Boston University MA in Medical Science

[jintonic5]

Sorry!

Not sure

no prob
does anyone know the acceptance rate for hte bu mams program?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[chitown82]

Just my opinion....but the BU program sucks if you want to complete it in one year. The administration is incompetent and unwilling to help those in their first-year, the students suck, and the facilities are horrible. The classes are decent, but nothing special. Don't get me wrong...I'm doing the program in one year and I've gotten into several medical schools, but all without the help of BU. This lady named Susan Wilcox is the most horrible and unhelpful person on the face of the earth. Avoid her unless you need to speak to her for some reason. You have to be nice to her, however, because she writes your Dean's Letter. Sorry just a rant...Seriously look at the other masters programs out there...and if you want to do everything in one year, DO NOT come to this school. PM me with any questions.

 

[cammy1313]

Just my opinion....but the BU program sucks if you want to complete it in one year. The administration is incompetent and unwilling to help those in their first-year, the students suck, and the facilities are horrible. The classes are decent, but nothing special. Don't get me wrong...I'm doing the program in one year and I've gotten into several medical schools, but all without the help of BU. This lady named Susan Wilcox is the most horrible and unhelpful person on the face of the earth. Avoid her unless you need to speak to her for some reason. You have to be nice to her, however, because she writes your Dean's Letter. Sorry just a rant...Seriously look at the other masters programs out there...and if you want to do everything in one year, DO NOT come to this school. PM me with any questions.

I completely disagree with this negative assessment of the program but to each his own. I agree that Susan Wilcox wasn't my favorite person but I only spoke to her once in my entire time in the program. She does write your dean's letter but only after reading an insanely long biography of the applicant and following a one-on-one meeting. As far as completing in one year, the best program for that is pro'ly Rosalind Franklin's. It is one year, no thesis, and they guarantee you an interview for the subsequent app cycle. BUT, as far as quality of med programs BU is superior, no question. I personally chose a special masters program based on the med school in which it was offered. I was debating betwee RF and BU and eventually went to BU for that reason. I am so thankful that I did.

To answer a previous poster's Q about admittance to the BU GMS program, I think your best bet on finding this out is by calling up the admin office. It was my impression that they were not THAT strict on whom them accepted, so long as you demonstrated a true desire to be there you were in.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

Interesting...this is one of the few times I've heard anything bad about the program (other than the price tag ). I've heard complaints about BU's (and G-town's) facilities in the first two years , but the clinicals at BU (and G-town) have strong reps. chitown82, I know you said to PM, but I think others will be interested...Why do you specifically not recommend doing it in one year? Is it mainly because of the thesis requirement?

Just a clarification though-- Cammy I think you meant to say that Rosalind Franklin's program is non-thesis. Successful completion of the program awards the MS in Applied Physiology degree. Initially, I planned on applying to RFU, but the fact that it starts in July doesn't exactly jibe with my schedule. Because RFU is on probation by the AAMC, I think it's making a stronger effort with its clinical training. And contrary to popular belief, RFU has some excellent clinical affiliations. Of course, the Boston hospitals provide solid clinical training and BU has more desireable residency programs of its own.

 

[cammy1313]

Just a clarification though-- Cammy I think you meant to say that Rosalind Franklin's program is non-thesis.

Noted and corrected. Thanks for catching that!

 

[sepaul]

Just my opinion....but the BU program sucks if you want to complete it in one year. The administration is incompetent and unwilling to help those in their first-year, the students suck, and the facilities are horrible. The classes are decent, but nothing special. Don't get me wrong...I'm doing the program in one year and I've gotten into several medical schools, but all without the help of BU. This lady named Susan Wilcox is the most horrible and unhelpful person on the face of the earth. Avoid her unless you need to speak to her for some reason. You have to be nice to her, however, because she writes your Dean's Letter. Sorry just a rant...Seriously look at the other masters programs out there...and if you want to do everything in one year, DO NOT come to this school. PM me with any questions.

chitown82, this page would not really function very well if people did not give BALANCED opinions towards the programs. For those of us trying to narrow it down between programs, it is difficulte to make a decision after reading some very negative remarks punctuated with very positive remarks.

I am not trying to bash your post, however, it would be nice if you could comment on why you choose this program and how the program disillusioned you once you started it. Also, if you went through the selection process of MA programs, what would you change in your analysis of the program and how it fits your goals? If you could, note what kind of research (phone calls, e-mails, etc.) worked and did not work to make an informed decision on the programs.

It does seem that cammy and others are very happy with the program. It would be interesting if those of you with a positive opinion overall (ie. cammy and camp) andthose with a negative opinion (chitown82 and camp) played devil's advocate and analyzed the reverse of their overall opinion on the BU MA program.

Keep the posts coming, this is helping me tremendously.
Thanks for posting...
-sepaul

 

[mshheaddoc]

I have two questions:
1. Can the credits you earn in the MA program be used in the MD program at BU or must you retake those classes?

2. Do you have to pay for two yearsw of tuition or one? If one, do you have to pay for summer tuition as well?

Thanks yall,
se

I finally found the financial information after searching ..


http://cobalt.bumc.bu.edu/current/Catalog/fin.htm

 

[cammy1313]

It would be interesting if those of you with a positive opinion overall (ie. cammy and camp) andthose with a negative opinion (chitown82 and camp) played devil's advocate and analyzed the reverse of their overall opinion on the BU MA program.

Good call, sepaul. I'll make list of dislikes (in no particular order) for ease of viewing:

1) Location - The school is not located near a T-stop (subway) which makes it somewhat annoying to get around to other parts of the city if you live near campus, or annoying to get to campus if you're taking the subway. There are buses that run by but given the downtown traffic they take much longer than you'd like them too.

2) Facilities - It is damn near impossible to find a place to study on campus other than the library (which happens to very small). They are very limited in private, group study rooms. These are open 24 hours but you'd have to arrive at dawn to secure a room for the day. This isn't always the case but does hold true around exam days.

3) Cost - For what you pay in tuition they still manage to find things that you must pay for out of pocket, namely photo copying and printing (you are allowed X amount free per semester but most people either run over or lose there card) and microscope fees if you're in histology.

That about does it really, and none of those things are truly horrible obstacles to overcome. For instance, the location issue isn't really a huge deal. You can share cabs and the nearest T-stop isnt too far of a walk but the neighborhood is sketchy enough to where you wouldn't want to do it alone at night. The lack of study areas was probably my biggest complaint but it's not as though you couldn't find SOMETHING. I ended up studying in the histology labs most of first semester, and second semester discovered the public library (about a mile away from campus) which is very very nice. And the paying for printing issue could have been remedied if I had just bought a printer but I was stubborn and didn't want to invest. It's really a non-issue, doesn't add up to that much in the long run.

OK, hope this long rant helps!

 

[chitown82]

chitown82, this page would not really function very well if people did not give BALANCED opinions towards the programs. For those of us trying to narrow it down between programs, it is difficulte to make a decision after reading some very negative remarks punctuated with very positive remarks.

I am not trying to bash your post, however, it would be nice if you could comment on why you choose this program and how the program disillusioned you once you started it. Also, if you went through the selection process of MA programs, what would you change in your analysis of the program and how it fits your goals? If you could, note what kind of research (phone calls, e-mails, etc.) worked and did not work to make an informed decision on the programs.

It does seem that cammy and others are very happy with the program. It would be interesting if those of you with a positive opinion overall (ie. cammy and camp) andthose with a negative opinion (chitown82 and camp) played devil's advocate and analyzed the reverse of their overall opinion on the BU MA program.

Keep the posts coming, this is helping me tremendously.
Thanks for posting...
-sepaul

A few things...
Before deciding on this program, I specifically went to visit Dr. Franzblau (the Dean of the program) regarding the suitability of the program for those who wanted to complete it in one year. He advised me that although about a quarter of the incoming students apply their first year, they would certainly do their best to help us applying to medical school. I also asked about having a letter of recommendation being sent out in the middle of first term because many medical schools require a graduate letter. He said it was no problem and it would be taken care of. Then summer rolled around and I e-mailed the admissions office about filling out a biographical sketch to help prepare my file so a letter could be written mid-term. They asked me to get in contact with a woman named Susan Wilcox. I e-mailed her three times about this, and I received no response. I eventually called her and she basically yelled at me for even asking for such an option. She told me the earilest a letter could go out was February. That pretty much put me on hold at a handful of medical schools because of the lack of graduate letter. (They did, however, send out a letter telling medical schools what classes I'm taking). Luckily, I hit it off with a professor and got a letter in around November. I got into medical schools without much help from BU. I also have several friends who were put in tears by Susan Wilcox for asking her to help them out with applying. Dr. Franzblau yelled at one of my friend's saying those who apply their first year are on their own. Luckily, my intention for the program was to more or less prepare for medical school. My grades/MCATs etc were great so I got plenty of interview invites first semester. Most of the people I know who have gotten in their first year would have gotten in (most likely) straight from college. Those who needed some help with grades weren't given much support after doing quite well their first semester. (I'm tired so sorry if that doesn't make sense).

On to other stuff...the classes are decent. They are not great but certainly far from horrible. I expected them to be much harder..when in fact I hardly did work this past term and still managed three As and one A-. (I took histo, biochem, stats, and an ethics class). As a result, I'm not sure I learned much that will help me out in med school. Some of the professors are good (histology) but others are horrible (stats). The idea of paying for four semester's of tuition if you want to complete the program in one year is stupid. I'll be done in early June, but I'll have to pay two summer sessions fees even though I won't even be in Boston. The location of the school sucks - the South End of Boston is gloomy and depressing. (Although, Boston is an awesome city). The facilities are average at best. I'm doing my thesis in a laboratory, and my advisor candidly told me that starting this year, they plan to let many more students in the program. (There was an increase in enrollment by about 50% this year). She said many of the admitted students simply won't make it to medical school (very poor GPAs, MCATs, etc) and that BU simply wants their cash. This in turn will spoil the reputation of the program (which currently is decent, not as good at Georgetown's program) and medical schools won't be as impressed by good grades in the program. If you're looking for a support system and if you want to complete a masters in one year, go to Georgetown. If you want to spend an extra year, consider BU. Again, you have to choose a program that fits your goals. I kind of wanted to take a year off before medical school but still do something productive, finish up some research from my undergrad school (in Cambridge), and enjoy the city of Boston. I don't feel like I learned too much at BU, and I didn't get much help from BU when I was doing applications (advice, Dean's letter, etc). One of the positives of the program (for me) is my research. I have an extensive research background and I started working in a lab this semester for my thesis. The lab is awesome and I'm already on my way to getting a publication (will most likely have two by the time I leave). Aight, I got to head out...PM me with any questions.

 

[jintonic5]

Those who needed some help with grades weren't given much support after doing quite well their first semester. (I'm tired so sorry if that doesn't make sense)...

I'm doing my thesis in a laboratory, and my advisor candidly told me that starting this year, they plan to let many more students in the program. (There was an increase in enrollment by about 50% this year). She said many of the admitted students simply won't make it to medical school (very poor GPAs, MCATs, etc) and that BU simply wants their cash. This in turn will spoil the reputation of the program (which currently is decent, not as good at Georgetown's program) and medical schools won't be as impressed by good grades in the program.

chitown, thanks for the candid look at BU- it definitely piqued my interest/concern.

i selectively quoted parts of chitown's post- could someone from the bu program comment? i'm really interested to hear about these particular points.

also this wilcox lady sounds scary

 

[chitown82]

chitown, thanks for the candid look at BU- it definitely piqued my interest/concern.

i selectively quoted parts of chitown's post- could someone from the bu program comment? i'm really interested to hear about these particular points.

also this wilcox lady sounds scary

What my advisor said is probably just her take on things. She's is really discouraged this year at the unusally high number of students that are struggling. She noted that she think these students probably won't make it to medical school even with the program. Unfortunately, some of them might go through the program, pay a lot of money to BU, and still never make it into a US medical school.

 

[stinkycheese]

chitown, thanks for the candid look at BU- it definitely piqued my interest/concern.

i selectively quoted parts of chitown's post- could someone from the bu program comment? i'm really interested to hear about these particular points.

also this wilcox lady sounds scary

I have to back up my classmate, chitown, on most of the points made. While my overall experience in the program has been more positive, I also feel like the point about many students being seemingly unqualified to be in the program and being misled about their chances to get into school is very accurate. I see many people struggling, not getting guidance on how to pick the right path for them. I disagree with a lot of the advice that program administrators deal out, and worry about my friends who are entrusting their application process to the advice of these people.

On the other hand I also see a lot of good in the program - I think the professors are fantastic, even if the classes are not accurate representations of how difficult med school will really be. (The classes are total cake. Easy to get close to a 4.0 with just a little effort and brains). Other administrators besides Wilcox are pretty good. I personally love Franzblau, although it sounds like there are mixed opinions about that here. I am annoyed with how the GMS students are treated within the larger medical school community: we're definitely second-class citizens. (I could elaborate on this, but its an issue that involves some deeply personal information about stuff going on at BU currently that won't affect future students and isn't appropriate to air here... complicated, but just trust me on this.)

If I had it to do over, I probably wouldn't do a special masters' since it turns out I didn't need one, but I am glad I chose BU because I wanted to be in Boston. For the one-year plan people in the future, though, DEFINITELY GO TO GEORGETOWN. BU IS NOT FOR YOU unless you are absolutely a solid candidate going into the program and just need an extra boost, or are sure you want to apply after the year.

 

[jintonic5]

hmmm... i'm getting the impression that many of hte concerns about the efficacy of the program are mainly for people who are considering the program as a ONE year option. if you plan to take the traditional TWO year route, and perform well in the program, do these concerns about advising and efficacy of the program diminish?

(it's a tad early in the morning for me, sorry if that doesn't make sense )

 

[chitown82]

I have to back up my classmate, chitown, on most of the points made. While my overall experience in the program has been more positive, I also feel like the point about many students being seemingly unqualified to be in the program and being misled about their chances to get into school is very accurate. I see many people struggling, not getting guidance on how to pick the right path for them. I disagree with a lot of the advice that program administrators deal out, and worry about my friends who are entrusting their application process to the advice of these people.

On the other hand I also see a lot of good in the program - I think the professors are fantastic, even if the classes are not accurate representations of how difficult med school will really be. (The classes are total cake. Easy to get close to a 4.0 with just a little effort and brains). Other administrators besides Wilcox are pretty good. I personally love Franzblau, although it sounds like there are mixed opinions about that here. I am annoyed with how the GMS students are treated within the larger medical school community: we're definitely second-class citizens. (I could elaborate on this, but its an issue that involves some deeply personal information about stuff going on at BU currently that won't affect future students and isn't appropriate to air here... complicated, but just trust me on this.)

If I had it to do over, I probably wouldn't do a special masters' since it turns out I didn't need one, but I am glad I chose BU because I wanted to be in Boston. For the one-year plan people in the future, though, DEFINITELY GO TO GEORGETOWN. BU IS NOT FOR YOU unless you are absolutely a solid candidate going into the program and just need an extra boost, or are sure you want to apply after the year.

very nicely summarized...
about franzblau and wilcox, i think i just needed to rant about them. im sure others have had positive experiences with them.

 

[lightnk102]

I'm a little confused about the individuals who say that the classes are cake.

The purpose of the BU program is so that you take first-year med school classes along-side the first year med school students. This means that you're in the same lecture halls, sitting beside the current first-years, and you take the same exams (except you're graded, and they're pass/fail).

I don't see how the classes could not be an accurate representation of how med school classes will be, when they ARE the med school classes (with the exception of biostats. but no one cares about that class anyways. easy A). The only difference is that you're taking half the load. Some classes, like Anatomy, are off-limits for GMS students. Perhaps this is what stinky-cheese meant?

Also, in dr. franzblau's defense - i have a hard time seeing him yelling at anyone. he's old, a little frail, thin, and wears a bowtie!

I think it's also important to keep in mind that the purpose of the program isn't to be a buffer while you apply. You get the most benefit out of the program if you apply AFTER a year of classes (then you have the grades on there). It's not designed to cater to students who are applying at the same time that they enter the program. It sounds like stinkycheese and chitown didn't need BU (they probably would've gotten in this year without going to BU), and that's great! congrats guys! but just because BU was unnecessary for med school admissions for these particular individuals doesn't mean that BU doesn't help other applicants get into medical school.

I did hear that the class size is getting larger, and I agree that the GMS students are treated like second class citizens. Based on my experience, a large part of that has to do with the social interactions with the med students. Since we're graded and they're pass/fail, there are inevitably some GMS students who do better than some med students (largely because we're "hungrier"). This then causes an undercurrent of resentment. There's limited interaction between the med students and the GMS students for that reason.

However, I think the most important thing to keep in mind is - do you want to go to med school? It's a hard road either way. You're working against stigma regardless (whether it's a low GPA, you're a reapplicant, etc.). I had my own gripes about the program (yes the admin staff grates at times), but the bottom line is - it delivered for me. I overcame my 3.1 undergrad GPA, I have 10+ interviews, and so far 1 acceptance and 1 waitlist (still waiting on results from the rest).

Don't forget that most of us are underdogs here. The flight to the top isn't going to be cushy. The road isn't going to be smooth, and there will be a few speedbumps, but it's most important to keep the end goal in mind.

CAVEAT: the program only works for you if you work for it. meaning - you better lay your bum to the grindstone and study. doing well in the program is the only thing that will help you. doing poorly will probably hurt you even more.

 

[lightnk102]

I see many people struggling, not getting guidance on how to pick the right path for them. I disagree with a lot of the advice that program administrators deal out, and worry about my friends who are entrusting their application process to the advice of these people.

I agree with this. Some of the advisors I met were either extraordinarily pessimistic about my chances (telling me ONLY to apply to bottom level schools and crossing out half the list I'd compiled). Of course, as soon as I left his office, I threw all those schools back on the list anyways. Others were extraordinarily optimistic (to the point where I was suspicious). However, I think we're all grown up enough to make our own choices and process the advice that we gave instead of just point-blank believing what people tell us. I took the August MCAT so applied to a wide range of schools before my MCAT scores even came out. I got interviews at schools that my one advisor has crossed off. And I didn't get interviews at some of the schools my other advisor (the supremely positive one) sounded encouraging about.

We're not in high school here. People are old enough to go out and do their own research. The MSAR has statistics inside it. Make informed decisions. Go to advisors for their opinion. But that's what it remains - an opinion. If you expect to be spoon-fed through the application process at BU, then it's probably not the place to be. But good luck finding any place that will spoon feed you. We're not in undergrad anymore. Most of my friends and I ended up making our own choices about where to apply to school and took into consideration the advising we got. But we finalized our own lists.

Much like buying a car - you can get your friend's opinions on it, but you can't just go purely on what everyone else says. But that's just common sense.

 

[stinkycheese]

I'm a little confused about the individuals who say that the classes are cake.

The purpose of the BU program is so that you take first-year med school classes along-side the first year med school students. This means that you're in the same lecture halls, sitting beside the current first-years, and you take the same exams (except you're graded, and they're pass/fail).

This year, half the class was put in the year-long Physio class, and has never taken a course with the med students, and will only have the opportunity in May with Endo or Immuno. Biochem is a GMS class without med students in it. Depending on whether you take Histo in the fall or the Spring, you may be able to take almost all med classes (fall Histo/spring Physio people) or NO med classes (year-long Physio/spring Histo people). Half the class - the spring Histo/year-long Physio folks - gets totally shafted. So no, the classes are NOT necessarily with med students, and if they keep increasing the GMS class size, then MOST of the class with not be taking classes with med students. It's not like G'town, where the entire SMP class takes their classes together and with the med students. G'town caps the class size and keep admission to the program competitive.

If BU keeps expanding the program, it's going to start to suck. They won't overstuff med classes because the med students are the priority, not us. So this program is getting more and more watered down. I also think that there is a significant effect of load on perceived difficulty. If you only have two serious science classes at once, it's just not that hard to do well. If it is, then you have serious time management issues. There is no reason that every person in the class couldn't have aced Biochem, but people are lazy. The material isn't hard, it's just a matter of time management and sitting down and memorizing. That's easy when you have loads of time and only one other science class. For the meds, however, taking Biochem and Physio and Endo and Immuno and Neuroscience and the doctoring classes and ICP all at once, then yeah, that would be hard. See the difference?

I don't see how the classes could not be an accurate representation of how med school classes will be, when they ARE the med school classes (with the exception of biostats. but no one cares about that class anyways. easy A). The only difference is that you're taking half the load. Some classes, like Anatomy, are off-limits for GMS students. Perhaps this is what stinky-cheese meant?

Like I said above, it is partly perceived load. But you have to remember that for half of the class, there will be NO classes with med students AT ALL unless they stay an extra month to take endo. Meanwhile, the other half of the class gets to take Physio, Histo, Neuroscience (if they choose), etc, etc with the med students if they want. It is totally unfair. And none of the electives are generally with med students, and that makes up half a GMSer's program.

Also, in dr. franzblau's defense - i have a hard time seeing him yelling at anyone. he's old, a little frail, thin, and wears a bowtie!

No argument here - I love him.

I think it's also important to keep in mind that the purpose of the program isn't to be a buffer while you apply. You get the most benefit out of the program if you apply AFTER a year of classes (then you have the grades on there). It's not designed to cater to students who are applying at the same time that they enter the program. It sounds like stinkycheese and chitown didn't need BU (they probably would've gotten in this year without going to BU), and that's great! congrats guys! but just because BU was unnecessary for med school admissions for these particular individuals doesn't mean that BU doesn't help other applicants get into medical school.

I understand that, but I question whether BU is doing some students a disservice by taking them into this program. It seems like they want to expand the class size to make more money for the med school (which treats GMS'ers like **** anyway), but they don't care if they're realistically trying to make sure that in the process of making the class bigger, they are still being realistic about taking people who stand a good chance with successful completion of the program.

However, I think the most important thing to keep in mind is - do you want to go to med school? It's a hard road either way. You're working against stigma regardless (whether it's a low GPA, you're a reapplicant, etc.). I had my own gripes about the program (yes the admin staff grates at times), but the bottom line is - it delivered for me. I overcame my 3.1 undergrad GPA, I have 10+ interviews, and so far 1 acceptance and 1 waitlist (still waiting on results from the rest).

That's great, but I know second-years from good undergrads and okay grades in GMS who have still gotten the shaft from every school, including BU.

I love the program and the people in it. For me, it has been a relaxing way to spend the last year before medical school and I have made some awesome friends, met some faculty I will admire for the rest of my life, and generally had a great time. But I do think there are some red flags being thrown up this year about the direction this program is heading, and I worry for the future generations of GMS'ers. For me, it all worked out regardless... but I worry about the people I care about who are applying to med next year, and for those who might come to GMS thinking that you will take classes with med students, etc.

 

[Singing Devil]

I love the program and the people in it. For me, it has been a relaxing way to spend the last year before medical school and I have made some awesome friends, met some faculty I will admire for the rest of my life, and generally had a great time. But I do think there are some red flags being thrown up this year about the direction this program is heading, and I worry for the future generations of GMS'ers. For me, it all worked out regardless... but I worry about the people I care about who are applying to med next year, and for those who might come to GMS thinking that you will take classes with med students, etc.

Some of this is true. Let me address some issues which have been raised thus far. First of all, the enrollment has NOT increase by 50% this year (I think chitown82 said this). I'm sorry, that's just entirely false. My understanding, from people in the GMS office, is that enrollment is slightly higher than last year, and that it's essentially been capped off because of lack of space/resources/teachers/etc. One of the problems with biochemistry this last semester is that a lot of the combination undergrad/med programs that BU has were integrated with it, so the class size expanded greatly. However, the GMS program overall has stayed relatively consistent in its size, with only a modest increase this past year, if any (I have this from several people in the adminstration).

If you found Histo easy, well, you didn't take summer histo, that's all I can say. Look, people, whether you take courses with med students or not, the fact remains that any course taken that is a MEDICAL SCHOOL course is difficulty-wise identical to actual medical school coursework. The fact is that there are only a handful of courses at BU that meet this criteria, but they are there: Neuro, Endo, Immuno, Physio, Biochem, Histo. I believe you can take summer Gross, although I wouldn't.

Chitown82, I'd like to see you take Neuro. If you ace it with little effort, as I'm sure you're going to do in Physio, hey, you're the bomb. Go to the little medical school in Longwood and leave those of us who are struggling to get in be. The average person who enters this program is not going to get several interviews after his/her first semester at BU, and may not after his/her second year.

I couldn't be happier with my BU experience. Not because of the facilities, which an average dorm at my undergrad can exceed, although I went to a rich school. Not because of the South End, which despite what Chitown82 said, is one of the nicest areas in Boston and much better than huge chunks of Cambridge (although the area around BU is on the edge and hasn't been greatly regentrified yet). Not because of the teachers who range from extremely impressive (O'Bryan, Vaughan), to extremely questionable (Tornheim). Not because of the adminstrative staff, seven or so people who have to deal with the entire graduate population and who have to spoon feed so many graduate students (go to ANY graduate school and ask the students how much babying they get from the admin, and GMS students get way more. The staff is more helpful than you'll find at virtually any graduate program. Seriously, ask your friends who are PhD and Masters candidates around the country how much they have to do on their own.) Not because of the cost, which is pretty damn high. Not because of any of the griping I have heard.

No, I like this program because it has given me, cammy, lightnk, and any one else who has been in it and taken full advantage of it what no other program did. A chance.

Last time I applied, I got two interviews and was waitlisted at one school which is widely considered a "safety" school. This time, I have already interviewed or been invited to interview at four schools, three of which are in the US News top 25, and BU as well. I just got another invite today.

If that's not a successful program, I don't know what is.

 

[cammy1313]

Woot woot Singing Devil!

 

[auriclle]

I graduated from the program in January of 2004 (took a year and a half to complete it, and did a laboratory thesis.) I've just spent almost a year applying to schools and working as a research assistant, and I got into medical school. I'm starting this fall. I agree with much of what tritonsolo said about the program, the area, etc, what was posted seems pretty helpful and accurate to me. You can go to the website and read all about the requirements, the classes you take, etc. I just want to address the people who are wondering if it's worth it.

I think it's worth it if you know that you truly want to go to medical school, and you have enough discipline to commit yourself to all of the studying. It was the hardest academic period I've ever had. The BU program is tough. I was an English/pre-med major in college, and had a A-/B+ average and didn't think it was enough to get in, so I applied to BU. I think a lot of your success in the program depends on starting on the right foot, and going to the right people if/when you run into trouble. First of all, live nearby, if you can--my commute was up to two hours a day, and the Boston transit system isn't exactly reliable in that area. Secondly, study with people---even if you were very successful studying by yourself in college. Third, go to Dr. Broitman when you need encouragement or reassurance, Dr. Walsh (pharmacology) for help and ideas with your thesis, and (although I hate to point out people who weren't so helpful) you might want to stay away from S. Wilxcox and P. O'Bryan; they'll make your bad day worse. I know plenty of people who ended up in tears after meeting with them. Keeping in touch with your pre-med college advisors can be helpful too. Fourth, keep volunteering and keep up with your hobbies. For some reason we were discouraged from volunteering, but the medical school I'll be going to was really interested in what I was doing for extra-curriculars during the program. And finally, do a laboratory thesis. You have two choices on how to do what is basically a perfunctory thesis. You can do a "library thesis" which is just what it sounds like--researching in the library and writing a paper. You get credit for that, but not a grade. A "laboratory" thesis isn't necessary done in a lab. I did a patient chart review at the hospital. It was above and beyond what was required, but it got me the job I'm at now, and a huge 8 credit A that counted towards my gpa.

I think the biggest problem I had with the program was you do tend to get lost in the shuffle, and there is not a lot of student support from the administration. I think almost any medical school will give you far more support, because they have invested lots of time and money into making you a successful doctor. This program doesn't have that kind of investment in you, so it does seem colder. A couple people in the administration didn't think I had a chance of getting in anywhere, and Wilcox, who writes the dean's letter, really had no faith (I sat in her office wishing she wasn't the one writing.) But what do they know--I got several interviews and got into my top choice.

The GMS (Graduate Medical Sciences) students are treated like second class in some ways; I think a lot of the frustration stems from being responsible for medical school curricula while still trying to prove that you could be a med student somewhere. GMS students get grades, while the med students get pass/fail, sometimes GMS students are responsible for more material than the meds, like in biochemistry. But again, I really got the impression that everyone's experience depended on having good support with friends and study partners. That makes all the difference, just like it does anywhere else. I took the MCAT in August, by the way, although they recommended taking it in April. I waited until classes were over and I could devote the time, and the Bio section is a breeze after taking those classes.

If you do the program in a year, and then apply at the end of that year, you’ll have to find a job for a year or so. That’s fine. You can take a bit of a break, earn some money, and you won’t be taking off for interviews while you’re still taking exams, etc. If you put a lot of effort into this program and hang in there, you’ll have a good chance of getting into medical school somewhere.

 

[lightnk102]

That's great, but I know second-years from good undergrads and okay grades in GMS who have still gotten the shaft from every school, including BU.

Wow. I didn't know this. I'm sorry .

I'm a current second-year, and of the people I know, even my one classmate with a 3.3 from the GMS program and a <30 MCAT has two interviews.

I do think its interesting that we have two first-years (who already got into med school without needing BU's GMS) criticizing the program, and a few second years (who GMS helped) trying to bolster it up. Perhaps our difference of opinion stems mostly from our difference in backgrounds, which probably colors our view of the program.

I'm actually one of the people who took the year-long physiology class. Based on what I've seen, there is negligible difference in difficulty, as the year-long version tests in much greater detail than the semester version does. I also took the GMS version of Histology. Considering that it's taught by the same professor, uses the same materials, and the exams are written by the same people, I think it'd be hard to quantify that the GMS Histology is easier. I spoke to the Histology professor prior to signing up for it becuase I had the same concerns you did, and Vaughn assured me that she wouldn't dream of cutting the GMS kids a break (ha). Summer histology is difficult just by virtue of the fact that you're inhaling all that histology information in a one-month period. But let's face it - none of the med school material is ever conceptually difficult. It's difficult just due to sheer volume of information that you have to push into your head. I don't think taking the GMS version made a difference in my application process since it shows up as "Histology", regardless of when I took it. I suppose the GMS version may lack the "fuzzies" of literally sitting beside the med students. That seems like a minor detail in my opinion. You can even argue that in a smaller class, you get to know the professor better since ther'es less of a mob at the front of the room afterwards. In a nutshell, I was part of the half that didn't take classes with med students until endo/immuno. But so far in this app process, I don't feel like I got shafted . To me, it's just semantics. I personally don't know anyone from my year who took the GMS version of things and is having a harder time with applications directly because of that, but I also don't know everyone in my classes (was quite anti-social that year) Regardless of whether you're sitting right beside med students or not, I think the hard and fast rule is to do well in the program (>3.5 GPA) and get a strong MCAT score in order to improve your chances for med school. It is easy to get lost in the shuffle at BU, so it's important to know what you want and have the chutzpah to go for it.

I'm sorry that your friends are having such a tough time StinkyCheese . Perhaps the program has changed a lot since last year (I'm no longer even in the area). But, congrats to you on getting into school . Are you sure you still love Boston even with the recent blizzard?

edit: for those who are concerned, the GMS program helped tons with MCAT Bio. I took the August MCAT (first time MCAT-taker) and focused only on Chem, Physics, and Orgo.

 

[chitown82]

Some of this is true. Let me address some issues which have been raised thus far. First of all, the enrollment has NOT increase by 50% this year (I think chitown82 said this). I'm sorry, that's just entirely false. My understanding, from people in the GMS office, is that enrollment is slightly higher than last year, and that it's essentially been capped off because of lack of space/resources/teachers/etc. One of the problems with biochemistry this last semester is that a lot of the combination undergrad/med programs that BU has were integrated with it, so the class size expanded greatly. However, the GMS program overall has stayed relatively consistent in its size, with only a modest increase this past year, if any (I have this from several people in the adminstration).

If you found Histo easy, well, you didn't take summer histo, that's all I can say. Look, people, whether you take courses with med students or not, the fact remains that any course taken that is a MEDICAL SCHOOL course is difficulty-wise identical to actual medical school coursework. The fact is that there are only a handful of courses at BU that meet this criteria, but they are there: Neuro, Endo, Immuno, Physio, Biochem, Histo. I believe you can take summer Gross, although I wouldn't.

Chitown82, I'd like to see you take Neuro. If you ace it with little effort, as I'm sure you're going to do in Physio, hey, you're the bomb. Go to the little medical school in Longwood and leave those of us who are struggling to get in be. The average person who enters this program is not going to get several interviews after his/her first semester at BU, and may not after his/her second year.

I couldn't be happier with my BU experience. Not because of the facilities, which an average dorm at my undergrad can exceed, although I went to a rich school. Not because of the South End, which despite what Chitown82 said, is one of the nicest areas in Boston and much better than huge chunks of Cambridge (although the area around BU is on the edge and hasn't been greatly regentrified yet). Not because of the teachers who range from extremely impressive (O'Bryan, Vaughan), to extremely questionable (Tornheim). Not because of the adminstrative staff, seven or so people who have to deal with the entire graduate population and who have to spoon feed so many graduate students (go to ANY graduate school and ask the students how much babying they get from the admin, and GMS students get way more. The staff is more helpful than you'll find at virtually any graduate program. Seriously, ask your friends who are PhD and Masters candidates around the country how much they have to do on their own.) Not because of the cost, which is pretty damn high. Not because of any of the griping I have heard.

No, I like this program because it has given me, cammy, lightnk, and any one else who has been in it and taken full advantage of it what no other program did. A chance.

Last time I applied, I got two interviews and was waitlisted at one school which is widely considered a "safety" school. This time, I have already interviewed or been invited to interview at four schools, three of which are in the US News top 25, and BU as well. I just got another invite today.

If that's not a successful program, I don't know what is.

Congrats on the success you've had in the program. Your experiences (from the students I have talked to) are pretty unique. People here love the program (such as yourself), but there are plenty that dislike like it (such as myself). I don't know of such a disparity in other post-baccs. I had typed up a huge response to your post and stinkycheese's but my computer froze when trying to post. One of the things I said is that the BU program is very much or hit or miss with students. Much like anything, some will love it and some won't. However, I don't feel people who go through the program should have sub-standard support from the admin/advisors, etc. This, unfortunately, is the case with me and a bunch of others I know. Again, to each his own.

I'd like to know what a slightly higher enrollment is. From the admin I've talked to, there are about 40-50 extra MA Medical Sciences students this year.

Btw, Singing Devil, thanks for helping me out with a few questions I had about the program back when I PMed you this summer. Sound advice. Question - do you have any friends in the program who aren't having my success applying to medical school? Also, I'm not sure I agree with your comment about receiving help from the GMS staff. Many people on this thread echo the gripes I have with them and their lack of support. And I know plenty of people who are "spoon-fed" in their graduate programs (masters, PhD's, etc) and I'm sure you know many who aren't.

 

[lightnk102]

now that i think further about it, it's kinda funny that i find myself defending the GMS program when i complained bitterly about it all last year.

but i guess when it gets you to where you want to go... I suppose in hindsight, all the little annoyances don't seem as glaring anymore.

i think the most education i got out of GMS was from my fellow students. i've never met a more dedicated and more driven set of students. there are still times when I feel like I don't deserve to get into med school, because there were a lot of people who worked a lot harder than i did and wanted it more. it reassured me that there really do exist premeds who work hard and still like to party it up. They seemed very... surprisingly and relievingly normal and socially well-adjusted. Though I guess you can argue that their social well-adjustment may be why they're in GMS. I like to think of them as people who as undergrads, maybe partied a little too much, drank a little too much, smoked a little too much. And now have turned serious. All in all, a good bunch. Though,like every crowd, there's always the few that get to you.

 

[sepaul]

It is great to hear all of the enthusiam about the program as well as doubts people have on the money making angle that schools work. I just saw a report on 60 min that spoke to the ITT, U of Pheonix and others like them. They are lying and cheeting people out of their money by selling them the false hope that they will get the job of their dreams. The Fed's has been shelling out loan money and made some companies the darlings of Wall Street. The $ in loans is easy to secure for the schools, yet, difficult to pay back if you have a crappy or no job. However, I am discouraged by the ever increasing cost of medical school tuition (see aamc.org) and their little brothers the post-baccs.

Not to go on a rant about theses types of schools, I would like to point out my personal feelings of where "private/coorprate" education is heading and my reservations of this "post-bacc" industry.

Standards are huge: ie. admissions and rigor of classwork. Applicants need hard and detailed data to make informend decisions. It seems that many schools throw around this magical 85% acceptance figure, yet, its meaning seems to elude me. Where are these students going to school? What are there statistics? Example: with a 3.0 undergrad and a 30 MCAT after this MA what is the sucess rate for this group?

I am sceptical of the direction our college/graduatee ducation system is moving. How can we be sure that post-baccs are not recruiting people inadequatly prepare students by selling them fantasy stories how the MA degree (post-bacc) is a ticket to an MD.

This is an expensive process and a large financial decision, however, the MD degree will easily make up for that in future earnings. However, I need to stay in firmly grounded in reality. I desire both a post-bacc that will make me an awesome candidate for med school as well as providing the insurance policy that this degree will pay off in some other way (ie. a higher paying job in teh mean time).

Anyone else feel me on this?

 

[cammy1313]

This is an expensive process and a large financial decision, however, the MD degree will easily make up for that in future earnings. However, I need to stay in firmly grounded in reality. I desire both a post-bacc that will make me an awesome candidate for med school as well as providing the insurance policy that this degree will pay off in some other way (ie. a higher paying job in teh mean time).

Anyone else feel me on this?

I feel you, and I'll try to give you my simplified answers to your questions.

1) Post-bacs most definately bait you and give false hope. What you as the applicant have to assess is whether you can turn what they offer into something that will work for you. Forget all of the hand holding they boast about, just take take take what you can get from your $30K!

2) Higher paying job from a post-bac = masters degree, period.

 

[lightnk102]

It seems that many schools throw around this magical 85% acceptance figure, yet, its meaning seems to elude me. Where are these students going to school? What are there statistics? Example: with a 3.0 undergrad and a 30 MCAT after this MA what is the sucess rate for this group?

One thing I always questioned were the statistics as well. Make sure and ask whether this 85% number is for allopathic schools only or whether it includes DO and caribbean schools. Also make sure and ask whether it's 85% acceptance on the first time applying after the post-bacc.

Even without the statistics, some post-bacc work is usually better than none (especially if you have GPA problems). I'd say "BU/(insert other SMP program name here) or Bust" is a pretty good mentality to have. You should never shell out $30k and not make good on it.

A master's in medical science will only translate to greater earning potential in non-science fields. People in science will recognize it to be a "fluffy" master's. But let's say medicine doesn't work out for you and you go into law. Then having a Master's in Medical Science may translate to a higher salary, especially if you work in patent law or health-related law.

 

[Singing Devil]

Congrats on the success you've had in the program. Your experiences (from the students I have talked to) are pretty unique. People here love the program (such as yourself), but there are plenty that dislike like it (such as myself). I don't know of such a disparity in other post-baccs. I had typed up a huge response to your post and stinkycheese's but my computer froze when trying to post. One of the things I said is that the BU program is very much or hit or miss with students. Much like anything, some will love it and some won't. However, I don't feel people who go through the program should have sub-standard support from the admin/advisors, etc. This, unfortunately, is the case with me and a bunch of others I know. Again, to each his own.

I'd like to know what a slightly higher enrollment is. From the admin I've talked to, there are about 40-50 extra MA Medical Sciences students this year.

Btw, Singing Devil, thanks for helping me out with a few questions I had about the program back when I PMed you this summer. Sound advice. Question - do you have any friends in the program who aren't having my success applying to medical school? Also, I'm not sure I agree with your comment about receiving help from the GMS staff. Many people on this thread echo the gripes I have with them and their lack of support. And I know plenty of people who are "spoon-fed" in their graduate programs (masters, PhD's, etc) and I'm sure you know many who aren't.

My understanding regarding the enrollment is that there was a change in the degree/non-degree ratio, but that the total number of students didn't change significantly (~10%). I'm sure we each have our sources and feel confident in their statements. I've always gotten along pretty well with everybody in the GMS office (and everyone says hello to me by name, which is a little unusual), so I trust their veracity.

I understand what you say about the staff being sometimes unhelpful. Here's the thing about the GMS staff--they tend to treat people like adults, in the sense that they expect you to do a fair number of things on your own. My personal experience in the real world is that this is how it works outside of undergrad, and many of my friends who are in graduate school feel the same way. So many of my Ph.D. or Masters friends are always bitching about their advisor (never around, never know what to do, etc., etc., etc.) and I hear the same thing in my current lab. I can tell you that this is pretty typical once you reach a certain level in academia--basically, people present the info, and it's up to you to take care of the rest. I think professional schools, e.g. medical school, tend to have a very different focus. I'm significantly older than most of the students (now a very young 30), so I'm probably not as "bright-eyed" as most graduate students and I can see that the GMS staff doesn't need their time wasted, so I've always gotten to the point and gotten out.

So, I guess my point is, the GMS program, by forcing people who are often a little immature or young to do a lot of stuff on their own, sort of makes them more committed and dedicated adults. For example, getting an advisor is basically something you do on your own, yet it teaches you to be aggressive in your pursuit of your goals--and this is the sort of behavior that gets you good grades and gets you into medical school. I talked to five or six different professors in order to get into a research lab, and now I'm in a pretty good one. I learned a lot about the proper approach to this program from Dr. Vaughan, and also from her course, and I think that helped me do well.

It's no rose garden--it's rather what you make of it. If you use the fertilizer right, you may get a rose garden. If not, you may be stuck with a bunch of crap.

I think this sounds like a bunch of rambling mess, but I hope somebody can understand what I'm getting at.

 

[chitown82]

My understanding regarding the enrollment is that there was a change in the degree/non-degree ratio, but that the total number of students didn't change significantly (~10%). I'm sure we each have our sources and feel confident in their statements. I've always gotten along pretty well with everybody in the GMS office (and everyone says hello to me by name, which is a little unusual), so I trust their veracity.

I understand what you say about the staff being sometimes unhelpful. Here's the thing about the GMS staff--they tend to treat people like adults, in the sense that they expect you to do a fair number of things on your own. My personal experience in the real world is that this is how it works outside of undergrad, and many of my friends who are in graduate school feel the same way. So many of my Ph.D. or Masters friends are always bitching about their advisor (never around, never know what to do, etc., etc., etc.) and I hear the same thing in my current lab. I can tell you that this is pretty typical once you reach a certain level in academia--basically, people present the info, and it's up to you to take care of the rest. I think professional schools, e.g. medical school, tend to have a very different focus. I'm significantly older than most of the students (now a very young 30), so I'm probably not as "bright-eyed" as most graduate students and I can see that the GMS staff doesn't need their time wasted, so I've always gotten to the point and gotten out.

So, I guess my point is, the GMS program, by forcing people who are often a little immature or young to do a lot of stuff on their own, sort of makes them more committed and dedicated adults. For example, getting an advisor is basically something you do on your own, yet it teaches you to be aggressive in your pursuit of your goals--and this is the sort of behavior that gets you good grades and gets you into medical school. I talked to five or six different professors in order to get into a research lab, and now I'm in a pretty good one. I learned a lot about the proper approach to this program from Dr. Vaughan, and also from her course, and I think that helped me do well.

It's no rose garden--it's rather what you make of it. If you use the fertilizer right, you make get a rose garden. If not, you may be stuck with a bunch of crap.

I think this sounds like a bunch of rambling mess, but I hope somebody can understand what I'm getting at.

Great points and all very valid. In my personal situation, I've e-mailed Susan Wilcox on three separate matters (regarding questions only she could help me with as I was told by Dr. Franzblau and Natasha Hall) three times each. Not once did I receive a response from her. No matter where you go or what level of academia you have reached, this is unprofessional. I've had to have people in higher positions e-mail her directly just for her to get in touch with me. These are isolated incidents and I can't generalize the GMS office based on this, but my experiences with the other individuals has not been very positive (except with Natasha Hall and Kelly).

 

[stinkycheese]

Great points and all very valid. In my personal situation, I've e-mailed Susan Wilcox on three separate matters (regarding questions only she could help me with as I was told by Dr. Franzblau and Natasha Hall) three times each. Not once did I receive a response from her. No matter where you go or what level of academia you have reached, this is unprofessional. I've had to have people in higher positions e-mail her directly just for her to get in touch with me. These are isolated incidents and I can't generalize the GMS office based on this, but my experiences with the other individuals has not been very positive (except with Natasha Hall and Kelly).

I've had a great experience with all administrators EXCEPT for Susan Wilcox, who is uninterested in being helpful in any way.

 

[giorgeo]

Hi do any of you know if you can apply to be non-degree student if I'm rejected from the MA for Fall 2005? I ask b/c I have a sub-par GPA 2.6 with 32S MCAT and may not be able to matriculate in Fall 2005. Also if I do well in first semester as non-degree, will my chances significantly increase for matriculation into Winter/Spring (not sure how their system works) semester? Michelle Hall in admissions told me there are no guarantees from non-degree to degree.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[wannabedoc34]

JUST APPLIED TO BU, when WILL I know of the outcome? How long does it usually take?

 

[dca_55]

Does any current BU MA student have current information about tuition and costs? I'm trying to find out the costs on the website and can't find them.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

I'm not a current student, but the last page of this might be what you're looking for:

http://cobalt.bumc.bu.edu/current/Catalog/print/gms-adm.pdf

 

[lightnk102]

Hi do any of you know if you can apply to be non-degree student if I'm rejected from the MA for Fall 2005? I ask b/c I have a sub-par GPA 2.6 with 32S MCAT and may not be able to matriculate in Fall 2005. Also if I do well in first semester as non-degree, will my chances significantly increase for matriculation into Winter/Spring (not sure how their system works) semester? Michelle Hall in admissions told me there are no guarantees from non-degree to degree.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

one of my friends was a non-degree student first semester and became a degree student second semester. as a non-degree student, you can't take as many classes as degree students can, which will put you behind in the game. simply matriculating as a non-degree students in the fall won't guarantee you admission in the spring. but performingly strongly in the fall as a non-degree student likely will.

 

[dds0610]

anyone know if they accept the DAT in place of the GRE?

 

[Neha25]

Did any of you, or anyone you know start the BU MAMS program in the SPRING? i was thinking of staying at my undergrad school (its a good school and i get a good financial aid package) for another semester to up my gpa a little before starting the MAMS. I want to apply next summer after being in the program for a semester. anybody know the advantages and disadvantages to this? what course schedule would u take?

 

[jklasser17]

Did any of you, or anyone you know start the BU MAMS program in the SPRING? i was thinking of staying at my undergrad school (its a good school and i get a good financial aid package) for another semester to up my gpa a little before starting the MAMS. I want to apply next summer after being in the program for a semester. anybody know the advantages and disadvantages to this? what course schedule would u take?

You can indeed start the program in the spring. I would call up Natasha Hall if I were you and get more info. You would take essentially the same coursework, as the other MAMS students are taking that semester. However, you could take Histo over the summer, and take only Biochem in the fall.

See the posts on the other thread for this.