Applying to multiple specialties

[Dr Elizabeth]

I'm in a strange situation and hope you guys can lead me in the right direction. I'm a rising fourth year at a West Coast school and am tired of being away from home. I have a husband and kids and we're wanting to get back to the Northeast.

I really don't care what specialty I'm in. There are several that I like and can see myself enjoying after doing the majority of my 3rd year clerkships. Would it be awful to apply to multiple specialties, specifically in the Boston area? I don't have the greatest board scores and that's why I don't want to bank on only one specialty when there are only a few programs around Boston. I'm thinking FM, IM, peds, and OB/GYN. Obviously, some applications will go to the same hospital so I don't know if PD's in different specialties talk or not and if this would be really bad. My top priority really is location. If I end up there, I'll be happy in any of those fields.

Advice?

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[Doctor4Life1769]

I'm in a strange situation and hope you guys can lead me in the right direction. I'm a rising fourth year at a West Coast school and am tired of being away from home. I have a husband and kids and we're wanting to get back to the Northeast.

I really don't care what specialty I'm in. There are several that I like and can see myself enjoying after doing the majority of my 3rd year clerkships. Would it be awful to apply to multiple specialties, specifically in the Boston area? I don't have the greatest board scores and that's why I don't want to bank on only one specialty when there are only a few programs around Boston. I'm thinking FM, IM, peds, and OB/GYN. Obviously, some applications will go to the same hospital so I don't know if PD's in different specialties talk or not and if this would be really bad. My top priority really is location. If I end up there, I'll be happy in any of those fields.

Advice?

Since you're limiting yourself to a certain city... I would just pick 1 specialty and run with it. There's not enough to cherry pick around with 2-3 specialties.

 

[michigangirl]

I wouldn't apply in multiple specialities-- unless you're interested in something like med-peds and only want to be in one city, so one could argue a reason to apply in IM and peds separately. But it's pretty risky-- too small a pool of hospitals and programs- you apply to multiple, noone takes you because it's not clear you have a vision.

Might be a good opportunity for someone who doesn't look awesome on paper to do an away rotation if you think you will be able to WOW them in a particular specialty in Boston. if that's a possibility, get in on it now-- most of the away rotations have already been scheduled.

 

[ShyRem]

OBGyn was rather brutal last year or the year before as I recall. FM is always rather easy to match into, IM not so hard.

If you are dead set on a particular city, then you should probably choose an easier residency to match into and apply to every single stinkin' program anywhere near there. And do some face time.

 

[Dr Elizabeth]

Sorry I wasn't clear. It doesn't have to be IN Boston proper. I'll be happy anywhere in Mass and anywhere in RI or ME, preferably Portland since it's only 1 1/2 hrs to Boston. But I'm nervous about restricting myself to one specialty in case I don't get many interviews.

I am doing two aways in Boston. One in peds and one in IM. So we'll see how those go.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Sorry I wasn't clear. It doesn't have to be IN Boston proper. I'll be happy anywhere in Mass and anywhere in RI or ME, preferably Portland since it's only 1 1/2 hrs to Boston. But I'm nervous about restricting myself to one specialty in case I don't get many interviews.

I am doing two aways in Boston. One in peds and one in IM. So we'll see how those go.

Still, the pool is hospitals is still low.

If you're doing Med-Peds, make that clear on your aways (especially if the 2 aways are in the same hospital program).

Boston programs are gonna be tough, anyway.

Still wise to pick one specialty, or "med-peds"

 

[EagerToBeMD]

Still, the pool is hospitals is still low.

If you're doing Med-Peds, make that clear on your aways (especially if the 2 aways are in the same hospital program).

Boston programs are gonna be tough, anyway.

Still wise to pick one specialty, or "med-peds"

Doesn't she run the risk of not matching at all by picking only one specialty? And a med-peds program isn't exactly offered by a lot of hospitals, so she'll be limiting herself more.

 

[gutonc]

Still, the pool is hospitals is still low.

Are you high? She said Boston, anywhere in Mass, RI or ME. That's 20 IM programs right there (11 in Boston and suburbs).

Tack on NH and VT and you get 2 more.

Throw in CT just for fun and you're up to 35 total. If you can't match at one of 35 IM programs as an AMG with passing Step scores and no murders on your rap sheet, you've got bigger problems than anyone on SDN can help you with.

To the OP...pick a specialty and run with it. You're applying in one of the densest areas imaginable (New England) so you have lots of options.

 

[peppy]

I think it would make the most sense for you to pick FM since it combines aspects of all the fields you like, AND it's the least competitive of any of them so you're more likely to get the location you want.
Applying to multiple specialties at the same hospital can backfire horribly if two programs at the same hospital talk to each other and realize you applied to both. It's not worth the risk in a circumstance like this. Just commit to one specialty and try to make yourself as competitive for it as possible.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Are you high? She said Boston, anywhere in Mass, RI or ME. That's 20 IM programs right there (11 in Boston and suburbs).

Tack on NH and VT and you get 2 more.

Throw in CT just for fun and you're up to 35 total. If you can't match at one of 35 IM programs as an AMG with passing Step scores and no murders on your rap sheet, you've got bigger problems than anyone on SDN can help you with.

To the OP...pick a specialty and run with it. You're applying in one of the densest areas imaginable (New England) so you have lots of options.

It is low if you start applying to multiple specialties was my point.

Back to the bong

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Doesn't she run the risk of not matching at all by picking only one specialty? And a med-peds program isn't exactly offered by a lot of hospitals, so she'll be limiting herself more.

You can't apply to multiple specialties within the same hospital. Also, if you apply to 2 specialties, you split your chances in half. Since the genius fellow estimated about 35 programs, let's say you apply equally to 2 specialties, that's 17-18. Maybe not terrible. Let's say you apply to 3 specialties... that's ~ 11 apiece, chances get even worse.

 

[EagerToBeMD]

You can't apply to multiple specialties within the same hospital. Also, if you apply to 2 specialties, you split your chances in half. Since the genius fellow estimated about 35 programs, let's say you apply equally to 2 specialties, that's 17-18. Maybe not terrible. Let's say you apply to 3 specialties... that's ~ 11 apiece, chances get even worse.

I never understood why it's such a faux pas to apply to two RELATED specialties at the same hospital. Obviously, you shouldn't apply IM and surg, but what's wrong with applying FM and IM? The two fields are somewhat related. I never understood why that offends PDs.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I never understood why it's such a faux pas to apply to two RELATED specialties at the same hospital. Obviously, you shouldn't apply IM and surg, but what's wrong with applying FM and IM? The two fields are somewhat related. I never understood why that offends PDs.

I dunno, I've just read and heard too many times that if you do that, you're almost guaranteed to not attain an interview (or match) at that program. I guess it shows a lack of commitment to said specialty. Sounds lame, but we have to play by *their* rules.

 

[lockjaw]

I dunno, I've just read and heard too many times that if you do that, you're almost guaranteed to not attain an interview (or match) at that program. I guess it shows a lack of commitment to said specialty. Sounds lame, but we have to play by *their* rules.

I have two classmates that applied to more than one specialty at their top choice hospital, because matching where their husbands lived was more important to them than getting their preferred specialty. Both successfully matched into their top choice at that hospital where they had dually applied. Obviously a very small sample size, but it shows you're not automatically black listed if you dual apply. Still, I've heard that overall it's not the best idea unless you have strong reasons why you have to be at a specific hospital.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I have two classmates that applied to more than one specialty at their top choice hospital, because matching where their husbands lived was more important to them than getting their preferred specialty. Both successfully matched into their top choice at that hospital where they had dually applied. Obviously a very small sample size, but it shows you're not automatically black listed if you dual apply. Still, I've heard that overall it's not the best idea unless you have strong reasons why you have to be at a specific hospital.

Maybe they relayed that tid bit to the PDs... it's best to do that if you're going to be doing that, always good to have a legit reason.
Also, note *almost* in my line.
Glad it worked out for them.

 

[MJB]

I'm in a strange situation and hope you guys can lead me in the right direction. I'm a rising fourth year at a West Coast school and am tired of being away from home. I have a husband and kids and we're wanting to get back to the Northeast.

I really don't care what specialty I'm in. There are several that I like and can see myself enjoying after doing the majority of my 3rd year clerkships. Would it be awful to apply to multiple specialties, specifically in the Boston area? I don't have the greatest board scores and that's why I don't want to bank on only one specialty when there are only a few programs around Boston. I'm thinking FM, IM, peds, and OB/GYN. Obviously, some applications will go to the same hospital so I don't know if PD's in different specialties talk or not and if this would be really bad. My top priority really is location. If I end up there, I'll be happy in any of those fields.

Advice?

Based on what you said, I honestly believe you should look into FM programs and see what you think.

It would allow you to pursue your multiple interests and pretty much be able to pick your location if you have a decent app. If you found an unopposed program, you might just find yourself and your family quite happy.

And no, I'm not just saying this because I ended up going FM. I was in a fairly similar situation to yours....but decided against strictly OB/GYN due to the birth of my first child and realizing I wanted a field more family friendly than OB provides.

 

[peppy]

I have two classmates that applied to more than one specialty at their top choice hospital, because matching where their husbands lived was more important to them than getting their preferred specialty. Both successfully matched into their top choice at that hospital where they had dually applied. Obviously a very small sample size, but it shows you're not automatically black listed if you dual apply. Still, I've heard that overall it's not the best idea unless you have strong reasons why you have to be at a specific hospital.

Perhaps those people were lucky enough that the PDs happened to be understanding, or that the programs never found out about the dual applying. There have been stories on here of other people getting rejected by programs or getting an unfriendly response because the program busted them for applying to multiple specialties at the hospital.

 

[hotchocolate]

I interviewed at the same hospital for 2 different specialties this interview season. They didn't find out as far as I know about my having dually-applied. I was nervous about seeing someone from the other program especially during the second interview at that hospital though....how to explain why you are walking around in a suit other than for an interview? But thankfully, I didn't see anyone from the other program during either interview.

I didn't get "busted" or get unfriendly responses, however I matched at another hospital which I had preferred over that hospital, so no idea how my having dually applied affected my ranking. The interviews went well. However I don't think that applying to multiple specialties in the same hospital should be anything but a last-ditch resort due to the risk of getting caught and all the associated anxiety before and during the interview days. I would only recommend it if the different residency programs are somewhat geographically separated (for example, the departments are in different buildings on the same campus) and you can basically avoid the other program/department as much as possible during each interview day to avoid getting caught. As others have mentioned though, your best bet is just to pick one specialty. As an AMG with presumably passing Step scores, you should have no problem matching into something in primary care.

 

[sashIMI]

I interviewed at the same hospital for 2 different specialties this interview season. They didn't find out as far as I know about my having dually-applied. I was nervous about seeing someone from the other program especially during the second interview at that hospital though....how to explain why you are walking around in a suit other than for an interview? But thankfully, I didn't see anyone from the other program during either interview.

I didn't get "busted" or get unfriendly responses, however I matched at another hospital which I had preferred over that hospital, so no idea how my having dually applied affected my ranking. The interviews went well. However I don't think that applying to multiple specialties in the same hospital should be anything but a last-ditch resort due to the risk of getting caught and all the associated anxiety before and during the interview days. I would only recommend it if the different residency programs are somewhat geographically separated (for example, the departments are in different buildings on the same campus) and you can basically avoid the other program/department as much as possible during each interview day to avoid getting caught. As others have mentioned though, your best bet is just to pick one specialty. As an AMG with presumably passing Step scores, you should have no problem matching into something in primary care.

i also applied into multiple specialties (not closely related) at the same hospitals. as it turned out, i ended up getting interviews for different specialties at different places so i never had the risk of being seen by another department. no one ever mentioned anything to me either. i don't really think many departments compare applicants to other departments to try to catch people applying to multiple specialties. or it doesn't seem to happen too often at least. another thing you can consider is sending out ERAS applications to multiple specialties at the same hospitals, and then filtering through the interviews you get and just being careful about not scheduling 2 interviews at the same hospital...bc you never know which interviews you will and won't get in each specialty, and it always makes sense to apply to too many than too few programs.

 

[mcl]

Generally, PDs want to know that you are committed to their field, and if they know you are applying to multiple specialties many will not take your application seriously. That said, neither PDs nor coordinators have a lot of time during interview season to compare lists of applicants.

Your biggest risk in interviewing for two specialties at the same institution is being spotted during your interview for Specialty B by residents who met you when you interviewed with Specialty A (most likely during the tour of the facility). If that happens, you need to be prepared to do some damage control.

You could also be discovered more indirectly via the couple's match indicator if one party indicated that his/her significant other was applying to two specialties. Some coordinators might be inclined to share that type of information among themselves.

Of course, some PDs and programs simply won't care--especially those who understand the increased competitiveness of the Match.

 

[michigangirl]

If you are not commited to any particular city and have a few cities to choose from, I think it would be silly to interview in multiple specialties. In fact, I find it a little concerning that you said you "don't care" what specialty you go into. If that really is true and you like doing everything, go FP. It's a community need, its less competitive.

 

[hotchocolate]

another thing you can consider is sending out ERAS applications to multiple specialties at the same hospitals, and then filtering through the interviews you get and just being careful about not scheduling 2 interviews at the same hospital...bc you never know which interviews you will and won't get in each specialty, and it always makes sense to apply to too many than too few programs.

I completely agree. Sending out ERAS applications to multiple specialties at the same hospitals and then filtering through the interviews you get is probably the best idea. I agree also that it's better to apply to more programs than too few programs to avoid going unmatched--just avoid scheduling two interviews at the same hospital.

 

[drjds]

I'm in a strange situation and hope you guys can lead me in the right direction. I'm a rising fourth year at a West Coast school and am tired of being away from home. I have a husband and kids and we're wanting to get back to the Northeast.

I really don't care what specialty I'm in. There are several that I like and can see myself enjoying after doing the majority of my 3rd year clerkships. Would it be awful to apply to multiple specialties, specifically in the Boston area? I don't have the greatest board scores and that's why I don't want to bank on only one specialty when there are only a few programs around Boston. I'm thinking FM, IM, peds, and OB/GYN. Obviously, some applications will go to the same hospital so I don't know if PD's in different specialties talk or not and if this would be really bad. My top priority really is location. If I end up there, I'll be happy in any of those fields.

Advice?

Any recent updates on this question?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Any recent updates on this question?

That poster was last here April 23, 2011...

 

[drjds]

That poster was last here April 23, 2011...

Yea I know that! That's the reason why asked was there any "Updates"!!

 

[drjds]

And I wasn't asking the question specifically to the poster only....

 

[NotAProgDirector]

In general, it's a bad idea to apply to multiple specialties if you can avoid it. The chance of making a mistake is high -- an LOR that states you're applying to a different field, or the wrong PS, etc. Some programs will talk, especially if your application looks like you might be interested in a different field. If you actually get two interviews at a single program, someone might notice.

But, if that's what you want to do, it can be done.

 

[Keep Exploring]

Is there ever a situation where it would be acceptable to apply to two specialties? For example, if you are divorced, share joint custody of kids, but ex-spouse would be unwilling/unable to move?

 

[Crayola227]

sure, of course, point is thread pointed out potential potholes, risks, considerations, etc

 

[Keep Exploring]

In this type of situation, would it be better to bring it up at an interview? How would one address this type of issue? What do Program Directors think, as long as you are honest and up front--especially when applying to similar specialties such as FM and IM where you believe that you could be a great resident at either specialty? Maybe @aProgDirector could weigh in with some insight?

 

[the argus]

In this type of situation, would it be better to bring it up at an interview? How would one address this type of issue? What do Program Directors think, as long as you are honest and up front--especially when applying to similar specialties such as FM and IM where you believe that you could be a great resident at either specialty? Maybe @aProgDirector could weigh in with some insight?

This is a terrible idea. First, FM and IM are not that similar. FM is an outpatient specialty with some inpatient experience, and IM is an inpatient specialty with some outpatient experience. It's true that people from each specialty could end up with similar practices, but the actual experience during residency will be very different. Second, most people could be a great resident in multiple specialties. PDs want people who are passionate about the specialty, not just someone who will be serviceable.

The application you send to each specific specialty should be unambiguous for that specialty. A PD should in no way be able to think that you are applying to multiple specialties. And if you are asked this question during an interview, you should unequivocally say that the specialty you are interviewing for is your top choice. PDs will choose a less qualified applicant that is committed to the field over a more qualified applicant that is uncommitted, every time.

It's OK to apply to multiple specialties, but you basically need to have 2 separate applications (LORs, PS). And if asked, you should never be "honest and up front" and say you're still deciding. If you do this, most PDs will automatically put you in the DNR pile.

 

[Crayola227]

Honest & upfront about a great deal of things is a terrible idea in medicine in many cases. It's all about appearances.

1) never lie about clinical stuff (like a lab value you don't know, PE manuveur you didn't do) because even if unlikely to be caught if you are you are ruined

2) never lie if there's a good chance of being caught or you won't be able to wiggle out
(This is not one of those times, say you said "this is the only specialty for me" & later it was found out you applied to 2, well, there's some wiggle room there. Feelings are subjective & subject to change on a whim at any time)

3) whatever you write in notes you must be willing to swear to the same in court

4) don't lie to patients when it comes to malpractice stuff, at the same time, keep your mouth shut

You can always lie about your feelings, in fact, it's to be encouraged. Especially in medicine.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

In this type of situation, would it be better to bring it up at an interview? How would one address this type of issue? What do Program Directors think, as long as you are honest and up front--especially when applying to similar specialties such as FM and IM where you believe that you could be a great resident at either specialty? Maybe @aProgDirector could weigh in with some insight?

It's perhaps not quite as dark as Argus makes it out to be, but I agree I wouldn't bring it up unless asked. If asked about it, then admit that you have applied to 2 specialties and stress why you like this one. We look for applicants applying to two fields and try to screen them out of interviews. Once we interview them, we often rank them.

 

[Apollyon]

It's perhaps not quite as dark as Argus makes it out to be, but I agree I wouldn't bring it up unless asked. If asked about it, then admit that you have applied to 2 specialties and stress why you like this one. We look for applicants applying to two fields and try to screen them out of interviews. Once we interview them, we often rank them.

"Screen out", as in, you catch them, and don't interview them, but, if they slip through, you often rank them? Or, is it "screen out", as in, you identify these folks, and try to "poach" them (for lack of a better term) from the other specialty, or get to them first? This is just to clarify.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Don't interview them, rank them if they slip through. At that point, if I'm their second choice specialty and they match to me, they are not matching to their 1st choice.

 

[Keep Exploring]

It's perhaps not quite as dark as Argus makes it out to be, but I agree I wouldn't bring it up unless asked. If asked about it, then admit that you have applied to 2 specialties and stress why you like this one. We look for applicants applying to two fields and try to screen them out of interviews. Once we interview them, we often rank them.

So, if an applicant is very motivated to stay in their home state, and for legitimate family reasons, decides to apply to two specialties that are truly appealing with equal pros and cons, they are basically screwed if the PDs "find out?" There aren't situations where location trumps specialty choice?

Also, in order to try and avoid being screened out, should one email the PD directly to alert them to their reasoning?

 

[the argus]

So, if an applicant is very motivated to stay in their home state, and for legitimate family reasons, decides to apply to two specialties that are truly appealing with equal pros and cons, they are basically screwed if the PDs "find out?" There aren't situations where location trumps specialty choice?

Also, in order to try and avoid being screened out, should one email the PD directly to alert them to their reasoning?

Of course there are situations where location trumps specialty choice. We are just trying to tell you that broadcasting that fact to a PD is a horrible idea. If you are smart about it, and don't interview in both specialties at the same institution, the likelihood of a PD finding out is extremely small. And even if you do interview at the same institution, chances are the respective PDs won't find out.

You have to look at it from a PD's perspective. While every applicant likes to think that they are a unique snowflake that will bring something special to whichever residency program is lucky enough to have them, the truth is that a FM or IM program is going to receive thousands of applications, the majority of which will be from similarly qualified applicants. A PD's job is of course to fill their class with competent physicians, but it's also to fill their class with people that will be pleasant to work with (i.e. happy in their specialty) and also that are most likely to complete their training (finding PGY2/3 residents mid-year is a pain in the ass). Why would a PD take a chance on someone who hasn't committed to their specialty when there are literally hundreds of other similarly qualified applicants who have, at least to the PD's knowledge, unequivocally committed to their specialty? It's just not worth the risk from a PD's perspective, hence why as @aProgDirector stated, they will try to screen you out.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

My job is to run my residency program. It's not to make sure you get a job in the location that you're interested in. The reason I screen out applicants who apply to 2 specialties is that I don't want to waste my time interviewing people who are really trying to get into Derm/Rads/RadOnc/Plastics/Ortho etc. And those applying to IM and FM are usually weaker.

Your geographic issue may be seen as a strength. Instead of telling PD's that you're applying to multiple fields, use your PS to talk about how important it is for you to stay locally. That will tell me that you're serious about my program.

 

[thoffen]

To add to the personal anecdote, I applied for 2 specialties, including both specialties within the same hospital system at 2 different places. At each of those places I interviewed separately for each program, and I matched into my #1 choice (which was one of these programs). I have no idea whether any of these places knew I applied to multiple specialties much less in the same hospital. It is possible for them to find out somehow, but unless you really stand out in a special way to a program director or a faculty member who interviews you has overlapping appointments, it seems unlikely they will notice. If they do, I think applying to different primary care specialties is not the same deal stopper that aProgDirector describes. He doesn't want his program to be the backup, but it's harder to perceive that someone's IM program is backup to their FM/OBGYN program. Possibly on the FM side, but then again FM is less competitive so they'd be grasping heavily for any qualified AMG with genuine geographic interest anyway.

 

[Crayola227]

Most programs aren't "grasping" anywhere. Some, yes.

It is not hard to perceive that someone's IM program is a backup to their FM/OBGYN, although people fail to really grasp just how different IM and FM are. Enough that while applicants may feel equally comfortable either way, as aPD says, in a world where 10 people are interviewed for 1 spot, where does the person OK with either go in the pile compared to the people who can passionately state exactly why FM & IM are not interchangeable in their heart of hearts.

Listen guys, yes, life is life & will determine what you do. At the same time, ideals like "being upfront" "honest" & thinking the program gives a crap about you snowflake is ridiculous. I learned long ago medicine is business. Nasty nasty business dressed up in some altruism that does not extend to you in any measure.

Letting programs know you are going for more than one specialty is a no-no. If you were gen surg I imagine it's OK if it's known that you applied prelim surg too because you are that desperate for a foot in the field but I can't speak for cutters. There are some reach specialties where I understand that is the game, like neurosurgery, ortho, optho, etc where having a back up specialty is not held against you (except the backup would be sore if they knew).

Geez, is it so hard to understand that yes, you can apply to both, yes there are good reasons to do so, some that some people may find more or less sympathetic, still, no PDs don't like it, yes keep it under your hats.

I wish people just understood more that this is the way things are. Not so we can blindly accept them or never change them, I hate status quo, but just so you can ****ing survive. You don't realize how easy it is to **** yourself.

Approach the match as though your entire future depends on it. Because it does.

 

[CaliAtenza]

It's perhaps not quite as dark as Argus makes it out to be, but I agree I wouldn't bring it up unless asked. If asked about it, then admit that you have applied to 2 specialties and stress why you like this one. We look for applicants applying to two fields and try to screen them out of interviews. Once we interview them, we often rank them.

How do you know the applicant has applied to 2 specialties?

 

[Crayola227]

PDs talk. There's no HIPAA and while I think ERAS/NRMP has some policy (or maybe doesn't at all) it's nothing near the same.
Besides the PD, attendings, residents, everyone talks, even between specialties. The FM & IM PDs could very well be drinking buddies at an institution. You have no way of knowing.

I wouldn't be surprised if at some places the FM & IM PD actually compared notes to see if they had duplicates LOL.

Some things go through the same GME office too as I understand. For example, I know a community hospital that has a surg & FM & IM program. Each is separate but I think there are some higher up GME mucky-mucks that are involved with all 3. Who's to say they don't look over applications? At that hospital it's a small small world. The GME committee itself I know seats some of the PDs, assistant PDs, chairs, etc of all the programs together. So I know they are having coffee together I just don't know what they talk about.

Lastly, PDs, attendings, residents, PCs, hell, even med students, all have eyes. Sometimes they see you.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It's less complicated then that. It's an LOR that says you're applying to XXX when you apply to IM. It's research activity and SubI's in a different field. It's being president of the XXX interest club when applying to IM. It's away rotations in XXX.

 

[mcl]

How do you know the applicant has applied to 2 specialties?

For me we've found out via the residents: Either they see someone we've already interviewed wearing a suit and touring the hospital with applicants for another specialty, or the spouse of one of my residents attends our night-before-interview dinner and recognizes one of their applicants as one of our applicants. We don't rank if we find out. Of course there have been times we've been surprised after Match when we discover that someone we interviewed and ranked ended up going into another specialty, so it's not that it can't/doesn't ever happen. It's just a risk that if the stars line up wrong, you've potentially ruined your shot at two places (not to mention wasted the $$ associated with the visits). Everyone has to decide for themselves whether the risk is worth it.

 

[Keep Exploring]

I can certainly understand the point of view of the PD--essentially, the PD wants an applicant who is committed to the specialty, and not going to decide sometime later "Oops--this specialty isn't for me, I'm leaving."

For an applicant who is well aware of the (often significant) differences between FM and IM, however, isn't it also possible that the applicant is also interested in seeing which program is a good fit?

Let's not kid ourselves--as residency positions become more and more competitive, many applicants are applying to two specialties these days. And I think we could all agree that both the PD and the applicant are looking for the right fit (hence, interviews.) Screening out a person who is truly limited by geography, but also not quite sure if he would be a better fit in IM vs. FM within that geography, would never even give the PD a chance to hear what the applicant has to say about their situation in the first place! So, for this very compelling situation, what is an applicant to do?

 

[gutonc]

I can certainly understand the point of view of the PD--essentially, the PD wants an applicant who is committed to the specialty, and not going to decide sometime later "Oops--this specialty isn't for me, I'm leaving."

For an applicant who is well aware of the (often significant) differences between FM and IM, however, isn't it also possible that the applicant is also interested in seeing which program is a good fit?

Let's not kid ourselves--as residency positions become more and more competitive, many applicants are applying to two specialties these days. And I think we could all agree that both the PD and the applicant are looking for the right fit (hence, interviews.) Screening out a person who is truly limited by geography, but also not quite sure if he would be a better fit in IM vs. FM within that geography, would never even give the PD a chance to hear what the applicant has to say about their situation in the first place! So, for this very compelling situation, what is an applicant to do?

Your situation isn't that compelling. I mean, maybe it's compelling for you, but it's not even remotely compelling for the PDs involved.

Geographical limitations are a lot less compelling to PDs than to you. Unless your spouse/SO is the Governor or US Senator of the state you claim to need to be in, nobody will really care all that much about your geographical desires (don't lie and say that it's a need).

Finally, I'd love to see the data to support your statement that "many applicants are applying to two specialties these days". That's some good stuff right there.

 

[Raryn]

Finally, I'd love to see the data to support your statement that "many applicants are applying to two specialties these days". That's some good stuff right there.

Data is available in charting outcomes if someone really wants to calculate it. Last I looked at it, something like 5% of US grads who ranked IM first had a second (or more) specialty somewhere on their rank list, compared to like, 80% of people who primarily applied Derm. Note, that some of those Derm people had just ranked prelims on their main list as well just in case, which counts as a "second" specialty.

Independant applicants applied to multiple specialties at a higher rate. Maybe 20% of people who ranked IM first iirc.

 

[gutonc]

Data is available in charting outcomes if someone really wants to calculate it. Last I looked at it, something like 5% of US grads who ranked IM first had a second (or more) specialty somewhere on their rank list, compared to like, 80% of people who primarily applied Derm. Note, that some of those Derm people had just ranked prelims on their main list as well just in case, which counts as a "second" specialty.

Independant applicants applied to multiple specialties at a higher rate. Maybe 20% of people who ranked IM first iirc.

Sure...Derm and IM or Ortho and Gen Surg. But not IM and FM.

 

[Keep Exploring]

Sure...Derm and IM or Ortho and Gen Surg. But not IM and FM.

Maybe in your ivory tower of academic internal medicine where you can't fathom that an applicant who is interested in primary care would apply to both specialties, this would be the case. I can actually think of very few colleagues who haven't applied to two specialties. Also, as @Raryn stated, the data is in charting outcomes. Table 5.

 

[Raryn]

Maybe in your ivory tower of academic internal medicine where you can't fathom that an applicant who is interested in primary care would apply to both specialties, this would be the case. I can actually think of very few colleagues who haven't applied to two specialties. Also, as @Raryn stated, the data is in charting outcomes. Table 5.

That's overstating it a little bit. I can think of the vast majority of my colleagues who hadn't applied to two specialties, and while I'm IM, I'm also pretty darn far from the ivory tower.