Attendings -- how many hours a week do you work?

[Doctor Bagel]

So we've got a thread asking about resident work hours -- I'm curious to know how many hours the attendings in this forum work a week. From my perspective so far, it seems like you can work about as much or as little as you like in psychiatry.

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[OldPsychDoc]

Oh, 50-55 on average.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Fairly consistent with 10 hour days, but with call probably between 50 and 55. The nice thing about academics isn’t a low work volume; it is the more varied work tasks. Some parts I hate, but it doesn’t take all that long to move on to something I like again.

 

[keifernny2]

4- 10 hr days at Job #1, and 5 hrs telemedicine (job #2) on the other day. No call, no weekends.

 

[F0nzie]

18 hours at SMI clinic and 10-16 hours at the pp.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

SMI?

 

[st2205]

SMI?

Severely mentally ill (i.e. likely some kind of community clinic).

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Severely mentally ill (i.e. likely some kind of community clinic).

Ah. Thanks st.

Just call it a MH clinic, for mental health so you capture the moderately mentally ill.

 

[F0nzie]

Wife is a child psychiatrist. 16-20 hours at the pp.

 

[chicagochildpsych]

I work about 60-70 per week (it's a choice, I'm trying to aggressively pay off sallie Mae)

 

[doctorpilgrim]

40 hrs on average with 1 in 3 call.

 

[daru1]

24 hours. 16 telepsych, 8 pp.

 

[Shikima]

32 hours/week for now. Looking at other options.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

32 hours/week for now. Looking at other options.

Without student debt, psychiatry would be a pretty sweet gig because you can make pretty good money working 30 or so hours a week. You could make close to $100k just working 2 weekends a month in my town.

And wow, I've finally hit 10,000. Tales of a misspent life since 2002.

 

[PikminOC]

Without student debt, psychiatry would be a pretty sweet gig because you can make pretty good money working 30 or so hours a week. You could make close to $100k just working 2 weekends a month in my town.

And wow, I've finally hit 10,000. Tales of a misspent life since 2002.

What are the rates? And what have you been doing since 2002?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

What are the rates? And what have you been doing since 2002?

Weekend hospital coverage ranges from $3k to $4k, so ~$91k for 26 weekends in a year. Not bad for hardly ever working.

I've just been posting too much (in spurts) on SDN since 2002. I guess that's when I first started thinking about pursuing a career in medicine.

 

[nitemagi]

I did that kind of hospital coverage when I was in residency. A grind but worth it at the time.

Currently I work 20-30 hours/wk in my private practice. 30% meds, 40% therapy, 30% hypnosis.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

Question for the attendings out there: Can you work exclusively evening hours (i.e. 5pm-9pm-ish)? I'm possibly interested in pursuing other fields of study/work after residency that might require regular business hours.

 

[Shikima]

Question for the attendings out there: Can you work exclusively evening hours (i.e. 5pm-9pm-ish)? I'm possibly interested in pursuing other fields of study/work after residency that might require regular business hours.

You can do whatever you'd like. I advise not dancing on the table with a light shade on your head.

 

[PistolPete]

24 hours. 16 telepsych, 8 pp.

What state are you in, if you don't mind my asking? I'm very interested in tele psychiatry once I'm done with training.

 

[PikminOC]

I did that kind of hospital coverage when I was in residency. A grind but worth it at the time.

Currently I work 20-30 hours/wk in my private practice. 30% meds, 40% therapy, 30% hypnosis.

You hypnotize me on here with your thoughtful answers...

 

[psyxh]

What are the rates? And what have you been doing since 2002?

 

[psyxh]

What state are you in, if you don't mind my asking? I'm very interested in tele psychiatry once I'm done with training.

 

[psyxh]

What state are you in, if you don't mind my asking? I'm very interested in tele psychiatry once I'm done with training.

Sorry. Butt posted TID.

 

[Psychobabbling]

13 months, 21 days....a running count down I keep in my head until I finish residency...

Oh and when I finish - I can finally go back to my natural schedule...up until 2am....start my day around 10am....

Mmmmm, feels good just thinking about it

 

[PikminOC]

10 am is too early...

 

[VMSmith]

44 hrs/week + 1 weekend per year.

 

[crpstudent]

24 hours. 16 telepsych, 8 pp.

Tell us more about the telepsych

 

[l0st1]

24 hours. 16 telepsych, 8 pp.

Why do you work so little?

 

[freemontie]

Weekend hospital coverage ranges from $3k to $4k, so ~$91k for 26 weekends in a year. Not bad for hardly ever working.

I've just been posting too much (in spurts) on SDN since 2002. I guess that's when I first started thinking about pursuing a career in medicine.

Except most people's family and friends are mostly only free on weekends. Thus IMO the price of never having a free weekend is anywhere from negative $50k to negative priceless depending on the person

 

[erg923]

Why do you work so little?

Work is called work for a reason, right? If I could make a salary satifactory to me and my needs, then doing it 24 hours week might be all it takes.

More time for Golf is good. More time for kids is good. More time for...whatever...is good.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Except most people's family and friends are mostly only free on weekends. Thus IMO the price of never having a free weekend is anywhere from negative $50k to negative priceless depending on the person

Note that I said working 2 weekends a month -- could still suck with family and friends but pretty different from every weekend. Btw, not my future work plan, but I can see the appeal.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Why do you work so little?

Why not work so little if you can?

 

[Trismegistus4]

Work is called work for a reason, right? If I could make a salary satifactory to me and my needs, then doing it 24 hours week might be all it takes.

More time for Golf is good. More time for kids is good. More time for...whatever...is good.

There's a line in David Mamet's movie Heist, uttered by Danny DeVito: "Everybody wants money. That's why they call it money!" I'm not much of a Mamet fan, and am usually at a loss to understand why critics find such dialog witty. But I have to admit, that line resonates with me when contemplating the meaning of "work." Nobody wants to work. That's why they call it work!

The general philosophy of life held by contemporary Western liberal cognitive elites, is that the purpose of life is to find self-actualization through one's career. Those elites have an innate drive to do this themselves, and so their bias is to impute this drive to all people. But in reality, the vast majority of humanity (myself included) has no desire to have a self-actualizing career. Most of us would rather be sailing. (And I say that as a member of the class of people who go to medical school. In fact the vast majority of humanity are proles who'd rather be reclining on the couch eating chips and watching pro wrestling.)

 

[erg923]

The general philosophy of life held by contemporary Western liberal cognitive elites, is that the purpose of life is to find self-actualization through one's career. Those elites have an innate drive to do this themselves, and so their bias is to impute this drive to all people. But in reality, the vast majority of humanity (myself included) has no desire to have a self-actualizing career. )

Kinda out of left field there, but whatev

 

[nitemagi]

There's a line in David Mamet's movie Heist, uttered by Danny DeVito: "Everybody wants money. That's why they call it money!" I'm not much of a Mamet fan, and am usually at a loss to understand why critics find such dialog witty. But I have to admit, that line resonates with me when contemplating the meaning of "work." Nobody wants to work. That's why they call it work!

The general philosophy of life held by contemporary Western liberal cognitive elites, is that the purpose of life is to find self-actualization through one's career. Those elites have an innate drive to do this themselves, and so their bias is to impute this drive to all people. But in reality, the vast majority of humanity (myself included) has no desire to have a self-actualizing career. Most of us would rather be sailing. (And I say that as a member of the class of people who go to medical school. In fact the vast majority of humanity are proles who'd rather be reclining on the couch eating chips and watching pro wrestling.)

Mihalyi Csikszentmihalyi has a good take on this, which is we don't want to put in effort for the satisfaction we get. Even though the satisfaction we get when we put in effort far outweighs the effort put in. Therefore people convince themselves they'd rather do nothing. Or watch TV.

I make the comparison to behavioral economics and the "pain of paying." It hurts to "pay."

For actualized life satisfaction, I think many of us actually view working enough to support the rest of life as the embodiment of self-actualization. I can do a job I love, not more than I want, and use it to support the rest of my life where I get other forms of fulfillment.

 

[Symmetry11]

how much do you earn working 60+ hours in psych? are these mostly relaxed hours or busy hours?

 

[daru1]

Why do you work so little?

Because I can. I'm compensated very well for what I do. I don't need 300k, somewhere below that line is ok with me.

 

[erg923]

There's a line in David Mamet's movie Heist, uttered by Danny DeVito: "Everybody wants money. That's why they call it money!" I'm not much of a Mamet fan, and am usually at a loss to understand why critics find such dialog witty. But I have to admit, that line resonates with me when contemplating the meaning of "work." Nobody wants to work. That's why they call it work!

The general philosophy of life held by contemporary Western liberal cognitive elites, is that the purpose of life is to find self-actualization through one's career. Those elites have an innate drive to do this themselves, and so their bias is to impute this drive to all people. But in reality, the vast majority of humanity (myself included) has no desire to have a self-actualizing career. Most of us would rather be sailing. (And I say that as a member of the class of people who go to medical school. In fact the vast majority of humanity are proles who'd rather be reclining on the couch eating chips and watching pro wrestling.)

The Nuns at school used to tell us "Idle hands are the devils play thing."

Work is therapuetic. And there is no denying that if you buy into behavioral models of depression, pleasure and mastery are key elements of mental health..or "self-actualization", if you will. I do not agree that "Nobody wants to work" , and there is much empirical data from the social sciences literature to disconfirm such a notion.

That said, there is threshold where that is reached, and this may very well be below the "40 hours per week" bench mark.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

That said, there is threshold where that is reached, and this may very well be below the "40 hours per week" bench mark.

I think working part-time is probably close to ideal for just about anybody. You get to work, which hopefully leads to you feeling valued and like you contribute in some way. It gets you out of your house (usually) and helps with structure. However it still leaves ample time for you to take care of yourself and to devote time to other interests.

 

[Thruster]

Would you guys mind mentioning your earnings, so that there's a more accurate estimate of earning potential per hour compared to other threads.

 

[Monocles]

I did that kind of hospital coverage when I was in residency. A grind but worth it at the time.

Currently I work 20-30 hours/wk in my private practice. 30% meds, 40% therapy, 30% hypnosis.

Sorry not to hijack the thread but hypnosis?!? That sounds super fascinating! What sort of extra training or fellowship did you do to learn that?

 

[Shikima]

First, start with a suggestive person before attempting any kind of hypnosis.

 

[Mad Jack]

There's a line in David Mamet's movie Heist, uttered by Danny DeVito: "Everybody wants money. That's why they call it money!" I'm not much of a Mamet fan, and am usually at a loss to understand why critics find such dialog witty. But I have to admit, that line resonates with me when contemplating the meaning of "work." Nobody wants to work. That's why they call it work!

The general philosophy of life held by contemporary Western liberal cognitive elites, is that the purpose of life is to find self-actualization through one's career. Those elites have an innate drive to do this themselves, and so their bias is to impute this drive to all people. But in reality, the vast majority of humanity (myself included) has no desire to have a self-actualizing career. Most of us would rather be sailing. (And I say that as a member of the class of people who go to medical school. In fact the vast majority of humanity are proles who'd rather be reclining on the couch eating chips and watching pro wrestling.)

I've always thought the whole "you are what you do" line of thinking to be silly. I'm a guy that likes travelling, good food, art, music, and a million other things. I don't need a career to make my life feel worthwhile, but I feel many people literally don't know what to do with themselves without work. They don't have enough interests and activities to fill a day, so they let their work define them. I've got an identity without a career, so I'm good with working as little as possible (or even not at all, if I can save enough soon enough).

Good to see a few other people that get working isn't the point of life, a rarity in medicine from the vibe I've noticed.

 

[Bartelby]

Question for the attendings out there: Can you work exclusively evening hours (i.e. 5pm-9pm-ish)? I'm possibly interested in pursuing other fields of study/work after residency that might require regular business hours.

I am a resident interested in PP so take my answer with a grain of salt. There are probably some employed situations that allow for that, but your best bet would be private practice group or solo where you bring in your own business. There are a lot of people who would absolutely love you for offering evening hours and it would give you a real competitive edge, especially amongst employed people. Think about it, if you had to make it to weekly psychotherapy would you prefer Tuesday evenings at 6pm or Tuesdays at 2pm? That said, if you are doing something else from 9-5 you would need to watch for burnout.

 

[asdf0987]

Seems like attending hours really vary by the type of work and employer. PP of course is up to your own goals. Academic attendings are usually around 40 hours but lower salary. Inpatient can be 20-60 hrs depending on the size of the unit, and inpatient salaries are generally higher. Weekend coverage alone ranges from $2-5k per weekend, with some requiring rounding on all patients and others are phone call only. Telepsych is becoming more popular too, I have seen offers around $100-$200/hr for telepsych, especially overnight telepsych covering inpatient units. VA jobs tend to be 40 hrs, and correctional jobs 20-30hrs depending on the size of the facility. A friend has a concierge practice (house calls, online consults etc) and he pulls in $250+/hour and only works 15-20hrs/week.

 

[Freddie Mercury]

Even though the satisfaction we get when we put in effort far outweighs the effort put in. Therefore people convince themselves they'd rather do nothing. Or watch TV.

This is interesting. I always felt like I would do nothing given the opportunity (if someone gave me a billion dollars I would drop out of school and play video games on a boat all day). But maybe I'm just convincing myself I'd rather do that. I'm looking at some of the theories of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi and I would like to pursue this further, if you have any book or article recommendations.

 

[nitemagi]

This is interesting. I always felt like I would do nothing given the opportunity (if someone gave me a billion dollars I would drop out of school and play video games on a boat all day). But maybe I'm just convincing myself I'd rather do that. I'm looking at some of the theories of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi and I would like to pursue this further, if you have any book or article recommendations.

Check out Flow. It's a good start.

 

[nitemagi]

Sorry not to hijack the thread but hypnosis?!? That sounds super fascinating! What sort of extra training or fellowship did you do to learn that?

Depends on what level of expertise and versatility you want to have for it. Check out ASCH.net for professional training workshops, offered only for health professionals. That's a good place to start. I've done probably on the order of 500 hours of training cumulatively, including mentorship/supervision by a senior psychiatrist during residency that had been practicing hypnosis for about 40years.

 

[Trismegistus4]

Mihalyi Csikszentmihalyi has a good take on this, which is we don't want to put in effort for the satisfaction we get. Even though the satisfaction we get when we put in effort far outweighs the effort put in. Therefore people convince themselves they'd rather do nothing. Or watch TV.

I've never heard of this Mihalyi Csikszentmihalyi person. He needs to simplify his name. But just googling him, I see he's a psychology professor, so he's probably someone who enjoys having a self-actualizing career. How do you or he know how much satisfaction proles get from their jobs? What makes you think a bus driver or a welder gets satisfaction that outweighs his effort?

I can do a job I love, not more than I want, and use it to support the rest of my life where I get other forms of fulfillment.

I think you're imputing your innate tendency and mode of thought to all people. If you can "love" a job, you're a member of an extreme minority.

The Nuns at school used to tell us "Idle hands are the devils play thing."

Work is therapuetic. And there is no denying that if you buy into behavioral models of depression, pleasure and mastery are key elements of mental health..or "self-actualization", if you will. I do not agree that "Nobody wants to work" , and there is much empirical data from the social sciences literature to disconfirm such a notion.

You just say that because you're a person who enjoys having a self-actualizing career.