Best child psych programs

[RedPeony]

I am having trouble finding a list of the most well-regarded child psych programs (where one would get excellent training). Curious what you think are the top programs (without geographical preference). Also, how much does it matter if one trains at a program more known for adult psych and then does a child psych fellowship after? Would those students feel behind or that it is harder to match into child fellowship? I think most places only have about 2-3 months exposure to child in the first 3 years regardless, right? Thanks so much for any insights!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I don't know of any rankings for child programs, but the rep of the adult program probably doesn't matter too much. Just get exposure to child during training (as much as you can) and do some child-related research during that time. Have a good reason why you want to do the fellowship, because honestly it's a pretty demanding fellowship and similar to going back to PGY1 or PGY2 year. It's very exhausting and taxing, and if you're not in it for the right reasons, you'll burn out very quickly. Even then, you may still burn out quickly.

Good luck.

 

[CAPsychiatry]

While it may be true that some of the less competitive residents match into big names, but generally the strong child programs are successful in recruiting the best applicants. I agree that some of the best general training programs are not the best places for child fellowships such as the programs splik shared above. In my opinion, Stanford, NYU, Yale, Brown, and MGH are very strong programs and produce very well-trained child psychiatrists.

 

[SmallBird]

remember that fellowships in psychiatry are not terribly competitive. some of the worst residents match into "top" child fellowships every year.

This is very true - somehow child fellowships seem particularly uncompetitive, which is good news for applicants.

 

[SmallBird]

While it may be true that some of the less competitive residents match into big names, but generally the strong child programs are successful in recruiting the best applicants. I agree that some of the best general training programs are not the best places for child fellowships such as the programs splik shared above. In my opinion, Stanford, NYU, Yale, Brown, and MGH are very strong programs and produce very well-trained child psychiatrists.

I agree with that list although I know very little about Stanford's program.

- I really liked the MGH program but didn't like the amount of commuting, and had local ties to my program. I applaud their chairs attitude about the importance of psychiatry remaining its own discipline (somewhat against the grain with the current energy around integrated care). I think it testifies to the hard work the department has done to be recognized as a sub-specialty within the general hospital, and I appreciate that they don't want to dissolve their role into managing any patient that a pediatrician might consider difficult. I'm hardly an expert on these issues but I liked the way he described this.

- Brown really seems to be a great program and applicants seem to be very excited about it, although I have heard their workload is tough, and their stipends are a good 10k less than at Yale. But they seem to have a ton of innovative clinical programs including eating disorders and specialized treatment for OCD (people go to Brown for OCD treatment the way they come to the Yale CSC for autism assessment). I think Providence is an awesome city actually.

- I am happy at Yale although the program is somewhat less autonomous than I would like, and the 1/2 day per week that we do in the outpatient clinic turns out to be quite stressful as patients have things going on all the time that they might call you about. My inpatient exposure has been amazing, and I am enjoying a month for research now. Call can be busy, but is compensated which makes a big difference. I literally thought the adult program was the best experience of my life, and I would defend my opinion that it is the best residency program to achieve a variety of career goals (not all of course, but particularly independent neuroscience careers, and ironically, private practice dynamic therapy). I do not feel as passionate about the fellowship, which I think is giving me good training but I can easily imagine that aspects may be better elsewhere. Certainly the great salary and benefits makes me happy I stayed.

- I know people who have gone to NYU and it does seem to be a very popular program currently, with people reporting great experiences and applicants having a very favorable impression. I have heard there workload is pretty tough but that just makes it seem like they are on par with every other program in this regard.

Happy to share my impressions further. Total honesty assured.

 

[Madden007]

I agree with that list although I know very little about Stanford's program.

- I really liked the MGH program but didn't like the amount of commuting, and had local ties to my program. I applaud their chairs attitude about the importance of psychiatry remaining its own discipline (somewhat against the grain with the current energy around integrated care). I think it testifies to the hard work the department has done to be recognized as a sub-specialty within the general hospital, and I appreciate that they don't want to dissolve their role into managing any patient that a pediatrician might consider difficult. I'm hardly an expert on these issues but I liked the way he described this.

- Brown really seems to be a great program and applicants seem to be very excited about it, although I have heard their workload is tough, and their stipends are a good 10k less than at Yale. But they seem to have a ton of innovative clinical programs including eating disorders and specialized treatment for OCD (people go to Brown for OCD treatment the way they come to the Yale CSC for autism assessment). I think Providence is an awesome city actually.

- I am happy at Yale although the program is somewhat less autonomous than I would like, and the 1/2 day per week that we do in the outpatient clinic turns out to be quite stressful as patients have things going on all the time that they might call you about. My inpatient exposure has been amazing, and I am enjoying a month for research now. Call can be busy, but is compensated which makes a big difference. I literally thought the adult program was the best experience of my life, and I would defend my opinion that it is the best residency program to achieve a variety of career goals (not all of course, but particularly independent neuroscience careers, and ironically, private practice dynamic therapy). I do not feel as passionate about the fellowship, which I think is giving me good training but I can easily imagine that aspects may be better elsewhere. Certainly the great salary and benefits makes me happy I stayed.

- I know people who have gone to NYU and it does seem to be a very popular program currently, with people reporting great experiences and applicants having a very favorable impression. I have heard there workload is pretty tough but that just makes it seem like they are on par with every other program in this regard.

Happy to share my impressions further. Total honesty assured.

Thank you for sharing. In your opinion, how competitive is the Yale program to get into?
Also, please comment on fast tracking into Yale's program. I ask because the truth/rumor is that more competitive programs, e.g. NYU, only accepts 5th year residents where as other child's program would gladly accept a fast tracked 4th year. Please elaborate. Thank you for your input.

 

[SmallBird]

Thank you for sharing. In your opinion, how competitive is the Yale program to get into?
Also, please comment on fast tracking into Yale's program. I ask because the truth/rumor is that more competitive programs, e.g. NYU, only accepts 5th year residents where as other child's program would gladly accept a fast tracked 4th year. Please elaborate. Thank you for your input.

I do not believe that to be true. I know multiple residents that fast-tracked into NYU, MGH, Columbia/Cornell and I fast-tracked into Yale. I don't think any of the child fellowships are very competitive. Top programs typically include fellows that have done research, have publications, other types of experience, but also a good number of people that are just really motivated to work with children, and have had good clinical performance. And so I don't think we end up with "the worst residents" but certainly are not competitive the way some adult programs are.

 

[DD214_DOC]

This is very true - somehow child fellowships seem particularly uncompetitive, which is good news for applicants.

Yep, there are reasons for this.

The demand for us is extremely high. It's actually kinda fun being literally the ONLY ONE AROUND. But, the work itself can be very exhausting, frustrating, and draining. I cannot recall any details, but I remember reading about child psych having a really high burn out rate and most of us end up not practicing it after a few years beyond training. On the plus, you have no choice but to get real good at dynamic and family system stuff and being comfortable with confronting parents issues and contribution to stuff. You also get real good real quick at setting limits and managing boundaries.

 

[chicagochildpsych]

I'm feeling the burnout now, the lack of docs makes for 16 hour days

 

[DD214_DOC]

I'm feeling the burnout now, the lack of docs makes for 16 hour days

Oh man, mine aren't that bad ... yet. I hope you are appropriately compensated. Some days, though, these parents just annoy the **** out of me

 

[Blitz2006]

I do not believe that to be true. I know multiple residents that fast-tracked into NYU, MGH, Columbia/Cornell and I fast-tracked into Yale. I don't think any of the child fellowships are very competitive. Top programs typically include fellows that have done research, have publications, other types of experience, but also a good number of people that are just really motivated to work with children, and have had good clinical performance. And so I don't think we end up with "the worst residents" but certainly are not competitive the way some adult programs are.

Thanks for post. But if I'm not mistaken, isn't child psych relatively the most competitive among psych fellowships? They filled 85% of programs last year, compared to 67% in CL...anyone know the fill rates for Forensics/Addictions?

 

[DuskPhilosophy]

which means you're ineligible for board certification

I thought it was possible to be board certified in both adult and child even if you do fast track... Has this changed recently?

 

[notdeadyet]

I thought it was possible to be board certified in both adult and child even if you do fast track...

It is. You are adult BE when you finish your first year of fast track fellowship (and many folks take their adult boards right after). You are CAP BE after you finish your second year of fast track fellowship.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DD214_DOC]

It is. You are adult BE when you finish your first year of fast track fellowship (and many folks take their adult boards right after). You are CAP BE after you finish your second year of fast track fellowship.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, just finished and this is how it worked. Didn't bother with child boards yet though.

 

[SmallBird]

I thought it was possible to be board certified in both adult and child even if you do fast track... Has this changed recently?

Split means you can do a forensic/CL/addiction fellowship in your 4th year of residency at some places but this won't make you sub-specialty board eligible.

 

[rkaz]

If you are an average (to slightly below average) resident applicant, what are the chances of getting interviews that in child psych? I've gotten good supportive evals from my psych attendings, though got slaughtered in one of my off service medicine rotation evals in intern year so I'm not feeling too good about that.

 

[WingedOx]

If you are an average (to slightly below average) resident applicant, what are the chances of getting interviews that in child psych? I've gotten good supportive evals from my psych attendings, though got slaughtered in one of my off service medicine rotation evals in intern year so I'm not feeling too good about that.

No one really cares about off-service evals, especially as an intern.

 

[DD214_DOC]

No one really cares about off-service evals, especially as an intern.

Not in general, but it depends on why the eval was negative

 

[WingedOx]

Not in general, but it depends on why the eval was negative

If you're still getting dinged in the 3rd year, people will care. As an intern? Nah, just work on whatever the weakness is. Residency isn't med school where every written slight against you goes on your "permanent record."

I had enough meetings with the PD as a chief last year where we'd discuss how the interns were doing. We all knew not everyone was going to come in with the same skill level so most bad evals were often than not something to watch for over time rather than a sign of serious concern, all depending on context of course.

Ironically, when I applied for fellowship last year I had to submit my entire MSPE from med school, but just a generic letter from my residency PD.

 

[rkaz]

Ironically, when I applied for fellowship last year I had to submit my entire MSPE from med school, but just a generic letter from my residency PD.

Wow, that's really great to know. I presumed applying to fellowship was like residency where the PD would get to peruse through each rotation eval from each attending, senior resident.

My current psych evals thus far this year is that I'm doing a good job. So for the most part I'm doing just fine rotation wise, though I was on the lower end on PRITE which I hope to do better on next year.

 

[digitlnoize]

I just want to throw out UVA as a pretty darn good child psych program. We get EXCELLENT outpatient experience, so if you're interested in private practice, this is a good place to do it. Our inpatient experience is at the only state child psych hospital in Virginia, and you see some serious pathology of all ages, and work there for 6 months. Call is only home call every 7 or so weeks and is minimal (get called maybe 1-2 times per week). One of my classmates hasn't had to go into the hospital AT ALL in 5 months. Punk. Anyways, shameless plug, but it really is a good program. Nice attending, nice town, good people, and I think we're looking at outside applications this year because our adult residents that are doing child want to go to bigger cities. So, if you're looking for a great program in a small town...

 

[Madden007]

I just want to throw out UVA as a pretty darn good child psych program. We get EXCELLENT outpatient experience, so if you're interested in private practice, this is a good place to do it. Our inpatient experience is at the only state child psych hospital in Virginia, and you see some serious pathology of all ages, and work there for 6 months. Call is only home call every 7 or so weeks and is minimal (get called maybe 1-2 times per week). One of my classmates hasn't had to go into the hospital AT ALL in 5 months. Punk. Anyways, shameless plug, but it really is a good program. Nice attending, nice town, good people, and I think we're looking at outside applications this year because our adult residents that are doing child want to go to bigger cities. So, if you're looking for a great program in a small town...

Hows the salary and moonlight opportunities like out there?

 

[TexasPhysician]

I was impressed with the UTMB program. You work with the chair of the department who is probably the world's foremost expert in childhood mood disorders. You also have plenty of time to moonlight.