Attrition rate at DO schools?

[studentp0x]

Any solid source that actually shows what percentage of students make it through all 4 years? And not something that breaks it down year by year...
Otherwise, guess best bet is first time boards passing rate + yearly attrition rate to get an idea?

Heard that some schools have policies about kicking you out for failing 2 systems in a year or something, so this got me curious. But I can't imagine anyone who had average or better stats coming in + has taken upper year science courses + didn't have any sudden major issues, would fail anything at all?

Anyway, was just curious.

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[hallowmann]

You could probably calculate it based on the year by year attrition stats that AACOM publishes. Alternatively, you could also just check the matriculants for one year, and graduates for 4 years after (but that will be an inflated number that includes people who take leaves or repeat a year). I believe the true attrition rate is somewhere around 5-10% for DO schools.

Also, people fail things. Med school is hard. On all of our important exams at least 3-20% fail. Sometimes our averages on some exams are as low as 71% (<70% is failing). That said, usually the final course averages are ~77%, so most people pass, but you better believe some fail.

Different schools have different policies of what to do when people fail. Some places like you mentioned dismiss you if you fail 2 courses in a year, others make you repeat the year, others just make you remediate the courses in the summer/break (you tend to have to do this regardless if you fail any course). It really depends on the school, but make sure you know their policies from the beginning, and make sure you work hard, stay on top of the material, and pass.

Really people fail for lots of reasons. Usually its some issue that comes up or they didn't expect how hard it would be. There's also the people who don't really want to be there or those that just change their minds about the whole thing. Those are usually the people that leave.

 

[studentp0x]

You could probably calculate it based on the year by year attrition stats that AACOM publishes. Alternatively, you could also just check the matriculants for one year, and graduates for 4 years after (but that will be an inflated number that includes people who take leaves or repeat a year). I believe the true attrition rate is somewhere around 5-10% for DO schools.

Also, people fail things. Med school is hard. On all of our important exams at least 3-20% fail. Sometimes our averages on some exams are as low as 71% (<70% is failing). That said, usually the final course averages are ~77%, so most people pass, but you better believe some fail.

Different schools have different policies of what to do when people fail. Some places like you mentioned dismiss you if you fail 2 courses in a year, others make you repeat the year, others just make you remediate the courses in the summer/break (you tend to have to do this regardless if you fail any course). It really depends on the school, but make sure you know their policies from the beginning, and make sure you work hard, stay on top of the material, and pass.

Really people fail for lots of reasons. Usually its some issue that comes up or they didn't expect how hard it would be. There's also the people who don't really want to be there or those that just change their minds about the whole thing. Those are usually the people that leave.

Interesting.

Any schools that are more "student friendly" and have high comlex passing rates? MSU I've heard is one..

 

[Petypet]

Every school has policies in place to prevent students from leaving, whether it be remediation of an exam, or repeating a year due to multiple deficiencies along the way. There are always students that fail a block here and there but from my experience it is the minority. Further, the students that totally drop out usually do so early on in their education, and from my n=4 experience they are students that were not quite mature enough to handle the work load (still partying thurs-sat).

I am not sure that the average rates are actually published, nor are the percent passings, etc. Those numbers are probably held close to the vest for numerous reasons, and are probably not 100% true due to factors like students having to wait to take said exams b/c of grades. A lot of schools just have a "passing rate" which is frankly worthless because passing the comlex is not really that helpful.

One thing I would look at is not how friendly a school is but their propensity to match students to good/exceptional residencies, which would be an independent measure of how well the students are prepared not only for boards but also for the clinic.

 

[hallowmann]

Interesting.

Any schools that are more "student friendly" and have high comlex passing rates? MSU I've heard is one..

Not sure what you mean by student friendly. It didn't really seem like I said something too outrageous (if you fail out of a curriculum it makes sense you'd be dismissed). Most schools are good about giving you extra chances, but you really need to work hard, and the second you feel yourself slipping, you need to seek help from faculty, tutors, etc (all before you fail).

My school has a very high COMLEX pass rate, but I'm not sure many would call it "student friendly".

 

[studentp0x]

Not sure what you mean by student friendly. It didn't really seem like I said something too outrageous (if you fail out of a curriculum it makes sense you'd be dismissed). Most schools are good about giving you extra chances, but you really need to work hard, and the second you feel yourself slipping, you need to seek help from faculty, tutors, etc (all before you fail).

My school has a very high COMLEX pass rate, but I'm not sure many would call it "student friendly".

I mean, which schools have more lenient policies. Like I've heard one DO school strictly dismisses you if you fail 2 systems 1st year while another school with that same policy.. rarely enforces it. Then you'd have some schools (I'm guessing) that have more lenient policies.

It's not that I'm assuming there's any chance I'd fail. But no one knows what life throws at you and I think school policies are something to factor in.

 

[Petypet]

I mean, which schools have more lenient policies. Like I've heard one DO school strictly dismisses you if you fail 2 systems 1st year while another school with that same policy.. rarely enforces it. Then you'd have some schools (I'm guessing) that have more lenient policies.

It's not that I'm assuming there's any chance I'd fail. But no one knows what life throws at you and I think school policies are something to factor in.

I would politely disagree. If you are worried about failing (when most school have like a 95+% graduation rate) then you should evaluate your study habits. Further, I am not sure all of the school's polices are easily obtainable common knowledge. There would be a lot of room for conjecture in this type of discussion.

I would factor in more, location (especially if you have a family), price, and opportunities post graduation. Every school will graduate you, but will you get where you need to be, and will you do it with minimal debt.

 

[hallowmann]

I mean, which schools have more lenient policies. Like I've heard one DO school strictly dismisses you if you fail 2 systems 1st year while another school with that same policy.. rarely enforces it. Then you'd have some schools (I'm guessing) that have more lenient policies.

It's not that I'm assuming there's any chance I'd fail. But no one knows what life throws at you and I think school policies are something to factor in.

What schools have you been accepted to? If you list them, people could chime in on their personal experience with that school's policy.

This sort of thing is only really important after the fact. If you haven't applied yet, apply anywhere you think you'd be interested in going to based on some/all of the things Petypet listed. Then after you get accepted to a subset of them, you can spend time on the smaller details that may make you choose one over the other (like policies/friendliness of staff).

 

[Petypet]

What schools have you been accepted to? If you list them, people could chime in on their personal experience with that school's policy.

This sort of thing is only really important after the fact. If you haven't applied yet, apply anywhere you think you'd be interested in going to based on some/all of the things Petypet listed. Then after you get accepted to a subset of them, you can spend time on the smaller details that may make you choose one over the other (like policies/friendliness of staff).

Except when you have to put down $500 to reserve a spot, like at some schools

 

[Siggy]

A lot of schools just have a "passing rate" which is frankly worthless because passing the comlex is not really that helpful.

For some reason my school is really proud of it's 99% COMLEX pass rate.*

*COMLEX Level 2 PE

 

[Goro]

it's actually harder to get our of medical school thasn into it. We tend to hang on to our students. At my school, we lose 1-2 a year, and most after year 2. We tend to make 5+ repeat a year due to poor performance. They rend ot come back stronger.

based upon posts here, plus AACOM info I have read, NYCOm seems to have the highest (>10%) attrition rate.

Board pass rate info, take with a grain of salt. Some schools "game" the system by preventing or delaying students from taking COMLEX. Actual scores are so secret the NSA can't even crack them!

Any solid source that actually shows what percentage of students make it through all 4 years? And not something that breaks it down year by year...
Otherwise, guess best bet is first time boards passing rate + yearly attrition rate to get an idea?

Heard that some schools have policies about kicking you out for failing 2 systems in a year or something, so this got me curious. But I can't imagine anyone who had average or better stats coming in + has taken upper year science courses + didn't have any sudden major issues, would fail anything at all?

Anyway, was just curious.

 

[studentp0x]

it's actually harder to get our of medical school thasn into it. We tend to hang on to our students. At my school, we lose 1-2 a year, and most after year 2. We tend to make 5+ repeat a year due to poor performance. They rend ot come back stronger.

based upon posts here, plus AACOM info I have read, NYCOm seems to have the highest (>10%) attrition rate.

Board pass rate info, take with a grain of salt. Some schools "game" the system by preventing or delaying students from taking COMLEX. Actual scores are so secret the NSA can't even crack them!

Interesting. And yep nycom is the one I've heard over and over again too. Can't understand why a school would even have a rate that high and not face disciplinary action.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

some schools are more strict than others, it's tough to say without finding people from each school and PM'ing them. Even doing that, you'll end up with bad info because the school can change their policies at any time, or for different people. I've known people dismissed after 1 failure due to repeated poor performance, I've known people with 3 who repeated the year...

 

[scummie]

While you shouldn't go into medical school already strongly considering the possibility you'll remediate, this is important stuff to think about. There's not many more depressing threads on this forum than people who are facing disciplinary action or academic dismissal. Like others have said, this information is usually kept on down-low and sometimes hard to find--at least the attrition rate #'s. Instead of looking at attrition rate, why not look at each school's remediation policy? Each place is different and will allow you to get a taste of what the culture would be like. You can usually find their student handbook through a google search. Also, I would not ask about any of this during your med school interview.

 

[oracle2]

I guess I don't see the major issue with "weeding out" students. I'm not trying to start a flame war because I'm applying to a mix of MD and DO schools myself, but isn't it fair to say that some people who get "weeded out" should have never been admitted to medical school in the first place? There are sharp people in DO programs, but I think it's fair to say that the range of abilities of the students is wider than at Harvard Medical School. Those who have the chops do well, and those who don't probably shouldn't be there because it's just going to get harder. Just like premed at a state school where a large percentage of the class is "weeded out". If you can't pass basic sciences, what are the implications for the boards? The school probably has an interest in weeding out the bottom of the class. This happens in the Caribbean and in other professional schools, like law school too. I've seen attrition rate as a reason not to attend places like nycom, but from talking to some people who go there a lot of those people realize they just aren't cut out for it.

 

[costales]

Don't know about NYCOM, but from what I saw at my school, almost everyone who failed out did so for personal reasons - basically either something very bad happened or they had a change of heart and decided to pursue a different career. There is nothing wrong with changing your mind about a career after a close-up look. This is not something adcoms can screen for.

 

[DocEspana]

Back in my student days probably had a 95% or higher retention rate. You lose like 5-7 people who leave early (in our case one came back the next year) because personal reasons and/or a realization that it wasn't for them came up.

During pre-clinical years a few people per year had to remediate. But it was very small. In the end I have to say that the reality is that a handful of people can't cut it or have family issues and weed themselves out in the first few months. Besides that, the school does everything it can to not lose a single student whenever possible.

 

[NurWollen]

Back in my student days probably had a 95% or higher retention rate. You lose like 5-7 people who leave early (in our case one came back the next year) because personal reasons and/or a realization that it wasn't for them came up.

During pre-clinical years a few people per year had to remediate. But it was very small. In the end I have to say that the reality is that a handful of people can't cut it or have family issues and weed themselves out in the first few months. Besides that, the school does everything it can to not lose a single student whenever possible.

This is pretty much how it is at my school as well. I know of two from my class who quit during the first couple days, one who quit after first quarter, and maybe six who are remediating first year. This is out of ~250 who started.

 

[schwasted589]

Dang. 5-7? I might be slightly exaggerating but I'm pretty sure my school has lost at least 10-15 so far.

 

[1lifeleft28]

it's actually harder to get our of medical school thasn into it. We tend to hang on to our students. At my school, we lose 1-2 a year, and most after year 2. We tend to make 5+ repeat a year due to poor performance. They rend ot come back stronger.

based upon posts here, plus AACOM info I have read, NYCOm seems to have the highest (>10%) attrition rate.

Board pass rate info, take with a grain of salt. Some schools "game" the system by preventing or delaying students from taking COMLEX. Actual scores are so secret the NSA can't even crack them!

Why do you lose the most after second year? Comlex? Transfers?

 

[hallowmann]

I guess I don't see the major issue with "weeding out" students. I'm not trying to start a flame war because I'm applying to a mix of MD and DO schools myself, but isn't it fair to say that some people who get "weeded out" should have never been admitted to medical school in the first place? There are sharp people in DO programs, but I think it's fair to say that the range of abilities of the students is wider than at Harvard Medical School. Those who have the chops do well, and those who don't probably shouldn't be there because it's just going to get harder. Just like premed at a state school where a large percentage of the class is "weeded out". If you can't pass basic sciences, what are the implications for the boards? The school probably has an interest in weeding out the bottom of the class. This happens in the Caribbean and in other professional schools, like law school too. I've seen attrition rate as a reason not to attend places like nycom, but from talking to some people who go there a lot of those people realize they just aren't cut out for it.

I think the issue is implying that because someone fails a course, that in some way indicates that they wouldn't pass the boards or just "aren't cut out for medicine". Many could make the argument that anyone who doesn't get into a US MD school isn't "cut out" for medicine, but lo and behold, there are thousands of DOs and US-IMGs that prove that they can be proficient, and *gasp* even excellent physicians after not getting into a US MD school.

Having a large attrition rate means that the education system at the school is not adequate to teach the material, the school lacks some form of support system for struggling students, the school is accepting too many students it knows can't succeed, or a combination of all three. Most US medical schools have a ton of support for their students. Most go out of there way to make sure a failing student succeeds. Not all medical schools have good remediation policies though, and a student that would succeed at one school may may never get that far at another because of it. Taking NYCOM for example, they have been known in the past to have a pretty harsh policy of fail 2 classes in MS1 and you're dismissed.

On top of that, given the cost of medical schools in the US (and Big 4 Caribbean for that matter), and given that most students use federal loans, I would hope that schools wouldn't go out of their way to create a huge population of highly indebted students with no prospects.

In any case, there are always people, who, for whatever reason, leave medical school. They realize that its not what they want to do, they want to focus on personal issues, etc. That's why the rate is usually 5-10%, but it really shouldn't be much higher than that.

Don't know about NYCOM, but from what I saw at my school, almost everyone who failed out did so for personal reasons - basically either something very bad happened or they had a change of heart and decided to pursue a different career. There is nothing wrong with changing your mind about a career after a close-up look. This is not something adcoms can screen for.

This is why some attrition is normal.

Dang. 5-7? I might be slightly exaggerating but I'm pretty sure my school has lost at least 10-15 so far.

How big is your class size? 10-15 might still be a small percentage if you are talking 250 students/class. We've lost ~8.5% of our starting class (some to repeating the year, some that just left, etc.), but some may have people that were already repeating the year. I doubt that number will grow above 10%, since classically very few people leave 2nd and 4th year, and only a handful might leave 3rd year.

 

[Mass Effect]

I guess I don't see the major issue with "weeding out" students. I'm not trying to start a flame war because I'm applying to a mix of MD and DO schools myself, but isn't it fair to say that some people who get "weeded out" should have never been admitted to medical school in the first place? There are sharp people in DO programs, but I think it's fair to say that the range of abilities of the students is wider than at Harvard Medical School. Those who have the chops do well, and those who don't probably shouldn't be there because it's just going to get harder. Just like premed at a state school where a large percentage of the class is "weeded out". If you can't pass basic sciences, what are the implications for the boards? The school probably has an interest in weeding out the bottom of the class. This happens in the Caribbean and in other professional schools, like law school too. I've seen attrition rate as a reason not to attend places like nycom, but from talking to some people who go there a lot of those people realize they just aren't cut

I disagree. You shouldn't be weeding people out in medical school. Failing a class in med school doesn't mean you aren't cut out to be a doctor, proven by the fact that NYCOM can lose a student to dismissal who turns around and graduates successfully from another medical school. Obviously, that person WAS cut out to be a doctor, but NYCOM's policy is too rigid and strict. Many schools have protocol in place to allow a struggling student to either repeat a year or spread out their 4 years over 5. Even many MD schools have that policy. It's there for a reason. If a student struggles, it doesn't automatically mean they can't cut it. It means they need help. Nothing more, nothing less. I have a big problem with schools that are eager to dismiss students.

 

[schwasted589]

I think the issue is implying that because someone fails a course, that in some way indicates that they wouldn't pass the boards or just "aren't cut out for medicine". Many could make the argument that anyone who doesn't get into a US MD school isn't "cut out" for medicine, but lo and behold, there are thousands of DOs and US-IMGs that prove that they can be proficient, and *gasp* even excellent physicians after not getting into a US MD school.

Having a large attrition rate means that the education system at the school is not adequate to teach the material, the school lacks some form of support system for struggling students, the school is accepting too many students it knows can't succeed, or a combination of all three. Most US medical schools have a ton of support for their students. Most go out of there way to make sure a failing student succeeds. Not all medical schools have good remediation policies though, and a student that would succeed at one school may may never get that far at another because of it. Taking NYCOM for example, they have been known in the past to have a pretty harsh policy of fail 2 classes in MS1 and you're dismissed.

On top of that, given the cost of medical schools in the US (and Big 4 Caribbean for that matter), and given that most students use federal loans, I would hope that schools wouldn't go out of their way to create a huge population of highly indebted students with no prospects.

In any case, there are always people, who, for whatever reason, leave medical school. They realize that its not what they want to do, they want to focus on personal issues, etc. That's why the rate is usually 5-10%, but it really shouldn't be much higher than that.



This is why some attrition is normal.



How big is your class size? 10-15 might still be a small percentage if you are talking 250 students/class. We've lost ~8.5% of our starting class (some to repeating the year, some that just left, etc.), but some may have people that were already repeating the year. I doubt that number will grow above 10%, since classically very few people leave 2nd and 4th year, and only a handful might leave 3rd year.

Yeah I guess our class size is kinda huge. I believe we were just under 235.

I disagree. You shouldn't be weeding people out in medical school. Failing a class in med school doesn't mean you aren't cut out to be a doctor, proven by the fact that NYCOM can lose a student to dismissal who turns around and graduates successfully from another medical school. Obviously, that person WAS cut out to be a doctor, but NYCOM's policy is too rigid and strict. Many schools have protocol in place to allow a struggling student to either repeat a year or spread out their 4 years over 5. Even many MD schools have that policy. It's there for a reason. If a student struggles, it doesn't automatically mean they can't cut it. It means they need help. Nothing more, nothing less. I have a big problem with schools that are eager to dismiss students.

I agree. I've always wondered how schools could even differentiate between people that are truly struggling and those that just aren't trying. I know a handful of people that didn't put in the work once they got in and were dismissed. They probably had the ability to handle it, had they studied, but they chose not to. Obviously, facing the board/dean that makes the decision of your fate, most of these people would say that they HAD tried but were just struggling.

I dunno, it's late and I"m just rambling.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Someone once told me about a student who dropped during first week because she didn't know you had to do a residency after graduation. She assumed you just made $$$ once you were done with the 4 years. Another applicant was more than ready to take her place.


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[sazerac]

Someone once told me about a student who dropped during first week because she didn't know you had to do a residency after graduation. She assumed you just made $$$ once you were done with the 4 years. Another applicant was more than ready to take her place.


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DO residents aren't paid?

 

[chizledfrmstone]

DO residents aren't paid?

Not $$$. Just $.


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[SLC]

We've had 3 students leave school completely from my class (at least that I'm aware of).

All 3 left on their own.

- One before week 1 of 1st year was over. (Decided to pursue another grad school option)
- One at the end of first semester. (Decided she didn't like med school enough to continue and pay the way we all do)
- One repeated first year, struggled the second time, and elected to drop out.

We had another 1st year repeater, and that student is on track to graduate the year after us I think.

I know of one other from the class below me who dropped out. There may be more, but I'm only aware of that one.

Our classes are ~110 students or so.

I guess that makes a 2.7% attrition rate from my class based on what I'm aware of.

 

[Goro]

Failure to pass COMLEX. This cohort tends to be our weakest students or people who get nailed by a bad life event.

Why do you lose the most after second year? Comlex? Transfers?

 

[Buckeye1992]

I was told by a second year at Bradenton that they lost 15/203 in their class but about half of them left during orientation week

 

[Dr. Zombie]

I was told by a second year at Bradenton that they lost 15/203 in their class but about half of them left during orientation week

7 during orientation week? Something tells me they might've gotten off MD waitlist based on when they decided to drop matriculation.

 

[SLC]

7 during orientation week? Something tells me they might've gotten off MD waitlist based on when they decided to drop matriculation.

A plausible explanation.

I know the student who dropped from our program during orientation week decided to go for a PhD instead.

 

[hallowmann]

7 during orientation week? Something tells me they might've gotten off MD waitlist based on when they decided to drop matriculation.

Likely, especially in FL where they have like a billion new MD schools.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Likely, especially in FL where they have like a billion new MD schools.

FL has only 7 MD schools, but three 0f them opened in the last 7 years... State like Illinois has also 7 for a smaller population...

 

[meliora27]

State like Illinois has also 7 for a smaller population...

And two of those happen to be some of the most competitive in the country

Northwestern (Feinberg)
UChicago (Pritzker)

UChicago holds the distinction of having more Nobel Laureates than any other institution in the world. Pretty cool fact I always thought.

 

[hallowmann]

FL has only 7 MD schools, but three 0f them opened in the last 7 years... State like Illinois has also 7 for a smaller population...

I was referring to the 4 "new MD schools" that opened in the last 14 years. In the MD world, where the average age of schools is like 50 years, anything in the last 20 years is essentially new. Also, I wasn't referring to the total number of MD schools, but the number of new ones.

In any case, 4 new MD schools in the last 14 years is more than any other state (but I think Michigan might be trying to beat that record).

 

[GolgeeDrinkRocks]

wow >10% at NYCOM? Would not want to go there...

 

[zachdwphoto]

You could probably calculate it based on the year by year attrition stats that AACOM publishes. Alternatively, you could also just check the matriculants for one year, and graduates for 4 years after (but that will be an inflated number that includes people who take leaves or repeat a year). I believe the true attrition rate is somewhere around 5-10% for DO schools.

Also, people fail things. Med school is hard. On all of our important exams at least 3-20% fail. Sometimes our averages on some exams are as low as 71% (<70% is failing). That said, usually the final course averages are ~77%, so most people pass, but you better believe some fail.

Different schools have different policies of what to do when people fail. Some places like you mentioned dismiss you if you fail 2 courses in a year, others make you repeat the year, others just make you remediate the courses in the summer/break (you tend to have to do this regardless if you fail any course). It really depends on the school, but make sure you know their policies from the beginning, and make sure you work hard, stay on top of the material, and pass.

Really people fail for lots of reasons. Usually its some issue that comes up or they didn't expect how hard it would be. There's also the people who don't really want to be there or those that just change their minds about the whole thing. Those are usually the people that leave.

So how many fail while giving it their best shot and still couldn't pass?

 

[hallowmann]

So how many fail while giving it their best shot and still couldn't pass?

Probably a small percentage. Maybe 1-3%. But honestly I have no idea. Adcoms do a good job of picking med students, and passing is not an impossible feat. Sometimes stuff happens, but don't worry so much that it overwhelms you, just worry enough that it motivates you to study hard.

 

[schwasted589]

Probably a small percentage. Maybe 1-3%. But honestly I have no idea. Adcoms do a good job of picking med students, and passing is not an impossible feat. Sometimes stuff happens, but don't worry so much that it overwhelms you, just worry enough that it motivates you to study hard.

For what it's worth, I was REALLY anxious about the attrition rate at my school when I heard about it. But I studied (probably less than I should have tbh) and made it through without even coming close to failing anything. Don't freak yourself out over it; but just know that you have to put work in.

 

[Mad Jack]

We lost 7 of 177 last year. All but one came back as first years this year, so only 1 of 177 was completely knocked out. Attrition is supposedly about 1% per year averaged over all four years, if you factor in people who repeat a year and end up completing medical school.

 

[schwasted589]

We lost 7 of 177 last year. All but one came back as first years this year, so only 1 of 177 was completely knocked out. Attrition is supposedly about 1% per year averaged over all four years, if you factor in people who repeat a year and end up completing medical school.

True out of our class of 200+ we lost I think 2-3

 

[user3]

I am curious as to the typical 4 year graduation rate. I looks as if at some schools, it is < 80%.

For example, Touro-NY matriculated 135 students into its first class on 2007. In 2011, only 107 (79%) graduated.
For LMU-DCOM, 122/160 of the first class appears to have graduated in 4 years (76%)
RVU: 126/159 (79%)

source: http://www.aacom.org/data/studentenrollment/Documents/2008-2013_AppEnrollGrad.pdf

 

[GUH]

COMP self-reports a typical 4-year completion rate in the mid-80's and an overall completion rate of 90-something percent for at least the past several years.
http://dashboard.westernu.edu/oir-charts/index.php

I am curious as to the typical 4 year graduation rate. I looks as if at some schools, it is < 80%.

For example, Touro-NY matriculated 135 students into its first class on 2007. In 2011, only 107 (79%) graduated.
For LMU-DCOM, 122/160 of the first class appears to have graduated in 4 years (76%)
RVU: 126/159 (79%)

source: http://www.aacom.org/data/studentenrollment/Documents/2008-2013_AppEnrollGrad.pdf

The 4-year rate at those schools is probably even lower, since those numbers presumably include all graduates that year, not just those who completed their degrees in four years.

 

[hallowmann]

I am curious as to the typical 4 year graduation rate. I looks as if at some schools, it is < 80%.

For example, Touro-NY matriculated 135 students into its first class on 2007. In 2011, only 107 (79%) graduated.
For LMU-DCOM, 122/160 of the first class appears to have graduated in 4 years (76%)
RVU: 126/159 (79%)

source: http://www.aacom.org/data/studentenrollment/Documents/2008-2013_AppEnrollGrad.pdf

You can't really look at a school's very first class and extrapolate meaningful info about 4yr grad rate (or attrition for that matter). When a school first starts out, not only is the initial class usually less impressive stat-wise, but even the school itself is going through a major transition and in a general state of flux. They're still figuring out how to do things. Ideally you're going to want the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. classes, and obviously you'd want multiple years to be in the calculation to normalize any year-specific variables.

Also, what are typical US MD school 4yr graduation rates? The more med students I meet, the more I suspect that many take a bit longer before they finish school, whether it's personal problems, academic problems, or even to take a leave for research to boost their CVs. I wouldn't be surprised if the 4yr grad rate for US MD schools was in the mid-high 80s, making 76-85% at DO schools not seem that ridiculous.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

COMP self-reports a typical 4-year completion rate in the mid-80's and an overall completion rate of 90-something percent for at least the past several years.
http://dashboard.westernu.edu/oir-charts/index.php

The 4-year rate at those schools is probably even lower, since those numbers presumably include all graduates that year, not just those who completed their degrees in four years.

Does anyone at COMP know if this projection of 4 years includes the students that do the 1-year OMM fellowship?

 

[235009]

Also, what are typical US MD school 4yr graduation rates? The more med students I meet, the more I suspect that many take a bit longer before they finish school, whether it's personal problems, academic problems, or even to take a leave for research to boost their CVs. I wouldn't be surprised if the 4yr grad rate for US MD schools was in the mid-high 80s, making 76-85% at DO schools not seem that ridiculous.

Taking more than 4 years to graduate because you took a research year or earned an additional degree (PhD, MPH, MBA, etc) is legitimate and an accomplishment that is applauded whereas taking more than 4 years because you were held back is a big red flag (though one that is very surmountable if you are coming from a US MD school). Point is that at DO schools the reason for taking >4 yrs to graduate is almost always a failure which is not the case at US MD schools so making the comparison of pure percentages is unfair and disingenuous. Typically at US MD schools <5% take more than 4 years to graduate for involuntary reasons. In my class it was 3% but if you count those who voluntarily took time off to complete a laudable endeavor that number would jump to ~15%

 

[hallowmann]

Taking more than 4 years to graduate because you took a research year or earned an additional degree (PhD, MPH, MBA, etc) is legitimate and an accomplishment that is applauded whereas taking more than 4 years because you were held back is a big red flag (though one that is very surmountable if you are coming from a US MD school). Point is that at DO schools the reason for taking >4 yrs to graduate is almost always a failure which is not the case at US MD schools so making the comparison of pure percentages is unfair and disingenuous. Typically at US MD schools <5% take more than 4 years to graduate for involuntary reasons. In my class it was 3% but if you count those who voluntarily took time off to complete a laudable endeavor that number would jump to ~15%

I know a lot of DOs that take voluntary leaves (personal reasons) and research years to beef up (that ones for you meat) their stats for the match. I definitely know more that do that than I know people that have had to repeat years. I also know 2 MD students that took "leaves" halfway into a semester because they were told by a Dean that they were failing and may need to take some time off.

I'm sure these things are very school specific (i.e. not just a DO vs. MD thing).

 

[user3]

Taking more than 4 years to graduate because you took a research year or earned an additional degree (PhD, MPH, MBA, etc) is legitimate and an accomplishment that is applauded whereas taking more than 4 years because you were held back is a big red flag (though one that is very surmountable if you are coming from a US MD school). Point is that at DO schools the reason for taking >4 yrs to graduate is almost always a failure which is not the case at US MD schools so making the comparison of pure percentages is unfair and disingenuous. Typically at US MD schools <5% take more than 4 years to graduate for involuntary reasons. In my class it was 3% but if you count those who voluntarily took time off to complete a laudable endeavor that number would jump to ~15%

Troll

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Taking more than 4 years to graduate because you took a research year or earned an additional degree (PhD, MPH, MBA, etc) is legitimate and an accomplishment that is applauded whereas taking more than 4 years because you were held back is a big red flag (though one that is very surmountable if you are coming from a US MD school). Point is that at DO schools the reason for taking >4 yrs to graduate is almost always a failure which is not the case at US MD schools so making the comparison of pure percentages is unfair and disingenuous. Typically at US MD schools <5% take more than 4 years to graduate for involuntary reasons. In my class it was 3% but if you count those who voluntarily took time off to complete a laudable endeavor that number would jump to ~15%

Trolling without knowing crap.

 

[costales]

Meh, same old shtick. Did a DO steal his cookies or something?