Arizona State replaces pharmacy with vending machine

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Arizona's board of pharmacy needs to stop this
 
Cool. Automation makes being a pharmacist so much easier.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
I wonder who is responsible for the machine? Who is in charge of refilling the medication? Are prescriptions remotely verified, or is it done automatically by the machine? If so, what happens if something potentially life-threatening isn't caught? Seems like a lot of liability unless there is involved oversight.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I'll be shocked if the chains aren't trying to make this ubiquitous... Why pay the pharmacist $100k/year when you can pay the vending machine repair guy $40k/year?? No more pesky counselling or anyone to bother you when you're in a hurry to pick up your meds. Tis the beginning of the end...
 
pharmnrp804 said:
I'll be shocked if the chains aren't trying to make this ubiquitous... Why pay the pharmacist $100k/year when you can pay the vending machine repair guy $40k/year?? No more pesky counselling or anyone to bother you when you're in a hurry to pick up your meds. Tis the beginning of the end...
Click to expand...

Except you'd need to change multiple laws x 50 states = expensive/not practical.

Everything's already remotely dispensed (save our IV's) in the hospital and if anything our staffing needs are up and RPh service/demand within the institution has risen. Go figure.
 
Those vending machines only stock a limited number of medications in standardized amounts. You can't get refrigerated or liquids from them.
 
pharmnrp804 said:
I'll be shocked if the chains aren't trying to make this ubiquitous... Why pay the pharmacist $100k/year when you can pay the vending machine repair guy $40k/year?? No more pesky counselling or anyone to bother you when you're in a hurry to pick up your meds. Tis the beginning of the end...
Click to expand...
401(k), health benefit, vacation pay etc...
 
confettiflyer said:
Except you'd need to change multiple laws x 50 states = expensive/not practical.

Everything's already remotely dispensed (save our IV's) in the hospital and if anything our staffing needs are up and RPh service/demand within the institution has risen. Go figure.
Click to expand...

pharmnrp804 said:
I'll be shocked if the chains aren't trying to make this ubiquitous... Why pay the pharmacist $100k/year when you can pay the vending machine repair guy $40k/year?? No more pesky counselling or anyone to bother you when you're in a hurry to pick up your meds. Tis the beginning of the end...
Click to expand...


agreed... they have more than enough money to lobby to change the laws...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Pain medicines in a vending machine? Surely they aren't talking about control's?
 
uh oh... :)

if this is not a sign for what is/are coming next, I don't know what is.... just like Redbox was taking out the old Blockbuster (and they didn't even know what were hitting them)...


the bottom line is pharmacy is going be doomed for new pharmacy grads b/c:

-school expansion madness = oversupply

-reduction/elimination pharmacist jobs by big businesses (chains, hospitals, etc) enabled by technology to cut down costs = low demand

what will happen when supply is outstripping demand ?? you can answer this for yourself...


I seriously think that if pharmacists (old and new) want a future, they have to unionize... that is the only way to survive !!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
oldstock said:
all I can say is, "uh oh"...

if this is not a sign for what is/are coming next, I don't know what is.... just like Redbox was taking out the old Blockbuster (and they didn't even know what were hitting them)...
Click to expand...

Pharmacy schools should REALLY start implementing computer programming/informatics courses into their didactic curriculum as opposed to the horsesh*t clinical fluff classes that lecture the students on the use of a stethoscope, blood pressure cuff, yada yada. As pharmacy becomes more technologically advanced, so should the student's education. Another suggestion is to even have mandatory language courses in Chinese and/or Spanish in lieu of the clinical-y "tools" that's never going to be used by a retail pharmacist. Informatics and 2nd language are one semester electives in schools - why not have them incorporated into the P1/P2 curriculum instead? These skills have a lot more utility to the real world and will help the graduating pharmacist become marketable.

The school's most likely answer to this proposal: oh, let's expand the PharmD education for another few years to incorporate these changes instead of efficiently adapting to the profession's rapid change. And let's increase tuition by another 10% at an annual rate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
PharmDCandidate2014 said:
Pharmacy schools should REALLY start implementing computer programming/informatics courses into their didactic curriculum as opposed to the horsesh*t clinical fluff classes that lecture the students on the use of a stethoscope, blood pressure cuff, yada yada. As pharmacy becomes more technologically advanced, so should the student's education. Another suggestion is to even have mandatory language courses in Chinese and/or Spanish in lieu of the clinical-y "tools" that's never going to be used by a retail pharmacist. Informatics and 2nd language are one semester electives in schools - why not have them incorporated into the P1/P2 curriculum instead? These skills have a lot more utility to the real world and will help the graduating pharmacist become marketable.

The school's most likely answer to this proposal: oh, let's expand the PharmD education for another few years to incorporate these changes instead of efficiently adapting to the profession's rapid change. And let's increase tuition by another 10% at an annual rate.
Click to expand...

lol :)

soon you will hear about PGY-10.... (sad... scared... running away.....)
 
PharmDCandidate2014 said:
Pharmacy schools should REALLY start implementing computer programming/informatics courses into their didactic curriculum as opposed to the horsesh*t clinical fluff classes that lecture the students on the use of a stethoscope, blood pressure cuff, yada yada. As pharmacy becomes more technologically advanced, so should the student's education. Another suggestion is to even have mandatory language courses in Chinese and/or Spanish in lieu of the clinical-y "tools" that's never going to be used by a retail pharmacist. Informatics and 2nd language are one semester electives in schools - why not have them incorporated into the P1/P2 curriculum instead? These skills have a lot more utility to the real world and will help the graduating pharmacist become marketable.

The school's most likely answer to this proposal: oh, let's expand the PharmD education for another few years to incorporate these changes instead of efficiently adapting to the profession's rapid change. And let's increase tuition by another 10% at an annual rate.
Click to expand...

Also, pharmacy schools will start pushing informatics with promises of tremendous job growth, being cutting edge and innovative, and being part of the "future of pharmacy" like they have done with clinical pharmacy, MTM, pharmaceutical care, and provider status in order to get more students to hand them $150k. Informatics positions are mostly temporary and few and far between; we definitely wouldn't need 15,000 new informaticists every year, just as how only a fraction of them end up in clinical roles.

I do agree though that second languages should be taught in pharmacy school as an elective. It would also be great if pharmacy schools can teach us how to use software systems that are frequently used in chain retail stores and hospitals. Many of these computer systems seem to have a steep learning curve.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
This is an incredibly slippery slope and it is an infringement upon our profession. The campus of ASU is not some desolate location where there are no other alternatives for students to pick up their medications........as a poster noted above, apparently there is already a WALMART Pharmacy ON CAMPUS and that store can provide students access to prescription drugs. The AZ pharmacists association should be fighting this tooth and nail.....

Vending machines, telepharmacy should be reserved for very limited, very specific demographic indicators...Rural hospitals with no outpatient pharmacy in the county, etc.

It would be great to see this GREED driven decision to place a vending machine on ASU's campus that was done under the guise of " patient accessibility" come to a screeching halt as it is repeatedly the target of vandalism and service calls.........
 
BF7 said:
This is an incredibly slippery slope and it is an infringement upon our profession. The campus of ASU is not some desolate location where there are no other alternatives for students to pick up their medications........as a poster noted above, apparently there is already a WALMART Pharmacy ON CAMPUS and that store can provide students access to prescription drugs. The AZ pharmacists association should be fighting this tooth and nail.....

Vending machines, telepharmacy should be reserved for very limited, very specific demographic indicators...Rural hospitals with no outpatient pharmacy in the county, etc.

It would be great to see this GREED driven decision to place a vending machine on ASU's campus that was done under the guise of " patient accessibility" come to a screeching halt as it is repeatedly the target of vandalism and service calls.........
Click to expand...
Not so much infringement as just simple advancement. Just because something threatens your job does not necessarily make it wrong. This sort of thing is kind of inevitable no? Much like whoever mentioned the extinction of gas pumpers, pharmacy has become obsolete in CERTAIN aspects. I would like to try out this machine rather than wait for my birth control pills, etc but that is just me.I sound like a sell-out, but I agree. Those who are passionate about this profession should be fighting with their all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
rederza said:
Not so much infringement as just simple advancement. Just because something threatens your job does not necessarily make it wrong. This sort of thing is kind of inevitable no? Much like whoever mentioned the extinction of gas pumpers, pharmacy has become obsolete in CERTAIN aspects. I would like to try out this machine rather than wait for my birth control pills, etc but that is just me.I sound like a sell-out, but I agree. Those who are passionate about this profession should be fighting with their all.
Click to expand...

Does selecting 87 instead of 93 lead directly to a person's DEATH? very poor analogy. This isn't an advancement of pharmacy practice; it's an advancement of GREED.


How does this computer run a DUR? Does it rely on patients to be aware of what they take, dose etc. and are competent enough to data enter that important piece of information themselves into the machine? Does it rely strictly on that info to release a prescription med? 800mg of IBU..NO PROBLEMO mr. diabetic!
 
Who is making a profit off what is sold in the vending machine? Isn't it illegal in pretty much any state for a doctor to sell drugs for profit (conflict of interest?) It would seem that the vending machine could only exist legally because its considered direct physician dispensing, in which case, nobody should be making a profit on anything sold out of it.
 
BF7 said:
Does selecting 87 instead of 93 lead directly to a person's DEATH? very poor analogy. This isn't an advancement of pharmacy practice; it's an advancement of GREED.


How does this computer run a DUR? Does it rely on patients to be aware of what they take, dose etc. and are competent enough to data enter that important piece of information themselves into the machine? Does it rely strictly on that info to release a prescription med? 800mg of IBU..NO PROBLEMO mr. diabetic!
Click to expand...

Technically you could argue that the whole ****storm of oversaturation etc etc is due to greed as well...so already the ball is in motion and there's not much to stop it. Did I make that analogy? Funny how the only people complaining about this are pharmacy people worried about losing their jobs. Maybe if they offered some more useful skill they wouldn't have to worry about being so easily replaced. In one of those links the customer seemed really pleased with this...and overall it's what the majority wants. Until something awful happens, I don't see this machine being pulled any time soon. Greed, yes, is bad, but when this is what pharmacy has become you can't be surprised. Again, unfortunately until some death or severe complications occur, you don't really have any argument to pull these things out.

edit; yeah it cant counsel but you could call the pharmacists right? not that it bothers me, ive never had any pharmacist offer couseling anyways.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
BF7 said:
This is an incredibly slippery slope and it is an infringement upon our profession. The campus of ASU is not some desolate location where there are no other alternatives for students to pick up their medications........as a poster noted above, apparently there is already a WALMART Pharmacy ON CAMPUS and that store can provide students access to prescription drugs. AZ pharmacists association should be fighting this tooth and nail.....

Vending machines, telepharmacy should be reserved for very limited, very specific demographic indicators...Rural hospitals with no outpatient pharmacy in the county, etc.

It would be great to see this GREED driven decision to place a vending machine on ASU's campus that was done under the guise of " patient accessibility" come to a screeching halt as it is repeatedly the target of vandalism and service calls.........
Click to expand...

BidingMyTime said:
Who is making a profit off what is sold in the vending machine? Isn't it illegal in pretty much any state for a doctor to sell drugs for profit (conflict of interest?) It would seem that the vending machine could only exist legally because its considered direct physician dispensing, in which case, nobody should be making a profit on anything sold out of it.
Click to expand...

Like @BF7 said above, AZ Pharmacist Association and all other state/national pharmacist associations should stand up and at least say something. The fact that we have not heard anything from them regarding that matter = SAD. But again, it is no surprise to me as this is prob the same thing with the "many schools opening" problem, "sorry no we can't do anything" :)

I agree w @rederza : soon or later technologies will enable these things and more... expect something similar coming to hospitals very soon too... this is just inevitable...
 
The self checkout machines in my nearby grocery stores are out of order all the time. Quite often, when I do something simple such as scanning a coupon, the machine would lock up and require a cashier override. I cannot imagine pharmacy vending machines being used on a large scale.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
rederza said:
edit; yeah it cant counsel but you could call the pharmacists right? not that it bothers me, ive never had any pharmacist offer couseling anyways.
Click to expand...

Seriously? You know its federal law that all patients must be offered counseling each and anytime they pick up a prescription (some states require counseling for new prescriptions.) You know, when the technician ringing you out asks if you have any questions, that is the counseling offer, that is when if you say yes, they go and get the pharmacist to talk with you? (nobody phrases it as "would you like our pharmacist to counsel you on your medication?" because 98% of people would go "huh?")
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
rederza said:
Technically you could argue that the whole ****storm of oversaturation etc etc is due to greed as well...so already the ball is in motion and there's not much to stop it. Did I make that analogy? Funny how the only people complaining about this are pharmacy people worried about losing their jobs. Maybe if they offered some more useful skill they wouldn't have to worry about being so easily replaced. In one of those links the customer seemed really pleased with this...and overall it's what the majority wants. Until something awful happens, I don't see this machine being pulled any time soon. Greed, yes, is bad, but when this is what pharmacy has become you can't be surprised. Again, unfortunately until some death or severe complications occur, you don't really have any argument to pull these things out.

edit; yeah it cant counsel but you could call the pharmacists right? not that it bothers me, ive never had any pharmacist offer couseling anyways.
Click to expand...

Your take is unrefined and devoid of a truthful understanding of the value that pharmacists bring. Why have family physicians? Why not just have guys who write code responsible for diagnosing conditions via computer algorithms? You know, That same guy who is apparently now verifying the safety of prescription medication coming out of a vending machine.

Why do patients need to go wait in a doctors office for 45 mins to get a zpak and some bromfed DM? Wouldn't they prefer to walk into a pharmacy and 10 mins later they are handed those 2 products that will inevitably be written for by the physician whose office they just spent 1 hour waiting in and had to pay an office visit copay and now they have to drive over to the pharmacy to pick up their meds. I mean it's more convenient so obviously patients would " seem really pleased" to bypass the time and money spent at a physcians office right?

And why do I need to get a permit to remodel my commercial property? Why do I need and architect and MEP to draw up plans in order to get that permit? I know what I want done. I'd be "really pleased" if I could just bypass those money and time consuming barriers to eternal happiness...
 
BidingMyTime said:
Seriously? You know its federal law that all patients must be offered counseling each and anytime they pick up a prescription (some states require counseling for new prescriptions.) You know, when the technician ringing you out asks if you have any questions, that is the counseling offer, that is when if you say yes, they go and get the pharmacist to talk with you? (nobody phrases it as "would you like our pharmacist to counsel you on your medication?" because 98% of people would go "huh?")
Click to expand...

I know its the law. Doesn't mean people actually do it. I mean obviously if I or anyone else has questions theyre gonna ask regardless of whether you offer it or not. But I'm just saying I know they don't offer it because all 3 pharmacist ive worked with tell people to decline counseling. (without offering it---as in, during check out they tell pts to just hit the button "decline counseling" Also I can't remember if the techs Ive worked with ask it that way, but I know the last time I went to pick up a new antibiotic no one asked me anything.

dont take this to mean i wont follow the law just because no one else is doing it. Im just saying this through simple observation.
 
BF7 said:
Your take is unrefined and devoid of a truthful understanding of the value that pharmacists bring. Why have family physicians? Why not just have guys who write code responsible for diagnosing conditions via computer algorithms? You know, That same guy who is apparently now verifying the safety of prescription medication coming out of a vending machine.

Why do patients need to go wait in a doctors office for 45 mins to get a zpak and some bromfed DM? Wouldn't they prefer to walk into a pharmacy and 10 mins later they are handed those 2 products that will inevitably be written for by the physician whose office they just spent 1 hour waiting in and had to pay an office visit copay and now they have to drive over to the pharmacy to pick up their meds. I mean it's more convenient so obviously patients would " seem really pleased" to bypass the time and money spent at a physcians office right?

And why do I need to get a permit to remodel my commercial property? Why do I need and architect and MEP to draw up plans in order to get that permit? I know what I want done. I'd be "really pleased" if I could just bypass those money and time consuming barriers to eternal happiness...
Click to expand...

I am really wanting to hear all these arguments from AZ Pharmacist Association or APhA or National Community Pharmacist Association or State Boards of Pharmacy or something... so far silence... interesting :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
87asu said:
That's a weird policy, as at my pharmacy we are told to always hit the accept button and call over the pharmacist on any new Rx. The patient may only decline council to a tech for a refill, and if they've had the med before but its on a new Rx they must decline directly to the pharmacist.
Click to expand...

This, my techs are not allowed to ask do you have any questions (unless its a refill), they are only to ask if they had it before, if not they call me over and I go over the meds with them, unless the patient absloutely refuse it even when I walk over
 
BidingMyTime said:
Seriously? You know its federal law that all patients must be offered counseling each and anytime they pick up a prescription (some states require counseling for new prescriptions.) You know, when the technician ringing you out asks if you have any questions, that is the counseling offer, that is when if you say yes, they go and get the pharmacist to talk with you? (nobody phrases it as "would you like our pharmacist to counsel you on your medication?" because 98% of people would go "huh?")
Click to expand...
You know that federal law only applies to Medicare patients, right?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Nothing new here. Vending machines have been in use for over 10 years. They're basically an extension of physician dispensing. A doctor or nurse can go over the medication with the patient which satisfies any counseling requirements. For routine meds like Z-packs, Medrol dose packs and the like why not a vending machine? If I had a choice between corporate retail pharmacy and a vending machine I'd take the vending machine. I don't think there is much value in going to Wags, CVS or the others to have a rude stressed out clerk hand me a Z-pack while mumbling do you have any questions and would you like to buy a box of stay fresh tampons today they are on sale for $2.99.
 
What is the p&p to keep these machines clean? If it's dispensing antibiotics or antivirals... patient probably has an infection... so the machine is a hot zone for pathogens. Not to mention the phone.
 
I don't see neurologists freaking out about stroke robots.

Get it together, pharmacists. We've been using automation for decades now. Anything that automates the "lick, stick, pour" product aspect of our jobs, the better.
 
BF7 said:
Does selecting 87 instead of 93 lead directly to a person's DEATH? very poor analogy. This isn't an advancement of pharmacy practice; it's an advancement of GREED.


How does this computer run a DUR? Does it rely on patients to be aware of what they take, dose etc. and are competent enough to data enter that important piece of information themselves into the machine? Does it rely strictly on that info to release a prescription med? 800mg of IBU..NO PROBLEMO mr. diabetic!
Click to expand...

You have a pharmacist verify the prescriptions remotely, the patient does not select the medication themselves. If counseling is required, the pharmacist pops up on a computer screen and counsels the patient before dispensing the medication. In these urgent care settings, what does the pharmacist offer in person that cant be offered remotely using telepharmacy? If we can't answer that question, we are doomed.

Edit: typo
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
ExpressMaiL said:
What is the p&p to keep these machines clean? If it's dispensing antibiotics or antivirals... patient probably has an infection... so the machine is a hot zone for pathogens. Not to mention the phone.
Click to expand...

How is that any different than said people signing the electronic pad at their brick and mortar drug store?
 
ExpressMaiL said:
They're not picking up a phone to get a consult from the pharmacist.
Click to expand...

Pay someone minimum wage or better yet just have the receptionist walk over and wipe off the phone. It is still cheaper than paying $120k/yr for a pharmacist.
 
TheDude559 said:
You have a pharmacist verify the prescriptions remotely, the patient does not select the medication themselves. If counseling is required, the pharmacist pops up on a computer screen and counsels the patient before dispensing the medication. In these urgent care settings, what does the pharmacist offer in person that cant be offered remotely using telepharmacy? If we can't answer that question, we are doomed.

Edit: typo
Click to expand...
So a pharmacist is still required to be working and available. ... Hence a pharmacist salary is still being paid. ... And for what? To fill a few common Rxs ( amoxil, IBU, zpak) that probably don't amount to even a few hours of pharmacist salary($60/hr) per day?

I operate 2 telepharmacies from my home store. These telepharmacies can only exist under very strict criteria where the community cannot support a pharmacist salary due to population size among a few other very strict criteria including the fact that these telepharmacy's must be located inside of a medical facility.
Having a dispensing vending machine on a college campus where a walmart is already operating is not an extenuating circumstance that should warrant telepharmacy/vending services. The fact that the AZ board is so lax in that regard to enforcement is an absolute detriment to our profession.

Again.. Why do patients need to see a PA NP or MD/DO at their office during cold and flu season to get ABX or tamiflu and some Bromfed? Technology and tests are available now that would allow patients to see those prescribers via videoconferencing technology. It is currently taking place in rural America. Why don't we have computer stations in every pharmacy with NPs, PAs, MDs on standby ready to diagnose and prescribe to patients for acute conditions via video conferencing technology?

Because the nursing and medical organizations would NEVER support this unless in very small, well defined instances ( no physician office within a certain mile radius etc) the pharmacy organizations are completely impotent and the fact that these vending machines can exist in an area where a walmart pharmacy may be a few miles away is a VERY SLIPPERY slope. What's to stop his company from hiring RPHs who live in INDIA, have them get an AZ license,and then pay them $15/hr to fill Rxs at these vending machines and then put them on the corner of every intersection?

If you aren't willing to stand up for your profession yourself then you can't expect others to RESPECT your profession either.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
BF7 said:
So a pharmacist is still required to be working and available. ... Hence a pharmacist salary is still being paid. ... And for what? To fill a few common Rxs ( amoxil, IBU, zpak) that probably don't amount to even a few hours of pharmacist salary($60/hr) per day?

I operate 2 telepharmacies from my home store. These telepharmacies can only exist under very strict criteria where the community cannot support a pharmacist salary due to population size among a few other very strict criteria including the fact that these telepharmacy's must be located inside of a medical facility.
Having a dispensing vending machine on a college campus where a walmart is already operating is not an extenuating circumstance that should warrant telepharmacy/vending services. The fact that the AZ board is so lax in that regard to enforcement is an absolute detriment to our profession.

Again.. Why do patients need to see a PA NP or MD/DO at their office during cold and flu season to get ABX or tamiflu and some Bromfed? Technology and tests are available now that would allow patients to see those prescribers via videoconferencing technology. It is currently taking place in rural America. Why don't we have computer stations in every pharmacy with NPs, PAs, MDs on standby ready to diagnose and prescribe to patients for acute conditions via video conferencing technology?

Because the nursing and medical organizations would NEVER support this unless in very small, well defined instances ( no physician office within a certain mile radius etc) the pharmacy organizations are completely impotent and the fact that these vending machines can exist in an area where a walmart pharmacy may be a few miles away is a VERY SLIPPERY slope. What's to stop his company from hiring RPHs who live in INDIA, have them get an AZ license,and then pay them $15/hr to fill Rxs at these vending machines and then put them on the corner of every intersection?

If you aren't willing to stand up for your profession yourself then you can't expect others to RESPECT your profession either.
Click to expand...


A pharmacist would verify prescription from multiple machines, thus the reason the cost is only $1500 monthly. The reason acute conditions aren't diagnosed commonly using telemedicine is because the patient gets a more accurate diagnosis from a physical exam. Besides flu shots the benefit from having a pharmacist physically present in this small urgent care setting is not as obvious.
 
zelman said:
You know that federal law only applies to Medicare patients, right?
Click to expand...

My bad, I was confusing state law vs federal law. Hahaha, I haven't had to think about which is which for many years. In IL, counseling is required for everyone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
BF7 said:
The fact that the AZ board is so lax in that regard to enforcement is an absolute detriment to our profession.

...

Because the nursing and medical organizations would NEVER support this unless in very small, well defined instances ( no physician office within a certain mile radius etc) the pharmacy organizations are completely impotent ...

If you aren't willing to stand up for your profession yourself then you can't expect others to RESPECT your profession either.
Click to expand...

that is so true !! Pharmacists need to stop paying dues/memberships to those pharmacy organizations and form a real union !! But again, I do not expect many pharmacists to do anything...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
TheDude559 said:
A pharmacist would verify prescription from multiple machines, thus the reason the cost is only $1500 monthly. The reason acute conditions aren't diagnosed commonly using telemedicine is because the patient gets a more accurate diagnosis from a physical exam. Besides flu shots the benefit from having a pharmacist physically present in this small urgent care setting is not as obvious.
Click to expand...
But is it not also safer ( more thorough) for the patient to utilize the SAME pharmacy to fill all of their medications? (DUR)....Poly pharmacy is dangerous but it happens and when a health care professional speaks to patients in regards to it they almost always recommend going to the same pharmacy if possible because of the risk of DRUG-DRUG interactions. I have a hunch that the majority of physicians who would feed into vending machines such as these would certainly not have as thorough of a drug history for their patient as a single pharmacy would.


But the value in having a single pharmacy serving patients for safety and thoroughness (is that a word?) isn't valued by payers ( insurance companies) nor is it stressed enough to the general public. But it SHOULD be. Pharmacists since the expansion of chains buying out independents in the 1980s have been far too willing for having the face of our profession move from being the local " druggist" to instead a corporate logo. That is SHAMEFUL. Physicians haven't allowed that to occur...YET.
 
TheDude559 said:
A pharmacist would verify prescription from multiple machines, thus the reason the cost is only $1500 monthly. The reason acute conditions aren't diagnosed commonly using telemedicine is because the patient gets a more accurate diagnosis from a physical exam. Besides flu shots the benefit from having a pharmacist physically present in this small urgent care setting is not as obvious.
Click to expand...
$1500 per month + $60/hr x40 hours x 4 weeks. For low margin, MAC'd out generics like amoxicillin, ibuprofen and baclofen....I'd love to see the financials for these kiosks/ vending machines...
 
oldstock said:
that is so true !! Pharmacists need to stop paying dues/memberships to those pharmacy organizations and form a real union !! But again, I do not expect many pharmacists to do anything...
Click to expand...
Forming a union would set us back substantially. Think of the only group of healthcare professionals that unionised... Do we really want to emulate nurses? They're the most militant group I've ever encountered, and we don't need that kind of mindset. Unions are generally reserved for skilled and unskilled labour positions, and pharmacy does not fall in either of those categories. Would physicians form a union? Dentists? Physical therapists? The answer is no. We simply need to strengthen our organisations, and promote a sense of unity. Only then will we be able to move ahead and advance our profession.
 
pharmnrp804 said:
Forming a union would set us back substantially. Think of the only group of healthcare professionals that unionised... Do we really want to emulate nurses? They're the most militant group I've ever encountered, and we don't need that kind of mindset. Unions are generally reserved for skilled and unskilled labour positions, and pharmacy does not fall in either of those categories. Would physicians form a union? Dentists? Physical therapists? The answer is no. We simply need to strengthen our organisations, and promote a sense of unity. Only then will we be able to move ahead and advance our profession.
Click to expand...
Rather than simply suggesting that the post you quoted is completely wrong in terms of the utility of professional organizations, would you like to actually respond to the post with a reason for that assertion?
 
zelman said:
Rather than simply suggesting that the post you quoted is completely wrong in terms of the utility of professional organizations, would you like to actually respond to the post with a reason for that assertion?
Click to expand...
Professional organisations generally look toward the goals of their largest contributors. In the case of pharmacy orgs, this is usually the large chains, which rarely, if ever, have the pharmacists' best interests at heart. However, I believe it is possible to sway the interests back in the favour of the pharmacist, if we are able to somehow assuage the apathy that is so prevalent in this profession. Pharmacists have to believe in themselves and push their talents in order to promote real change, and unfortunately, there are an awful lot of "I'm just here to make $100k counting pills" pharmacists in practice. If the people who physically do the job don't care about it, how can we expect it of anyone else? As for the unions, they are, by nature, designed to protect the weakest links and keep them working. This is fine for minimum wage labour jobs, but that is not pharmacy. Overall, pharmacists are an intelligent group, and we should be able to organise ourselves in such a way to promote our own well being and advance our practice. If we are unable to define our own role and make our own future, we don't deserve to move forward.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
pharmnrp804 said:
Professional organisations generally look toward the goals of their largest contributors. In the case of pharmacy orgs, this is usually the large chains, which rarely, if ever, have the pharmacists' best interests at heart. However, I believe it is possible to sway the interests back in the favour of the pharmacist, if we are able to somehow assuage the apathy that is so prevalent in this profession. Pharmacists have to believe in themselves and push their talents in order to promote real change, and unfortunately, there are an awful lot of "I'm just here to make $100k counting pills" pharmacists in practice. If the people who physically do the job don't care about it, how can we expect it of anyone else? As for the unions, they are, by nature, designed to protect the weakest links and keep them working. This is fine for minimum wage labour jobs, but that is not pharmacy. Overall, pharmacists are an intelligent group, and we should be able to organise ourselves in such a way to promote our own well being and advance our practice. If we are unable to define our own role and make our own future, we don't deserve to move forward.
Click to expand...

The NCPA is the only organization that time in and time out truly supports our profession and promotes us to legislatures and in the media as health care practitioners.....

http://www.ncpanet.org/advocacy/advocacy-center
 
pharmnrp804 said:
Professional organisations generally look toward the goals of their largest contributors. In the case of pharmacy orgs, this is usually the large chains, which rarely, if ever, have the pharmacists' best interests at heart. However, I believe it is possible to sway the interests back in the favour of the pharmacist, if we are able to somehow assuage the apathy that is so prevalent in this profession. Pharmacists have to believe in themselves and push their talents in order to promote real change, and unfortunately, there are an awful lot of "I'm just here to make $100k counting pills" pharmacists in practice. If the people who physically do the job don't care about it, how can we expect it of anyone else?
Click to expand...

Exactly my point: judging by history, how many times we see pharmacists stand up for themselves ??

You are also right about pharmacy organizations that they are basically useless in pushing the interests of pharmacist as they are busy working for schools, chains, hospitals, etc. who are their sugar mama's...

Again I do hope to see pharmacists to stand up and push their interests for themselves. They really need to band together and form some new forces/organizations/unions. Forget about those old organizations. They have never been there for pharmacists and it is easier to build a new house than fixing broken ones.

Do we have any hope? Anyone :)


As for the unions, they are, by nature, designed to protect the weakest links and keep them working. This is fine for minimum wage labour jobs, but that is not pharmacy.
Click to expand...

Most of the weekest links here is going to be the tons of new PharmD grads that schools keep pumping out every year who are inexperienced and without established connections. What are you going to do for them ?? Are we going to see that the already working pharmacists are giving the "who cares" attitude toward new grads ?? What are we going to do about the school expansion madness ??


Overall, pharmacists are an intelligent group, and we should be able to organise ourselves in such a way to promote our own well being and advance our practice. If we are unable to define our own role and make our own future, we don't deserve to move forward.
Click to expand...

Pharmacists definitely need to define/expand new roles. But would those new roles, assumed that they are realized and practical, be able to accomodate tons of new PharmDs ?? Would those new roles be something new entirely or just overlapped of other health professionals' roles or redress old pharmacy roles in some fancy new labels ?? What I mean is that when it comes the time that pharmacy becomes obsolete or mostly replaced by technology, it is going to happen no matter how hard pharmacists are trying... It is always about supply and demand and the free market which will demand the cheapest way to get the jobs done....

Btw, are you British or Canadian ?? :)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

storyhill2
medication vending machines for ED outpatient rx's? Instymeds competitor?
Replies
1
Views
564
storyhill2
storyhill2
P
VA HPSP for Pharmacy 2024
Replies
5
Views
219
bacillus1
bacillus1
Rockinacoustic
2024 USNWR Pharmacy School Rankings
Replies
10
Views
615
projektreverb
P
E
What's The Market Like For A Compounding Pharmacy?
Replies
1
Views
747
RXDOC1986
R
K
  • Locked
Best way to prepare for a future in Pharmacy
Replies
17
Views
1K
Script1992
S
Top