Army Pain doctor investigated for allegedly sexually assaulting 23+ patients

[Baron Samedi]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/26/army-doctor-sex-assault-investigation/

Wow.

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[willabeast]

A very long time ago (previous century) a very credible attractive female related a similar sort of experience ( no need to go into details) to me about a physical exam for a knee problem. The doc who did the exam was a well known PMR MD in my medical group. The patient was an RN and thought there was something odd about the physical exam, but was asking me what I thought about it. I said it was not how I would do a knee exam. Left it at that. Here is the thing. Always have a chaperone. Like wearing a seat belt. Should be automatic. Anyone can say anything. Your career is on the line.

 

[specepic]

Article would benefit from more details. The one case that they cite does not sound clearly problematic. If anything it sounds like he was being thorough. Not unreasonable to check the saddle area although certainly you have to warn the patient you are about to do it and exactly why. Perhaps he is guilty of having a poor bedside manner and doing extensive physical exams without explaining himself. More information needed

 

[Agast]

I wonder if the response from the army is different because this is a male accusing the male doctor of groping him. In this instance there has only been one accuser thus far, it seems for female victims it takes a few to make them take action.

 

[Baron Samedi]

I wonder if the response from the army is different because this is a male accusing the male doctor of groping him. In this instance there has only been one accuser thus far, it seems for female victims it takes a few to make them take action.

I read it as there were 23 total but only 1 interviewed by WaPo.

 

[Agast]

I read it as there were 23 total but only 1 interviewed by WaPo.

Ah, you’re right

 

[MitchLevi]

My program director intern yr. Made virtually every ED pt get a DRE. He was an openly gay man, very catty. Wouldn't say flamboyant per se, but extremely catty.

We did rectal exams when it was clearly inappropriate.

Young woman in the ED with a panic attack. Young male in the ED with fever. Total BS.

 

[bedrock]

My program director intern yr. Made virtually every ED pt get a DRE. He was an openly gay man, very catty. Wouldn't say flamboyant per se, but extremely catty.

We did rectal exams when it was clearly inappropriate.

Young woman in the ED with a panic attack. Young male in the ED with fever. Total BS.

Wow. Completely in appropriate.

 

[SSdoc33]

ive been around at least 2 docs that have been involved in litigation for inappropriate exams.

basically sticking fingers in places they should not be.

both were incredibly socially awkward

 

[MitchLevi]

Wow. Completely in appropriate.

It's weird af.

When we sat down the run the list, you better have a good reason why you didn't do it.

 

[MitchLevi]

ive been around at least 2 docs that have been involved in litigation for inappropriate exams.

basically sticking fingers in places they should not be.

both were incredibly socially awkward

Not sure if you watched the documentary on Larry Nassar.

If you haven't, you prob should.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Ah, you’re right

But your point, in general, seems valid. There was a Neurologist at Ft. Gordon (easily google-able for those interested) who was accused of groping by 11 women. The reports are that he was doing such egregious things as fondling their breasts during a clinic encounter for migraines. The only one that he was actually tried for and found guilty was a Senior Officer while the junior enlisted personnels' cases never even went to trial.

Guy got just 18 months at Ft. Leavenworth Disciplinary Barracks and dismissed from the Army.

 

[SSdoc33]

Not sure if you watched the documentary on Larry Nassar.

If you haven't, you prob should.

when i found out about the lawsuits vs. these guys, i wasnt all that shocked.

its very disappointing that sexual abuse is so prevalent. id actually argue it is probably more prevalent internationally than domestically.

these cases are hard to hear, but im glad they are getting air time

i havent seen the Nasser doc, but im aware of it

 

[RoloTomassi]

My program director intern yr. Made virtually every ED pt get a DRE. He was an openly gay man, very catty. Wouldn't say flamboyant per se, but extremely catty.

We did rectal exams when it was clearly inappropriate.

Young woman in the ED with a panic attack. Young male in the ED with fever. Total BS.

You should report, that's f'd up

 

[Baron Samedi]

As an update to the OP, the doc was officially charged on Tuesday.

 

[hyperalgesia]

My program director intern yr. Made virtually every ED pt get a DRE. He was an openly gay man, very catty. Wouldn't say flamboyant per se, but extremely catty.

We did rectal exams when it was clearly inappropriate.

Young woman in the ED with a panic attack. Young male in the ED with fever. Total BS.

I did a surg rotation in med school and they were advocating this for every ER eval. No one gay involved as far as I know. As a surg resident explained it, my impression was the purpose was to get the med students over any kind of squeamishness they might have. I don't recall it actually being enforced and actually don't think I did a single DRE on that rotation. This was also 20 years ago.

 

[MitchLevi]

I did a surg rotation in med school and they were advocating this for every ER eval. No one gay involved as far as I know. As a surg resident explained it, my impression was the purpose was to get the med students over any kind of squeamishness they might have. I don't recall it actually being enforced and actually don't think I did a single DRE on that rotation. This was also 20 years ago.

Our attending went to a GI lecture one day and some dude went through all these ridiculous diagnoses that can be caught with a DRE. We did it to the vast majority of ED admits. If you came to the IM residency teams, you got a DRE if he was on call. He would openly disparage you during rounds if you didn't do it, and he was overwhelmingly ridiculous about it.

Ultimately fired by the way. Literally walked off campus by security after being fired. He gathered all the residents in the auditorium and made an impassioned plea to them about how he only cares about their education and just wants them to be great doctors.

Started crying during that speech apparently (I was gone a year or two at this point), and security came and got him.

All that being said, he was a high level physician. Knew everything.

 

[hyperalgesia]

Our attending went to a GI lecture one day and some dude went through all these ridiculous diagnoses that can be caught with a DRE. We did it to the vast majority of ED admits. If you came to the IM residency teams, you got a DRE if he was on call. He would openly disparage you during rounds if you didn't do it, and he was overwhelmingly ridiculous about it.

Ultimately fired by the way. Literally walked off campus by security after being fired. He gathered all the residents in the auditorium and made an impassioned plea to them about how he only cares about their education and just wants them to be great doctors.

Started crying during that speech apparently (I was gone a year or two at this point), and security came and got him.

All that being said, he was a high level physician. Knew everything.

I guess back in the day there was a lot more acceptance for eccentric docs. An OR tech was telling me about a NS who had some kind of minor equipment malfunction during a case and threw an instrument across the room and sat on the floor and started crying in the middle of the case.

Not endorsing bad behavior but we might be on the other end of the spectrum now, where a politically correct but mediocre doc will be better tolerated than a crass and inappropriate eccentric genius doc.

 

[cowboydoc]

I guess back in the day there was a lot more acceptance for eccentric docs. An OR tech was telling me about a NS who had some kind of minor equipment malfunction during a case and threw an instrument across the room and sat on the floor and started crying in the middle of the case.

Not endorsing bad behavior but we might be on the other end of the spectrum now, where a politically correct but mediocre doc will be better tolerated than a crass and inappropriate eccentric genius doc.

That sentiment doesn't seem to be isolated to medicine.

 

[SSdoc33]

Our attending went to a GI lecture one day and some dude went through all these ridiculous diagnoses that can be caught with a DRE. We did it to the vast majority of ED admits. If you came to the IM residency teams, you got a DRE if he was on call. He would openly disparage you during rounds if you didn't do it, and he was overwhelmingly ridiculous about it.

Ultimately fired by the way. Literally walked off campus by security after being fired. He gathered all the residents in the auditorium and made an impassioned plea to them about how he only cares about their education and just wants them to be great doctors.

Started crying during that speech apparently (I was gone a year or two at this point), and security came and got him.

All that being said, he was a high level physician. Knew everything.

i knew a few docs (especially general surgeons) who were big proponents of DRE. you CAN sometimes feel a prostate cancer.

if our realm, its utility is really limited. ive never done one since training. maybe if i was thinking about cauda equina. maybe

 

[Ducttape]

i did so many in residency that my finger turned bluish purple.

have done none as pain doctor.

and dont plan on ever doing one again.


you can check sphincter movement with a q-tip.

 

[Agast]

i did so many in residency that my finger turned bluish purple.

You’re supposed to wash your hands in between patients

 

[Ducttape]

oops.....


fwiw, i did have one senior resident tell me not to glove up - you cant feel the tumors as well...

i think he was joking.

 

[epidural man]

I read this article when it came out - and thought - "medical school teaching is that a DRE is part of the complete exam."

It's funny that if you actually do that - you are a creep. I guess a complete physical exam has gone the way of the DoDo bird.

When I rotated in the CCU, they wanted a DRE on everyone before starting heparin for ACS. Do we even treat ACS with heparin these days?

Speaking of DRE's, one of my most memorable experience as a med student, was when we were doing the practice exams on paid volunteers - and this particular week was the DRE.

My group was at the end of the day, perhaps the last group - and I kept thinking to myself "what kind of person would volunteer for this?"

Anyway, the guy's anus was SOOO inflamed. I felt very bad for him. It was so bad for him, he watched every med student put lube on the finger and told them to put more. It was a very unpleasant experience (for all involved).

 

[Baron Samedi]

Army adds additional charges of sexual assault against military doctor in ongoing investigation

CBS News has confirmed at least 39 people have accused a military doctor of sexual abuse in a growing criminal case.

www.cbsnews.com

Up to 39 alleged victims now. Wild.

 

[paindoc503]

A very long time ago (previous century) a very credible attractive female related a similar sort of experience ( no need to go into details) to me about a physical exam for a knee problem. The doc who did the exam was a well known PMR MD in my medical group. The patient was an RN and thought there was something odd about the physical exam, but was asking me what I thought about it. I said it was not how I would do a knee exam. Left it at that. Here is the thing. Always have a chaperone. Like wearing a seat belt. Should be automatic. Anyone can say anything. Your career is on the line.

Obviously there is alot of judgement needed, but do you have a general age cutoff for when you use a chaperone?

 

[clubdeac]

Our attending went to a GI lecture one day and some dude went through all these ridiculous diagnoses that can be caught with a DRE. We did it to the vast majority of ED admits. If you came to the IM residency teams, you got a DRE if he was on call. He would openly disparage you during rounds if you didn't do it, and he was overwhelmingly ridiculous about it.

Ultimately fired by the way. Literally walked off campus by security after being fired. He gathered all the residents in the auditorium and made an impassioned plea to them about how he only cares about their education and just wants them to be great doctors.

Started crying during that speech apparently (I was gone a year or two at this point), and security came and got him.

All that being said, he was a high level physician. Knew everything.

was he fired for the inappropriate molestation of his patients or something else?

 

[MitchLevi]

was he fired for the inappropriate molestation of his patients or something else?

Fired bc he was generally malignant. He was a complete and total A-Hole across virtually every measure. Brilliant guy. Fund of knowledge way over the top. Utter prick.

 

[hyperalgesia]

It's rare but occasionally I get the sense that things could be misinterpreted during an exam and so I ask a nurse to attend.

It's always when the pt is dressed up like she's going on a date, or otherwise has a deliberate and inappropriate sexual appearance - doesn't matter the age. I've had a late, middle age woman come in with a visible whale tail. "Nurse, can you join us please?"

A few times I've had a female pt oddly sensitive and guarded at the slightest contact and I've wished I had a nurse in with me.

 

[lobelsteve]

It's rare but occasionally I get the sense that things could be misinterpreted during an exam and so I ask a nurse to attend.

It's always when the pt is dressed up like she's going on a date, or otherwise has a deliberate and inappropriate sexual appearance - doesn't matter the age. I've had a late, middle age woman come in with a visible whale tail. "Nurse, can you join us please?"

A few times I've had a female pt oddly sensitive and guarded at the slightest contact and I've wished I had a nurse in with me.

Whale tail is hot: