Are NYC residencies as horrific / malignant as people portray?

[adc_needs_buff]

Hello,

I've been reading up a lot of horror stories for NYC residencies and how everyone is telling others to stay clear of it. However, I'm not too sure if this is representative of how NYC residencies actually are. Just like how many physicians / students encourage not to pursue medicine nowadays on SDN/Reddit/SNS, is this a similar case for NYC? I'd really like to do my residency there as I love the city, but these stories make me question little bit. I'm willing to put in more work as a resident in NYC seeing that the COL is higher and what not, so those aspects I do not mind at all about NYC.

Would be great if I got some feedbacks from students who rotated there / NYC residents.

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[The wise one]

My advice is: if more than 2 people are saying the same thing about a program. I d listen.

Medicine is a busy field, so when someone take their time and review a program. It means something.

But you are adult, you can ignore their feedback.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

[last in line]

I'm sure it depends on the program. I know multiple people who are quite happy in their NYC programs.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

I'm willing to put in more work as a resident in NYC seeing that the COL is higher and what not,

Putting in more work as a resident does not result in you earning more money. Some programs may list their resident salaries online which can give you an idea of what you'll be working with. The concerns about some NYC residencies that I've heard (though I cannot verify at all, and not all programs are the same) have to do with malignant environment, lack of ancillary support, etc.

 

[The kitchen sink]

Hello,

I've been reading up a lot of horror stories for NYC residencies and how everyone is telling others to stay clear of it. However, I'm not too sure if this is representative of how NYC residencies actually are. Just like how many physicians / students encourage not to pursue medicine nowadays on SDN/Reddit/SNS, is this a similar case for NYC? I'd really like to do my residency there as I love the city, but these stories make me question little bit. I'm willing to put in more work as a resident in NYC seeing that the COL is higher and what not, so those aspects I do not mind at all about NYC.

Would be great if I got some feedbacks from students who rotated there / NYC residents.

Are you referring to the recent slew of physician suicides at Lincoln Hospital?
Some of NYC hospitals are reported to be notoriously malignant, FMG/IMG filled, labor mills - the hospitals need the cheap labor, and they know the resident's won't leave so they push it to the limit.
I trained at an NYC program a few years ago, and within my 3 years there, there were 2 physician suicides. It was extremely sad, and eye-opening and no amount of rationalization could explain any of it.

Edit: Just to add, as the above poster said, there are in NYC that are also just fine. It varies from hospital to hospital.

 

[adc_needs_buff]

Thank you for all your advices and thoughts. I will most likely just avoid the negative programs, but I’m not sure which ones are and which ones are not. Is there a way to see which hospitals aren’t malignant in NYC?

 

[EndlessEntropyy]

I just started IM residency this week at NYU. I love it so far and think I'm going to have an amazing, challenging but rewarding time. First time living in NYC. I feel extremely supported by my program from upper level residents to chiefs, PD and aPDs. There has been a lot of stress on resident wellness, making sure we don't work excessively or late on shifts and there are a lot of contingencies for days off and personal events, like we get a set # of wellness days we can use on outpatient/elective weeks and multiple options for swapping shifts for whatever reason. Tisch Kimmel is a state of the art hospital with ancillary staff really as good as anywhere. Havent worked at Bellevue yet but was assured many times residents really dont do blood draws or other scut work unless you want to. VA can be relatively rough but I doubt that experience is special to NYC VAs because I think the VA is just rougher in general wherever you are. And you have pretty good control over how much time you want to spend at Bellevue vs. TischKimmel and there are plenty of people here who love Bellevue and it's not like everyone wants to only be at TK.

I live in a rent controlled apartment near the hospital, a sizeable studio for $1800/month that doesn't feel cramped at all. Plus there's moonlighting available PGY2 and 3 so I could swing a nicer, larger apartment if I wanted to. All of NYU's hospitals are within a few blocks radius too, so commute is basically non-existent for most of us if you live in the neighborhood. I think NYU has the best location within NYC too of the Manhattan programs because it's a more centralized and Manhattan and other boroughs are more accessible, though there are residents who live in the upper east side or downtown and even in brooklyn, totally doable. And lower manhattan is the more "exciting" part and easy to get to.

Internship is gonna be tough whereever you are and residency wont be easy but the workload and hours here really dont seem that much worse from hospitals I've seen elsewhere. And of course we're in NYC with just so much to do and see on days off and after work. We have a 4+2 schedule (4 weeks inpatient, 2 weeks of electives/clinic with free weekends) which I think is great and 4 weeks of vacation. There will be plenty of days on some inpatient electives later in the year when I get more efficient that I'll be getting out as early as 4 pm ( though signout is usually 6pm on most inpatient)

So far have absolutely zero regrets ranking NYU as high as I did.

 

[Miles Gloriosus]

I just started IM residency this week at NYU. I love it so far and think I'm going to have an amazing, challenging but rewarding time. First time living in NYC. I feel extremely supported by my program from upper level residents to chiefs, PD and aPDs. There has been a lot of stress on resident wellness, making sure we don't work excessively or late on shifts and there are a lot of contingencies for days off and personal events, like we get a set # of wellness days we can use on outpatient/elective weeks and multiple options for swapping shifts for whatever reason. Tisch Kimmel is a state of the art hospital with ancillary staff really as good as anywhere. Havent worked at Bellevue yet but was assured many times residents really dont do blood draws or other scut work unless you want to. VA can be relatively rough but I doubt that experience is special to NYC VAs because I think the VA is just rougher in general wherever you are. And you have pretty good control over how much time you want to spend at Bellevue vs. TischKimmel and there are plenty of people here who love Bellevue and it's not like everyone wants to only be at TK.

I live in a rent controlled apartment near the hospital, a sizeable studio for $1800/month that doesn't feel cramped at all. Plus there's moonlighting available PGY2 and 3 so I could swing a nicer, larger apartment if I wanted to. All of NYU's hospitals are within a few blocks radius too, so commute is basically non-existent for most of us if you live in the neighborhood. I think NYU has the best location within NYC too of the Manhattan programs because it's a more centralized and Manhattan and other boroughs are more accessible, though there are residents who live in the upper east side or downtown and even in brooklyn, totally doable. And lower manhattan is the more "exciting" part and easy to get to.

Internship is gonna be tough whereever you are and residency wont be easy but the workload and hours here really dont seem that much worse from hospitals I've seen elsewhere. And of course we're in NYC with just so much to do and see on days off and after work. We have a 4+2 schedule (4 weeks inpatient, 2 weeks of electives/clinic with free weekends) which I think is great and 4 weeks of vacation. There will be plenty of days on some inpatient electives later in the year when I get more efficient that I'll be getting out as early as 4 pm ( though signout is usually 6pm on most inpatient)

So far have absolutely zero regrets ranking NYU as high as I did.

Do you have to draw your own labs, blood cultures, etc…?

 

[Prehealth1011]

I'm in IM. I placed all NYC programs straight to the bottom. I'm cheap af and I felt very uneasy about being there for three years, even with the higher salaries they usually give you

Then again, I'm a DO so the Cornells and the Mount Sinai's (the real one) didn't call me

 

[EndlessEntropyy]

Do you have to draw your own labs, blood cultures, etc…?

From time to time at the VA residents have to but that's the only place. I'm personally at our VA only 4 weeks the whole year, you can work as much or little as you want there as the different schedules allow.

 

[Thesimplelifeofamyloid]

I don't know why people lump all nyc residencies together. Obviously one's experience as a psych or rads resident at Cornell is going to be leaps and bounds better than internal medicine at Lincoln hospital or another hospital with predominantly imgs

 

[Banco]

Totally depends on the program and specialty.

 

[operaman]

I would only add that in addition to the issues on the hospital side, NYC has its own set of challenges and stresses. I read about the high numbers of physician suicides at NYC programs and I always wonder how many of them had lived in the city before residency. In my past life I spent a lot of time living/working in NYC and I've always marveled at how the city can magnify whatever you're feeling at any given moment.

If you're joyful and in love and feeling on top of the world, then the city can kick those feelings into overdrive for an unforgettable experience. If you're lonely and exhausted and depressed, it can drive you further into the ground than you ever thought possible. I've lived in a lot of major cities in the world and so far NYC is the only one I've seen that can do that with such consistency.

My gestalt is that when this dynamic gets applied to the inherent stresses and hardships of residency training, the results can be brutal. The extra workload place on housestaff there and the malignant culture in many hospitals just make it even more likely that trainees will find themselves struggling. For those who are very strong residency and/or with strong support systems locally, it's probably one of the greatest places to train. For the single/LDR transplants from flyover country, it has the potential to be tough.

I have friends who went there and now they refuse to live anywhere else. For many it's the only place they truly feel at home. Others bolted the first chance they got and never looked back. Being stuck there for 3-7 years in training is not a good place to be if you're one of the people who wants to put the city squarely in your rearview mirror.

Oh yeah and it's hella expensive. Feels like you have to insert a $20 bill into your alarm each morning to turn it off.

 

[InternistDO]

I went to med school in the city. The NYC area has something like 50 IM programs alone, so despite the echo chamber talk here and on Reddit about how all programs there are malignant you can’t paint all those programs with the same brush. As others have said, there are IMG sweatshops like Lincoln or Metropolitan that should be avoided but many of the other programs are fine, or used to be terrible but are improving (Downstate).

I will say that New York in general (for all industries) has a workaholic mentality and medicine in NY is no different. You will likely work more than you would in other programs in different cities even at the non malignant programs.

I liked training/living in the city and I’ll likely move back as an attending so I totally understand wanting to live/stay there. I’d only caution people that no city is worth going to a malignant scuthole for, and that’s as true for New York as it is for the Midwest or anywhere else.

 

[sylvanthus]

I nearly broke down my first month in NY (queens), when I did the math and realized I had over 2000 days to go. Was not a fan of that place.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Community hospitals tends to have more IMG/FMGS and they are used as cheap labor. Nurses and lot of attendings are rude to the residents. however my spouse survived that and went on to do fellowship at a T5. If you have a choice avoid those programs but if not, be prepared mentally for the grind and you will be fine.

 

[MedScat]

As someone limited to NYC for residency because of family stuff, I am scared

 

[snvmkn]

Are places like Columbia/Cornell better than community hospitals with respect to nursing and the treatment of residents?

 

[Thesimplelifeofamyloid]

Are places like Columbia/Cornell better than community hospitals with respect to nursing and the treatment of residents?

Probably. Just look at the salaries. PGY-3 stipend at cornell is $85,864 while PGY-3 at Lincoln is $ 74,469

 

[thatchemguy]

Probably. Just look at the salaries. PGY-3 stipend at cornell is $85,864 while PGY-3 at Lincoln is $ 74,469

Don't think he was talking about the pay. I'm more interested in the culture at the top IM programs in NYC (cornell, columbia, sinai, NYU) and if it is just as malignant at these programs as the other ton of IM programs. From what I've read on past threads, Columbia seems to be a hit or miss in terms of having a good residency experience and generally lack of good ancillary support, while Sinai/Cornell seem to be the most "cush."

 

[Dral]

I didn't do IM residency in NYC, but I did do residency there in another field. As an aside I absolutely LOVED living in Manhattan and miss it very much.

The way I understand things, the nurses in NYC (maybe just certain hospitals?) are unionized and have no problem with just saying "Nope, not doing that". That results in residents having to draw daily labs, wheel patients for studies, do EKGs, etc.

I did my intern year at UPMC and to contrast, I did an EKG on a floor patient once because the tech was no where to be found and it was a relatively acute situation. For everything else, I put orders in for patients and things just got done. I guess I took that for granted in a way. I just would have never even considered having to draw blood on my floor patients or wheel them anywhere. I would have done it if I had to, but there was always a nurse or someone else who took care of it.

I'm not sure I would classify the NYC IM programs as horrific, but maybe just not as easy to work through as another residency elsewhere with solid strong nursing/ancillary support.

 

[calvinhobbes]

AVOID Lincoln!

NYC doctor suicides raise concerns about treatment of resident physicians at Bronx hospital

Their deaths have rocked Lincoln, part of the city’s public Health+Hospitals network, and have raised questions about the rigors — and management — of the residency program there.

www.nydailynews.com

So many other malignant and toxic programs like this exist at NYC Health + Hospitals, so, just be aware of any hazing / IMG work-horse culture that may exist (and don’t apply to Lincoln, obviously).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I didn't do IM residency in NYC, but I did do residency there in another field. As an aside I absolutely LOVED living in Manhattan and miss it very much.

The way I understand things, the nurses in NYC (maybe just certain hospitals?) are unionized and have no problem with just saying "Nope, not doing that". That results in residents having to draw daily labs, wheel patients for studies, do EKGs, etc.

I did my intern year at UPMC and to contrast, I did an EKG on a floor patient once because the tech was no where to be found and it was a relatively acute situation. For everything else, I put orders in for patients and things just got done. I guess I took that for granted in a way. I just would have never even considered having to draw blood on my floor patients or wheel them anywhere. I would have done it if I had to, but there was always a nurse or someone else who took care of it.

I'm not sure I would classify the NYC IM programs as horrific, but maybe just not as easy to work through as another residency elsewhere with solid strong nursing/ancillary support.

So what do they actually do if they aren’t doing nursing tasks? Just charting?

 

[nowanmd]

i did my residency at North Shore Manhasset in IM. Manhasset is an upscale Long Island community very close to NYC. There ws very little scut and we probably worked as hard as an average residecncy program. I hear the pay is good and it is now q true university program with a medical school. Even when I was there they had a good placement record for fellowships. All in all a pretty good choice.

 

[Neopolymath]

So what do they actually do if they aren’t doing nursing tasks? Just charting?

Sitting there and playing on their phones. I wish I was joking.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Sitting there and playing on their phones. I wish I was joking.

That is absurd. Why does anyone work there?

 

[Neopolymath]

That is absurd. Why does anyone work there?

Because New York City is the greatest country (sic) on earth, duh.

But truly, not every single hospital is like that but I can personally verify that the stereotype is real for a reason. Staff is literally playing candy crush for most of their shift on some units. It's incredible to think about how much balls it would take to do that.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Because New York City is the greatest country (sic) on earth, duh.

But truly, not every single hospital is like that but I can personally verify that the stereotype is real for a reason. Staff is literally playing candy crush for most of their shift on some units. It's incredible to think about how much balls it would take to do that.

It actually doesn’t take a lot of balls when you know nothing can happen to you.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

I just started IM residency this week at NYU. I love it so far and think I'm going to have an amazing, challenging but rewarding time. First time living in NYC. I feel extremely supported by my program from upper level residents to chiefs, PD and aPDs. There has been a lot of stress on resident wellness, making sure we don't work excessively or late on shifts and there are a lot of contingencies for days off and personal events, like we get a set # of wellness days we can use on outpatient/elective weeks and multiple options for swapping shifts for whatever reason. Tisch Kimmel is a state of the art hospital with ancillary staff really as good as anywhere. Havent worked at Bellevue yet but was assured many times residents really dont do blood draws or other scut work unless you want to. VA can be relatively rough but I doubt that experience is special to NYC VAs because I think the VA is just rougher in general wherever you are. And you have pretty good control over how much time you want to spend at Bellevue vs. TischKimmel and there are plenty of people here who love Bellevue and it's not like everyone wants to only be at TK.

I live in a rent controlled apartment near the hospital, a sizeable studio for $1800/month that doesn't feel cramped at all. Plus there's moonlighting available PGY2 and 3 so I could swing a nicer, larger apartment if I wanted to. All of NYU's hospitals are within a few blocks radius too, so commute is basically non-existent for most of us if you live in the neighborhood. I think NYU has the best location within NYC too of the Manhattan programs because it's a more centralized and Manhattan and other boroughs are more accessible, though there are residents who live in the upper east side or downtown and even in brooklyn, totally doable. And lower manhattan is the more "exciting" part and easy to get to.

Internship is gonna be tough whereever you are and residency wont be easy but the workload and hours here really dont seem that much worse from hospitals I've seen elsewhere. And of course we're in NYC with just so much to do and see on days off and after work. We have a 4+2 schedule (4 weeks inpatient, 2 weeks of electives/clinic with free weekends) which I think is great and 4 weeks of vacation. There will be plenty of days on some inpatient electives later in the year when I get more efficient that I'll be getting out as early as 4 pm ( though signout is usually 6pm on most inpatient)

So far have absolutely zero regrets ranking NYU as high as I did.

A few things.

1. NYUs IM residency nearly went full mutiny during COVID after the very program leadership you call ''supportive'' refused to offer their residents life insurance during covid, and called their own residents unprofessional for wanting hazard pay despite several of them throughout the institution contracting covid and becoming hospitalized. While there is an illusion of being supportive that NYU likes to push, in reality it's probably just as malignant as any other NYC academic program. Anecdotally there have been multiple suicides, multiple near-overdoses and other concerning issues regarding resident wellness at that institution.

2. You WILL draw your own labs at Bellevue. That is almost a guarantee, and if you don't do it your patients won't get care. This shouldnt be the norm, however is par for the course

3. Paying 1800/month to not even have a bedroom isn't a good thing. That's literally half of your take home pay as a NYC resident. Furthermore, NYU is the only program of the "big four" academic institutions in NYC (NYU, Cornell, Columbia, SInai) that doesn't guarantee resident housing, meaning that a large # of your coresidents are paying considerably more than you are, or are commuting from considerably further away than you for work.

That's not to say that NYU is any worse than the NYC average but the notion that it's all upside is pretty laughable. That place has a lot of issues.

Source: Married to a recent NYU grad. We've compared notes - the NYC programs are all the same for the most part. Got the fxck outta that ridiculously expensive hellhole and have no regrets.

 

[Miles Gloriosus]

It actually doesn’t take a lot of balls when you know nothing can happen to you.

All the attendings/hospital admins see is that the work gets done. Doesn’t matter by who. RNs heavily unionized so falls onto the resident minion to fill in the gap.

 

[Neopolymath]

It actually doesn’t take a lot of balls when you know nothing can happen to you.

My conscious is stronger than my fear of authority personally.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

My conscious is stronger than my fear of authority personally.

When you’re just looking for a paycheck with as little work as possible, a heavily unionized job where you can do nothing without fear of repercussions is perfect.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

i did my residency at North Shore Manhasset in IM. Manhasset is an upscale Long Island community very close to NYC. There ws very little scut and we probably worked as hard as an average residecncy program. I hear the pay is good and it is now q true university program with a medical school. Even when I was there they had a good placement record for fellowships. All in all a pretty good choice.

I did my intern year at North Shore/Long Island Jewish Medical Center. North Shore is in Manhasset in Long Island and just two miles away, Long Island Jewish is in Queens.

Solid intern year overall. I wouldn't called it cush, but I also agree that there isn't much in terms of scut (though Long Island Jewish is slightly more scuttier). If this still remains true, then the program gives preliminary interns 15-18 weeks of elective time instead of clinic time which can be pretty chill depending on which electives you do. If I had to redo my prelim year, I would not mind to go there again.

Lincoln Medical Center though, **** that place.

 

[longhaul3]

I was shocked when I left NYC and saw a nurse place a foley for the first time.

Haven't placed one since.

 

[QuizzicalApe]

I was shocked when I left NYC and saw a nurse place a foley for the first time.

Haven't placed one since.

I have placed a foley once in my life, as an M3 in an OR to help out.

I have never in my life drawn labs on any patient, and at this phase in my career that means I never will.

I am very happy to have not applied to any NYC programs at any point in my training

 

[matthew87922]

I nearly broke down my first month in NY (queens), when I did the math and realized I had over 2000 days to go. Was not a fan of that place.

Hey, I want to go back to flushing to be around with my family so i want to apply to NYHQ or flushing medical center for prelim. Can you elaborate a little more about why you broke down? Did you do a lot scut work? How many hours per week in average you were working? Did you get support from the program? Sorry it’s lots of questions, thank you in advance!

 

[flasheroonie]

Sorry this thread hit a personal nerve with me. TL/DR: NYC programs are truly militaristic, try looking elsewhere unless you really have to go to NYC IMHO.

Training programs in NYC are absolutely more militaristic than elsewhere in the nation. I can tell you from first-hand experience. I didn't even know how bad it was until experiencing how much better it could be after moving to the Boston area to work and teach.

Places like Cornell, Sinai, NYU and their ilk in NYC think they're the best in the world and use that attitude to take advantage of their trainees and treat them like dirt, make you fight tooth and nail for pay and benefits, and send you home crying regularly, with such a cutthroat and militaristic atmosphere.

Boston training programs, however, have a completely different atmosphere. Yes, you will work hard, but you will also learn and be supported through it all properly. The thought process in Boston is that once you're in the top program in the country, why treat each other badly? There is a true emphasis among all faculty to support students and residents as they go through their training, to understand how difficult training itself already is, and to truly help them through difficulties. There is no superiority/inferiority complex with anyone in Boston because everyone is already the best at what they do. There is an inherent underlying stress that's involved with working with those who are truly the top in their fields, but you soon realize that you're there with them and they're actually teaching you and treating you like a human being. It's a world of difference.

The student and resident suicides that occurred in NYC were utter tragedies and nothing changed in any of those programs to prevent these things from happening again. Nothing. No root cause analysis. No changes whatsoever to the militaristic and unhealthy attitudes of the faculty and the hospital systems in NYC. Just emails basically saying, "You probably heard of this person taking their life. Here are some links to resources if you're having any issues."

 

[SkullbaseFoLyfe]

Adding to what others have said - I think this is VERY much hospital and specialty dependent. I would think that specialties that have to deal more with nursing staff are much more prone to the pain that is associated with nursing unions. (I think the majority of the pain is a result of nursing unions) As a surgeon I think that I am a bit more shielded from talking with nurses who arent willing to try difficult blood draws. But I certainly interact with nurses who make it clear that they are working a specific shift and arent interested in doing any extra legwork to move the day along.

Although I have to add that sometimes being forced to do 'more' or 'unnecessary' work as a resident can lead to more competent attendings. The nurses in the OR at certain hospitals have no interest in helping me find equipment or help me set up a microscope. Which is certainly painful, but results in residents who are able to troubleshoot in a pinch in the future. Its not ideal but it has its advantages.

 

[Browns99]

Sorry this thread hit a personal nerve with me. TL/DR: NYC programs are truly militaristic, try looking elsewhere unless you really have to go to NYC IMHO.

Training programs in NYC are absolutely more militaristic than elsewhere in the nation. I can tell you from first-hand experience. I didn't even know how bad it was until experiencing how much better it could be after moving to the Boston area to work and teach.

Places like Cornell, Sinai, NYU and their ilk in NYC think they're the best in the world and use that attitude to take advantage of their trainees and treat them like dirt, make you fight tooth and nail for pay and benefits, and send you home crying regularly, with such a cutthroat and militaristic atmosphere.

Boston training programs, however, have a completely different atmosphere. Yes, you will work hard, but you will also learn and be supported through it all properly. The thought process in Boston is that once you're in the top program in the country, why treat each other badly? There is a true emphasis among all faculty to support students and residents as they go through their training, to understand how difficult training itself already is, and to truly help them through difficulties. There is no superiority/inferiority complex with anyone in Boston because everyone is already the best at what they do. There is an inherent underlying stress that's involved with working with those who are truly the top in their fields, but you soon realize that you're there with them and they're actually teaching you and treating you like a human being. It's a world of difference.

The student and resident suicides that occurred in NYC were utter tragedies and nothing changed in any of those programs to prevent these things from happening again. Nothing. No root cause analysis. No changes whatsoever to the militaristic and unhealthy attitudes of the faculty and the hospital systems in NYC. Just emails basically saying, "You probably heard of this person taking their life. Here are some links to resources if you're having any issues."

It is hospital/residency specific like any other ones in the US. Your post comes off quite frankly as someone who seems to be a bit angry. Unless you spent time in every NYC hospital and every residency, you cannot pass judgment.

It is then clear through your posting and purpose for doing it when you mention Boston that your true colors come through when you said "There is no superiority/inferiority complex with anyone in Boston because everyone is already the best at what they do." That line alone tells me you are trying to say that Boston is the best and NYC think their the best which is downright laughable.

Most intelligent people reading posts like yours will see right through them.

Please make sure your posts are meant to add something positive whether it be a positive or negative review of something YOU actually experienced (not what you heard) , nonetheless offer something of value, don't cast negative postings about programs you have no clue about.

 

[collegestud2013]

Hello,

I've been reading up a lot of horror stories for NYC residencies and how everyone is telling others to stay clear of it. However, I'm not too sure if this is representative of how NYC residencies actually are. Just like how many physicians / students encourage not to pursue medicine nowadays on SDN/Reddit/SNS, is this a similar case for NYC? I'd really like to do my residency there as I love the city, but these stories make me question little bit. I'm willing to put in more work as a resident in NYC seeing that the COL is higher and what not, so those aspects I do not mind at all about NYC.

Would be great if I got some feedbacks from students who rotated there / NYC residents.

It's very program and specialty dependent. Ancillary staffing tends to be poor across the board in most hospitals in NYC so this affects mostly specialties that that are inpatient service heavy like IM or Surgery and work more with nursing staff.

This is less of an issue for outpatient-heavy or mostly consult specialties like derm, radiology, pathology, ophtho. The nursing and other ancillary staff unions essentially limit what one ancillary staff can do so hospitals have to pay much more money out of their own budget to hire unionized staff to get the same work done as elsewhere. Instead of doing that, they put it on residents (which have no unions and are paid a fixed salary that's funded by CMS). And as others have pointed out this issue especially prominent and community programs that are nearly 100% IMGs but even at big name academic medical centers, be prepared to do more scut and work longer hours than in in a non-NYC program if you're doing IM or Surgery. Most of these programs violate ACGME rules like crazy but it seems like even the ACMGE (who in theory can regulate programs and but them on probation or cut their funding) has mostly given up on trying to fix these issues since fixing these issues involves fixing an entire system which is hard to do.

As for the COL, most residents will expect to be financially worse off in NYC. The slightly higher salaries (around $70-80k in most NYC programs, vs $50-60k for program in a low to average COL area) doesn't nearly make up for the MUCH steeper COL and insane taxes. The only way you might be financially similar in Manhattan as resident/fellow compared a normal COL city (and on your own without someone else's financial help) is if your program's base salary is among the highest ($80-90k/year) AND you get a program with heavily subsidized housing AND your program offers good moonlighting opportunities and has enough free to for you to moonlight so you can make an extra $20-30k per year. Otherwise, some residents have spouses with higher paying jobs or already have family in NYC so they can live with them and not pay rent.

Long story short, if you have options and aren't geographically tied to NYC, I would avoid for residency.

 

[vit8bsm]

I've heard NYC and honestly most residencies in the 5 boroughs are pretty horrible, but I've also heard NYU residencies are chill AF, specifically anesthesia

 

[MedScat]

I've heard NYC and honestly most residencies in the 5 boroughs are pretty horrible, but I've also heard NYU residencies are chill AF, specifically anesthesia

Are you from NY? NYU is known to be the most toxic of all the major academic programs in my specialty of interest (EM)....

 

[vit8bsm]

Are you from NY? NYU is known to be the most toxic of all the major academic programs in my specialty of interest (EM)....

Yes I am, spoke with a anesthesia resident in NY last month and he told me NYU has the chillest anesthesiology program, hence why I said specifically anesthesia. Just hearsay though

 

[odyssey2]

Radiology NYC programs are apparently pretty cush too. Very specialty specific.

 

[FutureInternist]

So what do they actually do if they aren’t doing nursing tasks? Just charting?

Facebook statuses don’t update themselves… 😏

 

[FutureInternist]

I was shocked when I left NYC and saw a nurse place a foley for the first time.

Haven't placed one since.

Every spare moment in Residency should be for sleep or study…. No one should have to take pts to Radiology, draw labs or place foleys.

F NY programs… 😏

 

[Mass Effect]

When a city is known for having so many more physician suicides than any other city in the country, it's something to keep on your mental checklist. And it's not just Lincoln either. Google Sinai's record sometime and some of the others in the city. NYC is way overrated.

 

[Lawpy]

Radiology NYC programs are apparently pretty cush too. Very specialty specific.

I mean rads in general can be pretty cush too. Hence the (unfortunate) surge in popularity recently

 

[odyssey2]

I mean rads in general can be pretty cush too. Hence the (unfortunate) surge in popularity recently

Why unfortunate?

 

[Browns99]

When a city is known for having so many more physician suicides than any other city in the country, it's something to keep on your mental checklist. And it's not just Lincoln either. Google Sinai's record sometime and some of the others in the city. NYC is way overrated.

Unfortunately, there will always be a bias against "top" programs on this forum...Harvard, NYU, Columbia, Penn, JHU, etc. and typically it comes from those that are regurgitating what they heard without any factual basis. Have there been suicides in NYC programs, of course, have there been suicides in residencies across the country, of course and you may not hear of them because the media market is not as big as it is in the NY metropolitan area.

Posters throw the word malignant around without ever giving context. Sure you work hard in a busy, top rated program, would you expect anything different? The fact is that the busy programs, again, Harvard, John Hopkins, Penn, NYU and I could go on, are the best because of the volume, attending doctors with academic achievements, research, grants, ground-braking procedures, etc.