Applying to both PSTP and Categorical Programs

[placebo88]

Hi,

I am currently in the last year of my MD/PhD program and applying to IM residencies. I am thinking of applying to both Categorical and PSTP programs. I was wondering if it is possible to apply to both tracks within the same program, if they are listed under separate under NRMP IDs? Is your application considered separately by both tracks if you do that and can you rank both programs in the match? If anyone has done this before and would like to share their experience, I would appreciate it! Thanks.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[gutonc]

Some will have separate tracks, some will ask you prior to the interview if you're interested. Some will have separate interviews. Some will consider you for the Cat program if they don't want you in the PSTP.

Bottom line, it varies. I applied PSTP everywhere that had a separate track. Got mostly PSTP interviews and 2 places that offered Cat only interviews.

 

[placebo88]

Did you apply to both PSTP and Cat when separate tracks were available, or only PSTP? The reason I'm asking is that there are certain programs where I'd rather do a Cat as they have excellent clinical training but do not offer the exact research I'm looking for. I'd rather apply to these programs as a Cat and go for fellowship elsewhere.

I also see that I might have a higher chance of getting an interview if I apply PSTP as the highlight of my application is research. If I were to apply to these programs as both Cat and PSTP but rank Cat higher, would I be jeopardizing my chances of a Cat spot at these schools?

 

[gutonc]

Did you apply to both PSTP and Cat when separate tracks were available, or only PSTP? The reason I'm asking is that there are certain programs where I'd rather do a Cat as they have excellent clinical training but do not offer the exact research I'm looking for. I'd rather apply to these programs as a Cat and go for fellowship elsewhere.

I also see that I might have a higher chance of getting an interview if I apply PSTP as the highlight of my application is research. If I were to apply to these programs as both Cat and PSTP but rank Cat higher, would I be jeopardizing my chances of a Cat spot at these schools?

I only applied to one track. If you don't want to stay somewhere for fellowship, don't apply PSTP there. If you might want to stay, just apply PSTP.

FWIW, I ranked #1 (and matched at) a place without and integrated PSTP, but that did support it (meaning they allowed me to apply to fellowship a year early (it was intern year when I did it but would be PGY 2 now). I did have to reapply to fellowship but got even better interview offers for fellowship than I did for residency.

 

[placebo88]

I see. Thanks for your response. That was really helpful. I also have a general question about the PSTP program. I know that I would like to do research in a significant way in the future and hopefully have my own research group but I also know that the competition for funding is brutal these days. Given that, if you are not successful with the research and decide to pursue a career that is more clinically oriented in the future, would the PSTP put you at a significant disadvantage?

 

[KillCancer]

Placebo88, I'm also in the same boat.

Like gutonc's reply, it varies by program.

I just got an interview invite at an academic program as part of (albeit massive NRMP click) general categorical IM.

The interview invite indicated, "Please send us your three preferred dates" then said "Our Physician-Scientist Track is for applicants with strong research backgrounds.... If you are interested in any of these special tracks, please let us know prior to your interview."

Not to mooch off of your post, if anyone has any opinion/thoughts, in this particular case, would showing an interest in the tract affect the chances at matching at the categorical? Or would they look at you funny if you are an M.D./Ph.D. and NOT apply to the PSTP track? I have only ONE dual author paper from my Ph.D. project, but another triple first author paper, and a couple of 5, 6th author papers - so I don't feel I have a "strong" research b/g.

Please forgive me if I'm annoying anyone with WAMC type post, but I felt it'd be a general principle type of question for all mudphuders applying to IM..

Thanks!!!

 

[KillCancer]

I see. Thanks for your response. That was really helpful. I also have a general question about the PSTP program. I know that I would like to do research in a significant way in the future and hopefully have my own research group but I also know that the competition for funding is brutal these days. Given that, if you are not successful with the research and decide to pursue a career that is more clinically oriented in the future, would the PSTP put you at a significant disadvantage?

I don't think, AFTER having finished a PSTP, would put you at a significant disadvantage. For most programs I know, they guarantee a fellowship of your choice. Also, with a more research oriented program, you might have a better chance at an academic position. IMHO.

 

[placebo88]

Placebo88, I'm also in the same boat.

Not to mooch off of your post, if anyone has any opinion/thoughts, in this particular case, would showing an interest in the tract affect the chances at matching at the categorical? Or would they look at you funny if you are an M.D./Ph.D. and NOT apply to the PSTP track? I have only ONE dual author paper from my Ph.D. project, but another triple first author paper, and a couple of 5, 6th author papers - so I don't feel I have a "strong" research b/g.

I am also wondering about the same thing. I have been told that it might be frowned upon as an M.D./Ph.D. to NOT apply to the PSTP track. Yet at the same time, I feel that I would only want to apply PSTP if I'm absolutely sure that I would want to attend fellowship in that program. Not all programs give you the option of doing a fellowship elsewhere. So I was thinking of applying both PSTP and Cat at programs that I'm very interested in for the clinical portion of my training so that I can rank Cat in case I can't spot a mentor whose research I'm interested in. I am worried that if I apply both Cat and PSTP to such programs though, that it might negatively affect my application for the Cat and they might not even consider me for this track since they might think that I would be more interested in the PSTP. Any thoughts?

 

[gutonc]

I see. Thanks for your response. That was really helpful. I also have a general question about the PSTP program. I know that I would like to do research in a significant way in the future and hopefully have my own research group but I also know that the competition for funding is brutal these days. Given that, if you are not successful with the research and decide to pursue a career that is more clinically oriented in the future, would the PSTP put you at a significant disadvantage?

I have a 100% clinical job after both an MD/PhD and a Research Pathway training program. You'll get a job. Don't worry about it.

 

[gutonc]

I am also wondering about the same thing. I have been told that it might be frowned upon as an M.D./Ph.D. to NOT apply to the PSTP track. Yet at the same time, I feel that I would only want to apply PSTP if I'm absolutely sure that I would want to attend fellowship in that program. Not all programs give you the option of doing a fellowship elsewhere. So I was thinking of applying both PSTP and Cat at programs that I'm very interested in for the clinical portion of my training so that I can rank Cat in case I can't spot a mentor whose research I'm interested in. I am worried that if I apply both Cat and PSTP to such programs though, that it might negatively affect my application for the Cat and they might not even consider me for this track since they might think that I would be more interested in the PSTP. Any thoughts?

You're overthinking this. Pick a track. Apply to it. Move on.

 

[KillCancer]

You're overthinking this. Pick a track. Apply to it. Move on.

If I have a strong preference for a program, would choosing a PSTP track hurt/help/influence at all?!?! my chance of matching?

 

[gutonc]

If I have a strong preference for a program, would choosing a PSTP track hurt/help/influence at all?!?! my chance of matching?

Stop it. Just stop.

 

[tr]

I'm not in IM but I do interview applicants to our research track program. Applying to the research track does not hurt applicants for the regular track. Most of the research track candidates are fantastic applicants who would have no problem getting into the regular track here or anywhere else. It's not that common for people who don't match to the research track to come here on the regular track though, simply because they typically match to a research track program at some other very good institution.

If you do want a research career I would not plan to switch institutions between residency and fellowship. Every time you switch institutions your research gets set back. Doing fellowship at the same place as you did residency means you can make your connections, plan your project, maybe write a relevant review or two, and perhaps do whatever preliminary experimental work you are able to do in your PGY 1-3 years, which will let you get a running start at productivity for your fellowship and early faculty years. Switching institutions for fellowship is going to be a handicap you don't need.

 

[gutonc]

If you do want a research career I would not plan to switch institutions between residency and fellowship. Every time you switch institutions your research gets set back. Doing fellowship at the same place as you did residency means you can make your connections, plan your project, maybe write a relevant review or two, and perhaps do whatever preliminary experimental work you are able to do in your PGY 1-3 years, which will let you get a running start at productivity for your fellowship and early faculty years. Switching institutions for fellowship is going to be a handicap you don't need.

Just a quick comment here from somebody who was in IM. There is absolutely no time during the IM part of the research pathway to do any sort of research. You have to cram the ABIM required rotations into 24 months instead of 36. I had a grand total of 4 weeks of electives during that time (I used them for FMLA after my daughter was born, otherwise I would have used them for a clinical elective). There was no research going on at that time.

That said, connections are huge. But hard to make in a large institution unless your clinical department has a large research component. With the shift away from clinical departments supporting basic research though, I expect this to become less and less of an issue.

 

[tr]

OK I stand corrected. That said, I'm still not clear on what the advantage would be to switching programs for research fellowship? I just can't see any up side.

Also since we agree that connections are huge, I'd like to point out that even though it can be hard to connect with researchers when you are immersed in a demanding clinical residency, it's even harder to connect with researchers who are not physically located where you are.

 

[gutonc]

OK I stand corrected. That said, I'm still not clear on what the advantage would be to switching programs for research fellowship? I just can't see any up side.

Also since we agree that connections are huge, I'd like to point out that even though it can be hard to connect with researchers when you are immersed in a demanding clinical residency, it's even harder to connect with researchers who are not physically located where you are.

You create those connections during the initial clinical years of your fellowship. It's not like you need 3 years to do so. And during your fellowship, you're more likely to be in contact with researchers in your field of interest than during residency.