Being content with being Average or below Average in med school

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EMDO2018

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Did you accept you were average or below right away or did you fight it a bit? For those of you on the other side of the bell curve..... congratulations. And if you can't stand out academically, how are you suppose to standout. I'm not really into running for student government or anything.

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Why do you need to stand out? I'm full on blending in the background now, no matter what my grades are.
 
@TheShaker Part of me feels that being content with just passing is not a healthy mind state to have, if I had that mind state in undergrad, I would have never made it to med school. The thing is, in undergrad I knew if I worked harder than everybody, I'd be at the top of the class. But in med school, the place is full of intellectual heavyweights that don't seem to need sleep, the biological limits are too much to overcome.
 
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Did you accept you were average or below right away or did you fight it a bit? For those of you on the other side of the bell curve..... congratulations. And if you can't stand out academically, how are you suppose to standout. I'm not really into running for student government or anything.
Pretty much content with it straight away. I got a 67 on my first anatomy test. I know I could've worked a little harder to get in the 70s, and a lot harder to get in the 80s, but it didn't seem worth it to me. My school is H/P/F, so if I have to bust my ass and give up every moment of free time to get the H, I'll gladly take the P. Once I'm getting the P, I don't really care if it's a 89.9 or a 65.1. I just rationalize it by saying I could do better if I tried harder. It's easy.
 
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if you can't stand out academically, how are you suppose to standout. I'm not really into running for student government or anything.

Clinical year grades/LORs, research, connections, leadership/volunteer activities
 
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Peeps at the top during the first 2 years in the classroom are not necessarily always the same ones who are at the top in the last 2 years in the clinics.


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Peeps at the top during the first 2 years in the classroom are not necessarily always the same ones who are at the top in the last 2 years in the clinics.


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But being near the top first 2 years makes prepping for boards so much easier. Even if you aren't in the top 10% or whatever, pushing yourself to learn everything will make board prep immensely easier. Slacking in the first year will only limit your choices later.
 
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But being near the top first 2 years makes prepping for boards so much easier. Even if you aren't in the top 10% or whatever, pushing yourself to learn everything will make board prep immensely easier. Slacking in the first year will only limit your choices later.

Agree wholeheartedly.
 
But being near the top first 2 years makes prepping for boards so much easier. Even if you aren't in the top 10% or whatever, pushing yourself to learn everything will make board prep immensely easier. Slacking in the first year will only limit your choices later.

Agree
 
I don't generally recommend this, but you might be someone who would benefit from a longer term boards prep approach starting now in first year. Pass your classes but use some extra time for something like firecracker or an anki first aid deck. Continue this up through step 1. A solid 240+ step 1 will go a long way toward negating average preclinical grades.

If you're interested in competitive specialties, early networking and research can help a lot too. In some fields they are a de facto requirement.

In my experience, the top students preclinically are also top students clinically, though there are some exceptions.
 
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But being near the top first 2 years makes prepping for boards so much easier. Even if you aren't in the top 10% or whatever, pushing yourself to learn everything will make board prep immensely easier. Slacking in the first year will only limit your choices later.
Agree wholeheartedly.
Agree wholeheartedly.
Depending on what details are emphasized in your professor's powerpoints.
 
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I don't generally recommend this, but you might be someone who would benefit from a longer term boards prep approach starting now in first year. Pass your classes but use some extra time for something like firecracker or an anki first aid deck. Continue this up through step 1. A solid 240+ step 1 will go a long way toward negating average preclinical grades.

If you're interested in competitive specialties, early networking and research can help a lot too. In some fields they are a de facto requirement.

In my experience, the top students preclinically are also top students clinically, though there are some exceptions.
The wrath of SDN is now upon you. Prepping for boards in first year - blasphemy!!!
 
Peeps at the top during the first 2 years in the classroom are not necessarily always the same ones who are at the top in the last 2 years in the clinics.


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I know this helps people sleep better at night, but there are people who are the very tip top of the class in MS-1/MS-2 and again in MS-3. MS-3 isn't sudden magic where everything flips and the MS-1/MS-2 dunces suddenly catapult to the top of the class.
 
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Depending on what details are emphasized in your professor's powerpoints.

I feel like this point is way overblown on SDN. Even the absolute worst lecturers I had did not neglect the big picture. Some may have or relied more heavily or less heavily on minutiae as well, but not to the degree that people seem to suggest on here.

Doing very well during the first two years in class suggests that not only have you studied and learned much of the material, but you also have the capacity to learn the more detailed nuances/facts, which often separate the 230/240s and the 250/260s of the world.
 
I feel like this point is way overblown on SDN. Even the absolute worst lecturers I had did not neglect the big picture. Some may have or relied more heavily or less heavily on minutiae as well, but not to the degree that people seem to suggest on here.

Doing very well during the first two years in class suggests that not only have you studied and learned much of the material, but you also have the capacity to learn the more detailed nuances/facts, which often separate the 230/240s and the 250/260s of the world.
Yes, but unless you're someone who can do both at the same time or have a "true" P/F grading system, as a student, you will be more likely to study and master things when a professor presents it in class or it is in his course pack as those things are necessary to ace course exams. That's just the way the incentives are set up in the system. It can be difficult to juggle studying the details necessary for doing well in a class AND studying information that is high yield for boards but aren't present anywhere in class materials.

I would say the study strategy and skills to getting a 260 (2 standard deviations above the mean) are quite different than getting a 240 (1 standard deviation above the mean). I do agree with you that those at the tip-top of the class were pulling in high 250s/260s but whether that's correlation or causation, I don't know.
 
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Did you accept you were average or below right away or did you fight it a bit? For those of you on the other side of the bell curve..... congratulations. And if you can't stand out academically, how are you suppose to standout. I'm not really into running for student government or anything.
What does student government have to do with grades?
 
@TheShaker Part of me feels that being content with just passing is not a healthy mind state to have, if I had that mind state in undergrad, I would have never made it to med school. The thing is, in undergrad I knew if I worked harder than everybody, I'd be at the top of the class. But in med school, the place is full of intellectual heavyweights that don't seem to need sleep, the biological limits are too much to overcome.
Or you're just studying inefficiently or you're not used to long periods of studying.
 
I know this helps people sleep better at night, but there are people who are the very tip top of the class in MS-1/MS-2 and again in MS-3. MS-3 isn't sudden magic where everything flips and the MS-1/MS-2 dunces suddenly catapult to the top of the class.

Ye, I mean, I'm a dunce and everyone says I'm going to fk up MS-3 as well.
 
Ye, I mean, I'm a dunce and everyone says I'm going to fk up MS-3 as well.
Your classmates aren't clairvoyant. I'm just saying it isn't this huge flip to where people at the very tip-top after MS-2 are social dunces who couldn't get thru rounds and clinical presentations to save their life. Like everything in life, the truth is always somewhere in between 2 extremes. Why you listen to your classmates about you is beyond me.
 
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Your classmates aren't clairvoyant. I'm just saying it isn't this huge flip to where people at the very tip-top after MS-2 are social dunces who couldn't get thru rounds and clinical presentations to save their life. Like everything in life, the truth is always somewhere in between 2 extremes. Why you listen to your classmates about you is beyond me.

I mean everyone on SDN. My classmates, or at least my friends among my classmates, have been unconditionally supportive.
 
I mean everyone on SDN. My classmates, or at least my friends among my classmates, have been unconditionally supportive.
No one on SDN has said that you will fail MS-3. You've twisted what people have said (again) 180 degrees and then interpreted it. It seems to be a consistent problem for you of taking meaning of things out of context.
 
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Ark, what people have told you here is that 3rd/4th year requires soft, people skills and that's an area you could work on. No one here actively wants you to fail. Giving advice shows that we want you to succeed
 
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Pretty much content with it straight away. I got a 67 on my first anatomy test. I know I could've worked a little harder to get in the 70s, and a lot harder to get in the 80s, but it didn't seem worth it to me. My school is H/P/F, so if I have to bust my ass and give up every moment of free time to get the H, I'll gladly take the P. Once I'm getting the P, I don't really care if it's a 89.9 or a 65.1. I just rationalize it by saying I could do better if I tried harder. It's easy.

At what point does being nonchalant about your grades translate into less understanding of the material and poorer clinical experiences for your future patients? I can see not stressing over trivial numerical differences, but there is a huge gap between 89.9 and 65.1 percent.
 
At what point does being nonchalant about your grades translate into less understanding of the material and poorer clinical experiences for your future patients? I can see not stressing over trivial numerical differences, but there is a huge gap between 89.9 and 65.1 percent.
I agree there's a huge gap of knowledge between an 89.9 and 65.1, assuming the professor actually teaches. Not everyone can have Linda Costanzo as their professor.
 
In my experience, the top students preclinically are also top students clinically, though there are some exceptions.

Yup.

There is an SDN fable that when M3 year hits, the gunners will magically get their comeuppance and the bell curve will flip from the pre-clinical to clinical years.

This is not what commonly happens. Turns out the top students are top students because they are intelligent, organized, motivated, and hard-working. These attributes do in fact carry over quite well from the pre-clinical to clinical years, they just have to be adapted to a new environment. The top students usually do this just fine.

There are definitely exceptions. Some of the (previously) top students aren't as adaptable, or lack the emotional intelligence to fit into the team dynamic so they struggle. But these are by far the exception and not the rule.

And for the previously middle of the road student, they most commonly stay middle of the road (or below average) because it turns out things like knowledge base and study habits do carry over to the clinical realm.

The "just wait til M3 hits" idea is an ego defense for the average to below average student who can't accept that they are being out-achieved by their peers.
 
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The "just wait til M3 hits" idea is an ego defense for the average to below average student who can't accept that they are being out-achieved by their peers.
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The "just wait til M3 hits" idea is an ego defense for the average to below average student who can't accept that they are being out-achieved by their peers.

I don't think that's the entire story. What was it that Aragorn said in LOTR, "Dawn is ever the hope of men." Med school sucks a giant wang, and many times that's reflected in poor grades, or grades poorer than we hoped. A lot of students hope that things will get better after STEP1, and that will be reflected in better grades relative to the distribution.

I guess I've learned better, though. Things never get better in life. It's just a never-ending series of disappointments until we shuffle off the mortal coil.


I agree there's a huge gap of knowledge between an 89.9 and 65.1, assuming the professor actually teaches. Not everyone can have Linda Costanzo as their professor.

This is a purely academic consideration, though. At my school the difference between AOA and "below average" is usually about 4 points on an exam.
 
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What does student government have to do with grades?

lol bc because your schools conduct council rep is going to totally build you up in the eyes of a PD, oh wait....
 
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I don't think that's the entire story. What was it that Aragorn said in LOTR, "Dawn is ever the hope of men." Med school sucks a giant wang, and many times that's reflected in poor grades, or grades poorer than we hoped. A lot of students hope that things will get better after STEP1, and that will be reflected in better grades relative to the distribution.

I guess I've learned better, though. Things never get better in life. It's just a never-ending series of disappointments until we shuffle off the mortal coil.




This is a purely academic consideration, though. At my school the difference between AOA and "below average" is usually about 4 points on an exam.

not true:rage:
 
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I don't think that's the entire story. What was it that Aragorn said in LOTR, "Dawn is ever the hope of men." Med school sucks a giant wang, and many times that's reflected in poor grades, or grades poorer than we hoped. A lot of students hope that things will get better after STEP1, and that will be reflected in better grades relative to the distribution.

I guess I've learned better, though. Things never get better in life. It's just a never-ending series of disappointments until we shuffle off the mortal coil.




This is a purely academic consideration, though. At my school the difference between AOA and "below average" is usually about 4 points on an exam.


I know we've talked about this before, but your school is *****ic for the bolded.
 
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I guess I've learned better, though. Things never get better in life. It's just a never-ending series of disappointments until we shuffle off the mortal coil.

That's the spirit!!!

This is a purely academic consideration, though. At my school the difference between AOA and "below average" is usually about 4 points on an exam.
You mean between 1st quartile and 3rd quartile? Your school truly sucks in its grading scheme.
 
At what point does being nonchalant about your grades translate into less understanding of the material and poorer clinical experiences for your future patients? I can see not stressing over trivial numerical differences, but there is a huge gap between 89.9 and 65.1 percent.
Yea that used to bother me. Don't get me wrong, some classes I'm still getting in the high 80s, especially when the lecturers are good and/or I am interested in the material. I pulled my anatomy average up to low 70s and that was my lowest grade of M1. But I can't constantly stress about not knowing enough. Bottom line is this is a job, I am my number one priority, and everyone else can f*ck off if they don't like it.
 
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Yea that used to bother me. Don't get me wrong, some classes I'm still getting in the high 80s, especially when the lecturers are good and/or I am interested in the material. I pulled my anatomy average up to low 70s and that was my lowest grade of M1. But I can't constantly stress about not knowing enough. Bottom line is this is a job, I am my number one priority, and everyone else can f*ck off if they don't like it.
Is it H/P/F at your school?
 
@TheShaker Part of me feels that being content with just passing is not a healthy mind state to have, if I had that mind state in undergrad, I would have never made it to med school. The thing is, in undergrad I knew if I worked harder than everybody, I'd be at the top of the class. But in med school, the place is full of intellectual heavyweights that don't seem to need sleep, the biological limits are too much to overcome.
It could be argued that being distressed at not being the best is a far less healthy mindset to have, as you're competing, as you said, with intellectual heavyweights and thus you might never be able to be at the top and will end up in a cycle of perpetual self-loathing.
 
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Ye, I mean, I'm a dunce and everyone says I'm going to fk up MS-3 as well.

I don't think you are a dunce. Most likely your time management skills are lacking. I did a statistical analysis of your SDN posting habits and noticed that during the week you average around 3 hours on SDN, and on the weekend around 6 - 8 hours. Recuperating some of that time would probably increase your academic performance :D
 
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Soda???? No. Gross.

Coffee through a straw----> no staining of teef. Duh.
I was wondering how you did it. Nearly all dentists say not to drink coffee bc of teeth staining.
 
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