TC. Obviously I didn't get invited to matriculate.

My stats:
3.9 science GPA,
3.86 non-science.
36P MCAT.
I have a huge amount of volunteer experience (awards, too), was an EMT, phlebotomist, and shadowed for countless hours.
No research to speak of.
I just graduated from Michigan State in May.

This year, I'm applying to 9 DO programs and ~12 MD schools. I'm still deliberating on some of the MDs.

What do you guys think of my chances? I was confident I was going to get in last year, but I only got the one interview. I figure if the chances are equal this year, I'll probably get 2-3 interviews. Hopefully 1 acceptance? Are re-applicant chances significantly worse? I feel like not much has changed about my application this year, so I'm a bit anxious.

Thanks!
Rik

The lack of research seems like a big red flag to me -- if I were you, I would find a lab (maybe nearby your hometown) and get a year of research under your belt before applying. What have you changed about your application since you applied last year? From what I understand, medical schools that you reapply to will look very poorly upon your application if it simply rehashes your last application without improving upon weaknesses.

If you establish research experience and ensure your PS/secondary essays are meaningful and well-written, you'll be very well positioned for an MD acceptance. Your lack of research is going to set you up for another poor cycle. I know it's probably not what you want to hear but your application will benefit immensely if you take a year to fill that gap.

 

[Pacna]

The lack of research seems like a big red flag to me -- if I were you, I would find a lab (maybe nearby your hometown) and get a year of research under your belt before applying. What have you changed about your application since you applied last year? From what I understand, medical schools that you reapply to will look very poorly upon your application if it simply rehashes your last application without improving upon weaknesses.

If you establish research experience and ensure your PS/secondary essays are meaningful and well-written, you'll be very well positioned for an MD acceptance. Your lack of research is going to set you up for another poor cycle. I know it's probably not what you want to hear but your application will benefit immensely if you take a year to fill that gap.

I understand that my lack of research is a tremendous weak spot on my application for many schools, but I've called and spoken with an admissions counselor at MSU who tells me it doesn't matter. For MSU (and presumably other schools like it), they aren't research-oriented. He told me, and this is a quote, "We don't care if an applicant has research experience because we don't focus on research." He told me that if I were to improve anything, I should focus on clinical experience if I were applying only to MSU again. That being said, I'm sure having some on your application would help you, but not more than another activity per se.

tl;dr: some schools don't give a flying duck about research.

 

[TriagePreMed]

You don't need to apply to so many osteopathic programs. Four would be the most I recommend. Just apply more broadly to MD.

 

[Pacna]

You don't need to apply to so many osteopathic programs. Four would be the most I recommend. Just apply more broadly to MD.

Which would you suggest that I cut?

 

[chajjohnson]

Thanks for replying.

I feel much better about the PS I wrote this year, but I still don't really know how to do the 15 work/experience sections. I wrote a paragraph for each one last year, but I'm reading that people do bullets? Should I do that?

And how about my school list?

MD:
Mayo Medical School
Michigan State University
Oregon Health and Science University
Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine
Uni. of North Dakota Sch. of Med. & Hlth. Sci.
University of Central Florida COM
University of Iowa, Carver College of Medicine
University of Minnesota Medical School-Minneapolis/Duluth
University of Washington School of Medicine
University of Wisconsin
Wayne State University School of Medicine

DO:
A.T. Still University, School of Osteopathic Medicine in Arizona, AZ
Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University, AZ
Des Moines University College of Osteopathic Medicine, IA
Edward Via College of Osteopathic Medicine - Carolinas Campus, SC
Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine - Bradenton Campus, FL
Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine, MI
Nova Southeastern University College of Osteopathic Medicine, FL
Rocky Vista University, College of Osteopathic Medicine, CO
Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine - California, CA
University of New England College of Osteopathic Medicine, ME
Western University of Health Sciences/College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific - Lebanon, OR

I would cut all but your top 2 or 3 DO schools. With your stats, it's likely you could get an interview at the majority of them. The cost of applying and going to interview at all those schools would be extremely high, and they're obviously not your first choice. You could just pocket that money, or apply to some more lower tier MD schools, e.g. MCW, Creighton, etc.

Also, don't worry about lack of research. Medical volunteering/experiences are way, way more important, and if you have lots of those having no research won't matter.

 

[WillburCobb]

You're pretty much guaranteed an interview at UND. An acceptance offer or high waitlist spot will depend greatly on a strong interview, PS, and secondary that demonstrates you'd be a good fit for UND and their mission. Keep in mind though that you would be vying for 1 of 11 spots unless you have very strong ties to ND.

 

[wjs010]

umm, excuse me, a 36? If you have above a 3.0 GPA and sGPA, you should get into every DO school to which you apply..that is an insane score, so get ready to be accepted! I really don't know how you didn't already get accepted...

 

[aspiring20]

I understand that my lack of research is a tremendous weak spot on my application for many schools, but I've called and spoken with an admissions counselor at MSU who tells me it doesn't matter. For MSU (and presumably other schools like it), they aren't research-oriented. He told me, and this is a quote, "We don't care if an applicant has research experience because we don't focus on research." He told me that if I were to improve anything, I should focus on clinical experience if I were applying only to MSU again. That being said, I'm sure having some on your application would help you, but not more than another activity per se.

tl;dr: some schools don't give a flying duck about research.

but you already have plenty of clinical experiences! so i am a bit confused about this advice. how can they possibly ask you to improve an already stellar aspect of your application? a lot of people i know got in with much less clinical experiences, and they certainly didn't have much more other than the standard hospital volunteering

i have to ask, is there a red flag somewhere in your application? it could be a bad letter, poorly written essays, or a major institutional action like cheating, etc.?

 

[Pacna]

but you already have plenty of clinical experiences! so i am a bit confused about this advice. how can they possibly ask you to improve an already stellar aspect of your application? a lot of people i know got in with much less clinical experiences, and they certainly didn't have much more other than the standard hospital volunteering

i have to ask, is there a red flag somewhere in your application? it could be a bad letter, poorly written essays, or a major institutional action like cheating, etc.?

I submitted my primaries at the end of June last year, so I wasn't super early. Then I didn't reply with secondaries within the 2 weeks after I got them. Shot myself in the foot with that one. I had some personal **** going on, but it's no excuse. I should have responded quicker.

Other than that, I don't think there are any red flags... I've improved my PS a ton this year, but it was by no means damning last year.

 

[miss chievous]

I submitted my primaries at the end of June last year, so I wasn't super early. Then I didn't reply with secondaries within the 2 weeks after I got them. Shot myself in the foot with that one. I had some personal **** going on, but it's no excuse. I should have responded quicker.

Other than that, I don't think there are any red flags... I've improved my PS a ton this year, but it was by no means damning last year.

June/July is considered early. Your GPA and MCAT are way above average. Having no research won't hurt you (contrary to what SDN makes it seem like). It looks good if you have it, but not having it won't be a reason they keep you out. You definitely had a red flag in your application last year, and I suggest you figure out what it is (poor letter of recommendation, incomplete application, etc.)

 

[gyngyn]

June/July is considered early. Your GPA and MCAT are way above average. Having no research won't hurt you (contrary to what SDN makes it seem like). It looks good if you have it, but not having it won't be a reason they keep you out. You definitely had a red flag in your application last year, and I suggest you figure out what it is (poor letter of recommendation, incomplete application, etc.)

OP wouldn't have gotten an interview with a significant "red flag."

 

[TriagePreMed]

Which would you suggest that I cut?

Everything except your top 4 DO programs. I'd keep DMU, MSU, AZCOM and UNE if I were you.

 

[TexasSurgeon]

I understand that my lack of research is a tremendous weak spot on my application for many schools, but I've called and spoken with an admissions counselor at MSU who tells me it doesn't matter. For MSU (and presumably other schools like it), they aren't research-oriented. He told me, and this is a quote, "We don't care if an applicant has research experience because we don't focus on research." He told me that if I were to improve anything, I should focus on clinical experience if I were applying only to MSU again. That being said, I'm sure having some on your application would help you, but not more than another activity per se.

tl;dr: some schools don't give a flying duck about research.

Research is not a requirement for medical school, only really for the top ones.

OP how many interview did you have last cycle?

 

[Goro]

I'm amazed that you only got one interview, and then a rejection from your own state school? Did you apply late? You did apply to a lot of state schools, and perhaps being OOS put you at a disadvantage. But still, I would have expected better.

I am in 100% agreement with my colleague gyngyn's point about a red flag in your packet. Is there one? Any IAs? Multiple misdemeanors? Felonies? Bad LORs? Poor or arrogant PS???

You need to add some private schools. State schools favor the home team. I don't have my MSAR handy to see how much so. My list below

SLU
Loyola
Northwestern
Rush
Rosy Franklin
U Chicago
Tulane
Creighton
ALL of the new MD schools in MI and FL
Vanderbilt
Duke
Wash U (maybe)
Mayo Medical School
Michigan State University
Uni. of North Dakota Sch. of Med. & Hlth. Sci.
University of Central Florida COM
University of Iowa, Carver College of Medicine
University of Minnesota Medical School-Minneapolis/Duluth
University of Wisconsin
Wayne State University School of Medicine




DO:
CCOM
A.T. Still University, School of Osteopathic Medicine in Arizona, AZ
Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University, AZ
Des Moines University College of Osteopathic Medicine, IA
Edward Via College of Osteopathic Medicine - Carolinas Campus, SC
Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine - Bradenton Campus, FL
Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine, MI
Nova Southeastern University College of Osteopathic Medicine, FL
Rocky Vista University, College of Osteopathic Medicine, CO
Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine - California, CA
Western University of Health Sciences/College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific - Lebanon, OR[/QUOTE]

 

[positivityrocks]

I'm amazed that you only got one interview, and then a rejection from your own state school? Did you apply late? You did apply to a lot of state schools, and perhaps being OOS put you at a disadvantage. But still, I would have expected better.

I am in 100% agreement with my colleague gyngyn's point about a red flag in your packet. Is there one? Any IAs? Multiple misdemeanors? Felonies? Bad LORs? Poor or arrogant PS???

You need to add some private schools. State schools favor the home team. I don't have my MSAR handy to see how much so. My list below

SLU
Loyola
Northwestern
Rush
Rosy Franklin
U Chicago
Tulane
Creighton
ALL of the new MD schools in MI and FL
Vanderbilt
Duke
Wash U (maybe)
Mayo Medical School
Michigan State University
Uni. of North Dakota Sch. of Med. & Hlth. Sci.
University of Central Florida COM
University of Iowa, Carver College of Medicine
University of Minnesota Medical School-Minneapolis/Duluth
University of Wisconsin
Wayne State University School of Medicine




DO:
CCOM
A.T. Still University, School of Osteopathic Medicine in Arizona, AZ
Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University, AZ
Des Moines University College of Osteopathic Medicine, IA
Edward Via College of Osteopathic Medicine - Carolinas Campus, SC
Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine - Bradenton Campus, FL
Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine, MI
Nova Southeastern University College of Osteopathic Medicine, FL
Rocky Vista University, College of Osteopathic Medicine, CO
Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine - California, CA
Western University of Health Sciences/College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific - Lebanon, OR

[/QUOTE]

I think you beat me to the suggestion, but wanted to add for OP: UW is notoriously difficult to get into OOS. Did you have a specific reason you were interested in applying there, which would be clear from your personal statement? If I'm remembering correctly they do prescreen, so that helps, at least, but... I agree with the suggestion above to add more private schools. Good luck

 

[pyrrion89]

Sounds like you bombed your interviews or your personal statement/essays on the last attempt. Or that's what I tell myself. I think only 8% of people with your stats got rejected everywhere, according to the AMCAS table. As someone with nearly identical stats and stronger ECs, you make me anxious! I think you also didn't apply broadly enough.

Good luck on your current attempt!

 

[October88]

I would like others suggested only apply to several do schools and add a few more private MD schools if you are aiming for MD.

It is baffling why you were so unsuccessful last year. Your scores look great and you have clinical experience

I would think you may have not written good summaries of your experiences and a convincing PS.

I added what I wrote for my experiences last year to a blog post on my MD apps and I personally think mine are great although I may be biased and I would try to find more people to read your PS who are familiarvwith Med school admissions.

Also maybe call up a few more admission offices and see what they have to day.

Good luck!!!

 

[Redpancreas]

Hey, guys. First post. I want to know what y'all think of my chances this year. A bit of a back-story:

I applied last year to 8 MD programs. I'm a MN resident, and I got an interview at UoM-TC. Obviously I didn't get invited to matriculate.

My stats:
3.9 science GPA,
3.86 non-science.
36P MCAT.
I have a huge amount of volunteer experience (awards, too), was an EMT, phlebotomist, and shadowed for countless hours.
No research to speak of.
I just graduated from Michigan State in May.

This year, I'm applying to 9 DO programs and ~12 MD schools. I'm still deliberating on some of the MDs.

What do you guys think of my chances? I was confident I was going to get in last year, but I only got the one interview. I figure if the chances are equal this year, I'll probably get 2-3 interviews. Hopefully 1 acceptance? Are re-applicant chances significantly worse? I feel like not much has changed about my application this year, so I'm a bit anxious.

Thanks!
Rik

I think you're scared of being burnt again in the application cycle but I think the reason you had trouble was because of your late secondaries, nothing else. I think you should drop DOs (if you haven't already applied) but keep the top 3 including MSUCOM. As a MN resident you're going to have to apply to some private schools. Check the MSAR listings. You realize that with your stats you are qualified for the best schools in the country?

 

[Pacna]

I think you're scared of being burnt again in the application cycle but I think the reason you had trouble was because of your late secondaries, nothing else. I think you should drop DOs (if you haven't already applied) but keep the top 3 including MSUCOM. As a MN resident you're going to have to apply to some private schools. Check the MSAR listings. You realize that with your stats you are qualified for the best schools in the country?

I took Msucom off due to the ridiculous tuition. I wish I could go with you, too, dhooper.

(but thanks for the feels)