ARGH! Mcat Princeton Review Diagnostic score!!!

[VUMD2be]

Dammit!
I just got my tpr diagnostic score back.
24.
****e.
Please tell me you know people that have pulled a 8-10 pt. turnaround on this crap.
I hadn't studied previously, had poor sleep, etc. etc.
please tell me your experiences with these diagnostics.

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[Nutmeg]

I have heard very mixed stories about study time. One of my teachers studied for six months continuously and got a 42 back when verbal was only out of 13. My MCAT teacher studied for two weeks and got a 34. My other teacher studied for 3 weeks and got a 35. From the people I've talked to, if you're a strong test taker with a strong GPA (3.9+ -- good undergrad prep in prereqs), then 2-3 months is all but a guarantee for 35+.

I don't understand why so many on this thread think "studying your butt off" is necessary if you've already absorbed all the info in the prereqs. The main challenge is probly getting accustomed to the test format and reviewing the details of what you've learned.

Indeed. I didn't really say that I studied my butt off, because I didn't. I only studied two days for the MCAT and I got a 40T. This is because I instead just studied my butt off in the prereq classes. I honestly think that the prep courses would have been a complete waste for me, and I couldn't dream of paying some jackass more than a grand to teach me crap that I had already devoted 20-something semester units to learning in my university coursework. And I decided to blow off the fact that I bombed the Kaplan free test, and assumed they were just messing with my head.

 

[ExplodingBoy]

For those that have taken both Princeton Review tests 4911 and 4921, what have you scored on each? And how far apart were the tests administered to you? Thanks!!!

same as the moose, 1 month apart:

4911: 9B/8V/7P
4921: 8B/9V/9P

the drop in bio really freaked me out, but it came back up by the next one.

 

[juniper456]

4911: 6p/6b/7v
4921: 6p/8b/7v

 

[Rupert Pumpkin]

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[MoosePilot]

I find this very surprising. You scored the same on the Princeton 4921 test as on the real thing? A lot of people are saying the AAMC tests are far easier than Princeton. What is your opinion?

Huh?

April '94 MCAT 9B/10P/12V

Feb '04 4921 10B/9P/12V

I never noticed the two were so similar, actually. I wouldn't try to draw conclusions. I had almost a 10 year gap between the two, with 8 years of it devoted to military and aviation, not academics. That is enough to skew the results slightly, I think.

What I'm proud of was April '04. I scored 5 points higher on that one. Again, don't draw conclusions on the relative difficulty of 4921 and the real thing, because I had 2 solid months of preparation between the two.

 

[gujuDoc]

rrshah2,

Don't presume to think that the TPR tests are anything like the real MCAT. I have taken the real deal once in my life and I will tell you it was nothing like the TPR tests. On my particular form there was no math involved, just concepts and there was a lot more genetics and physiology than on 4921. Also the passages weren't as in depth as todays. In other words it was possible to finish on time without having to guess for several answers. However, when I took 4921, I felt like I wasn't even able to finish in time.

 

[DHMO]

Yeah, I got a 24 on the first diag. Then I didn't study the material and only went to a few of the classes. The only thing I did do was take all of the practice tests, and I ended up with a 33 on the real one. Like other people have said, they are just trying to scare you with the first one.

 

[MoosePilot]

Yeah, I got a 24 on the first diag. Then I didn't study the material and only went to a few of the classes. The only thing I did do was take all of the practice tests, and I ended up with a 33 on the real one. Like other people have said, they are just trying to scare you with the first one.

See, I didn't think so at all. I got the lowest on the first one, but my score gradually went up as I studied. That's what I would have expected. I don't think it was significantly harder than any of the others, although I would definitely concede that it's slightly harder.

 

[Shrike]

OK, most people have gotten over diag 1 by this point, but I thought I'd add actual data of a sort that few students will see, because they take this diafgnostic test at the beginning of the process only. I just scored one that I took for fun while I proctored this test a couple weeks ago (I had never bothered to take this one before), and scored 3 points lower than my actual MCAT score from August. Based on this, and a lot of hearsay, I believe that first diag is systematically 2-6 points low (I think it would have a larger effect on someone who was truly unprepared, unlike me) relative to an actual MCAT.

Let this information filter into the general consciousness, and maybe next go-round a few fewer people will be completely freaked out.

Shrike
TPR physics, verbal, bio

 

[gujuDoc]

OK, most people have gotten over diag 1 by this point, but I thought I'd add actual data of a sort that few students will see, because they take this diafgnostic test at the beginning of the process only. I just scored one that I took for fun while I proctored this test a couple weeks ago (I had never bothered to take this one before), and scored 3 points lower than my actual MCAT score from August. Based on this, and a lot of hearsay, I believe that first diag is systematically 2-6 points low (I think it would have a larger effect on someone who was truly unprepared, unlike me) relative to an actual MCAT.

Let this information filter into the general consciousness, and maybe next go-round a few fewer people will be completely freaked out.

Shrike
TPR physics, verbal, bio

You are stating your conclusions on only your own experience.

At my test center I have known peoplen that went from 12-14 points higher than their first diag. I went up by 8 pts from my original diag. Also, I even knew someone whom went up by 19 pts believe it or not. So I think it really is what you put in it with learning the testing style as well as how the others do compared to you on the real thing.

Most of the people in my class did anywhere from 7-14 points higher than the first diag, and on avg most did at least the 10-12 pts.

My first diag was no way reflective of my real MCAT score, or within that range that you gave. However, it was very consistent with what I got on 3R and 4R within a 2-5 point range of what I got on 5R 6R and test 7.

 

[MoosePilot]

You are stating your conclusions on only your own experience.

At my test center I have known peoplen that went from 12-14 points higher than their first diag. I went up by 8 pts from my original diag. Also, I even knew someone whom went up by 19 pts believe it or not. So I think it really is what you put in it with learning the testing style as well as how the others do compared to you on the real thing.

Most of the people in my class did anywhere from 7-14 points higher than the first diag, and on avg most did at least the 10-12 pts.

My first diag was no way reflective of my real MCAT score, or within that range that you gave. However, it was very consistent with what I got on 3R and 4R within a 2-5 point range of what I got on 5R 6R and test 7.

Sure, you're right. But I don't think you're understanding what Shrike is saying.

Final MCAT - 4911 when taken unprepared (beginning of TPR) = large number
Final MCAT - 4911 when taken as totally prepared as final MCAT = 2-3 points

The second measure is merely attempting to show that 4911 is more difficult than the real thing, but not vastly. It just seems that way since it's difficult and you take it when you're least prepared.

 

[gujuDoc]

Sure, you're right. But I don't think you're understanding what Shrike is saying.

Final MCAT - 4911 when taken unprepared (beginning of TPR) = large number
Final MCAT - 4911 when taken as totally prepared as final MCAT = 2-3 points

The second measure is merely attempting to show that 4911 is more difficult than the real thing, but not vastly. It just seems that way since it's difficult and you take it when you're least prepared.

Well what Shrike is misunderstanding and you too, is that most people don't take 4911 totally prepared. So there is a large difference. In fact, most people haven't even started studying at the point that they have taken 4911. So there is really no way to use that as a 2-3 point measure, since most don't use that as a diag that they have taken upon studying. They take it BEFORE studying for the MCAT and doing workbooks, etc. So in retrospect, yes there is a much greater difference. If anything I agree with Prowler and others whom have said that the best indicators of your real test come from how you do on the AAMC tests.

Also, I disagree that the TPR tests are anything like the real MCAT. Having taken it once, I can tell you that my real MCAT was not anything like TPR's test but very much like the aamc tests. For instance, my physical sciences was purely conceptual. Not one related math problem. The biological was totally different too, in that it had a lot more concentration on genetics than on biochemistry and stuff. Type of questions were very different from TPR's first diag questions.

So you know what, I totally don't see the point in using the first diagnostic, one which most people take before any preparation, as a way to compare how you do on your real exam.

Why are you sooooooo keen on trying to get on people about how you think they are going to do on the MCAT. What is it to you if people have a high MCAT goal in mind???? It doesn't really affect what you do with your own life, so I don't see why you keep trying to debate this matter. Let each person think what they think and do what they need to do rather than keeping on trying to put everyone down with your views of the MCAT and standardized testing.

 

[gujuDoc]

Well what Shrike is misunderstanding and you too, is that most people don't take 4911 totally prepared. So there is a large difference. In fact, most people haven't even started studying at the point that they have taken 4911. So there is really no way to use that as a 2-3 point measure, since most don't use that as a diag that they have taken upon studying. They take it BEFORE studying for the MCAT and doing workbooks, etc. So in retrospect, yes there is a much greater difference. If anything I agree with Prowler and others whom have said that the best indicators of your real test come from how you do on the AAMC tests.

Also, I disagree that the TPR tests are anything like the real MCAT. Having taken it once, I can tell you that my real MCAT was not anything like TPR's test but very much like the aamc tests. For instance, my physical sciences was purely conceptual. Not one related math problem. The biological was totally different too, in that it had a lot more concentration on genetics than on biochemistry and stuff. Type of questions were very different from TPR's first diag questions.

So you know what, I totally don't see the point in using the first diagnostic, one which most people take before any preparation, as a way to compare how you do on your real exam.

Why are you sooooooo keen on trying to get on people about how you think they are going to do on the MCAT. What is it to you if people have a high MCAT goal in mind???? It doesn't really affect what you do with your own life, so I don't see why you keep trying to debate this matter. Let each person think what they think and do what they need to do rather than keeping on trying to put everyone down with your views of the MCAT and standardized testing.

I would also like to add one more thing to my above quoted post.

Most people don't give a care to retake their first diagnostic. That is just to see how much work they need to put in from that point forward. So using correlations of how one does on their first test after studying is quite pointless. Secondly, I disagree with the level of difficulty of the TPR tests being same level of the real MCAT. I don't know if you have taken TPR's test A-D but they are far far more difficult than the real test as are most TPR tests. In fact, one friend who did test A, and took the real MCAT told me she got 12's on the sciences of the real MCAT as well AAMC tests but was not able to get nearly that high on the TPR tests.

Same has been said by others and those who run the test centers in the past. So don't make irrelevant correlations.

 

[MoosePilot]

Well what Shrike is misunderstanding and you too, is that most people don't take 4911 totally prepared. So there is a large difference. In fact, most people haven't even started studying at the point that they have taken 4911. So there is really no way to use that as a 2-3 point measure, since most don't use that as a diag that they have taken upon studying. They take it BEFORE studying for the MCAT and doing workbooks, etc. So in retrospect, yes there is a much greater difference. If anything I agree with Prowler and others whom have said that the best indicators of your real test come from how you do on the AAMC tests.

Also, I disagree that the TPR tests are anything like the real MCAT. Having taken it once, I can tell you that my real MCAT was not anything like TPR's test but very much like the aamc tests. For instance, my physical sciences was purely conceptual. Not one related math problem. The biological was totally different too, in that it had a lot more concentration on genetics than on biochemistry and stuff. Type of questions were very different from TPR's first diag questions.

So you know what, I totally don't see the point in using the first diagnostic, one which most people take before any preparation, as a way to compare how you do on your real exam.

Why are you sooooooo keen on trying to get on people about how you think they are going to do on the MCAT. What is it to you if people have a high MCAT goal in mind???? It doesn't really affect what you do with your own life, so I don't see why you keep trying to debate this matter. Let each person think what they think and do what they need to do rather than keeping on trying to put everyone down with your views of the MCAT and standardized testing.

Shrike and I aren't misunderstanding anything. We're saying something different than you are. I fully understand what you're saying. Most people *do* take 4911 unprepared. Once they're prepared, they should notice a big score jump. I noticed a nice 10-ish point jump myself and I was already very comfortable with the MCAT, just horribly rusty on the sciences.

What that doesn't mean and a lot of people think it does is that 4911 is much harder than the actual thing. I agree that it's different, but it's not that much harder. I think if you didn't take 4911 until the last weekend before you took the real MCAT, your 4911 score would be much closer to your real MCAT score. Is that realistic? No. The only point is that 4911 isn't that much harder than the real thing, it's just usually taken at the least prepared time.

As for why I keep arguing this point - I'm tired of people saying "I haven't taken the MCAT, but if I assume I get a 35, what are my chances of getting into Harvard?" That's even stupider than most threads of that type. If you're going to assume, you need to assume average performance in the absence of evidence to expect otherwise.

 

[MoosePilot]

Same has been said by others and those who run the test centers in the past. So don't make irrelevant correlations.

Give a name and a test center. Otherwise don't cite someone as a resource by using the form "So did lots of people, so you're wrong."

 

[Shrike]

Thank y'all for having so much fun arguing about what I was saying, or trying to say. In short: Moose, you're right. Guju, you're wrong.

My point, my only point, was that 4911 is harder than an actual MCAT, in my estimation by a few points. My assertion is actually not based on "only [my] own experience, though that's all I cited. My own experience was the most important part of it, but I cited it only as validation for what I and others had already concluded -- this diagnostic test is hard, but not ridiculously so. Based on what evidence, other than my own experiment which is not often duplicated? Lots of experience with students, not just noticing bad scores (which are largely due to relative lack of preparation) but hearing them talk about their experiences, about what confused them and what didn't, and so on. Validated, too, by what I saw on the test, and my perception, admitedly just mine, of what the score impact would be of the qualitative differences between that test and the MCATs I have seen. But yes, it's predominently my own experience. So?

Yep, it was just me, really, but I thought it might help somebody put a diag 1 score in perspective.

Anyone who took my point to be that great improvement relative to 4911 is not possible, wasn't reading my post carefully (or perhaps was confusing it with a post I made in a different thread). I was trying only to estimate the difference between what someone would get on 4911 today and on an actual AAMC test today. Using, yes indeed, my own experience as the data, because I don't have any other numbers, and neither does anyone else I know of: after all, what other idiot takes 4911 and an actual MCAT at the same level of preparation, as I did? Even when people repeat our course, we give them a different test to start with the second time around. Everyone else does at least some studying (let's hope a lot) between the first test and the real thing, or the first test and 7R, or whatever. I was just trying to take advantage of the fluky fact that I have not done any significant MCAT work between attaining a score on the August 2004 exam and subsequently taking 4911 for the first time, having not bothered to work it before.

For controversy, go ahead and check my other posts. But there shouldn't be any here.

Shrike
TPR physics, verbal, bio
unofficial, unscientific test difficulty assessor

 

[gujuDoc]

Give a name and a test center. Otherwise don't cite someone as a resource by using the form "So did lots of people, so you're wrong."

Princeton Review

in Tampa, Florida. I'm not sure of the exact zip code. Used to be something like 33617 but they just moved to a slightly closer location to the school.

The former director's name was Lauren Foley.

 

[Rupert Pumpkin]

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[Rupert Pumpkin]

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[run_4ever]

Does anyone else find the "BS" abbreviation for Bio Sci as fitting as I do? I think the Physical Sciences should be abbreviated "PoS."

 

[Kazema]

Heya Moose, how's it going? Been a looong time since I stopped by this forum, just thought I'd stop by to torment the MCAT-ers .

Just to add to what Moose and Shrike are saying (listen to these guys, they know what they're talking about) sticking to the TPR schedule and doing the homework, really analyzing your test performance, and asking questions as soon as you don't understand something are basically the keys to raising your score. I scored a 28 on the diag and raised my score by 12 points - I probably would've gotten a 31 or 32 or so on the real thing without hard-core MCAT-geared studying. I'd finished almost all of the prereqs but the MCAT-specific studying let me soak up exactly what I needed to know for the test. In my opinion the prereqs alone aren't enough unless you approached your classes with an eye to really, really learn the material at a very basic level and not just learn what you needed to learn to get a good grade. Sadly, I think most people do the latter. MCAT studying, more than anything, will give you a fundamental understanding of the material, as well as preparation for specific topics that are common questions.

Expect to see your first substantial score increase on the last TPR diag, the one you take right before you take the AAMC ones. I don't think anyone in my class (or anyone on this board) saw their scores jump until then. And some didn't see a score increase until the AAMCs. Not sure what it is, but it just seems to work out that way.

Make sure you do the homework and study on your own. There were a couple kids in my class who kind of just showed up (sometimes) and rarely did the practice problems. Just attending the class isn't going to cut it; the kids who did that complained loudly that their scores weren't going up but really, how could they be surprised? You're only going to get out what you put in. If you're not using all the materials they give you (with the notable exception of the A-D tests...) you're wasting your $1500. Seriously, I don't know what those kids were thinking.

Also, TREAT EVERY DIAG LIKE THE REAL THING!!! That means going to bed early the night before, eating a good breakfast, showing up early, and COMPLETING EVERY SECTION TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY!!! If you can't handle a diag, the real thing ain't gonna be any easier. If that means sacrificing one night of hanging out with friends, one night of partying, one night of playing video games, whatever, DO IT! The real thing will be stressful enough as it is, and walking into it having never experienced simulated testing conditions will only make it worse.

Now, a great MCAT score isn't a guarantee of admission, but getting a solid score means one less thing to worry about. If I don't get in anywhere this year, I know what areas I have to improve and my MCAT score isn't one of them.

 

[gujuDoc]

Heya Moose, how's it going? Been a looong time since I stopped by this forum, just thought I'd stop by to torment the MCAT-ers .

Just to add to what Moose and Shrike are saying (listen to these guys, they know what they're talking about) sticking to the TPR schedule and doing the homework, really analyzing your test performance, and asking questions as soon as you don't understand something are basically the keys to raising your score. I scored a 28 on the diag and raised my score by 12 points - I probably would've gotten a 31 or 32 or so on the real thing without hard-core MCAT-geared studying. I'd finished almost all of the prereqs but the MCAT-specific studying let me soak up exactly what I needed to know for the test. In my opinion the prereqs alone aren't enough unless you approached your classes with an eye to really, really learn the material at a very basic level and not just learn what you needed to learn to get a good grade. Sadly, I think most people do the latter. MCAT studying, more than anything, will give you a fundamental understanding of the material, as well as preparation for specific topics that are common questions.

Expect to see your first substantial score increase on the last TPR diag, the one you take right before you take the AAMC ones. I don't think anyone in my class (or anyone on this board) saw their scores jump until then. And some didn't see a score increase until the AAMCs. Not sure what it is, but it just seems to work out that way.

Make sure you do the homework and study on your own. There were a couple kids in my class who kind of just showed up (sometimes) and rarely did the practice problems. Just attending the class isn't going to cut it; the kids who did that complained loudly that their scores weren't going up but really, how could they be surprised? You're only going to get out what you put in. If you're not using all the materials they give you (with the notable exception of the A-D tests...) you're wasting your $1500. Seriously, I don't know what those kids were thinking.

Also, TREAT EVERY DIAG LIKE THE REAL THING!!! That means going to bed early the night before, eating a good breakfast, showing up early, and COMPLETING EVERY SECTION TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY!!! If you can't handle a diag, the real thing ain't gonna be any easier. If that means sacrificing one night of hanging out with friends, one night of partying, one night of playing video games, whatever, DO IT! The real thing will be stressful enough as it is, and walking into it having never experienced simulated testing conditions will only make it worse.

Now, a great MCAT score isn't a guarantee of admission, but getting a solid score means one less thing to worry about. If I don't get in anywhere this year, I know what areas I have to improve and my MCAT score isn't one of them.

Hey getting off topic, but did anyone read the article about the future of the MCAT being totally computer based by 2007 and thus slightly shorter time wise to take the test??? There was an article sent to me in my email about it.

Here's the link

http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/feb05/mcat.htm