Ask a Radiation Oncology Resident Anything...

[lazers]

That does make me feel better about the future of rad onc.

So you did the year of research because you didn't get into the field before third year?

I did my research year due to a family related reason. However I do think that completing that research year significantly increased my chances of matching (you don't apply for the match until your 4th year, so if you decide to do a research year between 3rd and 4th year, it's prior to you applying for the match).

Kinda similar to a previous question.. Do you have any advice for someone who goes to an unranked MD school with no home department? Luckily, I'm near Chicago so there are several RadOnc departments in the city. Since you said that med school tier does matter, would taking a year off to strengthen your app be more advisable?

I would stay in contact with the radonc department of the schools close by. I also recommend getting involved with the research early as that'll give you an advantage.

Working in a field that may experience death more often than other fields, how hard is it for you to deal with a death of a patient and how do you deal with it?

I've come to accept death as a natural part of life. It becomes easier to accept once you're done with medical school and you see it.

Rank Stanford, Penn, UCLA, MIR, and Chicago for program quality. Ignore location.

Radiation specific:
MIR > Standford > Penn > Chicago > UCLA

do you have any general advice you would have given yourself while you were a pre-med?

Get involved with the radonc department early on.

Could you give a brief overview of the care you provide a "standard" patient over the course of their therapy? In other words, how many separate times might you see a patient (including assessment and post-treatment, if you do that), how long do these last on average, and how long the time span is from 1st visit to final visit?

Sorry if the question is confusing, mostly interested in continuity of care and opportunity to form a relationship with the patient

We first see the patient after a referral from a medical oncologist or a surgeon. Subsequent to the referral we consult with the patient either as an outpatient or in the hospital. Then we do what's called a simulation session where we make a virtual copy of the patients body to plan our treatment. Subsequent to planning we have the patient come back for the radiotherapy. The radiotherapy can be between 1-40 session sessions. Once we're done with the radiation we follow up the patient between 1-3 months after completion of radiotherapy. We subsequently followup the patient every 2 months - 1 year depending on the cancer and how long they've been free of their cancer. There is definitely long term continuity of care and the patients are always appreciative to be cured of their cancer when they see you in follow-up (I feel like this is the most rewarding part of the field).

I'm pretty sure I'll be doing research in my time off between M1 and M2. I don't have any specialty I'm particularly attracted to yet so what kind of project would you recommend I try to get involved in given that I haven't done any clinicals yet to get a better feel for what I might like to do.

Shadowing physicians would give you a better sense of what you might be interested in as opposed to completing a research project. I don't believe research (even clinical research) would give you a good feel of any particular fields daily work.

Makes sense. Thanks!

Also, I have a question about case reports. Is it possible for medical students to get involved in writing case reports with attendings? How would you suggest finding those types of opportunities? Is it possible for medical students to ask to get involved in writing case reports without stepping on anyone else's (e.g. residents) toes?

Yes medical students can definitely get involved with writing case reports. I always like it when I have medical students interested in writing case reports. I suggest asking the attendings if they have any interesting cases that they'd like written up.

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[loveoforganic2]

We first see the patient after a referral from a medical oncologist or a surgeon. Subsequent to the referral we consult with the patient either as an outpatient or in the hospital. Then we do what's called a simulation session where we make a virtual copy of the patients body to plan our treatment. Subsequent to planning we have the patient come back for the radiotherapy. The radiotherapy can be between 1-40 session sessions. Once we're done with the radiation we follow up the patient between 1-3 months after completion of radiotherapy. We subsequently followup the patient every 2 months - 1 year depending on the cancer and how long they've been free of their cancer. There is definitely long term continuity of care and the patients are always appreciative to be cured of their cancer when they see you in follow-up (I feel like this is the most rewarding part of the field).

Thanks, exactly what I was asking about!

 

[An MD Hopeful]

Yes medical students can definitely get involved with writing case reports. I always like it when I have medical students interested in writing case reports. I suggest asking the attendings if they have any interesting cases that they'd like written up.

Thank you! I find this very reassuring!

 

[ElephantRevival]

Radiation Oncology is something that I've been interested in for a while now. Over the past few years, I've had the opportunity to do some research with experimental NMR, which led me to eventually exploring RADONC. (It helped that I was dating a medical physicist at the time). Nowadays, as I finish up post-bacc requirements for med school and (another) degree, I'm also taking a RADONC physics class this semester, and a dosimetry class next semester, while participating in research at the treatment center of the school. I'll have a Nuclear Chem/Physics degree when I *hopefully* make it into med school.

My question is two-fold.
1) Though it's something I find incredibly fascinating and enjoyable, my primary hesitation in pursuing this field is the length of residency. How did this factor into your decision? When I think of residency, I think of 80 hours/week at the hospital, high stress, no pay, and generally being treated like dirt, so as little of that as possible would be great.

2) Though I'd like to specialize in something, I would still like to hone and retain skills as a GP in some fashion. With your training, would you feel comfortable, say, leading medical missions trips, supervising PAs or students at low-cost clinics, or even volunteering your time in a similar setting? Is this an absurd idea? Are there many DOs in RADONC?

 

[thesauce]

Radiation Oncology is something that I've been interested in for a while now. Over the past few years, I've had the opportunity to do some research with experimental NMR, which led me to eventually exploring RADONC. (It helped that I was dating a medical physicist at the time). Nowadays, as I finish up post-bacc requirements for med school and (another) degree, I'm also taking a RADONC physics class this semester, and a dosimetry class next semester, while participating in research at the treatment center of the school. I'll have a Nuclear Chem/Physics degree when I *hopefully* make it into med school.

My question is two-fold.
1) Though it's something I find incredibly fascinating and enjoyable, my primary hesitation in pursuing this field is the length of residency. How did this factor into your decision? When I think of residency, I think of 80 hours/week at the hospital, high stress, no pay, and generally being treated like dirt, so as little of that as possible would be great.

2) Though I'd like to specialize in something, I would still like to hone and retain skills as a GP in some fashion. With your training, would you feel comfortable, say, leading medical missions trips, supervising PAs or students at low-cost clinics, or even volunteering your time in a similar setting? Is this an absurd idea? Are there many DOs in RADONC?

If I may...

1. It's a total of 5 years and very few pursue a fellowship. Comparing this to most of the other technical/procedural disciplines, it's pretty average and maybe even on the low side in terms of length of training.

Internship is highly variable depending on whether you do a prelim medicine, surgery, or cushy transitional year. That will likely be your hardest year (hours-wise). Radonc residency, in general, is pretty lifestyle friendly. I average 50-60 hours per week - it's never close to 80. You will also be spending a lot of time outside of work reading up on your patients and relevant trials, of course. First year was tough because of the very steep learning curve and generally figuring out how the clinic operates. By second year, things were a lot more manageable.

Salary is what you make of it. If you're into fancy restaurants and have to live in an upscale condo, you aren't going to have any money left over. If you know how to manage your money, you'll get by, even in L.A. If you live in a cheaper city, you could probably buy a house and have plenty of money left over.

re: being treated like dirt. You will deal with tough personalities in any field and residents do often bear the brunt of the blame in the department. The key is not to be too sensitive.

As hard as it might seem, try not to think of residency as a postponement of your life. You are learning, getting paid, and don't have to pay tuition. Yes, you will work hard, but you will get out of it what you put into it. I don't watch the clock.

2. You will have some GP skill atrophy by the end of radonc residency. However, I'm very comfortable with H&Ps and what's normal and what's not. I feel that I can identify who needs a higher level of care (i.e. who needs to go to the ER for emergent imaging) and who doesn't. Although I have no plans to pursue medical mission trips, there's no reason that I couldn't do it, depending on the setup (I can't fix cleft palates with Project Smile). We do teach both students and PAs in our clinic, so I don't know why it would be different in the GP setting.

There are not many DOs matching in radonc these days. I think there has been an average of one per year for the past decade or so.

 

[thesauce]

I have a question here from a medical student. I came into medical school wanting to do RadOnc because I worked for a device manufacturer in Palo alto selling linacs and planning software after college. When I finally got to school and started working with residents and attendings at our cancer center, I became very discouraged about RadOnc because it seemed like it was more "tech-y" than "medicine-y". Most of the patient management was performed by someone in medicine, clinic visits were mostly performed by nurses, treatment was delivered by therapists, and most of the technical planning was done by physicists. After spending a year and a half in front of a computer screen watching people draw contours on a CT sim, I started looking for something else to do. My question is: what in particular excites you about Radiotherapy in practice? Please do not take this a snarky or condescending question because I truly am interested in RadOnc. Before I decide that RadOnc is not for me, I would like to know if maybe my experience is specific to my institution only? Thanks in advance...

I think your question got passed up and I want to make sure that it gets answered.

As you pointed out, radonc is a mix of both technology and medicine, but I would say that it's really the tech-y-ness that attracts most of us to it. On a given day, I do approximately equal amounts of direct patient care and treatment planning (including consults, on-treatment visits, and followups). Different docs have different setups, depending on whether they have PAs, etc.

Truthfully, I really enjoy the treatment planning process, and particularly the contouring. I have only recently come to understand that I am in the minority in this regard. To me, it's challenging, but in the end very stylistic. It's a thought-provoking process where you often have to weigh control of disease versus respecting normal structure tolerances. Other techniques like rapid arc, tomo, protons, SABR/SRS, and brachytherapy planning give you a lot of variety. If I didn't like the treatment planning and was just looking to maximize patient interaction, I don't think I would have gone into this field.

 

[lazers]

Thanks for joining the thread I was hoping to hear what other residents had to say about the questions I had never heard of radonc prior to medical school and would've definitely liked to hear about it earlier in my career.

 

[EnginrTheFuture]

I just wanted to say... This thresh is awesome and I really appreciate it. I check in every day now Thanks.

 

[kaleerkalut]

Thanks for joining the thread I was hoping to hear what other residents had to say about the questions I had never heard of radonc prior to medical school and would've definitely liked to hear about it earlier in my career.

Thanks for your input. How much radiation exposure would you say a RadOnc gets and what aspects of RadOnc contribute the most to this exposure (ie. brachytherapy, stereotactic surgery, etc.)?

Also, do you get radiation exposure from being in the room with the patient after therapy (maybe sounds dumb)? TIA

 

[thesauce]

Thanks for your input. How much radiation exposure would you say a RadOnc gets and what aspects of RadOnc contribute the most to this exposure (ie. brachytherapy, stereotactic surgery, etc.)?

From the RadOnc forum FAQ:

Isn't all that radiation exposure bad for you?
Well if I decided to see my on-treatment patients WHILE THE MACHINE WAS ON, this might be a problem. But you see, state and federal regulatory agencies have this "thing" about necessarily irradiating bystanders near treatment vaults. You know that most treatment machines are in the basement right? Well if Uncle Joe was buying a gift for his niece in the gift shop, I don't think he would appreciate being irradiated with the 2.12 Gy that Ms. Sullivan was recieving downstairs. So we have lead and concrete shielding, and massive vault doors made of borated polyethylene to prevent just such incidents. Also, the radiation therapists are the ones who actually operate the machines and position the patients giving you another "layer" of protection. Finally we all wear dosimetry film badges which are carefully audited for exposure. All in all I would say we actually have significantly LESS exposure then fields like interventional cards/rads where they use radiation with fluoroscopic abandon.

You could potentially get more exposure if you're doing a ton of LDR brachy. We do a couple a month and the amount of exposure doesn't register on our TLD badge at all. Stereotactic radiosurgery is a form of external beam radiation therapy, so you don't get any exposure from that.

Also, do you get radiation exposure from being in the room with the patient after therapy (maybe sounds dumb)? TIA

Theoretically, you could get a tiny, tiny bit if they had just gotten LDR brachy (permanent seed implant), but in no other case will your patient be "radioactive" after treatment. They did a study at WashU where they put dosimeters on everyone in the household including pets and their conclusion was that the exposure was safe.

 

[NewYorker9]

Why did you choose to go into radiation oncology?

Why not medical oncology or another cancer specialty?

Do you think there is a certain personality or set of traits common to radiation oncologists?

Thanks!

 

[Twinnering]

It was mentioned before that the tier of the medical school you attend is important for RadOnc (and other competitive specialities..), so do you advocate going to the more prestigious/higher ranked school that is more expensive as opposed to a state school that is less prestigious (yet has a RadOnc department)?

What is the average number of publications for successful candidates who match into RadOnc?

Were you able to match in the location you preferred?

 

[AsianPersuasion]

Thank you for the thread.

May I ask what year you are, and what do you consider to be the most interesting or complex case that you have came across so far?

I am very interested in radonc, and had the opportunity to job shadow a physician and came across a glioblastoma. That was what sparked my interest in the field.

 

[syoung]

I have heard stories where oncologists, when asked if they had cancer and if they would take their own chemotherapy drugs, that they would say no. Because of the toxicity and low percents of survival (depending on cancer of course).

DO you feel this way with RadOnc and the treatment/therapy? Is it efficacious in large #s of patients? Are the side effects as bad as chemo? Would you undergo it or recommend family members to go through Radiation?

 

[thesauce]

Why did you choose to go into radiation oncology?

For me, it was the mix of physics and medicine. I studied chemical engineering in undergrad and really enjoy the technical aspects of treatment planning. I tested out every field that I could and I kept coming back to radonc.

Why not medical oncology or another cancer specialty?

The fields are very different in terms of the skill-set of physicians and what the work actually entails. I like the geometric challenge of targeting tumors as opposed to the systemic treatment approach. And of course there are lifestyle factors such as home call and inpatient management.

As for surgical oncology - I've just never been a big fan of surgery.

Do you think there is a certain personality or set of traits common to radiation oncologists?

Thanks!

Sort of touched on this, but I would say that that most enjoy the highly technical nature of the work.

 

[thesauce]

It was mentioned before that the tier of the medical school you attend is important for RadOnc (and other competitive specialities..), so do you advocate going to the more prestigious/higher ranked school that is more expensive as opposed to a state school that is less prestigious (yet has a RadOnc department)?

This is a great question and not one that's easy to answer. I would never recommend that a student choose their school based on who has the best program for XYZ, largely because most students change their mind, but also because programs (especially small programs like most in radonc) can go south quickly.

My advice: go to the school that you will be happiest at. I can't stress this enough from my own personal experience. Life is too short to keep planning for the next phase. First and foremost is your happiness. Now, if you are truly split between 2 schools, go to the cheaper if it's more than a $10k/yr difference.

What is the average number of publications for successful candidates who match into RadOnc?

I don't know about number of publications, specifically, but the "mean number of abstracts, presentations, and publications for matched U.S. seniors in 2011 was 8.3" (http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf)

Were you able to match in the location you preferred?

Yes!!!

 

[thesauce]

Thank you for the thread.

May I ask what year you are, and what do you consider to be the most interesting or complex case that you have came across so far?

I am very interested in radonc, and had the opportunity to job shadow a physician and came across a glioblastoma. That was what sparked my interest in the field.

It's hard to pick just one. Right now I would say it was probably one of my re-irradiation cases with a recurrence right next to the brainstem. She did fine and is 1.5 years out.

Edit: Missed your other question: I'm a PGY-3

 

[thesauce]

I have heard stories where oncologists, when asked if they had cancer and if they would take their own chemotherapy drugs, that they would say no. Because of the toxicity and low percents of survival (depending on cancer of course).

DO you feel this way with RadOnc and the treatment/therapy? Is it efficacious in large #s of patients? Are the side effects as bad as chemo? Would you undergo it or recommend family members to go through Radiation?

Great question. I would say that "it depends."

There are some particularly difficult radiation treatments such as head and neck cancer where the toxicities are significant, but the success is very high. Then there are others, such as in GBM, where the toxicity isn't too bad, but the treatment isn't particularly successful either (although there are some long-term survivors and radiation is really the only "potentially curative" modality). In both of these scenarios, I would take the radiation.

If I have widely metastatic disease and am choosing whether or not to do radiation on a bunch of sites that aren't causing me any problems, are not going affect my functional ability or prognosis, and might cause toxicity, then no - I don't want it.

I'm probably going to get lynched by the medoncs here, but I would say that, in my experience, radiation side effects are generally not as bad as chemo. Of course this is a generalization, and it depends on both the chemo and where (anatomically) the radiation is being delivered.

 

[Twinnering]

Thanks for answering my questions, I have a few more if you don't mind

How does coming up with a treatment plan work as a RadOnc? For instance, I know it was said you work with a physicist, so it is largely that you come with a diagnosis and then defer to the physicist? Or do you get more autonomy?

What do you believe really made you successful candidate, and allowed you to match in the location you preferred? How did your Step 1 compare, if you don't mind?

I have heard the field is largely academic, which is something that draws me in. Do you have a particular year set aside for research, like I know some fields already have them built in? Are you encouraged towards research in any particular avenue, such as basic, clinical, or even on the technologies themselves?

 

[Twinnering]

Oops, my bad. Double post on my phone. Ignore this one.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

Thanks for the response thesauce.

As some of the other poster have voiced already, I too am concerned about the fact that the medical school I plan to attend ( I have an assured acceptance if I keep my grades and MCAT score to their standard) which is my state medical school, does not have a Radonc program, but the hospital that is affiliated with the medical school has a radonc department.

How do you suggest I approach that? I'm not too familiar with whether or not any of the attending participates in any research, but I can always find out.

Would I be better off aiming high and try to obtain acceptance to a medical school that has their own radonc program? I live in the northeast, so it's pretty competitive and there's only two in my state. The thing is I would definitely save tremendous amount of money if I attend my state's medical school.

 

[thesauce]

Thanks for answering my questions, I have a few more if you don't mind

How does coming up with a treatment plan work as a RadOnc? For instance, I know it was said you work with a physicist, so it is largely that you come with a diagnosis and then defer to the physicist? Or do you get more autonomy?

You see the patient and decide whether they need radiation. If they do, you come up with a radiation treatment plan with the aid of a dosimetrist, and then hand it off to physics for Q.A. (calibrating the machines, etc).

What do you believe really made you successful candidate, and allowed you to match in the location you preferred? How did your Step 1 compare, if you don't mind?

I had a year of dedicated research which was very productive. I also had strong letters from some well-known faculty. My step 1 was exactly median for those that matched the year I applied. Now the median is higher.

I have heard the field is largely academic, which is something that draws me in. Do you have a particular year set aside for research, like I know some fields already have them built in? Are you encouraged towards research in any particular avenue, such as basic, clinical, or even on the technologies themselves?

Yes. We have a year of dedicated research built into our 4 years of residency. We are free to pursue our own interests. I am largely involved in clinical research.

 

[thesauce]

Thanks for the response thesauce.

As some of the other poster have voiced already, I too am concerned about the fact that the medical school I plan to attend ( I have an assured acceptance if I keep my grades and MCAT score to their standard) which is my state medical school, does not have a Radonc program, but the hospital that is affiliated with the medical school has a radonc department.

How do you suggest I approach that? I'm not too familiar with whether or not any of the attending participates in any research, but I can always find out.

Would I be better off aiming high and try to obtain acceptance to a medical school that has their own radonc program? I live in the northeast, so it's pretty competitive and there's only two in my state. The thing is I would definitely save tremendous amount of money if I attend my state's medical school.

Certainly get to know the folks at your hospital's radonc department early on. You might be able to write up a case report or review with one of them, if they are interested. Following first year, you can apply for a summer research fellowship at the NIH or another institution to pursue some radonc specific research. This could possibly transition into a long-term project. There are actually a couple radonc specific fellowships. I know of the the "Simon Kramer Society Externship in Radiation Oncology." There's one at WashU too, IIRC. Or you could try to set something up on your own.

From what I've seen, it is rare for the candidate to not match simply because they don't have their own home program. If you are an otherwise good candidate, you can usually find a spot in the match. My advice would be to save your money and go to your state school if you think you would be happy there. Excel and you will be in good shape.

 

[The Buff OP]

If you want to be a pediatric rad onc do you need to do a fellowship or regular rad onc residency covers it all?

 

[doctorally]

I got accepted into the early acceptance program to medical school. I will be attending that university in the fall for pre-med, majoring in biomedical sciences.

Is there any major you recommend a pre-med student to take to help with radiation oncology?

The school I'm attending isn't known to be a prestigious college. It's a state school. Do you think attending medical school at this state school hurt my chances in getting into residency? There is a radiation oncology program at the school, but the med school only has about 70 students per class and last year was the first year they had someone go into radiation oncology for residency.

 

[Guero]

I got accepted into the early acceptance program to medical school. I will be attending that university in the fall for pre-med, majoring in biomedical sciences.

Is there any major you recommend a pre-med student to take to help with radiation oncology?

The school I'm attending isn't known to be a prestigious college. It's a state school. Do you think attending medical school at this state school hurt my chances in getting into residency? There is a radiation oncology program at the school, but the med school only has about 70 students per class and last year was the first year they had someone go into radiation oncology for residency.

As has been said time and time again, worry about doing well in undergrad; then worry about doing well in med school. Don't even begin to seriously think about what you intend to pursue as a specialty until you're at least past your first year of med school, perferably your third year. So much will change in the interim. Very few people actually pursue their initial preferences.

Anyway, to answer your question regarding the state med shcool, your step scores, grades, and letters of rec far outweigh a school's "name" or prestige.

 

[thesauce]

I got accepted into the early acceptance program to medical school. I will be attending that university in the fall for pre-med, majoring in biomedical sciences.

Is there any major you recommend a pre-med student to take to help with radiation oncology?

The school I'm attending isn't known to be a prestigious college. It's a state school. Do you think attending medical school at this state school hurt my chances in getting into residency? There is a radiation oncology program at the school, but the med school only has about 70 students per class and last year was the first year they had someone go into radiation oncology for residency.

Congrats on your acceptance. Major in whatever interests you. You will have formal teaching in Radbio and radiation physics in residency if you end up in radonc. Institutional prestige does matter for residency, but I think the premier programs are beginning to become more "accepting" of those from mid-tier schools. The fact that you have a home program is huge.

 

[doctorally]

As has been said time and time again, worry about doing well in undergrad; then worry about doing well in med school. Don't even begin to seriously think about what you intend to pursue as a specialty until you're at least past your first year of med school, perferably your third year. So much will change in the interim. Very few people actually pursue their initial preferences.

Anyway, to answer your question regarding the state med shcool, your step scores, grades, and letters of rec far outweigh a school's "name" or prestige.

Congrats on your acceptance. Major in whatever interests you. You will have formal teaching in Radbio and radiation physics in residency if you end up in radonc. Institutional prestige does matter for residency, but I think the premier programs are beginning to become more "accepting" of those from mid-tier schools. The fact that you have a home program is huge.

Thank you so much for replying!

 

[thesauce]

As has been said time and time again, worry about doing well in undergrad; then worry about doing well in med school. Don't even begin to seriously think about what you intend to pursue as a specialty until you're at least past your first year of med school, perferably your third year. So much will change in the interim. Very few people actually pursue their initial preferences.

Anyway, to answer your question regarding the state med shcool, your step scores, grades, and letters of rec far outweigh a school's "name" or prestige.

Radonc is a little unique in several respects. First, it isn't a required rotation so an early interest may be the only way you are ever going to be exposed to it. Second, radonc-specific research is an absolute must for this field, so if you wait until after 3rd year to decide on radonc, it's going to be tough to get enough research to be competitive. A huge number of students do a year off if not a PhD. Thirdly, it's a small field and many schools don't have a program at all. In those situations, it's even more important to actively pursue it early so you can make connections with other programs and get LORs.

 

[Guero]

Radonc is a little unique in several respects. First, it isn't a required rotation so an early interest may be the only way you are ever going to be exposed to it. Second, radonc-specific research is an absolute must for this field, so if you wait until after 3rd year to decide on radonc, it's going to be tough to get enough research to be competitive. A huge number of students do a year off if not a PhD. Thirdly, it's a small field and many schools don't have a program at all. In those situations, it's even more important to actively pursue it early so you can make connections with other programs and get LORs.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarifications, thesauce.

 

[candacita]

Hi there,

What kind of math is involved, simple calculations, complex, logs. Math isn't my favorite subject.

Also, I love the weekly tumor boards that we have at our medical center, is this something that only occurs at teaching institutions or could a community rad-onc doc have these daily as well?

Thanks a bunch!

 

[sliceofbread136]

If someone was looking for a medical field where they could put more advanced math/engineering principles into practice would you say rad onc is an option? I've seen some math/engineering stuff in things like CT guided tumor irradiation, but I dont know how common it is in general.

 

[thesauce]

It wasn't my intention to hijack this thread, but I want to make sure your questions get answered...

Hi there,

What kind of math is involved, simple calculations, complex, logs. Math isn't my favorite subject.

Also, I love the weekly tumor boards that we have at our medical center, is this something that only occurs at teaching institutions or could a community rad-onc doc have these daily as well?

Thanks a bunch!

On a day to day basis it's just simple math, if any. For your physics boards, you'll definitely need to know exponents and logs.

The vast majority of medical centers have tumor boards. They are generally not daily, except at major medical centers. However, if you're a radonc at a major center like that, you'll probably focus on one or two treatment sites and just go to the tumor boards associated with those. Every radonc that I know attends tumor boards.

 

[thesauce]

If someone was looking for a medical field where they could put more advanced math/engineering principles into practice would you say rad onc is an option? I've seen some math/engineering stuff in things like CT guided tumor irradiation, but I dont know how common it is in general.

Absolutely. This field attracts a lot of engineers and physicists. It may not be required on a day-to-day basis, but there are opportunities to use those skills.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Absolutely. This field attracts a lot of engineers and physicists. It may not be required on a day-to-day basis, but there are opportunities to use those skills.

Cool, thanks! I might look further into the field.

 

[candacita]

Thanks for answering my last question.

My interest in the field peaked very late in third year. I'm hesitant to take a year off to do research, but would definitely do it if it was ultimately my only option. Is doing research during a prelim year before applying a possibility?

 

[IslandStyle808]

My question is similar to candacita. Is it really vital to take at least a year off to do research or can one do research during medical schools years 1-2 and get in by the normal 4 year track?

 

[thesauce]

Thanks for answering my last question.

My interest in the field peaked very late in third year. I'm hesitant to take a year off to do research, but would definitely do it if it was ultimately my only option. Is doing research during a prelim year before applying a possibility?

That would be very difficult at most prelims. First, you'd have to finish some research before applying for it to have any impact, so you really have to get it done in the first 3 months or so. You would have to make connections with the radonc department in close proximity to that prelim immediately after matching for this to even be a possibility. Then you would have to finish the project while working 80hr weeks. Not impossible, but very unlikely.

Why are you so hesitant to take a year off?

 

[thesauce]

My question is similar to candacita. Is it really vital to take at least a year off to do research or can one do research during medical schools years 1-2 and get in by the normal 4 year track?

It's very possible to match without a research year. Most who match do not take a year off.

 

[HriRish]

It's very possible to match without a research year. Most who match do not take a year off.

How much research is needed? Would doing research in the summers between M1 and M2 and M2 and M3 be enough, or would a year long research commitment be advisable? Also, how is residency? Could you fathom having a SO during residency? How are the employment prospects/pay for residents once they complete the program? Hard numbers? Thanks!

 

[Ansar]

How's the research like? Is it very Physics intense or is that research left to the medical physicists?? Since I guess you work in hospitals (as opposed to private practice), do you always have some research going on the side? Have you ever had any undergrads inquire about working?

I'm currently a Physics major, and due to not-so-high GPA, will end up applying at the end of senior year. Obviously this varies by PI, but do you think it'd be pointless/wasting my time to ask if it's possible to join a research group in radiation oncology to do research during that year? One of the reasons radiation oncology (and radiation, in general) interests me is because of it's higher-than-usual use/requirement of knowledge of physics.

Thanks,
Ansar

 

[tiedyeddog]

I am going to do a rad onc elective during 3rd year. I am not interested in it as a career but rad onc seemed like an interesting field to me.

Any tips on doing well and impressing the residents and attendings?

 

[The Buff OP]

BTW Thanks for ignoring my question, Sauce.

 

[thesauce]

If you want to be a pediatric rad onc do you need to do a fellowship or regular rad onc residency covers it all?

BTW Thanks for ignoring my question, Sauce.

LOL. Just for you:

No, you do not. After some thinking, I can't come up with a single pediatric radonc attending that did a fellowship. I know they're out there - I just don't know them. It may help to get a faculty position at a top institution, but in no way would be required.

 

[candacita]

That would be very difficult at most prelims. First, you'd have to finish some research before applying for it to have any impact, so you really have to get it done in the first 3 months or so. You would have to make connections with the radonc department in close proximity to that prelim immediately after matching for this to even be a possibility. Then you would have to finish the project while working 80hr weeks. Not impossible, but very unlikely.

Why are you so hesitant to take a year off?

My hesitance is related to another year in the training timeline, another year of loans, all my buddies would move on and away (I know lame excuse). My thought was to start a lot of research this year (my fourth), only apply to prelims, and have plenty of publications ready to go by the end of prelim year, maybe even a presentation or two. I have no idea about this application process, so I apologize if I sound completely random. Just trying to gather thoughts and options.

Thanks again!

 

[The Buff OP]

LOL. Just for you:

No, you do not. After some thinking, I can't come up with a single pediatric radonc attending that did a fellowship. I know they're out there - I just don't know them. It may help to get a faculty position at a top institution, but in no way would be required.

Gracias.

 

[thesauce]

How much research is needed? Would doing research in the summers between M1 and M2 and M2 and M3 be enough, or would a year long research commitment be advisable? Also, how is residency? Could you fathom having a SO during residency? How are the employment prospects/pay for residents once they complete the program? Hard numbers? Thanks!

As much research as possible. 2-3 publications would make you competitive. The summer between M1 and M2 is a good time to get started. You don't typically have a summer between M2 and M3. A year of dedicated research always looks good, but isn't usually necessary.

Radonc residency is a dream. Typically 8-5 with no weekends. Occasional home call. Some residencies are more intense than others. Every resident in my program is married.

There are always jobs in mid and small-sized communities. Big cities are typically harder to crack (depending on the city). The radonc forum FAQ has some of the other information you're looking for (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=674353).

 

[thesauce]

How's the research like? Is it very Physics intense or is that research left to the medical physicists?? Since I guess you work in hospitals (as opposed to private practice), do you always have some research going on the side? Have you ever had any undergrads inquire about working?

There are a lot of different kinds of research going on. Bench and clinical including radiation biology and radiation physics related. I do mostly clinical research, but have done bench research in the past.

Most radoncs work in private practice. Some in hospitals and some in free standing centers (I would guess half and half). I always have numerous projects going on as do all of my attendings (because I'm at an academic program). We've had numerous undergrads work on projects with us.

I'm currently a Physics major, and due to not-so-high GPA, will end up applying at the end of senior year. Obviously this varies by PI, but do you think it'd be pointless/wasting my time to ask if it's possible to join a research group in radiation oncology to do research during that year? One of the reasons radiation oncology (and radiation, in general) interests me is because of it's higher-than-usual use/requirement of knowledge of physics.

Thanks,
Ansar

You could probably find an opportunity to do radonc research at this stage if you really sought it out. I don't think it would be a waste of your time. It's never too early to check out the field.

 

[thesauce]

I am going to do a rad onc elective during 3rd year. I am not interested in it as a career but rad onc seemed like an interesting field to me.

Any tips on doing well and impressing the residents and attendings?

Just showing up on time with an eager "can do" attitude is enough. Be sure and try some treatment planning.

 

[thesauce]

My hesitance is related to another year in the training timeline, another year of loans, all my buddies would move on and away (I know lame excuse). My thought was to start a lot of research this year (my fourth), only apply to prelims, and have plenty of publications ready to go by the end of prelim year, maybe even a presentation or two. I have no idea about this application process, so I apologize if I sound completely random. Just trying to gather thoughts and options.

Thanks again!

I see. Those are all very legitimate concerns. Just try and remember that this is a marathon and not a race. My year off was the best year of my life and I wouldn't trade it for anything. It gave me a fresh perspective on what was important to me and set me up for a bright future. And although I did lose touch with some of my friends, I gained many more.

Sure, it would be nice to be entering my last year right now, but I really doubt that in the middle of my career that I will be wishing I was "+1."