Army Reserve for practicing physicians

[urgentcaredoc]

Anyone willing to discuss their experiences as a practicing family physician (or any specialty) commissioned in the Army Reserve. I have found it very difficult to evaluate the level of satisfaction for those who have committed to the reserves.

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[DoctaJMa]

Obviously I am still in med school, but from my understanding and what I have read here...Primary Care and EM docs are those deployed the most...but just wait there will be someone else to argue against this post HAHA

Anyway this my understanding....so if you dont mind the idea of getting deployed...then perhaps not a bad gig? I guess it is all how u look at the situation.

 

[urgentcaredoc]

zzzzzzzz............bump

 

[244913]

I am an active duty flight surgeon so I'm not the sme on the reserve side of things.

The reserves are supposed to be deployed for 3-6 mos tops. As a board certified er or family doc this means you would likely be sent downrange as staff at one of the csh's or would backfill stateside for a deployed doc. Essentially it means you'd be able to function and serve the way you're trained to be, which is a good thing.

The army will probably dangle loan repayment as an incentive and you will get drill pay etc. What you really need to consider is the family and business cost of leaving your practice for at least 6 mos, often on short notice. Just because you might not go to centcom doesn't mean you won't be unceremoniously uprooted and scattered to the 3 winds.

I would caution against joining the army reserves unless you simply have a burning desire to serve and are willing to accept financial and family hardship. The army is using the reserve components as fill ins for the active force. This is not what the reserves are trained for, or even capable of doing.

Lastly, there is a distinct possibility you would be deployed for a year possibly as a battalion or brigade surgeon. These jobs are ideal for untrained gmo type folks. For board certified people they are a professional death sentence and a significant challenge militarily speaking. You are an officer first and doctor second.

Some food for thought. Good luck

 

[Apollyon]

My cousin (and this my anecdote) is an EM-trained and -boarded doc in an academic hospital. He was an officer of Marines before med school, and still wanted to serve, so he joined the Army Reserve after residency.

He has deployed twice to Iraq, for 12 months each time. He is NOT a rabble-rouser or a trouble maker. He thought that he had served enough to suit him, and went to resign his commission 2 years ago. His CO declined his resignation, and set him to deploy to the suck for his second tour (another 12 months).

 

[notdeadyet]

Consider the Army National Guard. The tempo at its height was every 24 months. Deployments are 90 days boots-in-sand. Not sure if the Reserves are using the same policy.

 

[urgentcaredoc]

I am an active duty flight surgeon so I'm not the sme on the reserve side of things.

The reserves are supposed to be deployed for 3-6 mos tops. As a board certified er or family doc this means you would likely be sent downrange as staff at one of the csh's or would backfill stateside for a deployed doc. Essentially it means you'd be able to function and serve the way you're trained to be, which is a good thing.

The army will probably dangle loan repayment as an incentive and you will get drill pay etc. What you really need to consider is the family and business cost of leaving your practice for at least 6 mos, often on short notice. Just because you might not go to centcom doesn't mean you won't be unceremoniously uprooted and scattered to the 3 winds.

I would caution against joining the army reserves unless you simply have a burning desire to serve and are willing to accept financial and family hardship. The army is using the reserve components as fill ins for the active force. This is not what the reserves are trained for, or even capable of doing.

Lastly, there is a distinct possibility you would be deployed for a year possibly as a battalion or brigade surgeon. These jobs are ideal for untrained gmo type folks. For board certified people they are a professional death sentence and a significant challenge militarily speaking. You are an officer first and doctor second.

Some food for thought. Good luck

Thanks for the honest input...it's greatly appreciated!

My motivation for the reserves is solely based on my previous military service and interest to serve in a new capacity as a physician. In no way, is my decision based on the meager bonus provided. Not that I will give the bonus away, but I realize this is not a "money making" venture.

I understand the the needs of the military supersede my desires, however my main concern is how consistent the 90 day boots/sand on ground deployments have been adhered to the past several years. In addition, how much advance notice is typically given prior to mobilization or deployment? I suspect you may not be able to answer this based on your active status.

I have heard about the batallion surgeon positons as a reservist (especially National Guard), but never in a status more than typically 90 days. How often have you seen this?

As an former Navy air traffic controller, I have considered a position as a flight surgeon which allows me to drill less than 3 miles from my home. Any thoughts how this would alter my deployments in regards to frequncy or duration? I do understand this requires an additional 6 week course commitment.

Thanks again and good luck to you.

 

[waterski232002]

Anyone have experience in the Army National Guard? Can you still be deployed overseas? As a battalion or brigade surgeon?

What actually is the pay for someone who is on the Army Reserve or Army National Guard?

 

[JackADeli]

...My motivation for the reserves is solely based on my previous military service and interest to serve in a new capacity as a physician...

Keep in mind that medical corps is less then what most prior service folks would view/call "military" and/or "squared away".

The medical side in the military is the most utilized group of "reservists" for deployments. Each services have differing levels of shortages in each specialties.... But, I doubt there is any specialty in which the lack a shortage. I read somewhere a couple years back that the army had only TWO boarded psychiatrist for the entire continental USA. This may explain why they kept and promoted the assassin from recent tragic news. If you are reserves and primary care... you will be deployed, this will impact your civilian practice. If you are ED, you will be deployed, if you are surgery of any kind (to include OB/Gyn & Uro) you will be deployed, if you are anesthesia you will be deployed.

The "boots on the ground" can be deceptive. You can have upwards of weeks to months pre-deployment fitness & readiness. You can also have lengthy outprocessing when you return.

Consider these final thoughts.... you are a family practice physician in your own nice little clinic somewhere. You get orders and are deployed.... Your employees/clinic staff quickly become unemployed, your patients quickly transfer care to another ?more reliable provider, depending on your baseline overhead costs for your clinic... you might have some problems. None of these problems are excuses to justify non-deployment.... because you are a grown adult boy or girl and accepted the benefits of reserve status fully aware of these possibilities. The monies/benefits of reserve status are in effect acceptance of a retainer fee for future obligation. You made a choice to "serve" and these are some of the costs of service!

 

[backrow]

I read somewhere a couple years back that the army had only TWO boarded psychiatrist for the entire continental USA.

Really, seriously? Does that statment make sense to you at all. Common sense is lacking.

There are more than "TWO boarded psychiatrists" at WRAMC alone. That doesn't even include Madigan, BAMC, or any multitude of the other Army hospitals.

 

[IgD]

His CO declined his resignation, and set him to deploy to the suck for his second tour (another 12 months).

Wow. How is that possible?

 

[IgD]

...I read somewhere a couple years back that the army had only TWO boarded psychiatrist for the entire continental USA.

The Navy has about 100 boarded psychiatrists. I think the Army has a slightly greater number. When you put the total number of service members and billets on paper it is challenging to meet the need. It definitely felt like there were only 2 in the Navy at times

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Wow. How is that possible?

Easy: his first officer 8-year service commission was served and then he resigned his USMC commission. Then he was re-commissioned as an Army active reserve medical officer with another eight-year commitment and was activated and then deployed. Sure, you can ask to resign a commission before your eight years are up, but they don't have to give it to you, no matter what you think.

 

[JackADeli]

Really, seriously? Does that statment make sense to you at all. Common sense is lacking.

There are more than "TWO boarded psychiatrists" at WRAMC alone. That doesn't even include Madigan, BAMC, or any multitude of the other Army hospitals.

I am not in the military. But yes, I can see the military having shortages of professionals to that extreme... why not? What, does the military have some sort of physician growth trees. They get what is available and it really depends on people wanting to join. They can hire private sector psychs to fill that gap... because truely psych is often not an emergent field. FPs often provide some basic depression counseling, etc...

However, I guess around 5 or so years ago, that is what the med-corp recruiters were telling me. I don't know how the numbers are comprised or who was deployed where. I have seen numerous civilian contracted psychiatrists throughout the USA. What the actual number of active duty, fully functional psychiatrist servicing USA mainland at that time... I don't know. I would be curious about how many active duty Army psychs were stationed stateside at WRAMC & BAMC around the time just prior to 9/11....

I also had a colleague of mine that went to med-corps officer basic. She apparently was in a transport with the other trainees. One happened to be a ~middle age, petite psychiatrist joining for 9/11 patriotism. They "waivered" (I think that is the correct word) her age.... Long story short, she sustained multiple osteoporosis lumbar compression fractures from the bumps the truck hit while taking the trainees to the field..... medical/honorable discharge with benefits....

According to all medical recruiters knocking on my door over the past years and my colleagues in the military, 9/11 really helped the over all military numbers of physicians... Subsequent wars and deployments have reportedly been degradeing those gains.

 

[notdeadyet]

I am not in the military. But yes, I can see the military having shortages of professionals to that extreme... why not?

Because the Army has multiple psychiatry residency programs. Doing that with only two boarded psychiatrists in the entire Army doesn't seem realistic to me.

 

[JackADeli]

Because the Army has multiple psychiatry residency programs. Doing that with only two boarded psychiatrists in the entire Army doesn't seem realistic to me.

That's fair.... I can only go by what I was told back then. So, a question, I don't know the answer to.... what percentage of attending staff are actual ARMY "soldiers" on active duty or reserve duty and what percentage are private contractors? Then the question goes back to the period around 9/11.... how many actual ARMY "soldier" psychiatrists vs other services and/or civilian contractors? I don't know the answer. My buddy back from overseas said they used a civilian psychiatrist.

 

[Apollyon]

Wow. How is that possible?

I don't have the details. As he was already a board-certified doc when he signed up, he didn't owe any time or money - God's honest truth, my cousin, the patriot, the quiet, unassuming guy that could kill you in 3 seconds, but would prefer to (and would, successfully) talk with you into a solution, a diligent, honorable, upstanding man, with an unblemished record in two services, humble, and a great father and husband - I don't know what was the deal. When he had first signed up, something occurred, and he had actually said to a senior officer that a verbal agreement should stand, "as it was the gentlemanly and honorable way", and, as I was told, it was indeed honored (how often does that occur?). He is a stand up guy, so I don't know if it was in the vein of stop-loss (or a similar flavor), or what.

(Lest I sound like he is the next Surgeon General, he's...hmm...quite boring. He is not the life of the party.)

 

[urgentcaredoc]

I understand the the needs of the military supersede my desires, however my main concern is how consistent the 90 day boots/sand on ground deployments have been adhered to the past several years. In addition, how much advance notice is typically given prior to mobilization or deployment? I suspect you may not be able to answer this based on your active status.

Of the very small number of physicians (six), that I have personally spoke to substantiate this policy. Any current active or reserve family medicine and/or flight surgeons willing to support or refute this claim?

Thanks for the input.

 

[jabreal00]

Really, seriously? Does that statment make sense to you at all. Common sense is lacking.

There are more than "TWO boarded psychiatrists" at WRAMC alone. That doesn't even include Madigan, BAMC, or any multitude of the other Army hospitals.

I don't believe that there were only 2 AD board certified psychiatrists in the Army at any on point in the continental US. However, there were no active duty psychiatrist at BAMC when I trained there. Only 1 or 2 civilians. The rest psychologists, social workers or nurse practitioners. There's no residency program there.

 

[JackADeli]

I don't believe that there were only 2 AD board certified psychiatrists in the Army at any on point in the continental US. However, there were no active duty psychiatrist at BAMC when I trained there. Only 1 or 2 civilians. The rest psychologists, social workers or nurse practitioners. There's no residency program there.

Yeh, again, don't know the fine print. But, as it was described to me ~five years ago, I may get the initials wrong, "There were only two board certified psychiatrist assigned to cover CONUS..." There were others in the army, but apparently not in the CONUS thing. That doesn't mean there were no private contractors or reservists.....

 

[Gastrapathy]

Yeh, again, don't know the fine print. But, as it was described to me ~five years ago, I may get the initials wrong, "There were only two board certified psychiatrist assigned to cover CONUS..." There were others in the army, but apparently not in the CONUS thing. That doesn't mean there were no private contractors or reservists.....

This was undoubtedly false 5 years ago. Not sure what else to tell ya.

 

[JackADeli]

...there were no active duty psychiatrist at BAMC when I trained there. Only 1 or 2 civilians. The rest psychologists, social workers or nurse practitioners...

...again, don't know the fine print. But, as it was described to me ~five years ago, ..."There were only two board certified psychiatrist assigned to cover CONUS..." There were others in the army, but apparently not in the CONUS thing...

This was undoubtedly false 5 years ago. Not sure what else to tell ya.

OK, that's fine with me. Again, I don't claim to be in army ~"force command". It would be interesting for folks considering reserves to know actual numbers. Not sure why recruiters and soldiers gave me that number ~5yrs ago. So, granting that number is wrong....

How flush in board certified specialty ACTIVE DUTY/Soldier physicians were/are they? More then two.... They have 10 psychiatrists for the "CONUS"? Maybe 20? Where are they at now.... i.e. how much of the psych healthcare need in continental USA is provided by ACTIVE DUTY/Soldier physicians? vs reservists and/or civilians and/or psychologists?

It's important to have a grasp of this and other specialties. Keep in mind, these physicians provide services for both the reserve activated & active duty soldiers... and their families. If there is a shortage.... reservists are the ones called. My understanding is the healthcare arm of the reserves is one of the most commonly activated component of the reserves. The "domestic" side will be supplemented by civilian contractors & reservists when deployments, over seas assignments, etc....

 

[dwb8p]

JackADeli, I see you posting a lot in this forum without actually being in the military. Have you previously been in, or what's your association?

 

[JackADeli]

JackADeli, I see you posting a lot in this forum without actually being in the military. Have you previously been in, or what's your association?

It's a open forum.... just as I am not a Family Practice physician and post there as well.

Per military, I have had numerous workings and/or associations with the military over numerous years (~2 decades). This has included colleagues in undergrad & med-school that were in military/under military contract, years of interactions (positive & negative) with recruiters at many levels and asking direct and detailed questions of the recruiters. It has included working side by side with colleagues during residency attached to the military from prior service, scholarships, etc.... It has included working with attendings that were in medical corps, getting deployed or returning from deployment, etc... It has been reviewing residency applications of new med-school grads and folks trying to get into civilian residency from any number of military circumstances past, present, future, etc....

No, I am not in the military. No, I am not an expert. No, I have not been deployed or experienced the special opportunities that come with those acts of service. I am very comfortable with folks responding and/or correcting with more current/accurate data when possible.

I encourage service at all levels... just so long as it is INFORMED. And, if choosing service, own YOUR choice to the fullest. As a physician, I don't think you need to be military or any other association, to be embarassed if not offended by educated folks (representing our profession) CHOOSING a path and then pleading how duped they were. Ask questions... There are too many resources as a I note above.... classmates, residents, attendings, veterans, etc, etc, etc.... Ask questions about future partners when entering practice, ask question about military when choosing a military practice/partnership...

Finally, I appreciate your question and find it completely, God forbid I use the term..."Fair". But, if one wants a purely military perspective and/or pure military forum... I think the individual services have such forums. the army has something called "AKO"....

 

[dwb8p]

JackADeli, thanks for the reply.

FYI, AKO isn't at all a forum in the same sense as SDN. It's more or less a very disorganized army web portal and email system.

 

[urgentcaredoc]

Hey way off topic...this thread has been "jacked"eek:

 

[el mero mero]

BUMP

I'm prior service and going through the process of joining.

Is there anyone that is willing to talk about their experience in the army reserve?
I specifically am interested in what it's like in a TPU. Also, I am interested in how the reserve utilizes specialists. I know ops tempo as change, but any stories (horror or not) are appreciated as well.

Thanks!

 

[i want out]

Of the very small number of physicians (six), that I have personally spoke to substantiate this policy. Any current active or reserve family medicine and/or flight surgeons willing to support or refute this claim? .

Thanks for the input..

The devil is in the details, while they may only be able to deploy reservists to war zone for 90 days boys on ground, the standard navy practice when I was in, was to activate a reservist to fill a stateside billet for a longer period of time (up to a year) then yes the active duty physician to deploy.

This way rather than getting just 90 days out of the body, they get two 6 month deployments from the active physicians.

I ran into 1 Naval reserve physician in my time, that was used for the above, and was told by his practice back home, that there wasn't room for him to come back.

I also knew 2 army reserve PA's, met both on deployment, neither ones marriage survived the deployment, I know one declared bankruptcy while deployed, and I think the other did as well.

 

[sonofva]

I ran into 1 Naval reserve physician in my time, that was used for the above, and was told by his practice back home, that there wasn't room for him to come back.



.

This is not legal. You should have 12 months in which your employer is obligated to retain your job for you

 

[colbgw02]

It's also reality. A practice can come up with myriad reasons not to retain someone. In most cases, the former employee either can't prove the termination was illegal or they will spend so much money in the process that it would be a Pyrrhic victory even if successful.

 

[notdeadyet]

The devil is in the details, while they may only be able to deploy reservists to war zone for 90 days boys on ground, the standard navy practice when I was in, was to activate a reservist to fill a stateside billet for a longer period of time (up to a year) then yes the active duty physician to deploy.

Unless things have changed, the 90 days boots-on-ground policy was Army reserve corps only. I don't believe the navy reserve ever had a similar policy. When Army RC are activated, CONUS or OCONUS, the limit is 90 days + up to 30 days total pre/post mob. The Navy reserve gets away with longer activations because they have no such 90 day policy.

 

[sonofva]

It's also reality. A practice can come up with myriad reasons not to retain someone. In most cases, the former employee either can't prove the termination was illegal or they will spend so much money in the process that it would be a Pyrrhic victory even if successful.

Well that's some unamerican bullsh*!

 

[Gastrapathy]

This is not legal. You should have 12 months in which your employer is obligated to retain your job for you..

The key word is employer. If you are a partner in a practice, you are the employer. No protection as a business owner from your partners.