Asexuality?

[futureapppsy2]

What are your thoughts on asexuality as a sexual orientation? I have a friend from undergrad who identifies as asexual, and so I've talked to her a bit about it. I have to admit, it sounds plausible. If people can be "wired" to be sexually attracted to the same sex, the opposite sex, or both/all sexes, it seems entirely possible that some people wouldn't be sexually attracted to anyone or would be very rarely sexually attracted to people. The evo psych arguments against it sound kind of sketchy to me because you could make the same "non-reproduction" arguments against homosexuality (and, well, it's evo psych, so a grain of salt is already required ).

I'm not aware of much research on this subject--at least, a cursory psycinfo search didn't come up with anything .

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[cara susanna]

Is asexuality about desire or other aspects of sex as well? For instance, is someone who is asexual able to become aroused in sexual situations?

 

[MBellows]

Is asexuality about desire or other aspects of sex as well? For instance, is someone who is asexual able to become aroused in sexual situations?

I'm not sure that response to sexual stimulation is an appropriate measure of sexuality considering reports of women who are suffer from depressive thoughts after having even some degree of physical response to a rape, or how some otherwise straight men or women have same-sex relations while in prison or military service where opposite sex partners aren't available. At this point I think you're just getting to a question of whether or not the physiological sex parts function the way they are supposed to when stimulated.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Is asexuality about desire or other aspects of sex as well? For instance, is someone who is asexual able to become aroused in sexual situations?

My (very limited) understanding is that some asexual people report experience low/no sexual arousal while others experience sexual arousal but have no actual desire to have sex. Like MBellows said, arousal doesn't necessarily equal attraction, though (similarly, people can be unable to experience physiological arousal but still desire sex).

 

[betsybugaboo]

YMMV, total non-professional:
Well, talking as a self-identified asexual, asexuals may or may not become aroused in sexual situations such as rape or when viewing pornography. Asexuality is the lack of sexual attraction; I personally don't get aroused by porn, I have never been attracted to anyone sexually, and am repulsed by anything more sexual than close-mouthed kissing. However, some asexuals are neutral towards sex and may be willing to have it for their partner.

A good resource for the OP is the Asexuality Visibility and Education Network site.

 

[CheetahGirl]

We had a very nice didactic at our VA about LGBT qualifications, and how sexuality and gender inform clinical evaluations and care. Asexuality was a category among others for those who lack in sexual desire (meaning it was not guiding factor in interpersonal relationships...these folks functioned well with the lack of sex), but this is separate for those who identify with both male and female traits or desires (i.e., someone who is transgendered or even someone who is bisexual...both being different qualifications of sexuality also). I also agree with MBellows that arousal does not constitute self-identified sexuality. There used to be a LGBT-Q where "Q" stood for Queer (not the in derogatory sense, but in the fluctuation of feelings from one day to another, so this Q became "Questioning" in some of the sexual orientation literature). Asexuality is even different from Questioning as it takes volition and biological need in play, and from what I've learned, those who identify as Asexual just don't view sexuality or procreation as a priority in their repertoire, and may be entirely satisfied with non-sexual relationships.

Futureapppsy2, you're probably not finding anything in the literature because all of this is fairly new in the field. You can try to do a pubmed search, but the person who chaired our didactic is a psychiatrist and he said that historically the issues of androgyny, asexuality, transgenderism (again, all mutually exclusive and not meant to lumped together) initiated in the medical literature because physicians were tasked with responsibility of caring for these folks via medical procedures and treatments (probably starting around 1970s is when it became more widespread regarding the start of ethical responsibilities to the patient and treating clinician).

Provocative but appropriate to the topic, there could be those who identify as asexual but still self-stimulate...then the question is who or what do they think about when/if they fantasize during self-stimulation. That may be a clue as to their existing sexual preference from a psychological point-of-view, whilst the individual claims to be asexual. However, there are some who do not self-stimulate and go about their days with the lack of sexuality in their being. To me (based on what I learned) that is a someone who is truly asexual in the sense I think you are inquiring about.

 

[PsyDr]

There are tons of stuff in the literature about this, just not using the term asexual.

Behaviorally, it is either that there is lack of deprivation(i.e., hypoactive drive) or that there is discriminated avoidance. In the former, there are some treatments which could be used if the patient finds the condition unfavorable. In the latter condition, psychotherapy and behavioral therapy can help.

I think the sad thing is when discriminated avoidance leads the person to identify as asexual.

 

[MCParent]

There are tons of stuff in the literature about this, just not using the term asexual.

Behaviorally, it is either that there is lack of deprivation(i.e., hypoactive drive) or that there is discriminated avoidance. In the former, there are some treatments which could be used if the patient finds the condition unfavorable. In the latter condition, psychotherapy and behavioral therapy can help.

I think the sad thing is when discriminated avoidance leads the person to identify as asexual.

Yes; I've seen people who appear to have sexual aversion due to sexual trauma, and then they identify as asexual, and then the therapist doesn't question it at all out of a desire to "respect the identity."

Not that asexual people could not have been sexually assaulted and still just be asexual; I do think that the identity label is sometimes used to avoid engaging with the trauma though.

 

[WisNeuro]

I do believe it is a real thing, but as others have alluded to, make sure you rule out other factors (i.e., trauma, endocrine disorders, etc).

 

[smalltownpsych]

very strong sex drive -- strong sex drive -- medium sex drive -- low sex drive -- very low sex drive
That is sort of how I see it. The problem my patients have is when someone (family member, friends, society, themselves) tries to tell them that they should be some other way than what they are. It usually comes down to a core belief such as "I'm not good enough", "I am flawed", "people will only love me if I'm perfect" or other variations on that theme. This applies to a myriad of concepts including gender identity, gender roles, career stuff, academics, sports, artistic performances, you name it.

 

[PsyDr]

... asexuals may or may not become aroused in sexual situations such as rape...

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I'm wondering if the poster was using the example of a forced sexual encounter just to bring up the concept of an involuntary biological arousal response, which may occur despite the individual being asexual (just as it might in victims of assault who aren't asexual).

Although using an example of a consensual situation, such as was mentioned re: for the sake of a partner, may have also gotten the point across.

 

[CheetahGirl]

the example of a forced sexual encounter just to bring up the concept of an involuntary biological arousal response, which may occur despite the individual being asexual (just as it might in victims of assault who aren't asexual).

Yes, I believe this is exactly what the poster was alluding to with the "may or may not" ....we should all know from Sexual Assault Training 101 that arousal does not equal consent or mutual willingness...it is a biological process, that can be involuntary.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Yes, I believe this is exactly what the poster was alluding to with the "may or may not" ....we should all know from Sexual Assault Training 101 that arousal does not equal consent or mutual willingness...it is a biological process, that can be involuntary.

Exactly.

 

[deleted343839]

There is some published research on human asexuality, mostly in sexual behavior/sex therapy journals. What seems clear is that asexuality is foremost an identity. As I understand it, the common denominator is a lack of sexual attraction to other people. Otherwise, to a certain extent, asexuality is whatever the person who identifies with that label says it is. Some asexuals have sex with a partner, some masturbate, some have romantic but non-sexual relationships, and some don't do any of these things. One study found that self-identified asexual men masturbated about as often as men in the general population. In 5 or 10 years someone will probably have some data on the stability of an asexual identity, which will be fascinating.

 

[WisNeuro]

I'll be interested once they move beyond self-report methodology is some of this work. I'd be curious if there is a subset that has a subclinical endo condition (e.g., hypothyroid, hypogonadism, etc) which may be the main contributory factor.

 

[PsyDr]

There has been a bunch of stuff in the media about the first ever FDA approved medication for hypoactive sexual disorder.

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm458734.htm

 

[WisNeuro]

That drug's history is fairly shady. The evidence is lacking, the side effects are potentially life threatening, and that thing got approved due to a huge influx of cash and a publicity campaign.

 

[deleted343839]

Also, folks in the asexual community tend to be pretty adamant that they do not have a dysfunction requiring treatment. On a case-by-case basis I'm sure there are a number of ways to interpret that stance, but that's the narrative.

 

[WisNeuro]

Also, folks in the asexual community tend to be pretty adamant that they do not have a dysfunction requiring treatment. On a case-by-case basis I'm sure there are a number of ways to interpret that stance, but that's the narrative.

Oh, I don't doubt that. But if I see very low T levels at a certain level in a 30 year old male, he can assert all he wants, but it's still a dysfunction. If we saw a patient with chronic BP of 160/110, but insisted that they didn't have high blood pressure, we don't take high BP out of the chart. It has a myriad of health consequences, just like endocrine dysfunction. The person can choose whether or not they want it treated, and risk comorbid disorders, but it's still a medical disorder.

 

[deleted343839]

Of course. It's always a factor to rule out. But endocrine conditions don't explain the majority of cases of low sexual desire, so I'd be surprised if they explained many cases of asexuality.

On a related note, I can barely get through a clinic without a man or a man's partner telling me he has or might have "low T."

 

[WisNeuro]

Of course. It's always a factor to rule out. But endocrine conditions don't explain the majority of cases of low sexual desire, so I'd be surprised if they explained many cases of asexuality.

On a related note, I can barely get through a clinic without a man or a man's partner telling me he has or might have "low T."

I haven't seen the frequency data on how many are explained by endo dfxn, but I assume it is not an insignificant number.

As for the "low T" med seeking patients, maybe they're just professional athletes looking for an "edge" in competition. Or, maybe just unhappy/unsatisfied spouses

 

[deleted343839]

I haven't seen the frequency data on how many are explained by endo dfxn, but I assume it is not an insignificant number.

As for the "low T" med seeking patients, maybe they're just professional athletes looking for an "edge" in competition. Or, maybe just unhappy/unsatisfied spouses

It's a subgroup, for sure. But I'm aware of at least one study that failed to differentiate men with and without hypoactive sexual desire disorder on the basis of serum T levels. If only it were that simple.

Today's modal treatment-seeking "low T" patient is an overweight, sedentary, middle-aged man in a long-term relationship for whom treatment guidelines (for T therapy) really don't exist.

 

[WisNeuro]

Just serum T levels, though? Roughly 1o-15% of the population will develop a thyroid disorder in their lifetime, was that also ruled out?

 

[deleted343839]

Well, now you made me go and look up the study! And it turns out it's not the best example because the authors wanted "true" HSDD (per DSM-IV criteria, not attributable to other conditions) and therefore ruled out half the sample (both with and without low desire) for depression, other sexual disorders, and yes, true hypogonadism. But after ruling out those conditions, the HSDD and non-HSDD men were similar in terms of other chronic medical conditions and medication use.

This thread has gone off track, so I'll circle back to get to my point, which is that clinicians tend to emphasize medical/organic risk factors for low sexual desire when they are just one piece of the picture, and often not the most important one.

 

[MCParent]

This thread has gone off track, so I'll circle back to get to my point, which is that clinicians tend to emphasize medical/organic risk factors for low sexual desire when they are just one piece of the picture, and often not the most important one.

People derive and don't derive pleasure and identity from all sorts of things, from skydiving to having children. I can totally buy that some people don't feel especially drawn to sexual activity.

 

[WisNeuro]

People derive and don't derive pleasure and identity from all sorts of things, from skydiving to having children. I can totally buy that some people don't feel especially drawn to sexual activity.

I totally buy it too, I just would rather rule out medical conditions first. Especially when they have long-term medical consequences and comorbidities.

 

[bmedclinic]

Is asexuality about desire or other aspects of sex as well? For instance, is someone who is asexual able to become aroused in sexual situations?

I'm sorry- not to be too OT- what do you mean by a sexual situation? I think it's entirely plausible that an asexual person isnt going to perceive the situation in the same manner, and therefore become aroused at the same situation as others.

Certainly, we've all probably had hyper-sexual clients that appear to become aroused from, well, anything. Certainly from situations I dont consider sexually arousing. In a sense, I would consider asexuality the opposite of hypersexuality (except without a "negative" label attached to it) and view it legitimately from that perspective.

 

[cara susanna]

I'm sorry- not to be too OT- what do you mean by a sexual situation? I think it's entirely plausible that an asexual person isnt going to perceive the situation in the same manner, and therefore become aroused at the same situation as others.

Certainly, we've all probably had hyper-sexual clients that appear to become aroused from, well, anything. Certainly from situations I dont consider sexually arousing. In a sense, I would consider asexuality the opposite of hypersexuality (except without a "negative" label attached to it) and view it legitimately from that perspective.

Keep in mind that I posted that two years ago, so I'm trying to remember what I was getting at. I guess by sexual situation, I meant sexual stimulation. I might have also meant stimuli that often causes sexual desire/arousal, but you're right in that is up to interpretation.

 

[betsybugaboo]

I'm wondering if the poster was using the example of a forced sexual encounter just to bring up the concept of an involuntary biological arousal response, which may occur despite the individual being asexual (just as it might in victims of assault who aren't asexual).

Although using an example of a consensual situation, such as was mentioned re: for the sake of a partner, may have also gotten the point across.

Yeah, this is what I was trying to get at.