Association of Anesthesiologist Staffing Ratio With Surgical Patient Morbidity and Mortality

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

anbuitachi

Full Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
7,465
Reaction score
4,144

Some of you doing high coverage ratios may be providing worse care.

Be ready for the lawsuits. Better get consent for concurrency preop

Members don't see this ad.
 

Some of you doing high coverage ratios may be providing worse care.

Be ready for the lawsuits. Better get consent for concurrency preop

I can't access the full text of the article but it is a noble quest to try to quantify something like that. On the plus side they used a large volume of cases. On the downside, you are talking about risk adjusted odds which gets a little iffy when spread across 23 different hospitals when trying to draw conclusions about relative risk ratios that are so minorly different. 5.06% vs 5.25% vs 5.75%.

It's hard to know exactly what to make of that since you are looking at different hospitals and different surgeons and different patient populations over a long duration of time. Definitely not "be ready for the lawsuits" time. I mean what's the lawsuit, my family member had a 0.19% increased risk of the complication that happened?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I can't access the full text of the article but it is a noble quest to try to quantify something like that. On the plus side they used a large volume of cases. On the downside, you are talking about risk adjusted odds which gets a little iffy when spread across 23 different hospitals when trying to draw conclusions about relative risk ratios that are so minorly different. 5.06% vs 5.25% vs 5.75%.

It's hard to know exactly what to make of that since you are looking at different hospitals and different surgeons and different patient populations over a long duration of time. Definitely not "be ready for the lawsuits" time. I mean what's the lawsuit, my family member had a 0.19% increased risk of the complication that happened?
Not disclosing increased risk. If patient had known they would've chosen a different physician or location? Also

Compared with patients in group 1-2, those in group 2-3 had a 4% relative increase in risk-adjusted mortality and morbidity (5.06% vs 5.25%; adjusted odds ratio [AOR], 1.04; 95% CI, 1.01-1.08; P = .02) and those in group 3-4 had a 14% increase in risk-adjusted mortality and morbidity (5.06% vs 5.75%; AOR, 1.15; 95% CI, 1.09-1.21; P < .001).
 
Members don't see this ad :)

Some of you doing high coverage ratios may be providing worse care.

Be ready for the lawsuits. Better get consent for concurrency preop
They know they are providing worse care. Unfortunately that is the system we've built and/or started working in.

Most supervision jobs you sign charts and run to pre-op, post-op, place blocks, and hope nothing happens in the meantime while mediocre nurses "provide anesthesia". Many of us would never tolerate the anesthesia being provided to patients under our care by those CRNAs if it were our family member, and yet we stay quiet. Why? It's the system. Just like nurses should have fixed ratios, so should anesthesiologists. Once complexity of case or ASA status goes up, that ratio should be lowered even further. We all know this and yet are afraid to say it out loud.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 15 users
Not disclosing increased risk.

do any of us have any idea what the exact risk of any complication is for a procedure we do? Like what is that individuals precise risk of a stroke? What do you tell them when they ask you about the surgeon who isn't the one you would choose for yourself? Do you say they are a hack that you wouldn't let operate on you or do you simply smile and say you are sure they will do a good job and you carry on with your day?

In our practice the intensity of the case is reflected in our staffing ratios. They vary based on how easy the work is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I can only see the abstract, but these are VERY small absolute differences that are statistically significant primarily because of a very large N. I also cannot tell what, exactly, is included in morbidity. The "morbidity and mortality" is a composite variable composed of things we care about (e.g., mortality) and a bunch of things we might not care about. I'm sure in the full text, they parse out whether individual components of the composite are, individually, significantly different. If I can get ahold of that and find something meaningful, I might find I feel differently. But, in general, this is a very capable and respected research group using a validated data set. Full disclosure: I'm in a supervisory setting, but with ratios of 2:1.
 
Last edited:
do any of us have any idea what the exact risk of any complication is for a procedure we do? Like what is that individuals precise risk of a stroke? What do you tell them when they ask you about the surgeon who isn't the one you would choose for yourself? Do you say they are a hack that you wouldn't let operate on you or do you simply smile and say you are sure they will do a good job and you carry on with your day?

In our practice the intensity of the case is reflected in our staffing ratios. They vary based on how easy the work is.
its different when there is a large study published in jama about it. we definitely do not know exact risk of everything. its the same as the peds paper. when it showed peds trained have better outcome, many hospitals started policy saying only pediatric anesthesiologists do kids under 2 or whatever cutoff it was. we probably knew before the paper that someone more trained, probably has better outcome... we just couldnt put a # to it
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
its different when there is a large study published in jama about it. we definitely do not know exact risk of everything. its the same as the peds paper. when it showed peds trained have better outcome, many hospitals started policy saying only pediatric anesthesiologists do kids under 2 or whatever cutoff it was. we probably knew before the paper that someone more trained, probably has better outcome... we just couldnt put a # to it
Haven’t seen that article. Can you link/provide a reference please?
 
I can only see the abstract, but these are VERY small absolute differences that are statistically significant primarily because of a very large N. I also cannot tell what, exactly, is included in morbidity. The "morbidity and mortality" is a composite variable composed of things we care about (e.g., mortality) and a bunch of things we might not care about. I'm sure in the full text, they parse out whether individual components of the composite are, individually, significantly different. If I can get ahold of that and find something meaningful, I might find I feel differently. But, in general, this is a very capable and respected research group using a validated data set. Full disclosure: I'm in a supervisory setting, but with ratios of 2:1.
I'd argue that if the signal were true, the increase from group 1 (5.06%) to group 3-4 (5.75%) is not that small even on an absolute basis. Anesthesia is both so extraordinarily safe and common nowadays that even absolute differences of ~1+% M&M should be taken seriously.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I'd argue that if the signal were true, the increase from group 1 (5.06%) to group 3-4 (5.75%) is not that small even on an absolute basis. Anesthesia is both so extraordinarily safe and common nowadays that even absolute differences of ~1+% M&M should be taken seriously.
they make the point in their discussion that in a typical major medical center doing 100K cases a year, that's 690 excess cases of "morbidity and mortality," which is, of course, compelling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
It all depends how much you can hustle. Of course it’s dangerous at times. You gotta pick and choose and divert time to more acute cases. But even 1:2 can change in a heartbeat as well.

As for the article itself. I haven’t had time to fully read it. Is there a direct link? It says “inpatient”. Does it me inpatient add on cases for acute care. Meaning 4 acute inpatient scheduled cases you are covering at the same time. That to me is extremely rare

Or do the me outpatient coming in to be admitted. Does that count as an inpatient? Say an elective hip replacement case to be admitted after surgery. Does that count as inpatient?
 
Here's the full text btw:

Original Investigation
July 20, 2022
Association of Anesthesiologist Staffing Ratio With Surgical Patient Morbidity and Mortality
Michael L. Burns, PhD, MD1; Leif Saager, Dr med, MMM2; Ruth B. Cassidy, MA1; et alGraciela Mentz, PhD1; George A. Mashour, MD, PhD1; Sachin Kheterpal, MD, MBA1
Author Affiliations Article Information
JAMA Surg. Published online July 20, 2022. doi:10.1001/jamasurg.2022.2804
editorial comment icon Editorial
Comment
author interview icon Interviews
Audio Author Interview (16:51)
Anesthesiologist Staffing Ratio and Surgical Patient Morbidity and Mortality
Backward 15 Play Forward 15
1x
0:00 / 0:00
Subscribe to Podcast
Key Points
Question Do overlapping anesthesiologist responsibilities increase the risks of morbidity and mortality for adults undergoing surgery with anesthesia?

Findings In this cohort study that used electronic health record registry data for 578 815 adult patients from 23 institutions, anesthesia care teams in which the anesthesiologist supervised 3 to 4 overlapping operations were associated with a 14% relative increase in composite risk-adjusted surgical patient morbidity and mortality, from 5.06% to 5.75%, compared with operations with an anesthesiologist covering between 1 and 2 overlapping operations.

Meaning This study’s findings suggest that increasing overlapping clinical responsibilities of a supervising anesthesiologist is associated with increased surgical patient morbidity and mortality.

Abstract
Importance Recent studies have investigated the effect of overlapping surgeon responsibilities or nurse to patient staffing ratios on patient outcomes, but the association of overlapping anesthesiologist responsibilities with patient outcomes remains unexplored to our knowledge.

Objective To examine the association between different levels of anesthesiologist staffing ratios and surgical patient morbidity and mortality.

Design, Setting, and Participants A retrospective, matched cohort study consisting of major noncardiac inpatient surgical procedures performed from January 1, 2010, to October 31, 2017, was conducted in 23 US academic and private hospitals. A total of 866 453 adult patients (aged ≥18 years) undergoing major inpatient surgery within the Multicenter Perioperative Outcomes Group electronic health record registry were included. Anesthesiologist sign-in and sign-out times were used to calculate a continuous time-weighted average staffing ratio variable for each operation. Propensity score–matching methods were applied to create balanced sample groups with respect to patient-, operative-, and hospital-level confounders and resulted in 4 groups based on anesthesiologist staffing ratio. Groups consisted of patients receiving care from an anesthesiologist covering 1 operation (group 1), more than 1 to no more than 2 overlapping operations (group 1-2), more than 2 to no more than 3 overlapping operations (group 2-3), and more than 3 to no more than 4 overlapping operations (group 3-4). Data analysis was performed from October 2019 to October 2021.

Exposure Undergoing a major inpatient surgical operation that involved an anesthesiologist providing care for up to 4 overlapping operations.

Main Outcomes and Measures The primary composite outcome was 30-day mortality and 6 major surgical morbidities (cardiac, respiratory, gastrointestinal, urinary, bleeding, and infectious complications) derived from International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision and International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems, Tenth Revision discharge diagnosis codes.

Results In all, 578 815 adult patients (mean [SD] age, 55.7 [16.2] years; 55.1% female) were analyzed. After matching operations according to anesthesiologist staffing ratio, 48 555 patients were in group 1; 247 057, group 1-2; 216 193, group 2-3; and 67 010, group 3-4. Increasing anesthesiologist coverage responsibilities was associated with an increase in risk-adjusted surgical patient morbidity and mortality. Compared with patients in group 1-2, those in group 2-3 had a 4% relative increase in risk-adjusted mortality and morbidity (5.06% vs 5.25%; adjusted odds ratio [AOR], 1.04; 95% CI, 1.01-1.08; P = .02) and those in group 3-4 had a 14% increase in risk-adjusted mortality and morbidity (5.06% vs 5.75%; AOR, 1.15; 95% CI, 1.09-1.21; P < .001).

Conclusions and Relevance This study’s findings suggest that increasing overlapping coverage by anesthesiologists is associated with increased surgical patient morbidity and mortality. Therefore, the potential effects of staffing ratios in perioperative team models should be considered in clinical coverage efforts.

Introduction
Overlapping responsibilities are common in anesthesiology practice, with services typically provided through clinical care teams. In this model, in-room anesthesia clinicians (certified registered nurse anesthetists [CRNAs], anesthesia assistants, or anesthesiology residents) are supervised by the anesthesiologist, who oversees multiple operations simultaneously. The ratio of anesthesiologists to the overlapping number of rooms they cover is their staffing ratio. Anesthesiology care team compositions have been studied extensively, with results suggesting no significant difference in care quality based on team composition,1,2 yet improved patient outcomes have been reported with increased anesthesiologist involvement.3 The effects of overlapping anesthesiologist clinical responsibilities on patients remain unknown. Cost reduction efforts often target high fixed-cost anesthesiology services, assuming that increased clinical responsibilities are noninferior to lower patient to anesthesiologist staffing ratios.1 Understanding the potential association with the quality of patient care is necessary to inform clinical care staffing decisions.

Although fundamental differences exist between medical specialties, and practice patterns have changed over time, research suggests that increased clinical responsibility is associated with decreased clinical care quality and poor patient outcomes. Elevated hospitalist workloads have been reported to result in admission and discharge delays, decreased care quality, and poor patient satisfaction.4,5 Surgeons have received substantial scrutiny of overlapping operative practices, raising concerns for patient safety.6 Although several studies7-9 found no adverse outcomes associated with overlapping operations, others10-12 found higher mortality, longer surgical duration, and higher postoperative complication rates in select patient subgroups. In the intensive care unit, intensivist workload requires overlapping care of critically ill patients. Greater intensivist involvement is associated with improved clinical outcomes,13 although no optimal intensivist to patient ratio has been established.14 Although 1 study15 found no association with mortality, studies consistently find that increasing clinical overlap may lead to poor patient outcomes,16 and a multidisciplinary task force has found that ratios below a critical threshold had a negative effect on education, staff well-being, and patient care.17 This study’s objective was to evaluate the association between anesthesiologist staffing ratios and surgical patient morbidity and mortality by using data from a national electronic health record registry.

Methods
Data
Data were derived from the Multicenter Perioperative Outcomes Group (MPOG) database,18 an electronic health records registry of operations during which an anesthesiologist was involved, gathered from hospitals in 18 states.19 Numerous perioperative outcome studies have used MPOG data.10,20 The study protocol—including inclusion criteria, primary outcome, and statistical analyses plan—was presented, approved, and registered by the MPOG research committee before data were accessed. This multicenter cohort study also received approval from the University of Michigan Medical School Institutional Review Board, which also waived informed consent because the study was based on the secondary use of health care data that were already collected for clinical and operational purposes. We followed the Strengthening the Reporting of Observational Studies in Epidemiology (STROBE) reporting guideline.21

Sample Selection
From the MPOG data set, all operations performed on patients aged 18 years or older between January 1, 2010, and October 31, 2017, were extracted. Data analysis was performed from October 2019 to October 2021. All operations were used to define the staffing ratio exposure variables. However, operations that commonly occurred with fixed staffing ratios were excluded from outcome analyses; the following types of surgical procedures were considered fixed staffing ratio operations: cardiac surgery, liver transplant, cataract removal, obstetric surgery (labor epidurals, cesarean delivery), and operations with resident involvement of more than 25% (typically fixed at a maximum staffing ratio of 1:2 because of reimbursement and educational limitations). Included operations consisted of those that involved anesthesiologist supervision of CRNAs and those with less than 25% resident involvement. Anesthesia care personally performed by an attending anesthesiologist, with no in-room CRNA or anesthesiology resident, is qualitatively different and was outside the scope of this analysis. No operations in which an anesthesia assistant was involved were included in this data set. Operations that occurred overnight or during weekends and holidays, which consisted of less than 4.3% of the original data set, were omitted from the primary analysis to increase the homogeneity of the analytical data set because the staffing model may have differed in these instances. Additional exclusions are listed in Figure 1. After exclusions were applied, a propensity score–matched cohort was created as described in the Statistical Analysis subsection.

Exposure
After sign-in and sign-out adjustments were made (eMethods 1 in the Supplement), overlapping assignments were quantified using attending anesthesiologist sign-in and sign-out times to calculate a single, time-weighted average staffing ratio for each operation. Specifically, operations were grouped by anesthesiologist, date, and time. Overlaps were identified using anesthesiologist transitions (sign-in and sign-out), and time-weighted averages of the individual staffing ratios were calculated as a continuous variable for each operation. For example, if the staffing ratios for a single 120-minute operation were 12 minutes at 1:2, 60 minutes at 1:3, and 48 minutes at 1:4, then the staffing ratio was calculated as [(2 × 12) + (3 × 60) + (4 × 48)]/120 = 3.3. For analysis, this primary exposure was divided into 4 distinct groups reflecting the discrete, modifiable staffing ratios: group 1 represents a staffing ratio of 1; group 1-2, a staffing ratio greater than 1 but no more than 2; group 2-3, a staffing ratio greater than 2 but no more than 3; group 3-4, a staffing ratio greater than 3 but no more than 4. We adjusted for additional variables, including Elixhauser comorbidities (a method of categorizing comorbidities of patients based on the International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision [ICD-9] and International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems, Tenth Revision [ICD-10] diagnosis codes found in health care and administrative data22), teaching institution status, and operative year. Race and ethnicity were not included in the adjustment because they were not observed to be different among the staffing ratio groups.

Outcome
The primary outcome was a composite of 6 major morbidities and 30-day mortality. Morbidities included cardiac, respiratory, gastrointestinal, urinary, bleeding, and infectious complications according to ICD-9 groupings, based on the US Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality’s single-level Clinical Classifications Software categories for ICD-9 diagnosis codes and manually cross-referenced to ICD-10 codes within MPOG.23 eMethods 2, eTable 1, and eTable 2 in the Supplement provide more detail.

Statistical Analysis
Preliminary exploratory data analysis techniques, such as frequency distribution, mean, median, quintile-quintile plots, and box plots, were used to assess the distribution of primary and secondary outcomes and all other variables. Conflicting data (multiple timed event documentation, mortality designation despite subsequent clinical documentation) were addressed using standard MPOG registry processes. Missing patterns and rates (<10%) were assessed, and complete case analysis was used. Two-sided statistical significance testing with a P < .05 threshold was performed. All statistical analyses were performed using SAS software, version 9.4 (SAS Institute Inc).

Propensity score matching based on an allowable absolute difference between, or a radius around, the propensity score with a tolerance of 0.01 was applied to create a sample that was more balanced with respect to patient and operative characteristics, including potential confounders. This was completed by means of a generalized SAS macro, which uses an algorithm to maximize the number of propensity score matches.24 First, continuous staffing ratios were divided into 4 groups as described in the Exposure subsection (groups 1, 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4). Variables included in the propensity score derivation model and used to calculate the likelihood of being in a particular staffing ratio group were age, sex, body mass index, American Society of Anesthesiologists (ASA) physical status (where 1 represents a healthy patient, 2 represents a patient with mild systemic disease, 3 represents a patient with severe systemic disease, and 4 represents a patient with severe systemic disease posing a constant threat to life), emergency status, anesthesia technique (including general anesthesia, peripheral block, or neuraxial block), number of Elixhauser comorbidities, type of operation according to anesthesia Current Procedural Terminology (CPT) code, surgical service category, anesthesia duration, and institution.

Before matching, surgical service categories were stratified as follows: general, gynecologic, neurologic, otolaryngologic, orthopedic, urologic, and vascular services. Surgical category contributions by anesthesiology CPT code can be found in eMethods 3 and eTable 3 in the Supplement. With the staffing ratio group indicator as the dependent variable, multivariable logistic regression models were implemented in a sequential modeling approach, in which propensity scores were estimated for 2 staffing ratio levels at a time using group 1-2 as the reference group. Operations were matched based on estimates of the propensity scores for group 1 vs group 1-2, group 1-2 vs group 2-3, and group 1-2 vs group 3-4. Once these 3 sets of matched pairs were completed, duplicates were removed and operations were divided into strata based on their corresponding match in the reference group (group 1-2). In the resulting matched data set, each operation in group 1-2 (the reference group) was matched to no more than 1 operation from each of the other staffing ratio groups (groups 1, 2-3, and 3-4). Some reference group operations could not be matched because of nonoverlapping propensity score distributions. Additional details on the list of covariates and the modeling strategy used to develop the propensity score model can be found in eMethods 4 in the Supplement.

Differences in distributions of confounders and covariates across the staffing ratio groups were analyzed via pairwise absolute standardized differences (Table 1 and Table 2). The association between staffing ratio and the collapsed composite was assessed using a multivariable conditional logistic regression model (ie, any complication vs none of 6 major morbidities or 30-day mortality). Measures with absolute standardized differences greater than 0.2 were included in the multivariable outcome model, resulting in adjustment for teaching institution status, anesthesia duration, and operative year. Additionally, age, sex, body mass index, ASA status, emergency status, anesthesia technique, number of Elixhauser comorbidities, anesthesia CPT code operative type, and surgical service category were included in the model to achieve doubly robust effect estimates. With the use of this model, adjusted odds ratios (AORs) and associated 95% CIs of the composite morbidity and mortality outcome were estimated for each staffing ratio group, with group 1-2 as the reference group.

To assess whether any single component might be associated with the results, the distribution and contribution of the separate outcome components were examined by the staffing ratio group. In addition, distribution of the outcome (eTable 2 in the Supplement) and the continuous staffing ratio were examined by institution (eMethods 5 and the eFigure in the Supplement).

Results
Study Population
From an initial data set of 3 624 399 operations, the staffing ratio was calculated for each operation. After exclusions were applied, the data set consisted of 866 453 operations during which 1960 anesthesiologists provided care in 23 distinct institutions (Figure 1). Propensity score matching then revealed similar operations for comparison among staffing ratio groups, resulting in a matched data set with 578 815 operations.

In this final sample of matched operations performed on 578 815 adult patients, 259 925 patients (44.9%) were male and 318 890 (55.1%) were female, the mean (SD) age was 55.7 (16.2) years, the mean (SD) body mass index (calculated as weight in kilograms divided by height in meters squared) was 29.6 (7.3), and the median number of Elixhauser comorbidities was 1 (IQR, 0-2) (Table 1). In all, 308 028 operations (53.2%) had an ASA status of 1 or 2, 14 354 (2.5%) were emergency status, 431 229 (74.5%) used general anesthesia, 301 687 (52.1%) occurred at teaching hospitals, and the median anesthesia duration was 106 minutes (IQR, 64-176 minutes) (Table 2).

Operation counts for the matched groups were as follows: 48 555 in group 1, 247 057 in group 1-2, 216 193 in group 2-3, and 67 010 in group 3-4. When the distributions of patient demographic characteristics and operative factors were compared among staffing ratio categories, these groups appeared well matched. When an absolute standardized difference threshold of 0.2 was used, the only factors suggesting potential imbalance were the operations occurring at a teaching institution (0.26), anesthesia duration (0.34), and operative year (0.25) (Tables 1 and 2).

Primary Outcome
Overall, morbidity and mortality occurred after 30 026 operations (5.19%; 95% CI, 5.13%-5.24%). The distribution of this composite consisted of 30-day mortality (2607 operations [0.45%]) and the following morbidities: cardiac (5133 operations [0.89%]), respiratory (6645 [1.15%]), gastrointestinal (6694 [1.16%]), urinary (5093 [0.88%]), bleeding (4457 [0.77%]), and infectious (4963 [0.86%]) complications (eTable 2 in the Supplement). The unadjusted absolute event rates were 4.88% in staffing ratio group 1, 5.06% in group 1-2, 5.23% in group 2-3, and 5.74% in group 3-4.

The observed composite morbidity and mortality rate for the reference staffing ratio group (group 1-2) was 5.06%. This observed rate was referenced to calculate estimates from the adjusted outcome model. The adjusted estimate for group 2-3 was 5.25% (95% CI, 5.09%-5.42%). Similarly, the adjusted estimate for group 3-4 was 5.75% (95% CI, 5.47%-6.04%), a 14% relative increase compared with group 1-2, and for group 1 was 5.48% (95% CI, 5.14%-5.83%) (Figure 2). The distribution and contribution of the separate outcome components were examined by the staffing ratio group.

The adjusted odds of morbidity or mortality for all staffing ratio groups were statistically significantly different from that of the reference group of 1-2 (Table 3). The AOR for group 2-3 was 1.04 (95% CI, 1.01-1.08; P = .02) times that of the reference group (group 1-2); the AOR for group 3-4 was 1.15 (95% CI, 1.09-1.21; P < .001) times that of the reference group; and the AOR for group 3-4 was 1.10 (95% CI, 1.04-1.16; P = .001) times that of group 2-3.

Discussion
In this retrospective cohort study of 578 815 matched operations performed on adult patients in 23 US hospitals, increased overlapping anesthesiologist coverage beyond 1 to 2 operations was associated with an increased risk of surgical patient morbidity and 30-day mortality. Because 313 million surgical procedures are performed worldwide each year, any small individual improvements in outcome can have major repercussions for public health.25 These results complement previous studies that have shown improved 30-day mortality and morbidity rates after complications when anesthesiologists directed anesthesia care3 and are consistent with similar studies investigating medical staff workload effects. Studies in the nursing field26-30 have shown that institutions with higher patient to nurse ratios have higher rates of overall patient death, death after complications (failure to rescue), and other adverse events. Increased physician clinical workload has led to decreased quality of care and poor clinical outcomes, with specific examples found among internal medicine hospitalists4,5 and critical care intensivists.16 One simulation study31 showed that increasing operation overlap increased the risk of anesthesiologist supervision lapse. Furthermore, a review32 revealed that patient mortality increased during times of capacity strain in 18 of 30 inpatient care studies and in 9 of 12 studies in intensive care unit settings, suggesting that hospital capacity strain is associated with increased mortality and worsened health outcomes. Collectively, these results suggest that workloads have substantial consequences for patient care quality, clinical outcomes, and individual and organizational performance.33

Models of anesthesia care delivery include anesthesiologists working alone, anesthesiologists supervising physicians in training, anesthesiologists supervising nonphysicians in a care team, nonphysicians working independently, and surgical providers directly administering or overseeing anesthesia. There has been much focus on anesthesia team composition, specifically independent practice of CRNAs and practice group compositions.34 This study focused on physician-led anesthesia care teams and overlaps in patient care, which is a common concern among anesthesia care models and medical specialties with overlapping clinical responsibilities. By removing operations with high (>25%) resident involvement, this study primarily analyzed physician-CRNA teams, the dominant practice model in US anesthesiology. There is a paucity of research in this area of anesthesia practice. In a single-center study,35 investigators observed an increased rate of critical incidents (adverse events not resulting in adverse outcomes) associated with increasing anesthesiologist workload. However, that study was limited to staffing ratios between 1.6 and 2.2 and did not adjust for variations in operative factors and patient characteristics. Because major morbidity and mortality are not common events in a broad operative population, previous studies have lacked the power to appropriately match and analyze effects of overlapping patient care with the methodological rigor applied in the present study. In addition, a robust electronic health record registry, with detailed anesthesiologist sign-in and sign-out times, is required for accurate calculation of the staffing ratios.

Staffing ratio group 1 (1 anesthesiologist with an in-room provider in a 1:1 staffing ratio for the entire operation) demonstrated a statistically significant difference compared with group 1-2, the reference group, but not when compared with group 2-3 or group 3-4 (Table 3). If 1:1 staffing occurred only with higher-acuity operations, substantial variation from the reference group (group 1-2) might be expected; however, the rationale for staffing 1:1 could include both high-risk patients (requiring more attention) and low facility caseloads (ie, idle clinicians). These findings may not be relevant to typical anesthesia practice. Anesthesiology staffing ratio groups 2-3 and 3-4 both showed statistically significant increases in composite morbidity and mortality compared with group 1-2, which suggests that increasing overlapping anesthesiologist clinical responsibilities are associated with adverse surgical patient outcomes. Although major surgical complications are uncommon, any method of further decreasing and understanding this risk is important. When 100 000 operations, which is typical annually for a major medical center, are considered, the increase in risk from 5.06% to 5.75% that we observed would translate to an additional 690 operations with adverse outcomes. These results inform the safe practice of anesthesiology and surgical care models and may also extend to physician practices outside of anesthesiology, specifically areas with elements of overlapping clinical care. Overall, these findings suggest that increasing overlapping clinical care responsibilities may increase patient risk. The results add to previous findings investigating clinical workload and safe clinical practice in other fields, an important finding for improving provider practice and patient care.

Limitations
This study has several limitations, which may restrict the broad applicability of the results. First, the cohort was limited to 23 US centers, which is not representative of all clinical environments, with potential bias to site-specific tendencies. Second, 578 815 operations were used in the final matched analysis using inclusion criteria with a relatively limited operative set, and results may differ when operations outside of those included in this study are considered. Third, although propensity score–matching criteria were used, it is challenging to address unmeasured confounders, such as intraoperative patient acuity, proximity of operating rooms, surgeons’ and other nonanesthesiologist clinicians’ levels of overload and stress, and temporal fluctuations in staffing ratios such as those that may occur during anesthesia induction and tracheal extubation. Fourth, staffing ratios were limited to between 1:1 and 1:4. Operations with a staffing ratio greater than 1:4 are considered “medical supervision” rather than “medical direction” and are relatively uncommon in the US. Our data set contained few operations with time-weighted average staffing ratios greater than 4. Therefore, this study did not include analysis of physicians with overlapping responsibilities through medical supervision. When these findings are considered, it is important to judge increased overlap balanced against potential efficiency and access benefits to assess how much overlap may be appropriate. This study is limited to physician-led anesthesiologist care teams; previous studies have shown that anesthesiology care teams improve outcomes compared with anesthesiologists working alone.36 Fifth, this study did not investigate operations with anesthesiologists supervising physicians in training by limiting resident involvement to less than 25% in each operation. Sixth, routinely collected electronic health record data have known limitations, which were mitigated by the MPOG registry’s strict data quality controls. Seventh, this analysis is limited by the perioperative outcomes available within the data set, and several common postoperative surgical outcomes may have been omitted. Furthermore, we were unable to categorize ICD-9 and ICD-10 data into a severity system such as the Clavien-Dindo system37 because the basis of these classifications depends on corrective therapies in response to a specific complication, which were unavailable to us. Eighth, this analysis used a time-weighted average staffing ratio; other definitions of staffing ratio or variations at specific critical portions of the anesthesia process may be considered in future research to elucidate the relationship further.

Conclusions
In this cohort study, increasing overlapping anesthesiologist coverage was associated with increased surgical patient morbidity and mortality, despite treatment bias for healthier patients and lower-risk operations. These findings suggest potential consequences of overlapping anesthesiologist responsibilities in perioperative team models and should be considered in clinical coverage efforts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Here's the full text btw:

TFA said:
The primary outcome was a composite of 6 major morbidities and 30-day mortality. Morbidities included cardiac, respiratory, gastrointestinal, urinary, bleeding, and infectious complications according to ICD-9 groupings, based on the US Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality’s single-level Clinical Classifications Software categories for ICD-9 diagnosis codes and manually cross-referenced to ICD-10 codes within MPOG.

I don't know what that means or how concerned I should be about the morbidity they measured.

TFA said:
eMethods 2, eTable 1, and eTable 2 in the Supplement provide more detail.

I think I need to read these before deciding if this means anything or not.
 
Seems like some more proof that solo practice anesthesiologist is superior to anything else, and that the more a midlevel is left alone the higher the risk for the patient. Forget about independent practice CRNAs, we've always known their outcomes are worse despite their patient directed propaganda campaigns.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 9 users
Seems like some proof that solo practice anesthesiologist is superior to anything else, and that the more a midlevel is left alone the higher the risk for the patient. Forget about independent practice CRNAs, we've always known their outcomes are worse despite their patient directed propaganda campaigns.
How will the AANA spin this with their mental gymnastics? Hey look, 1:4 supervision ratios are bad because doctors try to micromanage nurses. If nurses were truly independent they could practice at the top of their license and provide better quality care!!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
How will the AANA spin this with their mental gymnastics? Hey look, 1:4 supervision ratios are bad because doctors try to micromanage nurses. If nurses were truly independent they could practice at the top of their license and provide better quality care!!

they'll come up with more made up b.s. to justify their existence
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
How will the AANA spin this with their mental gymnastics? Hey look, 1:4 supervision ratios are bad because doctors try to micromanage nurses. If nurses were truly independent they could practice at the top of their license and provide better quality care!!
they read these forums. i think you just gave them some fantastic ideas
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Simple. Just attack the data and dispute the conclusions.
They will never have any meaningful comparison data because academic centers are never run by solo CRNA. AANA attack studies that run counter to their agenda while mindlessly accept laughably flawed studies that support the conclusions they want
 
Last edited:

Some of you doing high coverage ratios may be providing worse care.

Be ready for the lawsuits. Better get consent for concurrency preop

There will never be enough anesthesiologists to provide the best care possible, so we practice ACT carefully hopefully at low ratios that midlevel mistakes are caught early and without significant harm to patients.

IMO the whole AANA agenda is so laughably ridiculous that it borders on delusional. People can drive in motorcycles and Volvos, but don't pretend that a motorcycle is as safe as a Volvo. If CRNAs want to practice independently I don't really care, but their education and qualifications should be made clear. what I take objection to is that they pretend to have the same knowledge, training and outcomes as physicians. Or worse yet mislead patients into thinking they are actually anesthesiologists.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
AANA is definitely going to say this is data that the ACT model isn't safe. I can't imagine this data is shocking to any reasonable person. The less expert involvement there is the worse things are going to go. Maybe not by a huge number, but my some number and this starts to quantify it.
 
I'd argue that if the signal were true, the increase from group 1 (5.06%) to group 3-4 (5.75%) is not that small even on an absolute basis. Anesthesia is both so extraordinarily safe and common nowadays that even absolute differences of ~1+% M&M should be taken seriously.

well sure, except it is less than 1% and the data is pretty messy and you can't even necessarily attribute the bad outcome to anything to do with the anesthesia. They are using some big numbers and some math to show an association, not a causation, and given the heterogeneity of the data it is tough to draw too strong of a conclusion from it.

I love data that shows the value of anesthesiologists, I would just hesitate to draw too strong of a conclusion from these small associations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
well sure, except it is less than 1% and the data is pretty messy and you can't even necessarily attribute the bad outcome to anything to do with the anesthesia. They are using some big numbers and some math to show an association, not a causation, and given the heterogeneity of the data it is tough to draw too strong of a conclusion from it.

I love data that shows the value of anesthesiologists, I would just hesitate to draw too strong of a conclusion from these small associations.
this is probably as good as we will get
 
well sure, except it is less than 1% and the data is pretty messy and you can't even necessarily attribute the bad outcome to anything to do with the anesthesia. They are using some big numbers and some math to show an association, not a causation, and given the heterogeneity of the data it is tough to draw too strong of a conclusion from it.

I love data that shows the value of anesthesiologists, I would just hesitate to draw too strong of a conclusion from these small associations.

Have you ever worked in a MD only model?
 
AANA is definitely going to say this is data that the ACT model isn't safe. I can't imagine this data is shocking to any reasonable person. The less expert involvement there is the worse things are going to go. Maybe not by a huge number, but my some number and this starts to quantify it.

They won't say that. Because that is essentially saying that CRNAs in thr ACT model are not safe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
well sure, except it is less than 1% and the data is pretty messy and you can't even necessarily attribute the bad outcome to anything to do with the anesthesia. They are using some big numbers and some math to show an association, not a causation, and given the heterogeneity of the data it is tough to draw too strong of a conclusion from it.

I love data that shows the value of anesthesiologists, I would just hesitate to draw too strong of a conclusion from these small associations.

Yeah, that's why I said "if" the signal were true and mentioned a larger difference than what the authors found. I'm not drawing any firm conclusions from one propensity matched study, but it is food for thought.

And to be fair, on the other hand, I think everyone here knows you have a vested interest in high(ish) supervision ratios which would certainly color your opinion on ACT safety studies.
 
And to be fair, on the other hand, I think everyone here knows you have a vested interest in high(ish) supervision ratios which would certainly color your opinion on ACT safety studies.

I do not consider anything about our supervision ratios to be "high(ish)" nor is my personal interest terribly vested in anything considering the very short time frame I have left working in a full time capacity. When myself and my family members (wife, kids, parents) have had surgeries they have been in an ACT model and I have not had a second thought about the quality of the care they received.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I do not consider anything about our supervision ratios to be "high(ish)" nor is my personal interest terribly vested in anything considering the very short time frame I have left working in a full time capacity. When myself and my family members (wife, kids, parents) have had surgeries they have been in an ACT model and I have not had a second thought about the quality of the care they received.

You did [likely fabulously] well financially throughout your career cranking out cases at 1:3 or 1:4....so of course you don't consider such a supervision ratio to be highish. After all, it's just as distasteful to the psyche to admit that already gotten gains arrived in a slightly more unsavory way as those yet to come.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
You did [likely fabulously] well financially throughout your career cranking out cases at 1:3 or 1:4....so of course you don't consider such a supervision ratio to be highish. After all, it's just as distasteful to the psyche to admit that already gotten gains arrived in a slightly more unsavory way as those yet to come.

We go everything from 1:1 to 4:1 so a bit dishonest to pretend it is always 3:1 or 4:1.

And I already know our hospital level patient outcomes exceed most peer institutions for morbidity and mortality.

Like I said, I appreciate the study's effort to look into it with large numbers. But it's sort of amusing reading the discussion of limitations which basically says this might not mean much of anything given the impossibility to include other massively important factors in outcome for each patient.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
do any of us have any idea what the exact risk of any complication is for a procedure we do? Like what is that individuals precise risk of a stroke? What do you tell them when they ask you about the surgeon who isn't the one you would choose for yourself? Do you say they are a hack that you wouldn't let operate on you or do you simply smile and say you are sure they will do a good job and you carry on with your day?

In our practice the intensity of the case is reflected in our staffing ratios. They vary based on how easy the work is.
So just because you cant quantify the precise risk of one adverse event, we should not try to reduce the risk of general adverse events elsewhere? 690 excess cases per 100,000 cases seems like a whole lot of excess cases.
They will never have any meaningful comparison data because academic centers are never run by solo CRNA. AANA attack studies that run counter to their agenda while mindlessly accept laughably flawed studies that support the conclusions they want
You know that. I know that. But can congressmen/women really parse through the data and understand biostatistics and study design to determine the quality of data being spoonfed by lobbyists?
 
So just because you cant quantify the precise risk of one adverse event, we should not try to reduce the risk of general adverse events elsewhere? 690 excess cases per 100,000 cases seems like a whole lot of excess cases.

we should always try to minimize the risk of adverse events. If you can round up an extra 50,000-70,000 board certified anesthesiologists in the US perhaps we can try to tackle it. Considering we currently graduate something like 1200 per year it could take a while to get there. Meanwhile I just live in the real world and do the best I can for every patient I take care of.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
yes, why?

I don't believe you and your posting history never alludes to any MD only work. It does go wayy back and consistently refers to you working in a supervision model. Regardless, it's the internet, your truth can be whatever you want.

The reality is that you haven't worked MD only. You're the biggest supervision model fanboy here. Anyone who's worked in both models knows there is a difference. I'm not going to even touch on the CRNA problem. I think this field has an anesthesiologist problem, in particular those who invite and have become dependent on the supervision model. I do think, sadly, MD only work will become less and less over time and likely go away completely. The CRNAs are making that less likely though of recent as their demands become greater and greater. However, my point remains, which is that anyone who has seen and worked in both a MD only model and a supervision model absolutely knows there's a difference in the care provided.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 4 users
We go everything from 1:1 to 4:1 so a bit dishonest to pretend it is always 3:1 or 4:1.

And I already know our hospital level patient outcomes exceed most peer institutions for morbidity and mortality.

Oh yeah? How many docs start the day and what's the ratio? How bout at noon? 5pm?

And I'm glad your institution does so well. But your practice, i.e. a true private practice where you employ your CRNAs, is a vanishingly rare exception to the rule. The rule being shtty AMC jobs or even academic practices like mine where the CRNAs don't work for the MDs and 10-30% of them are idiot cowboy wannabes who make me constantly play firefighter.

The fact is, in this day and age, all of your proselytizing for the ACT model does nothing to further the development of more practices like yours. What it does do is give more ammo to the shills in the ASA leadership who bend over backward to make PE overlords or the suits in the hospital C-suites (who obviously make a killing off employed MD high supervision ratio models) happy.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
we should always try to minimize the risk of adverse events. If you can round up an extra 50,000-70,000 board certified anesthesiologists in the US perhaps we can try to tackle it. Considering we currently graduate something like 1200 per year it could take a while to get there. Meanwhile I just live in the real world and do the best I can for every patient I take care of.
Doing the best you can would be providing MD only care to them. Dont worry about everyone else, and use it as an excuse to prop up a supervisory model. If youd rather just be outside the OR while the CRNAs sit the stool, then just say that.
Do you even tell the patient that they can request MD only?
 
Since this is observational data, you’d expect some confounders to affect the outcome (even despite attempts at matching).

E.g. patients who are really sick or who require complex surgeries are more frequently assigned 1:2 and healthy patients having routine surgeries are more often 1:4.

Despite this, the 1:2 groups had better outcomes. To me that suggests that the true effect size is even larger than what this study measured! Imagine if this were a randomized trial…
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
Since this is observational data, you’d expect some confounders to affect the outcome (even despite attempts at matching).

E.g. patients who are really sick or who require complex surgeries are more frequently assigned 1:2 and healthy patients having routine surgeries are more often 1:4.

Despite this, the 1:2 groups had better outcomes. To me that suggests that the true effect size is even larger than what this study measured! Imagine if this were a randomized trial…

The data is from multiple places representing a large group of patients. BUT! Some hospitals may be predominately 1:2 while other hospitals may be predominately 1:4. Is this due to differences in case complexity, surgeon, and overall complications between surgical locations? Perhaps effect size from each individual hospital may be too small, but I am curious to see if they analyze the data from individual hospitals if the same trends are seen.
 
Have you ever worked in a MD only model?
I'm curious if you've ever worked in an ACT model. Many of you clearly have not, and I know a number of you work in MD-only practices, which if you've read my posts over the years, I've always supported. But as MMan indicates, he works in the real world - as do I - and it's physically impossible for every patient to have an anesthesiologist personally perform their anesthetic. With the exception of small 1-2 person shops covering AMCs, I'm not aware of ANY MD-only practices in my state, and best I can tell, they're relatively rare in the Southeast.

Like it or not, the ACT is or can be a good solution to the problem of limited numbers of anesthesiologists. With medical direction, an anesthesiologist is personally involved with every single patient. I think my large practice does it well - 1:1 to 1:4, all day, every day, depending on patient acuity. We are 3:1 CAA to CRNA, so the mindset with our anesthetists is always medical direction anyway. We don't tolerate deviation from our practice model by any of our anesthetists, and expectations are made clear well before they start working for us. That type of work ethic comes from the docs (who do not sit in the office for hours on end - they're too busy). Our docs do all the regional, all the blocks. We follow the TEFRA requirements - period. We are currently an AMC-owned practice, but have never been pushed, coerced, or mandated to change from our medically directed way of doing things. Contrary to opinions in the ivory tower, it is quite possible to do 1:4 medical direction and do so safely. Most of the practices in our area function pretty similarly, and we have world-class private as well as academic hospitals with sterling reputations that run strictly as medically directed practices and have for decades.

There are certainly bad ACT practices out in the real world as well. "Supervision" is in name only when you're 1:10 or even worse. I know plenty of practices, including several that are pretty good sized, where the docs are nowhere to be found at nights or on weekends (and often never in OB). Those hours are totally abdicated to the CRNAs (never CAAs since we don't work in those types of practices).

Is a medically-directed ACT perfect? I guess not if you feel anything less than MD-only is the gold standard - but it is most definitely how the real world operates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I'm curious if you've ever worked in an ACT model. Many of you clearly have not, and I know a number of you work in MD-only practices, which if you've read my posts over the years, I've always supported. But as MMan indicates, he works in the real world - as do I - and it's physically impossible for every patient to have an anesthesiologist personally perform their anesthetic. With the exception of small 1-2 person shops covering AMCs, I'm not aware of ANY MD-only practices in my state, and best I can tell, they're relatively rare in the Southeast.

Like it or not, the ACT is or can be a good solution to the problem of limited numbers of anesthesiologists. With medical direction, an anesthesiologist is personally involved with every single patient. I think my large practice does it well - 1:1 to 1:4, all day, every day, depending on patient acuity. We are 3:1 CAA to CRNA, so the mindset with our anesthetists is always medical direction anyway. We don't tolerate deviation from our practice model by any of our anesthetists, and expectations are made clear well before they start working for us. That type of work ethic comes from the docs (who do not sit in the office for hours on end - they're too busy). Our docs do all the regional, all the blocks. We follow the TEFRA requirements - period. We are currently an AMC-owned practice, but have never been pushed, coerced, or mandated to change from our medically directed way of doing things. Contrary to opinions in the ivory tower, it is quite possible to do 1:4 medical direction and do so safely. Most of the practices in our area function pretty similarly, and we have world-class private as well as academic hospitals with sterling reputations that run strictly as medically directed practices and have for decades.

There are certainly bad ACT practices out in the real world as well. "Supervision" is in name only when you're 1:10 or even worse. I know plenty of practices, including several that are pretty good sized, where the docs are nowhere to be found at nights or on weekends (and often never in OB). Those hours are totally abdicated to the CRNAs (never CAAs since we don't work in those types of practices).

Is a medically-directed ACT perfect? I guess not if you feel anything less than MD-only is the gold standard - but it is most definitely how the real world operates.
I imagine all the MD-only places on the west coast, south, and Midwest must not be living in the real world then? Lets not equivocate your practice as the standard or that of 'the real world'.
 
@jwk yes I have worked in supervision. I know your hospital and historically it’s been the exception, not the rule, for the Southeast. Especially with regard to the number of AAs.
 
. Contrary to opinions in the ivory tower, it is quite possible to do 1:4 medical direction and do so safely. Most of the practices in our area function pretty similarly, and we have world-class private as well as academic hospitals with sterling reputations that run strictly as medically directed practices and have for decades.

It's funny how you can be so condescending and yet, like @Mman, either totally clueless or indifferent to the fact that private practices with employed CRNAs or AAs who meet all the TEFRA steps are hilariously rare.

At least two days a week for the past 5 years I end up supervising 1:3 or 1:4 as the day is winding down. I do in-house busy level I trauma nightfloat supervising 3 (sometimes variable skill) CRNAs, and I'm sure the stress of it has shaved years off my life. In my hospital and 3 others in my area the anesthesiologists definitely don't meet the TEFRA steps 100% of the time, and it's not because they're hiding in an office. It's because administration is too chickensht to tell the CRNAs that all their propaganda is a joke and they need to play ball.

All of that is to say that your spiel about the merits of ACT doesn't convince anyone except the teeny, tiny "we employ our anesthetists so they have to play ball" choir hearing your sermon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
They know they are providing worse care. Unfortunately that is the system we've built and/or started working in.

Most supervision jobs you sign charts and run to pre-op, post-op, place blocks, and hope nothing happens in the meantime while mediocre nurses "provide anesthesia". Many of us would never tolerate the anesthesia being provided to patients under our care by those CRNAs if it were our family member, and yet we stay quiet. Why? It's the system. Just like nurses should have fixed ratios, so should anesthesiologists. Once complexity of case or ASA status goes up, that ratio should be lowered even further. We all know this and yet are afraid to say it out loud.
I do not work in the anesthesia care team for this sole reason only. You do the anesthesia the way I ask, or you dont do it at all. I noped myself out of the care team model. I only do SOLO Cases for the past several years now
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
they read these forums. i think you just gave them some fantastic ideas
No, those talking points are already in their armementarium. Top of the license, micromanage, remove artificial barriers, solve the anesthesia provider shortage etc....
 
There will never be enough anesthesiologists to provide the best care possible, so we practice ACT carefully hopefully at low ratios that midlevel mistakes are caught early and without significant harm to patients.

IMO the whole AANA agenda is so laughably ridiculous that it borders on delusional. People can drive in motorcycles and Volvos, but don't pretend that a motorcycle is as safe as a Volvo. If CRNAs want to practice independently I don't really care, but their education and qualifications should be made clear. what I take objection to is that they pretend to have the same knowledge, training and outcomes as physicians. Or worse yet mislead patients into thinking they are actually anesthesiologists.
^^^ this.. I just STILL cant believe people are buying their BULL****. I cannot have failth in our political system witnessing the debacle that is health care transparency and practice. Same with FPA for nurse practitioners. Why is that even a thing? I do not understand. I blame the politicians who support this.(Democrats). Makes me wonder what else are they dead-wrong about.
 
You know that. I know that. But can congressmen/women really parse through the data and understand biostatistics and study design to determine the quality of data being spoonfed by lobbyists?
Very true. They( politicians) dont even know the meaning of independent. Once the CRNAS start testifying against AAs saying CRNAS are independent(which is nonsense) providers and AAs are dependent providers their eyes gloss over and they vote against AAs because who wants a dependent provider? They have no earthly idea what that means yet they are voting against AAs. Dependent providers are better for the patient. ANd honestly who the **** uses the word independent when discussing patient care. SO how can anyone expect them to digest this study?
 
The rule being shtty AMC jobs or even academic practices like mine where the CRNAs don't work for the MDs and 10-30% of them are idiot cowboy wannabes who make me constantly play firefighter.
^^^ THIS
 
Found this on Google about Canada

The Canadian Medical Association published the 2018 Anesthesiology Profile showing a total of 3321 Physician Anesthesiologists in Canada or 9 per 100 000 Canadians. In contrast the United States has 47 000 Physician Anesthesiologists which is 14.4 per 100 000.

For those of you who day WE NEED CRNAS . How does Canada do it? I don't hear daily about how bad Canada's healthcare is ... I think it'll be fine? We have 50% more anesthesiologists per capita than Canada yet we NEED CRNAS?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Our healthcare system over treats and over utilizes surgical interventions, the emphasis on prevention and a non processed diet is not existent. The medical industrial complex is big and that’s why We have a larger “need “ than Canada
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Top