Applying HPSP after M1?

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

All input is appreciated from individuals in similar situations.

I had initially planned on pursuing an HPSP scholarship for all 4 years of medical school but decided I'd pursue the offer for 3 years instead. I'd like to reduce the pay back by a bit, and hedge with somewhat of a half measure.

From what I was able to gather,

"it is advantageous to go for 3 years rather than 2 years since the minimum service obligation is 3 years either way, so I'm giving up scholarship money for no reduction in service commitment by doing a 2-year scholarship"

...as paraphrased from an older thread on this matter.

My question is this, for HPSP folks who are applying in the middle of medical school, have you had any trouble getting letters of recommendation and writing your PS in this entire process? How was your experience completing officer training while juggling summer research/preceptorships and classes etc.?

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[Teioh]

Would also like to know.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I have family in his payback period right now. If you don't mind me asking what draws you to HPSP?

 

[TexasMedic15]

I'm applying for the 4-year scholarship now and can answer some of your questions. If you still have access to your letters that you used for applying to Med School, those might still be able to be used towards applying for HPSP. Try to use the ones that speak about your clinical abilities, your extracurriculars, your leadership potential and overall character.

The more vague the letters are the better - for example: if one of your letters specifically say "this student would be a wonderful candidate for your medical school"... you probably shouldn't use that one as you're seeking letters for a military scholarship and not trying to get admitted to medical school. If you're seeking new letters from your current professors in med school, then you'll probably want to ask them in advance to get them written. One of my current professors told me to write my own and that he would look over it and make any corrections needed before signing it and sending it off to my recruiter.

As for the personal statement, neither branch really requires you to write very much. Not sure about the Navy, but the Air Force has your answer about 6 or 7 questions (two pages exactly with spaces). Army has you write about why Army Medicine, which I think I remember being only a page long with spaces (might even be less). They're nothing difficult and shouldn't take you more than two hours to type up with editing.

 

[williameb23]

I'm applying for the 4-year scholarship now and can answer some of your questions. If you still have access to your letters that you used for applying to Med School, those might still be able to be used towards applying for HPSP. Try to use the ones that speak about your clinical abilities, your extracurriculars, your leadership potential and overall character.

The more vague the letters are the better - for example: if one of your letters specifically say "this student would be a wonderful candidate for your medical school"... you probably shouldn't use that one as you're seeking letters for a military scholarship and not trying to get admitted to medical school. If you're seeking new letters from your current professors in med school, then you'll probably want to ask them in advance to get them written. One of my current professors told me to write my own and that he would look over it and make any corrections needed before signing it and sending it off to my recruiter.

As for the personal statement, neither branch really requires you to write very much. Not sure about the Navy, but the Air Force has your answer about 6 or 7 questions (two pages exactly with spaces). Army has you write about why Army Medicine, which I think I remember being only a page long with spaces (might even be less). They're nothing difficult and shouldn't take you more than two hours to type up with editing.

I can follow up on this. I asked my medical school recommendation authors to re-use their letters but include a statement that specifically mentions my service commitment to the community and why I would make a good military physician - something along those lines. The Navy's personal statement is a 1/2-1 page response about "why Naval Medicine." I can't speak to the difficulty of getting a letter from current medical school instructors or the balance of ODT with summer research/preceptorships. I have talked to a handful of military docs who have told me that their school was very accommodating to their development obligation and their setting up away rotations.

 

[docycle]

All input is appreciated from individuals in similar situations.

I had initially planned on pursuing an HPSP scholarship for all 4 years of medical school but decided I'd pursue the offer for 3 years instead. I'd like to reduce the pay back by a bit, and hedge with somewhat of a half measure.

Ohhh that's actually interesting. Didn't know you could do that.

Still not worth it though imo. With the amount of hours I'd be working in milmed (60-70hrs/wk), I'd have paid off my debt and I'd have more money to spare in the same amount of time. (slashing 40% for taxes, and it probably won't be that high) 0.6*70hrs/wk*50wks*120/hr(ave UC pay) = 252k/yr after taxes. Subtract 40k living + 10k mal (we're not living in highly desirable lawsuit happy areas). ~200k per year. Loans easily paid in 1.5 years. 300k post-tax to spare.

vs. milmed's ~100k/yr for 3 years. No debt. Assuming 25% taxation, and subtract 40k/yr living expenses (they pay mal I believe). 0.75*300k-40k/yr*3yrs = 105k post-tax to spare.

Assume any moonlighting hours held constant. Dunno if mil residencies allow for it though.

Course if you just wanna serve then different story I guess.

 

[williameb23]

Ohhh that's actually interesting. Didn't know you could do that.

Still not worth it though imo. With the amount of hours I'd be working in milmed (60-70hrs/wk), I'd have paid off my debt and I'd have more money to spare in the same amount of time. (slashing 40% for taxes, and it probably won't be that high) 0.6*70hrs/wk*50wks*120/hr(ave UC pay) = 252k/yr after taxes. Subtract 40k living + 10k mal (we're not living in highly desirable lawsuit happy areas). ~200k per year. Loans easily paid in 1.5 years. 300k post-tax to spare.

vs. milmed's ~100k/yr for 3 years. No debt. Assuming 25% taxation, and subtract 40k/yr living expenses (they pay mal I believe). 0.75*300k-40k/yr*3yrs = 105k post-tax to spare.

Assume any moonlighting hours held constant. Dunno if mil residencies allow for it though.

Course if you just wanna serve then different story I guess.

1. There's not that drastic of a discrepancy in physician salary for civilian vs. military. You also receive officer pay in addition to salary while in the military (along with living and other stipends).
2. Your figure of 200k per year in civilian and paying off loans in 1.5 years pretty unrealistic.
3. Military residencies pay you nearly twice what civilian residencies do with officer pay so you have to figure that in. You could also include the signing bonus and residual from the monthly stipends given during military medical training if you have smart investors. It's popular to use the $20k signing bonus with the 4-year scholarship to max out a Roth IRA (which you can't do once you earn what physicians earn), and maxing out a Roth IRA when you're young makes a huge difference at retirement for anybody.
4. Going HPSP for primarily financial reasons is a huge mistake. Same thing goes for being a physician. People choose military medicine for the unique medical experiences and service opportunity that civilian medicine doesn't offer (but I wanted to respond to your calculations )

 

[docycle]

1. There's not that drastic of a discrepancy in physician salary for civilian vs. military. You also receive officer pay in addition to salary while in the military (along with living and other stipends).

I was only talking about repayment years. Not non-repayment years vs. normal civilian, which is something different I don't know much about.

2. Your figure of 200k per year in civilian and paying off loans in 1.5 years pretty unrealistic.

Working your *** off for the army 70hrs/wk might seem unrealistic to some. But it's done. I was controlling for the amount of time you'd spend if working for them and apply that to a civilian situation (which I'll bet probably has better working conditions as well). If you want my opinion I think either way that's a crappy schedule for most people, and it's going to be very difficult.

3. Military residencies pay you nearly twice what civilian residencies do with officer pay so you have to figure that in.

You're right. But you don't have to go into a mil residency, and they're highly competitive for the reason you mention (the pay difference). You're active duty from the time you start, and your pay doesn't change all that dramatically once you get into the repayment years.

You could also include the signing bonus and residual from the monthly stipends given during military medical training if you have smart investors. It's popular to use the $20k signing bonus with the 4-year scholarship to max out a Roth IRA (which you can't do once you earn what physicians earn), and maxing out a Roth IRA when you're young makes a huge difference at retirement for anybody.

Signing bonus for residency? Wasn't aware they had this. Fair enough difference I guess. Unless you're talking about repayment years, in which case you can get a comparable bonus depending on the civilian gig.

4. Going HPSP for primarily financial reasons is a huge mistake. Same thing goes for being a physician. People choose military medicine for the unique medical experiences and service opportunity that civilian medicine doesn't offer (but I wanted to respond to your calculations )

It was a "take note" sort of thing. I'm not saying everyone needs to give a damn about what they'll be making. Plenty on here are the "it's more than enough and anything past 100k is roses" types. I am one such person (PCP interest). I'm just highlighting a major difference in the pathways that OP may not have heavily considered. Besides, isn't whole point of doing HPSP financially driven?? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's entirely financially motivated, because the whole point is getting tuition paid and removing debt. Of course I urge OP and all others considering this to research this path as much as possible before making such a big commitment. That's it. Brb ducking stone throwing.

 

[williameb23]

I was only talking about repayment years. Not non-repayment years vs. normal civilian, which is something different I don't know much about.



Working your *** off for the army 70hrs/wk might seem unrealistic to some. But it's done. I was controlling for the amount of time you'd spend if working for them and apply that to a civilian situation (which I'll bet probably has better working conditions as well). If you want my opinion I think either way that's a crappy schedule for most people, and it's going to be very difficult.



You're right. But you don't have to go into a mil residency, and they're highly competitive for the reason you mention (the pay difference). You're active duty from the time you start, and your pay doesn't change all that dramatically once you get into the repayment years.



Signing bonus for residency? Wasn't aware they had this. Fair enough difference I guess. Unless you're talking about repayment years, in which case you can get a comparable bonus depending on the civilian gig.

It was a "take note" sort of thing. I'm not saying everyone needs to give a damn about what they'll be making. Plenty on here are the "it's more than enough and anything past 100k is roses" types. I am one such person (PCP interest). I'm just highlighting a major difference in the pathways that OP may not have heavily considered. I mean, isn't whole point of doing HPSP financially driven?? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's entirely financially motivated, because the whole point is getting tuition paid and removing debt. Of course I urge OP and all others considering this to research this path as much as possible before making such a big commitment. That's it. Brb ducking stone throwing.

Haha I didn't mean to put out a "stone-throwing" vibe. Neither route - civilian or military - is easier than the other. I've applied to go HPSP because of all of the above reasons, including financial. I've just heard/read horror stories of unfulfilled expectations and failures from some who have gone into military medicine primarily for easing a financial burden.

 

[docycle]

Haha I didn't mean to put out a "stone-throwing" vibe. Neither route - civilian or military - is easier than the other. I've applied to go HPSP because of all of the above reasons, including financial. I've just heard/read horror stories of unfulfilled expectations and failures from some who have gone into military medicine primarily for easing a financial burden.

Oh yeah I can totally see that. And heck, maybe my post prevents some individual like that from getting in way over their head when they're primarily in it for $$$. Although, as you say, that should not be the primary motivation anyway.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

I have family in his payback period right now. If you don't mind me asking what draws you to HPSP?

Besides help with eliminating debt, I enjoy a more controlled practice with seeing a reasonable amount of patients, a life of service in both medicine and military, wanderlust, and a few thing about the military match I have yet to confirm as fact.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

1. There's not that drastic of a discrepancy in physician salary for civilian vs. military. You also receive officer pay in addition to salary while in the military (along with living and other stipends).
2. Your figure of 200k per year in civilian and paying off loans in 1.5 years pretty unrealistic.
3. Military residencies pay you nearly twice what civilian residencies do with officer pay so you have to figure that in. You could also include the signing bonus and residual from the monthly stipends given during military medical training if you have smart investors. It's popular to use the $20k signing bonus with the 4-year scholarship to max out a Roth IRA (which you can't do once you earn what physicians earn), and maxing out a Roth IRA when you're young makes a huge difference at retirement for anybody.
4. Going HPSP for primarily financial reasons is a huge mistake. Same thing goes for being a physician. People choose military medicine for the unique medical experiences and service opportunity that civilian medicine doesn't offer (but I wanted to respond to your calculations )

Interesting point, im still trying to wrap my head around how a Roth IRA works by reading white coat investor

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Besides help with eliminating debt, I enjoy a more controlled practice with seeing a reasonable amount of patients, a life of service in both medicine and military, wanderlust, and a few thing about the military match I have yet to confirm as fact.

I won't discourage you but know what you are getting into before you sign up. Mil med has a number of issues that can be really disenchanting if you don't want to be in the service 110%. Just make sure it isn't for the money. If you want to see some of the issues just search through the mil med forums

 

[Onigiri]

I apologize if this question is easily found on the web browser, but I was wondering if I need to pay a fee to apply for hpsp, and how many people apply and get in?

Lastly, is there another, separate secondary essay/personal statement/lor that is needed for a person who recently matriculated and wants to do the 4 year?

 

[TexasMedic15]

I apologize if this question is easily found on the web browser, but I was wondering if I need to pay a fee to apply for hpsp, and how many people apply and get in?

Lastly, is there another, separate secondary essay/personal statement/lor that is needed for a person who recently matriculated and wants to do the 4 year?

There's no fee. You apply through your recruiter. I can't remember the exact numbers but there's about ~190 slots per branch. I'm not sure what your last question is asking. Are you already in medical school or have you only just been accepted? You can't apply for the 4 year scholarship once you've already began medical school. At that point you can only apply for the 3- or 2-year scholarship... or you can apply for FAP, but that's separate from HPSP.

 

[Onigiri]

I'm not sure what your last question is asking. Are you already in medical school or have you only just been accepted? .

For my last question, I talked with a recruiter and she did not explain that I needed a LOR as mentioned by OP, only that I needed to write a personal statement. To clarify my last question, How many LOR will I need and in addition to a personal statement, is there any other annoying writing I have to do?

Thank you so much for helping me answer these questions TexasMedic15!

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

Thanks for the input everybody. After reading through much of the info by ex mil med and folks in active duty, I have decided to keep looking and not commit to HPSP yet.

 

[TexasMedic15]

For my last question, I talked with a recruiter and she did not explain that I needed a LOR as mentioned by OP, only that I needed to write a personal statement. To clarify my last question, How many LOR will I need and in addition to a personal statement, is there any other annoying writing I have to do?

Thank you so much for helping me answer these questions TexasMedic15!

Are you sure you spoke with an HPSP recruiter specifically? Not all recruiters are involved in dealing with HPSP applicants. He/she sounds very uninformed of the application process. You need a different number of LORs depending on the branch. You also don't write personal statements, but rather short essays. There is really no other writing involved as far as I remember.

 

[TexasMedic15]

For my last question, I talked with a recruiter and she did not explain that I needed a LOR as mentioned by OP, only that I needed to write a personal statement. To clarify my last question, How many LOR will I need and in addition to a personal statement, is there any other annoying writing I have to do?

Thank you so much for helping me answer these questions TexasMedic15!

Are you sure you spoke with an HPSP recruiter specifically? Not all recruiters are involved in dealing with HPSP applicants. He/she sounds very uninformed of the application process. You need a different number of LORs depending on the branch. You also don't write personal statements, but rather short essays. There is really no other writing involved as far as I remember.

 

[Onigiri]

Are you sure you spoke with an HPSP recruiter specifically? Not all recruiters are involved in dealing with HPSP applicants. He/she sounds very uninformed of the application process. You need a different number of LORs depending on the branch. You also don't write personal statements, but rather short essays. There is really no other writing involved as far as I remember.

Gah, Im gonna save myself the head ache and not apply this round haha. Thank you for your help!!

 

[MightBeACylon439]

For my last question, I talked with a recruiter and she did not explain that I needed a LOR as mentioned by OP, only that I needed to write a personal statement. To clarify my last question, How many LOR will I need and in addition to a personal statement, is there any other annoying writing I have to do?

Thank you so much for helping me answer these questions TexasMedic15!

I am a current M1 on the 4-year AFHPSP, attached is the casefile you have to fill out to apply for the AFHPSP (notice I said AF...not army or navy...I know nothing of the application process for those). Take a look at it and it'll give you an idea on all you need to apply for the program.

Let me know if you have any other questions. There is some good advice on this thread some bad, I know that arguing points individually is useless and exhausting so im not going to do that, but as I very recently went through the process and was accepted to it I can accurately answer your questions.

 

[docycle]

Besides help with eliminating debt, I enjoy a more controlled practice with seeing a reasonable amount of patients

I've literally read the exact opposite about the realities of a milmed PCP. They work you like a dog and you are grossly understaffed. It's only more controlled in that you are forced to work like a dog and can't quit.

Hearsay, but worth researching further.

Some reading
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/cons-of-military-medicine.256224/

 

[68PGunner]

There isn't a residency bonus.
Without any prior experience, you will make 70-75k during your residency years, and about 125-130k during your payback years. Finally, it's not worth it considering other options being available out there. Also, there will soon be a VA HPSP. Keep an eye out for that.

 

[MightBeACylon439]

I've literally read the exact opposite about the realities of a milmed PCP. They work you like a dog and you are grossly understaffed. It's only more controlled in that you are forced to work like a dog and can't quit.

Hearsay, but worth researching further.

Some reading
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/cons-of-military-medicine.256224/

The forums here are filled with only people are those who bitter about the program. The people I have talked to in person have all been in favor of the program with stories of "oh yeah that ONE guy who..." I take the threads on the milmed forum here to be quite unrepresentative of the reality. With that said believe what you will.

 

[williameb23]

There isn't a residency bonus.
Without any prior experience, you will make 70-75k during your residency years, and about 125-130k during your payback years. Finally, it's not worth it considering other options being available out there. Also, there will soon be a VA HPSP. Keep an eye out for that.

I was referring to the officer pay, not a bonus based on any experience. My recruiter showed me a PPT that broke down all of the different benefits (food+living stipends) in addition to your pay as a resident and officer pay, which is >$90k without those benefits.

 

[docycle]

The forums here are filled with only people are those who bitter about the program. The people I have talked to in person have all been in favor of the program with stories of "oh yeah that ONE guy who..." I take the threads on the milmed forum here to be quite unrepresentative of the reality. With that said believe what you will.

Then again, the types to go into the military may not be the most vocal or as prone to complain about their qualms.

 

[williameb23]

Then again, the types to go into the military may not be the most vocal or as prone to complain about their qualms.

Yeah you basically just have to draw a line right down the middle of what you read. I also think it's similar to civilian medicine in that it's very individual - it can be miserable if you go in with the wrong expectations and/or don't make the most of opportunities.

 

[68PGunner]

I was referring to the officer pay, not a bonus based on any experience. My recruiter showed me a PPT that broke down all of the different benefits (food+living stipends) in addition to your pay as a resident and officer pay, which is >$90k without those benefits.

You're talking to a military guy here. Financially you will be underpaid throughout your payback years. My calculation includes your officer pay, bas, bah, and bonus.

This is your resident pay so you decide who's the liar:
O3 w less than 2 years
BAH with an average of 1,500-1,700 a month tax free
BAS with an average of 250 a month tax free
Intern pay of 1,200 a year

You don't get resident pay and officer pay. Don't dismiss the naysayers when most of you don't even know what military medicine is all about. All stories and experiences are valid depending on one's first experience. However, the bottom line is that you join the military because you want to be in the military.

 

[68PGunner]

All input is appreciated from individuals in similar situations.

I had initially planned on pursuing an HPSP scholarship for all 4 years of medical school but decided I'd pursue the offer for 3 years instead. I'd like to reduce the pay back by a bit, and hedge with somewhat of a half measure.

From what I was able to gather,

"it is advantageous to go for 3 years rather than 2 years since the minimum service obligation is 3 years either way, so I'm giving up scholarship money for no reduction in service commitment by doing a 2-year scholarship"

...as paraphrased from an older thread on this matter.

My question is this, for HPSP folks who are applying in the middle of medical school, have you had any trouble getting letters of recommendation and writing your PS in this entire process? How was your experience completing officer training while juggling summer research/preceptorships and classes etc.?

Get your medical school professors to write your letters. Your chances of acceptance for an admitted or current medical student is 100% considering that some branch like the Army didn't meet their quota last year.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

I am grateful for the input. I am still ignorant on the landscape of mil med but it seems I might be under the influence of money much more than a genuine desire to serve. Before I can become more mature on this regard, the military deserves a more worthy candidate than myself.

Get your medical school professors to write your letters. Your chances of acceptance for an admitted or current medical student is 100% considering that some branch like the Army didn't meet their quota last year.