Aren't MMIs flawed in the fact that they neglect the ability of an applicant to develop rapport?

[FutureFACS]

I was listening to some comments from a person involved with the admissions process at one of my favorite schools, and they said in their opinion, MMIs neglect to assess the ability of the applicant to develop a strong interpersonal connection (rapport) with someone else.

I realize that this is a double edged sword, and that you don't want interviewers advocating for someone just because they were able to have a conversational interview...

But, isn't the ability to create a strong doctor-patient relationship vital to the medical profession? How do schools that use MMIs assess this ability?


Edit: Clarity

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[ridethecliche]

Omg you're a genius. The entire process is invalid. We must change EVERYTHING at once!

 

[FutureFACS]

Omg you're a genius. The entire process is invalid. We must change EVERYTHING at once!

I appreciate the sarcasm, but I am just trying to see how MMIs overcome this (and how I can demonstrate my interpersonal skills in an 8 minute window, lol).

Edit: Grammar

 

[ridethecliche]

By being personable, answering questions thoughtfully and directly, and not being an ass to other interviewees.

 

[FutureFACS]

By being personable, answering questions thoughtfully and directly, and not being an ass to other interviewees.

Fair enough, I guess I'd have to actually experience an MMI before knowing if there is enough of an opportunity to be personable with my interviewers. In my traditional interviews, I felt like the 30 minute interviews allowed me to convey a pretty thorough picture of myself as an applicant.

 

[boltedbicorne]

MMIs are garbage. 1 on 1 is fun and you actually get to have a real conversation and learn about someone. It accesses interpersonal skills way better than some janky 5 minute contrived scenarios that when grouped together are more "let's have statistical analysis all for the sake of having statistical analysis that may not prove anything".

MMIs are also way more complicated to plan and execute for no reason.

 

[exmoderpina]

I hear ya, but I think of it like this: perhaps since some specialists nowadays often have <8 min to evaluate and chat with patients, the MMI can demonstrate one's ability to demonstrate rapport (although it can be called a bit superficial, yes) with a stranger in a small span of time?

 

[Mad Jack]

MMIs allow a better assessment of the ability of potential physicians to think quickly on their feet and build rapport in a short period of time. As was noted before, most physicians have a short period of time with which to see their patients- the MMI is more indicative of your ability to function in these short encounters than a traditional interview.

 

[FutureFACS]

MMIs allow a better assessment of the ability of potential physicians to think quickly on their feet and build rapport in a short period of time. As was noted before, most physicians have a short period of time with which to see their patients- the MMI is more indicative of your ability to function in these short encounters than a traditional interview.

I hear ya, but I think of it like this: perhaps since some specialists nowadays often have <8 min to evaluate and chat with patients, the MMI can demonstrate one's ability to demonstrate rapport (although it can be called a bit superficial, yes) with a stranger in a small span of time?

These are both excellent points! I guess I'll just have to experience an MMI first, but I just assumed it was all talk about the particular question without opportunity to really develop a sense of rapport (however, I guess you would ideally do both..).

 

[boltedbicorne]

MMIs allow a better assessment of the ability of potential physicians to think quickly on their feet and build rapport in a short period of time. As was noted before, most physicians have a short period of time with which to see their patients- the MMI is more indicative of your ability to function in these short encounters than a traditional interview.

assessing people for something they're going to learn in medical school is just silly.

 

[Mad Jack]

assessing people for something they're going to learn in medical school is just silly.

Medical school neither teaches you how to relate to people in short encounters nor how to think quickly on your feet. You need these skills going in if you are going to succeed.

 

[boltedbicorne]

Medical school neither teaches you how to relate to people in short encounters nor how to think quickly on your feet. You need these skills going in if you are going to succeed.

lol

 

[Mad Jack]

lol

Are you serious? Do you really think when you get to medical school they're going to just have a course called "relating to people quickly and efficiently while not being ******ed 101?"

 

[boltedbicorne]

Are you serious? Do you really think when you get to medical school they're going to just have a course called "relating to people quickly and efficiently while not being ******ed 101?"

although this isn't explicitly covered as a subject in medical school, what do you think all of the medical humanities, barrage of standardized patients, panels, mock scenarios, small group team-building, h&ps, and other exercises you're given are for? Be serious dude. 1:1 interviews can still assess everything you mentioned better too.

 

[Mad Jack]

although this isn't explicitly covered as a subject in medical school, what do you think all of the medical humanities, barrage of standardized patients, panels, mock scenarios, small group team-building, h&ps, and other exercises you're given are for? Be serious dude. 1:1 interviews can still assess everything you mentioned better too.

The medical humanities covered are mostly professionalism and ethics, not relating to patients. The team building exercises pretty much stop after orientation. The mock interviews help you with the art of doing an OPQRST efficiently, but don't really help you relate to actual sick human beings. Standardized patients are more of the same- they're role playing, so you don't really get a good feel for how to actually talk to them, since everything they do is faked. MMIs do a good job of selecting people who have solid interpersonal skills, ability to handle stress, and ability to think quickly and efficiently in social and professional situations. If you're looking for a tool to select who has stronger baseline (and likely potential) social, professional, and stress management skills, the MMI is the way to do it.

 

[breakintheroof]

I was listening to some comments from a person involved with the admissions process at one of my favorite schools, and they said in their opinion, MMIs neglect to assess the ability of the applicant to develop a strong interpersonal connection (rapport) with someone else.

The motivation for the MMI is evidence that the interview evaluation (of which rapport seems like a particularly subjective component) depends as much on the interviewer as it does on the interviewee. In an MMI, you interact with more interviewers in order to mitigate this.

@Bovary wrote a good post about this on another thread earlier today: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/index.php?posts/15743370

 

[boltedbicorne]

The medical humanities covered are mostly professionalism and ethics, not relating to patients. The team building exercises pretty much stop after orientation. The mock interviews help you with the art of doing an OPQRST efficiently, but don't really help you relate to actual sick human beings. Standardized patients are more of the same- they're role playing, so you don't really get a good feel for how to actually talk to them, since everything they do is faked. MMIs do a good job of selecting people who have solid interpersonal skills, ability to handle stress, and ability to think quickly and efficiently in social and professional situations. If you're looking for a tool to select who has stronger baseline (and likely potential) social, professional, and stress management skills, the MMI is the way to do it.

oh rly if you believe MMIs are that valid what's your backup? an astrology table?

 

[KnuxNole]

although this isn't explicitly covered as a subject in medical school, what do you think all of the medical humanities, barrage of standardized patients, panels, mock scenarios, small group team-building, h&ps, and other exercises you're given are for? Be serious dude. 1:1 interviews can still assess everything you mentioned better too.

That **** won't "teach" you that stuff, it would be pathetic to have to teach people that stuff anyway. H+Ps, standardized patients, small groups are something that WONT teach 99.9% of med students that, at all. Basically, it's hoops to jump through, that is common sense to every waking human walking through. If you haven't gained the ability before med school to be compassionate, you won't ever gain that ability whatsoever walking in. Unless you are a robot who can be programmed emotion and human abilities...in addition to your dual lasers and homing missiles :O

 

[Mad Jack]

oh rly if you believe MMIs are that valid what's your backup? an astrology table?

You've got a med student and a resident who have basically said you can't learn these skills in med school. People who actually know something about what med school is like. There's a bit of a chance we know what we're talking about more than you do.

 

[VanEman]

There's pitifully little research on what really correlates with or predicts success in medical school beyond GPA and MCAT. Interviews, letters of recommendation and clinical experience don't predict much of anything. Shorter structured interviews appear to be a little better that long free-form ones. But that's not saying much...

 

[Nica56744]

Maybe I just haven't connected with the people I had traditional interviews with, but I loved the MMI. I talked to 9 people. Some I liked more than others and sometimes we stayed on topic more than others, but I didn't feel a lack of connection at all. For several, for a while after the bell to move we were standing in the room finishing our conversation over time. One gave me his card to follow up about a specific program/initiative. I'm sure there are plusses and minuses to both approaches, but I really liked getting the chance to talk to 9 people instead of 1 or 2. We were also explicitly told that if the question had been answered/conversation was over that we should say thank you and exit the room. I did this once or twice. It suprisingly wasn't awkward and was great to be able to just let a conversation or a rough scenario end before I rambled myself into saying something stupid.

 

[cs24]

Fair enough, I guess I'd have to actually experience an MMI before knowing if there is enough of an opportunity to be personable with my interviewers. In my traditional interviews, I felt like the 30 minute interviews allowed me to convey a pretty thorough picture of myself as an applicant.

Yeah wait to you experience one before you judge it. I was a bit skeptical before my interview, but I actually really preferred the MMI to traditional interviews. Now, as an MMI interviewer, I still think it is a great way to evaluate candidates.

The interview is not a place for me to get a "thorough picture of you as an applicant" That's what the rest of your app is for. The interview is solely to test your interpersonal skills and communication, for which 8 minutes is plenty (and you get 8+ people's opinions on the matter). Then your interview is less likely to be made or broken by how well you connect with some random faculty. Just wait til you have your first 1 on 1 interview where you don't connect with the faculty at all. You will be wishing it was an MMI!

 

[cs24]

although this isn't explicitly covered as a subject in medical school, what do you think all of the medical humanities, barrage of standardized patients, panels, mock scenarios, small group team-building, h&ps, and other exercises you're given are for? Be serious dude. 1:1 interviews can still assess everything you mentioned better too.

They teach you how to take and H and P and perform a physical exam. The basic empathy, interpersonal skills, and communication skills are things you develop from the time you start communicating with others as a child, and are unlikely to be modified much at all by medical school.

Edit- (see underlined above) which is another great thing about MMIs, you don't need to prepare at all. No rehearsing of 5 minute monologues about "why medicine" or practicing how to talk about yourself in a way that makes you sound awesome, yet modest. We just want to see what you are like when you are being yourself, conversing with a peer.

 

[bass69]

Some schools do a hybrid (ie MMI then one traditional interview) which I think works really well

 

[FutureFACS]

I didn't mean to cause such a fuss with this post lol!!

 

[Goro]

Time for some homework, OP, and you too, bicorne.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18338992
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19335577
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19335578
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17430283

I was listening to some comments from a person involved with the admissions process at one of my favorite schools, and they said in their opinion, MMIs neglect to assess the ability of the applicant to develop a strong interpersonal connection (rapport) with someone else.

I realize that this is a double edged sword, and that you don't want interviewers advocating for someone just because they were able to have a conversational interview...

But, isn't the ability to create a strong doctor-patient relationship vital to the medical profession? How do schools that use MMIs assess this ability?


Edit: Clarity

 

[FutureFACS]

Time for some homework, OP, and you too, bicorne.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18338992
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19335577
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19335578
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17430283

Thanks, Goro. I originally intended the thread to just be a casual discussion (it really blew up!). I really appreciate the information !

 

[boltedbicorne]

They teach you how to take and H and P and perform a physical exam. The basic empathy, interpersonal skills, and communication skills are things you develop from the time you start communicating with others as a child, and are unlikely to be modified much at all by medical school.

Edit- (see underlined above) which is another great thing about MMIs, you don't need to prepare at all. No rehearsing of 5 minute monologues about "why medicine" or practicing how to talk about yourself in a way that makes you sound awesome, yet modest. We just want to see what you are like when you are being yourself, conversing with a peer.

you're foolish. anything can be improved through repeated exposure and practice. same goes for you @Mad Jack and the other dude.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

you're foolish. anything can be improved through repeated exposure and practice. same goes for you @Mad Jack and the other dude.

 

[cs24]

oh rly if you believe MMIs are that valid what's your backup? an astrology table?

you're foolish. anything can be improved through repeated exposure and practice. same goes for you @Mad Jack and the other dude.

 

[Aerus]

you're foolish. anything can be improved through repeated exposure and practice. same goes for you @Mad Jack and the other dude.

Yes, but it's definitely not as simple as taking a class. If you don't have these skills going in, it's unlikely you will develop them in the time you go through medical school. These skills can take years to develop and that's only if you are earnest in your practice. Medical school isn't likely to be a place that will allow time and resources to develop interpersonal skills if you already severely lack these.

 

[KnuxNole]

you're foolish. anything can be improved through repeated exposure and practice. same goes for you @Mad Jack and the other dude.

It can be improved, with TONS of years of improvement and self reflection. After all, if you have highly negative qualities of not being able to express emotion and connect with all groups of people, not being empathetic or know how to express compassion it's something you need exposure to. Something that medical school can do NOTHING to help those poor little saps. They need tons of human contact exposure, and loads of self awareness and understanding other people and to make up for the 20+ years they are lagging behind...

 

[Anicetus]

MMIs are fun. Don't listen to the haters. If you have an open mind and a witty one at that, you will rock MMIs. If you are afraid of awkward situations and connecting with someone quickly, then you won't like it.