At A Crossroads, Advice Needed

[VargasEducation]

Hello Everyone:

I have read the post here and all i got was upsetting thoughts. I do have a lower GPA than pretty much everyone. In high school i had great grade history, when i started college grades where great, B and A's in science, but then i dropped and changed my major in Criminology. The rest of my college career was B's and C's. Then i went to grad school for international business where i survived and got my degree.

Once done with Grad, i really wanted to go back and finish the premed requirements and go to Med SChool. I took a year where i did all the pre-reqs, sat in front of the classroom, studied and even became a science tutor at the college. I tutored physics, chemistry, organic and some biology. Even though i did all this, i still got C's in all my classes. My professors where confused on how was i able to get labs, participate and explain the material but it never translated into testing. During this period of time i shadowed and assisted in surgery in a plastic surgery office for over 300+ hours. I also became a full time Boy Scout Volunteer Leader which i am still currently am doing.

THen i started to study for the MCAT for about three months, my practice test were in a range of the 20's. THe results were pathetic (13), then i decided to re-study, i talked to my organic professor and he asked if i ever had been checked for ADHD, i said no, and he advised me to go to a physician to check into it. I asked why and he said because during Orgo 2 he was getting frustrated on how was i doing so badly on test even though i would be explaining to other students the material and they were increasing the scores, he also mentioned that there was a reason he gave me extra time in the final, which helped him make the decision for this advise. I kicked ass on the final with an A.

So i went to the doctor he said i should have come for this issue years ago. I went on Amphetamines and my life changed 100%. I decided to retake the MCAT, took 13 practice test in all i had a range from 25-31's. I took it, very confident, and left happy all under normal conditions no extra time or anything. Then i received the results.... i got a 14... one point above my last score. Not to be a pansy but i lost it and cried the whole day. I had studied to hard, had taken all these test that were consistent.

During the period of waiting for my scores i started(and currently) working and shadowing at a Gyno-Onco Clinic, under three different doctors and in three different departments (chemotherapy research, Shadowing, and Prepping patients either for Chemo Treatment or Physicians)).

Now i am at a crossroads, where i have looked up my options, i can request extra time for MCAT, and maybe look into a tutor, i previously studied kaplan and exam krackers. BY all means you all readers, I ENJOY studying and learning. I ENJOY every second i have in an physicians office, i get excited about everything i experience and learn. I know the journey in Med school will be tough but i cannot see myself doing anything else.

If anyone has made it through this i thank you and would appreciate any a guidance, advice, schools to look at time-line on when i should retake the mcat ( i dont mind studying again for it, as i said i dont mind studying and using my mind).

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[BPlaysItCool]

Hello Everyone:

I have read the post here and all i got was upsetting thoughts. I do have a lower GPA than pretty much everyone. In high school i had great grade history, when i started college grades where great, B and A's in science, but then i dropped and changed my major in Criminology. The rest of my college career was B's and C's. Then i went to grad school for international business where i survived and got my degree.

Once done with Grad, i really wanted to go back and finish the premed requirements and go to Med SChool. I took a year where i did all the pre-reqs, sat in front of the classroom, studied and even became a science tutor at the college. I tutored physics, chemistry, organic and some biology. Even though i did all this, i still got C's in all my classes. My professors where confused on how was i able to get labs, participate and explain the material but it never translated into testing. During this period of time i shadowed and assisted in surgery in a plastic surgery office for over 300+ hours. I also became a full time Boy Scout Volunteer Leader which i am still currently am doing.

THen i started to study for the MCAT for about three months, my practice test were in a range of the 20's. THe results were pathetic (13), then i decided to re-study, i talked to my organic professor and he asked if i ever had been checked for ADHD, i said no, and he advised me to go to a physician to check into it. I asked why and he said because during Orgo 2 he was getting frustrated on how was i doing so badly on test even though i would be explaining to other students the material and they were increasing the scores, he also mentioned that there was a reason he gave me extra time in the final, which helped him make the decision for this advise. I kicked ass on the final with an A.

So i went to the doctor he said i should have come for this issue years ago. I went on Amphetamines and my life changed 100%. I decided to retake the MCAT, took 13 practice test in all i had a range from 25-31's. I took it, very confident, and left happy all under normal conditions no extra time or anything. Then i received the results.... i got a 14... one point above my last score. Not to be a pansy but i lost it and cried the whole day. I had studied to hard, had taken all these test that were consistent.

During the period of waiting for my scores i started(and currently) working and shadowing at a Gyno-Onco Clinic, under three different doctors and in three different departments (chemotherapy research, Shadowing, and Prepping patients either for Chemo Treatment or Physicians)).

Now i am at a crossroads, where i have looked up my options, i can request extra time for MCAT, and maybe look into a tutor, i previously studied kaplan and exam krackers. BY all means you all readers, I ENJOY studying and learning. I ENJOY every second i have in an physicians office, i get excited about everything i experience and learn. I know the journey in Med school will be tough but i cannot see myself doing anything else.

If anyone has made it through this i thank you and would appreciate any a guidance, advice, schools to look at time-line on when i should retake the mcat ( i dont mind studying again for it, as i said i dont mind studying and using my mind).

Vargas. First. What's you're overall gpa? And BCPM gpa?

Second. It doesn't look good. If you were my fighter. The white towel would be sailing through the air. I can't stand to see you getting pummeled. There's so many fantastic people that just aren't going to make it this way.

But let's get the full damage report before the bugler plays Taps. And for the future users. Always give your complete numbers. As you expect to give vital signs when you visit a clinic.

 

[PlacentaSac]

I don't want to bring you down, but the reality is that there is absolutely no medical school DO or MD that will take scores that low. You have already taken the MCAT twice with a total score or what many students get on just one section. The reality is, medical school is way too competitive in the US. I'm sorry, but I really feel that this is an impossibility for you. Medical School is many times harder than undergrad and schools just aren't going to think you can handle it, let alone pass USMLE Step 1 which is also much, much harder than the MCAT. I’m sorry to say, but think of what else you enjoy doing.

 

[VargasEducation]

Hello, *I appreciate the response. *I realize that absolutely no school will take these scores for the mcat. *I plan to retake it again and make sure I do well. *Two of my friends took it four times and were able get in. * I know it's not going to be easy for me but I have read worse stories than mine and without experience. * *I was hoping to get some feedback for a way to conquer from other peoples experience or guidance. ***This is quite the passion for me and like anyone who has goals I'll try everything until I can. **

 

[VargasEducation]

My gap undergrad is 2.72 My bcpm is 2.5.

I'm planning on taking the mcat again and keep doing work and shadowing. I have over 300+ hours in surgery room and heaps more in shadowing and office work.

I know I am not the only one who struggled to get in. I will fight as much as i can to get there. I wanted to see the opinion of random strangers, thus far on here it hasn't been great. The physicians I've worked for said it's possible but hard and I had to keep looking forward.

 

[BPlaysItCool]

My gap undergrad is 2.72 My bcpm is 2.5.

I'm planning on taking the mcat again and keep doing work and shadowing. I have over 300+ hours in surgery room and heaps more in shadowing and office work.

I know I am not the only one who struggled to get in. I will fight as much as i can to get there. I wanted to see the opinion of random strangers, thus far on here it hasn't been great. The physicians I've worked for said it's possible but hard and I had to keep looking forward.

Well. Get the MSAR book with pages of data on applicant statistics. Find where you fit on that curve for your numbers. Add a boost if you want to look out for the positive if you have an otherwise solid app.

And that my friend is your odds. The trouble with asking for inspiration is. I haven't heard of one person with your situation getting in. I've been reading and looking for just such naratives on here since 2002 or so.

Anyone in the mid 2.'s has killed their prereqs. Choked out the MCAT, put it to sleep, in the first round. And even then went on to an SMP where they outcompeted the smartest/hardest working med students out there.

Anyone not telling you these facts is cringing and cowardly. Or at best ignorant of them.

Your fighting way above your weight and way out of your class. Prepare to spend more wasted time. Huge effort. And plenty of money. Just to get knocked the F out.

 

[TigerlilyDC]

Are there any med schools near you that you could set up an advising appointment with? They might be able to give you a clearer idea.

Obviously your scores and grades are low, and from the sounds of things, they're so low that at this point they wouldn't even make first cut for the adcoms to read about WHY they're so low.

If you have a condition, such as ADHD or a learning disabilitythat doesn't affect your intellectual capability but DOES affect your ability to say, take tests, you may be able to use it. Especially if it was previously undiagnosed.

The thing is though, they will still want to see academic success. With your A on your Orgo Final, you've shown that you can obviously do it, you just may need some accomodations.

I think you should maybe take a break from school and the MCAT and get your ADHD under control to the point where you have confidence that you'll be able to succeed academically. Then, maybe sign up for some upper level classes, ace those and then retake the MCAT. Basically show the Adcoms a "pre-diagnosis" and "post-diagnosis" difference in your scores. What it comes down to is that you have to show them that you'll be able to handle the rigors of med school and scores/grades are the standard predictor of future academic success.

Good luck!

 

[EdLongshanks]

My gap undergrad is 2.72 My bcpm is 2.5.

I'm planning on taking the mcat again and keep doing work and shadowing. I have over 300+ hours in surgery room and heaps more in shadowing and office work.

I know I am not the only one who struggled to get in. I will fight as much as i can to get there. I wanted to see the opinion of random strangers, thus far on here it hasn't been great. The physicians I've worked for said it's possible but hard and I had to keep looking forward.

Even if you could get accepted, you haven't solved your academic problems, you would have even worse problems in medical school.

The only way that you will be a doctor is if you.

1) Completely solve your academic problems so that you know you can get straight A's in multiple, simultaneous, 4000-level classes.

2) Go to the Caribbean.

 

[VargasEducation]

I'm glad that with these responses. * I am definitely going to try and speak with a counselor, I have taken a break from studying and have been working on how to study again with the medicines I'm taking. *I am catching thing quicker an learning much faster and able to respond. **

It's def not an intelligence problem, I def think it's the time. *I was a upper level science tutor and now tutor high school and middle school kids. *I am able to explain and have helped people jump from c to a's. * *I have pin pointed it to time and I have just started taking the extra time.

Things got more stressful *when I did grad school. *I was still able to finish but with hard work. **

I also saved the test from Orgo ii to show the huge jump. * Some of the responses have been very negative and if I didn't think I could do it I would drop. * I am not. **

I was thinking of retaking Orgo again to show improvement or different upper level sciences. **

As for app I have been working on building a strong application. *My organic *and chemistry teacher and the physicians I am working for have volunteered to write my recommendation letters.*

Again thanks to the responses thus far. *I appreciate it thus far!

 

[QofQuimica]

Vargas, some of the grammatical oddities in your posts give me the impression that you are not a native speaker of English. Have you considered taking some reading-intensive classes and otherwise working on your general English reading skills? If nothing else, it might help improve your MCAT performance, especially on the VR section.

 

[VargasEducation]

Vargas, some of the grammatical oddities in your posts give me the impression that you are not a native speaker of English. Have you considered taking some reading-intensive classes and otherwise working on your general English reading skills? If nothing else, it might help improve your MCAT performance, especially on the VR section.

Hey!


You are correct, English is my second language and I was also in the middle of a meeting with the boy scouts. I have had that been advised to me recently. VR is a struggle specially in a limited time.

Thank you for posting

 

[BPlaysItCool]

I'm glad that with these responses. * I am definitely going to try and speak with a counselor, I have taken a break from studying and have been working on how to study again with the medicines I'm taking. *I am catching thing quicker an learning much faster and able to respond. **

It's def not an intelligence problem, I def think it's the time. *I was a upper level science tutor and now tutor high school and middle school kids. *I am able to explain and have helped people jump from c to a's. * *I have pin pointed it to time and I have just started taking the extra time.

Things got more stressful *when I did grad school. *I was still able to finish but with hard work. **

I also saved the test from Orgo ii to show the huge jump. * Some of the responses have been very negative and if I didn't think I could do it I would drop. * I am not. **

I was thinking of retaking Orgo again to show improvement or different upper level sciences. **

As for app I have been working on building a strong application. *My organic *and chemistry teacher and the physicians I am working for have volunteered to write my recommendation letters.*

Again thanks to the responses thus far. *I appreciate it thus far!

Look, I am a sucker for an underdog. Everytime. The truth is nobody can say what someone else can and can't do.

Who would have thought a Jewish peasant could make Rome tremble. Or a skinny little lawyer in a white smock convince a continent to shake off the British Empire like a bad case of fleas.

The trouble in my mind is these things--medical school aspirations--don't pertain to the quantum mechanical or the mystical. But the ego. Amidst social warfare.

You've had a chronic lack of good advice. You're ESL. This is a complicated game played out for the benefit of an upper middle class. It's no accident medicine is often a family affair. It nearly demands the benefit of the upper social class played out in cutthroat style. With political precision.

It is going take a radical shift in your pattern of performance to the even have a chance. Q, make an excellent point. Though you might press her for a even given this what then would it take sort of thing..... B/c she left that out. And she would know better than me if you even have a fraction of a chance.

My negativity is not malicious. But calculated. To bring your mind to the necessity of radicalism or futility.

 

[VargasEducation]

I appreciate the response on this one. I totally agree with you I had a lack of coaching and advise. Honestly I wish I would have applied to the six year program schools over ten years ago.

And I agree with Q, and Q is not the first to advise that idea. And I agree with you that something has to be dramatically different. To put things in perspective, when I originally started college over ten years ago my plan was med school, I started taking the peeress and I got As and Bs until I quit bc of inmature decision, due to the fact that it had been over ten years I had to retake them.

I have always had a passion for surgery, how my body works and wanting to know more of it. I have always felt I gave up, and mate, every single class I have taken for prereq I have loved. I am well aware there's going to be another mcat in my future, I dont mind. I was very upset bc I did take 13 practice test I think ( including the aamc tests) and they were all 23-31(the last practice tests) range.

For years it has been getting harder to concentrate and avoided the idea of any problems. I was diagnosed last fall, life has been so much easier since then. I def agree I have to show some huge improvement and work on how to work with the setback. I have to find a way to learn how to study all
Over again I think. Grad school I would close myself in a room till i got what I needed to learn or work on bc I knew one little thing would distract me.

After this past mcat, as I mentioned in the intro, I started doing research for chemo treatments that are in their various levels of studies and one that is close for being approved. I also shadow the physicians to the moment I am not allowed, the rest of the time I take vitals and make sure they are following their treatments. My point is, the passion is there and the urge to know and learn, to be able to help and make a difference through the power of science.

I am appreciative of the truth, but I do have my setbacks and I know I can do it, and the physicians I work for or have shadowed see the passion I have for the field.

Again mate, thank you for responding.

 

[LegendaryPunk]

Hey Vargas,

Sorry to hear that you are having such a difficult time. As others have prefaced as well, please don't take my bluntness as an attack - just trying to be honest so you have a real understanding of your situation.

First off - STOP taking classes and retaking the MCAT! Each post-bacc course you do poorly in, each poor MCAT score - they're only pulling you down deeper into the quicksand. You need to hold off on putting more marks on your permanent record until you get your condition under control and are POSITIVE you can excel in these areas.

Even then, that cGPA and sGPA is going to be tough to beat. Since you have already completed your undergrad degree and took your pre-reqs as post-bacc classes, you probably have a decent number of credits under your belt. At this point, a full course load for one year, even if you get all A's, will only give it a nudge. DO schools have grade forgiveness though, in which if you retake a class, they will dismiss your previous grade. It might be worth your while to calculate your potential GPA if you re-take your pre-reqs and do well. Still a long shot but at least worth looking into.

I'm planning on taking the mcat again and keep doing work and shadowing. I have over 300+ hours in surgery room and heaps more in shadowing and office work.

While your enthusiasm is commendable, your only focus right now should be grades and MCAT, not clinical experience and shadowing. You could have ten times the amount of volunteer hours you currently have and it wouldn't make a difference, because right now nobody will look that deep into your application.

Look, I am a sucker for an underdog. Everytime. The truth is nobody can say what someone else can and can't do.

*snip*

B, love the style of your posts, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that a non-native English speaker might have some trouble deciphering your meaning. Unless you're trying to give him a head start in verbal MCAT review

 

[0919mmk]

Vargas, I feel for you, I really do. Your passion for medicine is apparent, but I have to agree with B and others: you need to think about other ways (other than being a doctor) that you can engage in your love of medicine. The bottom line is that when you apply for MD or DO, 99% of the other applicants have higher GPAs and MCATs than you. A med school could basically never justify accepting you because they would be rejecting thousands of kids with at least a 3.3/30 combo. They won't do that. Thus, the only way you can get in anywhere right now is, as you know, to become one of those kids with a 3.3+ and 30+.

DO is a possibility if you go back to school for a few years and get straight A's and score over 30 on the MCAT. Do not go to carribean schools - they might take you, but if you don't pass the Step 1's, you will be out $100,000 with no way to pay it back.

So honestly, I recommend you look in to other allied health careers - there are many many people involved in the healing process who aren't doctors, and those careers can be very rewarding, both "spiritually" and financially. Look in to it, because I just dont think MD/DO is going to be worth the pain you'd have to go through, and honestly, it would really suck if you went to school for 4 more years and still didn't get in (a strong possibility, even likely).

Either way, I genuinely wish you good luck.