Average GPA IN dental school

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just curious to see what the average gpa's are out there and what kinda gpa allows you to fall into top 20% of your class. I gotta feeling that the GPA at my school is really inflated and wanted to get a feeling of whats out there.
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For what it's worth, I just finished my first semester with a 3.0, and by all indications I've seen I'm almost exactly in the middle in class rank. I wouldn't be able to venture a reliable guess as to where the top quintile ends.
 
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I'm in my 4th year, our class GPA ranges from 3.8-2.3. A 3.0 will get you around 50th (out of 75) in our class, but 30th (out of 70) in the class behind us. # 2 has a 3.6, # 20 has a 3.3
 
A 3.8 at Temple gets you #8 overall out of 124. Not sure how close the ranks are though....like would a 3.75 drop you down to #20....not sure
 
Well, since you asked..

My class has 78 students.

After first semester first year I had a 3.624 and was ranked 9th.

After second semester first year I had a 3.729 and was ranked 4th.

After first semester second year I had 3.738 and was ranked 3rd.

After second semester second year I have a 3.737 and my rank will probably go up or down one or stay the same.
 
Dan, looks like you're doing extremely well in dental school. Keep it up!
 
Dan, This is the time for you to think about specialty school if you are interested. #2 and #3 in my class elected to be GPs. One had dad and the other a husband as dentists. #1 went to ortho. #4-12 went GP and #13 to OS. (Don't ask me how I remember, I just do, it's weird)

Look into endo or ortho with your good grades. Perio and OS is hard work :). Pedo is for nuts:laugh:
 
Well, let me be the person on the other end of the spectrum! :D My GPA has been going steadily downhill since the dawn of my dental school experience. I'm definitely under 3.0. I've gotten my fair share of C's. It's hard to keep the momentum going, if ya know what I mean..........
 
The problem with a lot of dental schools is that during 3rd and 4th years, how good your grades are depends on other things not under your control.

I had a kick-ass GPA during my first two years of dental school, when your grades are TOTALLY under your control-- Study well, and you will get good grades in those didactics courses. Put in extra time in the preclinic labs to spiff up your projects, and you will get good grades.

Not so in 3rd and 4th years, when other things not under your control enters the picture: You might not be able to get enough patients to fulfill a particular requirement. Your patients may not show up. The patient might have defaulted on his/her payments which bars you from doing further work on them. When these things happen, one's grades drop.

Plenty of students in my school who kicked ass and took names during freshman and sophomore years suffered as juniors and seniors, and it is certainly not for lack of trying. :mad:

I'm sure this is the situation at a LOT of schools though, not unique to mine.

There are also lots of guys who did great because they got lucky with good patients, or they got relatives who live nearby who can receive dental work at the school with a significant discount. No such luck for me.. My relatives live 400 miles away. Grrr...

I had a good run in my junior year with dependable patients, but I'm hating my 4th year because it seems they assigned half of all the most unreliable patients in the school to me.
+pissed+
 
Thanks for the encouragement everyone!

thisisit, I have been thinking about specializing but I am no where close to a decision about I would like to do. I think I am going to have to wait until I'm in the clinic more and see how I feel then. Another complication is that I have the 4 year military scholarship so if I were to specialize with the Army I would owe them additional time. I think that there might be a chance of going to a civilian specialty school and defering my entrying into active duty but if it exists it is a small chance. Otherwise, unless I really like the military life, I would have to serve my four years and then apply to a speciality school. Does anyone know how much specialty schools look at your dental school grads if you were to apply after being out of school for four years?
 
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I do not know how well this answers your question, but the OMFS that extracted my third molars was an army dentist for six years after dental school. He then left the military and did a four year OMFS residency. From what I've gathered from our conversations (I shadowed him for a couple hours as well) that his military experience only helped him gain admitance to the specialty program. He told me during our last conversation that most of the patients he saw during his time in the military never had their wisdom teeth extracted so he did them for him. He boasted that this experience allowed him to be as fast as the department head of the OMFS unit at the hospital he did his residency at.

I'm going to go see him this wednesday, so if you have any questions about specializing via military I can certainly forward them.
 
Originally posted by Midoc
Does anyone know how much specialty schools look at your dental school grads if you were to apply after being out of school for four years?
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I'm under the impression that they hardly look at them at all. They take them into consideration, but your experiences as a practicing dentist weigh much more heavily. They assume you've become experienced AND worked on the types of cases that involve the specialty you are pursuing, so grades typically aren't much of an issue.
 
I would have to disagree with Gavin and say it depends on the specialty. With endo, practice experience can be more important than grades. With perio I would venture the same. Ortho is still different however...grades and class rank will matter even if you apply 20 years from now...true, they won't matter as much as if you would have applied right out of dental school, but they will still matter a lot. Though private practice will help, it will not be weighed more heavily than grades. I know several dentists who have practiced 10+ years and applied to ortho for several years in a row and still been unsuccessful in getting a spot. From my oral surgery interviews it seems that they value oral surgery internships, GPR's, and military service, but not private practice as much...so only the right time spent out of dschool is valued more than grades. I know one candidate who did a GPR and three years of private practice and never got any interviews...after he did 2 1-year length oral surgery internships he got several.
 
I have around a 3.63 after first semester of 2nd year and I'm ranked around 20. I have smart classmates.

Then again, there are a lot us (around 15 of us) are are tenth of a point from one another which will bump you up or down several spots in the class ranking ladder.

My goal is to earn a 90 on everything, if that renders me at a 55th spot in the ranking game, then oh well! At least, I maintained and acheived my goal.
 
The thing to keep in mind about specialty is that it's all about supply and demand. Even if you graduated 10 years prior to applying for programs, your grades are still going to matter. Experience isn't going to compensate for a mediocre academic record, especially when you are competing with a lot of other applicants for the same coveted positions. Experience is usually valued by program directors, but to say that grades no longer matter is wishful thinking.
For a specialty like Pros, there are a number of programs that struggle to fill their spots. In that case, those programs will consider most qualified applicants. But a lot of other specialties still have the luxury of choosing from among a pool of killer hopefuls. For example, even though a lot of programs won't look at Endo applicants straight out of school since having experience is the norm for this field, the whole applicant cycle simply shifts in time. Most applicants are going to have at least a few years under their belt, so your experience isn't going to really give you a edge. It's simply going to meet the 'minimum' requirements for consideration. Once they decide to consider your application, the focus will once again shift to your academic qualifications.
True that programs are looking for mature residents to work with. But they still need measuring sticks to evaluate intellectual capacity, achievement, and the promise to work hard.
I've known Ortho and Endo applicants that applied 5 straight years until they got accepted, and they weren't exactly weak applicants. But each year, they had to add things to bolster their app, whether it be research, publications, teaching experience, etc. Experience always helps out the strength of an application, but it doesn't prevent program directors from evaluating your academic standing, especially if they have a ton of applicants to choose from. If you did well in school, and you've been out 10 years and still want to specialize, that experience will usually help, not hurt your chances. It's all about supply and demand.......
 
Mark Fitzsimmons, I do not have any questions I can think of right now but I'm sure I will think of some eventually. Do you think you could get me his email address and ask if he minds me asking him questions?

Thanks
 
I guess Michigan is easy compared to some of your schools. After my first semester I got a 3.92. Im pretty sure that plenty of people did better than that. We can't get our class rank or anything unless we petition for it. Anyway, I would guess my rank to be around 15 or less.

I know at least one person has a 4.0.
 
Originally posted by Yah-E

My goal is to earn a 90 on everything, if that renders me at a 55th spot in the ranking game, then oh well! At least, I maintained and acheived my goal.
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Andy, you are doing excellent. A 90 at my school (on exams) is nearly unheard of. Our averages seem to fall between 60-70, with highs usually in the low 90s. Those highs are usually earned by only a couple of people.
 
My question is, how often can you guys get your class rank. Being a new school in LV I am having a hard time finding out. They are telling me they will only rank us at the end of every year. Also, there seems to be some confusion as to whether we will be ranked by GPA or class %.
By the way, #1 at UNLV = 3.93, after first year.
 
Tufts only ranks their students at the end of every academic year, so we won't know where we all stand till July.
 
It almost seems that we're ranked whenever they get around to it. It took over a month after the first semester was done before I found out what my rank was. And I didn't get the second semesters rankings until after thrid semester was over.
 
we get ranked each semester, and can get the number about 1 week after the semester ends.
 
Originally posted by h213
How about Penn?
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As a first year, we haven't had our class rank or average gpa done yet. But the last few classes have generally been around a 3.7 class average at the end of the first year.

the school only ranks the top 10 in the class as a result of a narrow range.
 
Originally posted by NC2PA
As a first year, we haven't had our class rank or average gpa done yet. But the last few classes have generally been around a 3.7 class average at the end of the first year.

the school only ranks the top 10 in the class as a result of a narrow range.
Click to expand...

See, this shows that GPA in dental school means very little. The average GPA at Penn is 3.7 after first year? What's up with that? I find it very hard to believe that the majority of the students are so overprepared that they get As on every exam. Are they afraid to give out Bs b/c the students will be upset? I'm going by 4.0 = A, 3.0 = B, 2.0 = C. A 3.7 means that they give out way more As than Bs, and very few Cs. Unless your school has the +/- system where you could earn a A+ or a B- or a C+ like in undergrad.

Why does the school even bother to rank the top 10 then?
 
i don't think the school is afraid to give out B's b/c there's definitely students who are struggling through school. Penn has mandatory tutoring for students who aren't doing well, and everyone else here studies pretty hard. i guess those grades are the result of the price tag. everyone's making sure they get their money's worth.

Also, we're not on a traditional block schedule. Our courses have staggered start and stop times so that we only focus on 1-2 tests per week. That allows for a lot of attention toward each subject. We're never overwhelmed with 4 or 5 tests in one week.

to say that our GPAs don't mean much is a bit unfair because none of us are coasting through school. Believe it or not we do learn the same material as every other school. Besides, our board scores and residency placement should attest to the strength of our program.
 
See, this shows that GPA in dental school means very little. The average GPA at Penn is 3.7 after first year? What's up with that? I find it very hard to believe that the majority of the students are so overprepared that they get As on every exam. Are they afraid to give out Bs b/c the students will be upset? I'm going by 4.0 = A, 3.0 = B, 2.0 = C. A 3.7 means that they give out way more As than Bs, and very few Cs. Unless your school has the +/- system where you could earn a A+ or a B- or a C+ like in undergrad.
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I'm a first year at Penn also, and first off, I should mention that we only earned grades in three classes at the end of December. Because Penn has a scattered class system whereby classes start and end at random times throughout the year (thereby avoiding a block of finals and instead having 1-2 tests a week), we had only finished histology, biochemistry and one radiology course by the time first semester grades were ready. In the next three weeks, we finish gross anatomy, another radiology course, microbiology and physiology.

Anyway, it's true that the grades in our first three classes were very high (probably around a 3.7 average, as mentioned). I would bet that the average grades in the next few courses will be lower (probably closer to a 3.3 or 3.4). Test averages have started to drop more significantly (into the B+/B range), so I would anticipate a slight drop overall in grades.

Still, while I have found the grading here lots easier than my undergrad (University of Washington, where, even when curved, the average grades given were usually around a 2.5-2.7), I feel my class is a lot smarter and more well prepared for exams than in my average undergrad course (even in more advanced ones). Regardless, I still know it's more easily graded than other dental schools, but the same thing happened when comparing undergrads. Some people here at Penn came from undergrads where they earned 4.0s, which would have been impossible for someone to earn at UW. The DAT helped, therefore, to attempt to evaluate how much we actually knew. As far as +/-, Penn will allow you to earn an A+ (called "honors"), B+ or C+ (worth 4.0, 3.5 and 2.5, respectively), but not an A- or B-.
 
Thanks NC2PA and bort for clearing that up. I don't doubt that Penn is teaching you what it takes to get through the dental curriculum

I still stand by my statement that GPA doesn't mean as much, but I guess it's more applicable to schools where everyone is ranked. If they did rank everyone at your school after first year, then a 3.7 would be #45 while at my school, a 3.7 after first year would be #6. On paper, that 3.7 looks impressive, but if you look at class rank, the 3.7 is more impressive from the student who is ranked #6.

However, my above paragraph just goes to show how ridiculous rank is anyways. I'm not a fan of it, but it's not going away so just go along and play the game.

Since were looking at different grading systems, there is a difference in the GPA from your school versus mine (speaking in terms of #s). Univ. at Buffalo: A = 4.0, B = 3.0, C = 2.0, no +/- system. I always figured a 3.5 is somewhere between an A-/B+. But at UPenn: A+ = 4.0, B+ = 3.5, C+ = 2.5. That would skew the GPAs somewhat then.

Until now, I didn't realize that some dental schools give out +/- grades.
 
Originally posted by griffin04


I still stand by my statement that GPA doesn't mean as much, but I guess it's more applicable to schools where everyone is ranked. If they did rank everyone at your school after first year, then a 3.7 would be #45 while at my school, a 3.7 after first year would be #6. On paper, that 3.7 looks impressive, but if you look at class rank, the 3.7 is more impressive from the student who is ranked #6.
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I do agree with you that class rank is a much better indicator than gpa. Still, I'm not sure how you can say that gpa doesn't mean much. Are you on the admissions board for post-grad programs? Do you sit there and see the criteria they use? If not, then what you are stating is merely and opinion, and nothing more. Class rank, while a better indicator, has some of the same fallbacks as gpa. A student going to one school versus another, if they put the same amount of effort and work in, could be ranked in the top 10% and one school, while 30% at the other. How do you gauge that? There are schools that have smarter students. I'm not naming any schools, so I would hope the flamers avoid that comment. But you have to admit, some classes on the whole are smarter. That's why specialty programs take into account gpa, boards, rank, research, extracurriculars, and your interview. It's the same as it was for dental school. Regardless of where you went, your gpa, class rank, and board scores will either get your foot in the door or not. Once it gets you in, it's up to you to impress in the interview.
 
Originally posted by NC2PA
i don't think the school is afraid to give out B's b/c there's definitely students who are struggling through school.
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Not if the AVERAGE freshman GPA is 3.7!! That means the bulk of the class is sitting between 4.0-3.4.
 
DcS -

No, I'm not on the admissions board for any post-grad programs (yet). However, my friends and I have all just been through the post-grad application process ourselves. I don't know for sure all the criteria they use, but we were all victims to the criteria to make it to the interview stage. Everything I write is obviously my opinion, however, I am basing it on my experience having applied & interviewed for a specialty & GPRs. I think that holds a little more credibility than a first year dental student posting whether GPA or rank is more important for post-grad.

Here's an anecdote for ya - One of my friends was asked at an ortho interview "You have a 95 board score; then why is your class rank and GPA so low?" Low? The student is #10 with a 3.6 GPA. I interpret this as the program expecting a high GPA to correlate with a high rank. IMO, a 3.7 is a high GPA, but if it correlates to a #45 out of 90 rank, then it isn't regarded as being that high.

It's impossible to gauge a student's potential based on their ability to memorize or kiss butt and get graded on it. That' s why I said rank is cruel. Some of the more clinically talented and personable students may get passed up for a specialty they would probably excel in all because they didn't memorize the function of the soleus & lumbrical muscles in Anatomy to get that A (if you've forgotten, those muscles are nowhere near the head & neck and have no application in dentistry EVER).
 
I'd have to agree with my other collegues, while the average class rank might be a 3.7, there is def no shortage of kids that are well under that. Like NC2PA said if you fall under a 70% in any class, which is failing, there is free tutoring, and at least 10% of the class is always in there, for one class or the other. I would say the top 10% right now all probably have 4.0's. But they. as well as everyone def bust their asses. I took all the classes we are currently taking in undergrad, study a lot and am sitting with well under a 4.0 or even 3.7. I would have to agree with NC2Pa there really is no one in this school who believes C=degree like other dental schools have. I thikn it is based on the caliber of students they admit, as well as the cost issue. No one is going to pay $45,000 a year to cruise by, hence why 40%+ in every class specialize. Most people might not end up specializing, but I know almost everyone is trying to keep the option open.
 
Originally posted by griffin04
Thanks NC2PA and bort for clearing that up. I don't doubt that Penn is teaching you what it takes to get through the dental curriculum

I still stand by my statement that GPA doesn't mean as much, but I guess it's more applicable to schools where everyone is ranked. If they did rank everyone at your school after first year, then a 3.7 would be #45 while at my school, a 3.7 after first year would be #6. On paper, that 3.7 looks impressive, but if you look at class rank, the 3.7 is more impressive from the student who is ranked #6.

However, my above paragraph just goes to show how ridiculous rank is anyways. I'm not a fan of it, but it's not going away so just go along and play the game.

Since were looking at different grading systems, there is a difference in the GPA from your school versus mine (speaking in terms of #s). Univ. at Buffalo: A = 4.0, B = 3.0, C = 2.0, no +/- system. I always figured a 3.5 is somewhere between an A-/B+. But at UPenn: A+ = 4.0, B+ = 3.5, C+ = 2.5. That would skew the GPAs somewhat then.

Until now, I didn't realize that some dental schools give out +/- grades.
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Maybe grades do mean a lot to specialty programs and that's why UPenn has so much success with placing students into specialty. For example, a kid with 5 credits of A's and 15 credits of high B's at one school comes out of the semester with a 3.25 while the same performance at Penn results in a 3.63. That is a HUGE difference and one that is unlikely to be ignored by a program director - especially if class rank is similar.

I have told people on these boards in the past that your choice of school has very little bearing on your ability to specialize; choose the cheapest and do well there - that's what I had been told and I believed it. But now I can see that it matters a great deal. If you know you really have the desire to specialize choose your school wisely.

I am pretty much dead set on general dentistry so I am glad I chose my cheapest option, but for some it may be worth spending the extra dough on a school like Penn.
Just some thoughts.
 
Originally posted by Supernumerary
For example, a kid with 5 credits of A's and 15 credits of high B's at one school comes out of the semester with a 3.25 while the same performance at Penn results in a 3.63.
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My numbers came out to be a 3.48 and a 3.63. What am I doing wrong?

A = 4.0 and B+ = 3.3
 
Originally posted by Supernumerary
Maybe grades do mean a lot to specialty programs and that's why UPenn has so much success with placing students into specialty. For example, a kid with 5 credits of A's and 15 credits of high B's at one school comes out of the semester with a 3.25 while the same performance at Penn results in a 3.63. That is a HUGE difference and one that is unlikely to be ignored by a program director - especially if class rank is similar.
Click to expand...

Supernumerary, the example you give shows why rank is such a bigger deal than GPA. The 3.63 looks good, but if both applicants are ranked 10/90, then they'll probably be viewed the same b/c one school offered the +/- system allowing the GPA to be higher. And if the student with the 3.25 is ranked #1/90 while the 3.63 is ranked #15/90 at their schools, I'd bet a lot of money that the #1 student will rake in the interviews for something like ortho faster than the #15 (I've seen it happen).

I still disagree than you have to shell out the big bucks at a school like Harvard or Penn to specialize. You have no way of knowing where you will be ranked in dental school till you start and complete your first two semesters. All dental schools are tough and require effort & commitment to do well. It is near impossible to control your GPA in dental school like you could in undergrad - like balance the tough Organic Chem class where you get a B with the easy A in the Writing for the Illiterate class so you have more time to study for Orgo. Everyone takes the same classes at the same time with the same professors, so if you are there to try and rank high, you are basically competing with everyone in your class - again, unlike undergrad.

You can start at any dental school with a goal - "I might like to be an Oral Surgeon so I will work hard to attain that goal." However, you have to be able to say with 95% confidence "I can be happy as a general practitioner" or else shelling out the bucks for a hope to specialize at Penn can be disastrous.

These boards are great, but sometimes I think it's "too much info" for a pre-dent. The majority of students who graduate from dental school will practice general dentistry. But sometimes I feel like when I read the pre-dent posts that they are all super-gung ho: must get into uber-competitive dental school, must specialize b/c it's not cool if I don't, must attend school with highest average on the Part I boards regardless of other factors, etc. Most pre-dents don't have any experience with patients and it is hard to understand that while it's good to have numerical goals in dentistry (like high board scores & GPAs), the #1 goal should be caring for the patient.
 
Originally posted by ItsGavinC
My numbers came out to be a 3.48 and a 3.63. What am I doing wrong?

A = 4.0 and B+ = 3.3
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I was going with the B+ = 3.5 versus schools like mine and griffin's that only offer A, B, C, D, F.

Supernumerary, the example you give shows why rank is such a bigger deal than GPA.
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I agree with you completely, Griffin. At least I agree that is why rank should be a bigger deal. I don't know if that's necessarily the case, though. I mean, if I can believe what I read on this board people from Penn and Harvard are getting into ortho and endo with rankings well outside of the top ten, sometimes outside of the top twenty. That simply would not happen for students coming from State U. I could easily be completely off base here, but these are just my thoughts.
 
Originally posted by Supernumerary
I mean, if I can believe what I read on this board people from Penn and Harvard are getting into ortho and endo with rankings well outside of the top ten, sometimes outside of the top twenty.
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1) Harvard is P/F. If you come from a P/F school without a rank, your boards and other components will be scrutinized more (ie: they might actually read your essay & LOR) b/c they can't just discriminate based on rank.

2) Penn only assigns you a rank if you fall in the top 10. I forget who posted it, but I read it somewhere on this board. Anyone outside the top 10 doesn't get a number, but if their GPA is still reported, then the 2.0 student isn't going to be looked at the same as the 3.7 classmate.
 
resurrected due to ortho thread.

Anybody else from other schools??
 
Bump! I am curious to see the numbers for today's schools. GPA & class ranking if you know it!
 
3.8 during 2nd year = 30th percentile
 
Last edited:
Currently entering third year with a few graded classes left.... 4.0; needless to say there were many long nights. I think top ten is around a 3.8
 
BUMP ! Average GPA's after 3rd year dental school ? Anybody willing to share ?
 
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