best way to analyze competitiveness of residency types

[USFjoe]

I hear a lot of talk about 'it's not difficult to match into this type of residency' or 'it's extremely difficult to match into that type'.

What is the best way to gauge the competitiveness of the different residency types? Does anyone know of any good data on the topic? thanks =)

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[Areion]

http://www.nrmp.org/data/matchoutcomes2006.pdf

 

[USFjoe]

Thanks that is helpful, but I don't understand something. I always hear that plastic surgery and dermatology were two of the most competitive specialties. I noticed however, that out of 14,719 applicants in 2005, that only 366 people put derm as their 1st match choice and only 148 for plastics. This doesn't make sense to me since some less competitive specialties have a much higher # of applicants (eg 1138 apps. with Emergency Medicine as their 1st choice or 1110 with Family Med. as their 1st choice). I would think that many more would be applying to the competitive ones. Also I was looking at the 08 data http://www.im.org/AAIM/PublicPolicy/Docs/Match/AdvanceDataTables_2008.pdf and it says that for optho there were only 3 residency positions available but only 2 people applied; 2 people OUT OF ALL THE MED SCHOOLS?? This doesn't make sense; am I interpreting the data wrong somehow?

 

[agranulocytosis]

I think the only numbers that get listed are the ones that were granted an interview and subsequently ranked that speciality. If you don't get interviewed at any Derm programs, you can't rank any Derm programs because not getting an interview means you failed to pass the 2nd hurdle. I believe that there are 3 main regulatory points to matching:

1) Self-selection
2) Interview
3) Match

Some one please correct me if I'm wrong on this!

 

[Law2Doc]

I think the only numbers that get listed are the ones that were granted an interview and subsequently ranked that speciality. If you don't get interviewed at any Derm programs, you can't rank any Derm programs because not getting an interview means you failed to pass the 2nd hurdle. I believe that there are 3 main regulatory points to matching:

1) Self-selection
2) Interview
3) Match

Some one please correct me if I'm wrong on this!

Agreed. You can't use statistics to determine competitiveness because in some specialties a lot of people self select out of the pool. So if 90% of students self select out of even applying to, say, derm, the fact that a modest percentage of those left in the pool don't match doesn't really tell you much. The best ways to guage this probably are word of mouth and number of unfilled slots.

 

[45408]

Thanks that is helpful, but I don't understand something. I always hear that plastic surgery and dermatology were two of the most competitive specialties. I noticed however, that out of 14,719 applicants in 2005, that only 366 people put derm as their 1st match choice and only 148 for plastics. This doesn't make sense to me since some less competitive specialties have a much higher # of applicants (eg 1138 apps. with Emergency Medicine as their 1st choice or 1110 with Family Med. as their 1st choice). I would think that many more would be applying to the competitive ones.

Most people are educated enough that they don't apply to the residencies that they don't have a chance at getting, because they would be wasting a lot of time and money, and they're likely to end up without a residency. Did you sign yourself up for the NBA draft? Why not?

 

[DickyV]

Also I was looking at the 08 data http://www.im.org/AAIM/PublicPolicy/Docs/Match/AdvanceDataTables_2008.pdf and it says that for optho there were only 3 residency positions available but only 2 people applied; 2 people OUT OF ALL THE MED SCHOOLS?? This doesn't make sense; am I interpreting the data wrong somehow?

Opthalmology is still pretty competitive, but most programs do not go through the NRMP Match - they are part of the San Fransisco Match (http://www.sfmatch.org/).

This website has information about competitiveness of various residency programs:
http://residency.wustl.edu/medadmin...62353a93c5c35cb186256f850071bd86?OpenDocument

 

[DickyV]

If you don't get interviewed at any Derm programs, you can't rank any Derm programs because not getting an interview means you failed to pass the 2nd hurdle.

Well, theoretically, you could rank programs where you didn't get an interview (hell - you could rank programs to which you hadn't even applied), but your chances of matching there are slim-to-none (unless the PD makes a typo that works in your favor).

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

And it's still competitive compared if you compare the number who applied (or in this case, got an interview) to how many positions there are. Even if only 300 people want it, there aren't enough slots for them all, compared to the thousand plus who want medicine or family medicine and there are more slots than they can fill.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

 

[SomeDoc]

I'm intrigued as to why orthopedic surgery is as competitive as it is. Why is this? Compensation can't be the only factor- that would make for some unhappy docs (two orthopods I know fall into this category).

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm intrigued as to why orthopedic surgery is as competitive as it is. Why is this? Compensation can't be the only factor- that would make for some unhappy docs (two orthopods I know fall into this category).

I think people like it because it is (1) personality driven -- you get to hang out with the same kind of ex-jock crowd you hung with in high school, (2) a link to sports -- folks who couldn't grow up and play in the NFL/MLB/NBA/NHL can still feel "linked" to the field by taking care of athletic-related injuries, and/or (3) you get to work with your hands -- it's very much being a carpenter -- you get to hammer and saw and bang on things, moreso than any other kind of surgery.

 

[yeasterbunny]

This isn't exactly what the OP asked, but there is of course a loose correlation between the competetiveness of a field and lifestyle/money. There was a really good thread about this a while back.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=445396

 

[yeasterbunny]

http://www.nrmp.org/data/matchoutcomes2006.pdf

Oh, and as you probably know, there is a more recent version of this.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf

Hopefully they will do this every year so all applicants can overanalyze it and get really stressed out like I did.

 

[USFjoe]

Most people are educated enough that they don't apply to the residencies that they don't have a chance at getting, because they would be wasting a lot of time and money, and they're likely to end up without a residency. Did you sign yourself up for the NBA draft? Why not?

That's a good point...I hadn't thought of it like that...lol

How much does it usually cost to apply to a residency btw??

And to answer your question...why didn't I sign up for the NBA?? no reason except for the fact that I am short, white, and possess the strength and agility of a toddler. =)

 

[AZhopeful]

How much does it usually cost to apply to a residency btw??

The important 'cost' here is not how many dollars it takes to send in your application; rather, the real cost is in time. Whereas applying to a med school that is out of your league is just a matter of another $80 or whatever and a few hours filling out a secondary(maybe), applying only to residencies that are out of your league isn't so much about an immediate dollar amount, but about the potential of matching poorly or even scrambling into a residency you had no desire to be in. At that point, you either stick out the rest of your career, or you reapply the next year to other residencies. If you do this you can run the risk of having to do extra years of residency, which means a delayed start to your attending paychecks--> potential opportunity cost in the hundreds of thousands, depending on the specialty.

 

[ropeadope1983]

I think people like it because it is (1) personality driven -- you get to hang out with the same kind of ex-jock crowd you hung with in high school, (2) a link to sports -- folks who couldn't grow up and play in the NFL/MLB/NBA/NHL can still feel "linked" to the field by taking care of athletic-related injuries, and/or (3) you get to work with your hands -- it's very much being a carpenter -- you get to hammer and saw and bang on things, moreso than any other kind of surgery.

....which also explains why orthopods have the reputation of being the most arrogant and are teased for being drawn to a line of work in medicine that is the least cognitively challenging out of all the medical specialties...making the athlete/carpenter analogy even more relevant...

 

[Law2Doc]

....which also explains why orthopods have the reputation of being the most arrogant and are teased for being drawn to a line of work in medicine that is the least cognitively challenging out of all the medical specialties...making the athlete/carpenter analogy even more relevant...

What others think isn't really that important in deciding a career, what matters is just what you think. You have to do what you find enjoyable. If you have a blast each day hammering on a femur, I say go for it.

 

[ropeadope1983]

What others think isn't really that important in deciding a career, what matters is just what you think. You have to do what you find enjoyable. If you have a blast each day hammering on a femur, I say go for it.

Hahaha, true, true...A good friend of mine who's Italian would certainly agree with that statement, I'm sure.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

btw the tiny number of ophtho spots is due to the fact that you were looking at the list of PGY-1 ophtho positions. I didn't know there were any such programs in the country; evidently there are one or two. If you look at the PGY-2 positions, you'll see the normal numbers. Ophthalmology is one of those fields that requires a year of internship in either surgery, medicine, or a "transitional year" before you can start doing eyes.

And there is an enormous amount of self-selection. First off, your home department has to support your application. If you've barely squeaked through medical school, you can't expect your home department to put you out there in the match. They don't want you to reflect poorly on them, and of course they're worried that you might not match. Every burgeoning new MS4 has a conversation with the clerkship director/ program director / whomever is so designated so that they can run through your application and give you a candid assessment of your 'matchability.'

So even though 300-odd people actually put themselves through the derm match and ranked programs and submitted a list, there were probably 3-4 times that many who were interested in the field but knew they didn't have a shot.

But seriously, don't stress about this. You honestly can't know what specialty is right for you until you go through third year. Shadowing, scrubbing in on cases, what have you is no kind of proxy for getting in, doing the daily work, and seeing how it strikes you.