audition month

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NMH2001

Ferret Momma
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Would like to do an audition rotation at what I think will be my #1 choice, but unfortunately the only month available is December. I know it is too late to get LOR's then, but is there still much of an advantage to doing a rotation that late?

Thoughts?

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NMH2001 said:
Would like to do an audition rotation at what I think will be my #1 choice, but unfortunately the only month available is December. I know it is too late to get LOR's then, but is there still much of an advantage to doing a rotation that late?

Thoughts?

Well it won't get you an LOR that's worthwhile. On the other hand, if it's your #1, you'll be fresh in their minds!
 
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thanks for the replies.
Another thought...how many LOR's from ER physicians are needed? And from how many places? I have rotations set up in July and Sept (and hopefully now the one in Sept just for matching potential). Would it be stupid to drop one of the July or Sept ones?

Thoughts?
 
November, December are still good..
is January too late? and Feb??
 
Most (all?) programs want at least one LOR from an EP. If you only have one, it should be from someone that works with residents and has a role in resident selection. Personally, all three of my letters were from EPs; two from an away and one from my home rotation. If you choose to have LORs from other specialties, make sure to ask them to address qualities unique to EM--ability to adapt, multi-task, work independently, etc, as these are things that PDs will look for.

In terms of away rotations, I think there are really two reasons to do them: either you're rotating at a place where you really hope to match, or you're rotating at a place that's different from your home program (county vs. private vs. community, etc). For the latter reason, it makes the most sense to do this early. If it's a place where you really want to go, then December-February aren't too late, as it will still give you and the program a chance to evaluate each other. In fact, you should be a few months more "clinically mature" in Dec/Jan/Feb and may perform better as a result. Also, they're likely to have non-EMers rotating then, so you may compare favorably to other students. Obviously, you won't be able to get a letter, but if it's your numero uno, their opinion of you (and your's of them) is much more important than a LOR.
 
How do you guys already have away rotations set up?? Of the two places I want to go to, one would not even accept the application until this week; the other told me they will not look at anything until a bit later, although they already have my application.


Maybe its just a school dependent thing..
 
EM_Rebuilder said:
How do you guys already have away rotations set up?? Of the two places I want to go to, one would not even accept the application until this week; the other told me they will not look at anything until a bit later, although they already have my application.


Maybe its just a school dependent thing..

It is school/program dependent. However, I have been setting things up since january. The programs I'm in contact with now are full for the early months (july-nov). what EM programs are you looking at...EM usually opens early while medicine/peds/surgery/rads are a bit later.
streetdoc
 
NMH2001 said:
thanks for the replies.
Another thought...how many LOR's from ER physicians are needed? And from how many places? I have rotations set up in July and Sept (and hopefully now the one in Sept just for matching potential). Would it be stupid to drop one of the July or Sept ones?

Thoughts?

I would suggest that you get several LOR for you application, that way you can pick and choose which to use (as long as you don't waive the right to see it). Also some programs prefer the SLOR which can be found at: http://www.cordem.org/slor.htm


Wook
 
wook said:
I would suggest that you get several LOR for you application, that way you can pick and choose which to use (as long as you don't waive the right to see it). Also some programs prefer the SLOR which can be found at: http://www.cordem.org/slor.htm


Wook

Although this approach might work, I see it a little differently.

2 SLORs should make most places happy, particularly from two different programs. If possible, get the letters from the PD or the Chair. Not waiving your right to see it is a mistake. Most PDs will look at such a letter differently, fearing that the writer will not feel free to be frank.

Do your job. Arrange to work at least two shifts with each potential letter writer. Come to work early; stay late. Read about your patients. Ask if you can present an interesting case at conference. Be smooth at interpersonal relations. Make it clear that working with you for three years would be pleasant.

Early in the rotation, saying that your goal is a SLOR, ask for an advising appointment at the end of the month. At the advising session after discussing your month's experience and your goals and plans, ask the following question: "Do you think you can write a strong SLOR for me?" If the answer is yes (and it will be if you've done the above), the writer is committed to you. If the answer is no, thank him and move on. Everybody has somebody who likes them. You each can get a good letter if you plan it right.
 
I tried to get a letter from the PD at one place I rotated. But I never was able to schedule a shift with him. In the end, I asked for a letter from the night float guy who I ended up working with for about 1/3 of my shifts. I think this went over better than a letter from a "big name" who only worked with me once or twice.
 
I am doing an away rotation and the only available spot is in December. My concern is what if the program doesn't give me an interview? Has this happened to anyone before? and if so, did you still do the rotation?
 
what are the hottest months for interviews..?
 
Listen to BKN. You need at least one letter from someone doing just like he says. On the SLOR there is a part that asks how many people that writer has given letters and to rate you percentage-wise versus those other people. EM is a small community and it helps to know that you're in the top 10% of people PD of in-n-out burger has seen in the 2000 students he's ever worked with. THat being said, if Joe Shmoe EM doc writes you a letter about how gung ho you were that you've never been late, he never had to ask you to follow up on labs, you wrote up every chart and had a great differential and plan for every patient--that's a great addition to your file for a second letter versus a letter from a 2nd pd that says you're average.

Just show up early, stay late, work hard and follow up on your patients. Try to have differentials and plans to suggest, not just an H&P when you come out of a room...that'll set you apart...that and not disappearing with several patients on the board and none followed through. It's better to have few patients done well than a bunch of pots burning on the stove.....
 
BKN said:
Not waiving your right to see it is a mistake. Most PDs will look at such a letter differently, fearing that the writer will not feel free to be frank.

.
Is the waiving of the right to see the letter only pertinent to the SLOR?
Is there a way on eras to let PDs know that you did waive your rights, but your writer did not put that in the letter?

Example-
I chanted in the ear of our chief of surg. over and over "I do not want or need to see this letter. I am waiving my right to see it."
Last week the secretary in our clinical affairs office opens my folder and out fall two letters. I do this crazy man dance behind the desk in an effort to not view these holy tomes. She tells me, "oh you can see them, they didn't write anything about you waiving your right to review".
I asked her to put them in the 'secret place' where the letters that shall not be viewed are kept.
Are these letters, that I in fact have not seen, worthless?

Does anyone have any suggestions how I can salvage them without bugging my incredibly busy attendings to redraft these LORs?


Thanks
 
There should be a form found on ERAS that you print up and send to clin affairs. Check the box saying you waive the right to read the letters. This apparently gets put in your file. From there who the heck knows what is done with it.

Don't know if this was the answer you are looking for....
 
fuegorama said:
Is the waiving of the right to see the letter only pertinent to the SLOR?
Is there a way on eras to let PDs know that you did waive your rights, but your writer did not put that in the letter?

Example-
I chanted in the ear of our chief of surg. over and over "I do not want or need to see this letter. I am waiving my right to see it."
Last week the secretary in our clinical affairs office opens my folder and out fall two letters. I do this crazy man dance behind the desk in an effort to not view these holy tomes. She tells me, "oh you can see them, they didn't write anything about you waiving your right to review".
I asked her to put them in the 'secret place' where the letters that shall not be viewed are kept.
Are these letters, that I in fact have not seen, worthless?

Does anyone have any suggestions how I can salvage them without bugging my incredibly busy attendings to redraft these LORs?


Thanks

I believe that, as per the eras website, there are two ways for eras to mark your letters as "waived to see".

1) accompanied by eras document submission form with the appropriate box checked AND stating that the student waived their rights in the letter

OR

2) waived box checked on eras form AND sent directly from the letter writer (i.e. Univ. of Whatever envelope)

Check the website to be sure though.
 
m3rkury said:
I am doing an away rotation and the only available spot is in December. My concern is what if the program doesn't give me an interview? Has this happened to anyone before? and if so, did you still do the rotation?

m3rkury:

Yes, and yes. I was offered an interview AFTER the rotation was done. So, if you're serious about a place, I woud suggest doing the rotation. Not every place you do a rotation will offer you a "courtesy" interview. Some programs still do this, but I know that at least two programs I was interested in did not offer courtesy interviews.

Wook
 
would "ideal" letters be from the PD or the Chairman?
 
mfleur said:
would "ideal" letters be from the PD or the Chairman?

From somebody you worked with, knows you well, and can accurately comment on you. Too many people want letters from "big names" that could end up being really general, especially if the person barely knows you.
 
mfleur said:
would "ideal" letters be from the PD or the Chairman?

An ideal letter would be from a PD or Chair who knows you well. Say you went to El Paso and did 4 shifts with BKN and BKN thought you did a solid job.

Now a less than ideal letter is getting a letter from Dr Fatty McFattypants at the ultra exculsive In N Out Burger residency. He heard from a few people that you were OK. He never met you except at the bagel stand where you nervously went up to him and introduced yourself. This is not a letter that will help you at all.

All that being said most people will tell you they arent "comfortable" writing you a letter if it is gonna suck. I fortunately never ran into this problem but I can tell you a good friend of mine who did match into a prestigious EM spot had an open letter from a PD and it was less than flattering.

Hope my rambling helps!
 
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