Aspiring Surgeon

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ftbllstd79

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Does anyone know if there is some kind of activity that helps build the dexterity and coordination required for surgury.
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I dont think they test that when you apply for surgery residency.
 
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forget about it and do something fun like play guitar. then you'll be having fun instead of worrying about doing bilateral carotid pheochromosoectomactical release surgery, but still actually building manual dexterity which will come in handy for many other things in life as well.

that or coloring books, but you have to stay in the lines to be a surgeon.
 
ftbllstd79 said:
Does anyone know if there is some kind of activity that helps build the dexterity and coordination required for surgury.
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You can always practice on yourself. There are so many nerves and veins in your foot, you could probably spare a few. It helps if you have your own autoclave and your own stash of betadine. Only wimps (= future family med doctors) would try to anesthetize the skin before making the incision.

And watch M*A*S*H. Lots and lots of episodes of M*A*S*H.

[/sarcasm]

Seriously - just get through the first couple of years of med school. Worry about this kind of stuff later.

Oh, and PLEASE - just because you want to be a surgeon does NOT mean that you should act like anatomy lab is the operating room. It's not. So don't go all scapel-happy on your cadaver, because you'll probably cut out something important and your lab mates will want to kill you. Just use blunt dissection like everyone else, and all will go much smoother.
 
I've heard that in a study, surgeons playing videogames got 10 percent better results.
 
Physician, heal thyself. Often, and ambidextrously.
 
What is the deal with people wanting to become surgeons before residency? I would think getting into medical school and worrying about the crazy studying for USMLE's and classes, then rotations would be enough. No, people are looking to pick up hobbies. Video games, that's all you need.
 
Dex +2 for DaVinci systems? :thumbup:
 
so when Halo 3 comes out, I can put time a side to "study" by playing Halo... Sweet!
 
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I guess this all relies on the assumption that surgeons need beyond a healthy/normal amount of dexterity to be good? I don't know since i havent entered med school yet but i've always wondered if the need to have exceptional manual dexterity is overrated in surgeons..i mean afterall, how much of a standard deviation for a skill like that exists in the population? i'd guess that being a good surgeon involves a much wider ranger of skills w dexterity accounting for a small portion of that..thoughts?
 
Um surgeries? Seriously though you will not be working much on your technique until residency. Your med school surgery experience will pretty much be "stand there and retract for the next 5 hours."
 
Read "Complications" by Atul Gawande about his experiences as a surgical resident.
 
Play minesweeper for hand eye coordination. Knit for fine motor skills.
 
yalla22 said:
I guess this all relies on the assumption that surgeons need beyond a healthy/normal amount of dexterity to be good? I don't know since i havent entered med school yet but i've always wondered if the need to have exceptional manual dexterity is overrated in surgeons..i mean afterall, how much of a standard deviation for a skill like that exists in the population? i'd guess that being a good surgeon involves a much wider ranger of skills w dexterity accounting for a small portion of that..thoughts?
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Maybe. One of the surgeons at my school said that, over the years, she's only had one student who really lacked even the basic hand-eye coordination necessary to be a decent surgeon. She says that 99% of med students can be taught the dexterity needed to be a good surgeon.
 
a good surgery training program can teach a monkey to operate. what makes a good surgeon doesn't have to do with dexterity. seriously, while it might seem like a good idea to "play surgeon" go out and enjoy your life and do something fun. chances are you won't even want to be a surgeon when it comes around to putting in your match list.
 
learn to tie knots quickly and consistently. use both hands to do daily activities so you build dexterity in both.

or you could just do nothing. you're likely to get yelled at either way so your pick.
 
I've also heard the video game thing, it makes sense that its developing hand eye coordination. I'm a crafty chick and knit and spent vast amounts of time making elaborate friendship bracelets as a teen and both really made learning to throw knots quickly and accurately very easy, the motion felt natural to my hands already. I don't think any of this is really that big a deal in the grand scheme of things but at least it gives me an excuse for how all my study breaks are really productive.
 
Play Nintendo.
But watch out for Nin-tendonitis.
 
The best preparation for a surgery residency is to find a place on the wall and bang your head repeatedly until you develop a bleeding wound.

To prepare for surgery M&M find a scratchy object, lube, and insert into any available orifice.

If you mean the actual surgerical procedures, have several people you know say over and over that you perform surgery like a anencephalic monkey while you balance on a tight rope blindfolded.

Seriously, the best thing you can do to prepare is learn medicine. If you know how to diagnose and treat you will be fine. (Oh, and maybe learn how to tie knots that will really impress people) but don't waste time on anything else.
 
RockShox said:
To prepare for surgery M&M find a scratchy object, lube, and insert into any available orifice.
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My friend told me that, at his school, they just shove it in there. If they let you use lube, that's pretty humane of them.

Maybe that's just in neurosurgery, though.
 
ftbllstd79 said:
Does anyone know if there is some kind of activity that helps build the dexterity and coordination required for surgury.
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gaming!! Really, there are articles on this. Almost assuredly someone's brought it up already. I'm a badass gamer but I will not touch surgery with a ten foot pole
 
Shredder said:
gaming!! Really, there are articles on this. Almost assuredly someone's brought it up already.
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Sure...read posts 9-22 above.

It helps, but the effect is not long-lasting. I for one, never played video games, but it doesn't take long to learn how to move laparoscopic tools in the direction you want.
 
ftbllstd79 said:
Does anyone know if there is some kind of activity that helps build the dexterity and coordination required for surgury.
Click to expand...

You should've started at age 15 like that kid in India. You are probably too old to learn such precise skills.
 
I'm not a med student yet but this forum caught my eye because I teach experimental microsurgery... aside from the obvious benefits videogames and actually doing surgery present, I would say that trying to challenge your fine hand motor skills with everyday tasks can help you. Like, eating your spagetti with your left hand instead of right, or cutting a steak with the opposite hand. If you have a microscope handy, the first basic step in microsurgery training is to scratch the toner off printed text using the tip of a blade... so without cutting anything open, you can practice some directly translateable skills!
 
greg567 said:
If you have a microscope handy, the first basic step in microsurgery training is to scratch the toner off printed text using the tip of a blade... so without cutting anything open, you can practice some directly translateable skills!
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Yeah - I'll get right on that with my summer break. :rolleyes:
 
ftbllstd79 said:
Does anyone know if there is some kind of activity that helps build the dexterity and coordination required for surgury.
Click to expand...

If you really wanted to be a surgeon, I'd start by learning how to spell surgery. You might lose credibility. Sorry dude, I couldn't resist :p I asked the chief of surgery about dexterity and coordination and he said it's not really required - being a good surgeon can be learned. He further said that everyone is pretty much in the same boat when it comes to dexterity and coordination. I'm sure you'll be just fine. :luck:
 
Everyone is so caught up on the video game thing, youre forgetting the most important one...playing "Operation"! :D
 
Fly fishing and fly tying will help with your knot-tying dexterity...not my reason for doing it, but I guess it's something to do between your bimanual healing sessions
 
Agent Splat said:
forget about it and do something fun like play guitar. then you'll be having fun instead of worrying about doing bilateral carotid pheochromosoectomactical release surgery, but still actually building manual dexterity which will come in handy for many other things in life as well.

that or coloring books, but you have to stay in the lines to be a surgeon.
Click to expand...


the guitar ideas seems cool,, but colouring books reminds me of KG :p:D
 
You'd be better served learning how to get up at 4:00 in the morning, building up thick skin for when you get screamed at by angry surgeons, and learn to build up your endurance for holding retractors.
 
Become really good at guitar. Both lefty and righty.
 
Kimberli Cox said:
Sure...read posts 9-22 above.

It helps, but the effect is not long-lasting. I for one, never played video games, but it doesn't take long to learn how to move laparoscopic tools in the direction you want.
Click to expand...

Nah, it depends on how good you are at video games. Hmm wonder if that means FataL1Ty would be a good surgeon lol.

Honestly though, the most serious gamers out there already have tens of thousands of hours of insane practice in, so it'd take a while to catch up to that same level of precision.

I'm not that hardcore, but man, some of the gamers I've seen are insane with how precisely they can manipulate stuff.

Of course, anybody that hardcore of a gamer probably doesn't have the grades to be a surgeon =(
 
Cirrus83 said:
Nah, it depends on how good you are at video games. Hmm wonder if that means FataL1Ty would be a good surgeon lol.

Honestly though, the most serious gamers out there already have tens of thousands of hours of insane practice in, so it'd take a while to catch up to that same level of precision.

I'm not that hardcore, but man, some of the gamers I've seen are insane with how precisely they can manipulate stuff.

Of course, anybody that hardcore of a gamer probably doesn't have the grades to be a surgeon =(
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Perhaps, but speaking from experience, I was no less or more fumbly when learning laparoscopic procedures than my colleagues who played video games extensively. Good hand-eye coordination is necessary, but the skill set in laparoscopic surgery is not necessarily the same as that of a hard core gamer.

Nevertheless, it can't hurt to play games, (although obviously you don't want to indulge so much you damage your grades) although the learning curve, while steep (especially for some procedures, like lap gastric bypass) is not insurmountable, and I would test my skills against any hard core gamer, any day.
 
Obviously the best game to play would be trauma center on the Wii
 
I had a plastic surgeon say that excellent manual dexterity (and attention to detail) was important for plastic surgery. Same for Ophthalmic surgery.

I play the piano and am pretty good with a pencil (drawing). I'm not sure if it'll help me or not, but for now I will pretend that it will.
 
lilnoelle said:
I had a plastic surgeon say that excellent manual dexterity (and attention to detail) was important for plastic surgery. Same for Ophthalmic surgery.

I play the piano and am pretty good with a pencil (drawing). I'm not sure if it'll help me or not, but for now I will pretend that it will.
Click to expand...

Anything that involves microvascular or other very small repairs (like Plastics and Ophtho) does depend on a steady hand, good hand to eye coordination and attention to detail.

Keep practicing the piano and your drawing skills...at the very least you can get a job as a busker in the subway! ;)
 
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