"camaraderie," USUHS vs. HPSP student life

[chauchat]

I'd like to get an idea of student life at USUHS. I've heard it's "cooperative"- what does this entail, more specifically?
Do you get to know students in your class well? What do you do extracurricularly and around town to have fun?
Do you wear uniforms every day, even outside of classes?

USUHS students are much more integrated into things military - with their uniform wearing, military classes built into their schedule, field exercises, and classmates all entering military medicine. Are HPSP students at a disadvantage for lacking these experiences?

I've wondered about HPSP...you have a committment to the military, but you live and do your thing without ever being confronted with this fact or having to think about it, other than 45 days of AD a year. How do you keep up the spirit and focus on your goal? It seems that at USUHS, with all your classmates in the same boat, you'd likely be more informed about your options and have people to talk over things with, etc.

I appreciate your input, guys.

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[RugbyJC]

As a Navy HPSP student I often do feel like I am cut off from the military, even thought there are 8 other military students at my school. I feel like a civilian who just happens to have a uniform in her closet. It's both good and bad. It's good because I get to act like a civilian--dress in street clothes, no rules or extra discipline (I don't really know how much stricter it is at USHUS), etc. The bad part is that as HPSP students you kinda have to figure out the military part of your education on your own--mostly administrative things like getting orders, rimbursements, things that you are suppose to turn in annually that no one told you. Yes, we have a website, which is 10 times better now than when I started, but we're a little misguided. It's petty, but gets a little frustrating during first year until things are figured out. I also wish I had exposure to some of the field training, but at the same time I am happy where I am.

Don't think that really answers your question, but the short answer is, Yes, you are disconnected as HPSP, but this is not always a bad thing.

 

[psychbender]

I've wondered about HPSP...you have a committment to the military, but you live and do your thing without ever being confronted with this fact or having to think about it, other than 45 days of AD a year. How do you keep up the spirit and focus on your goal? It seems that at USUHS, with all your classmates in the same boat, you'd likely be more informed about your options and have people to talk over things with, etc.

I appreciate your input, guys.

My school has a decently active AMOPS (Association of Military Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons), with all the students on HPSP, and most of those with other AD paybacks (ROTC w/educational delay) being members. We have the benefit of having several members who are prior service, and can help those of us who aren't with things like uniforms, customs/courtesies, etc. Our faculty advisor (a retired AF Col) also helps us a lot with scheduling NADT military rotations (our school lets us do 3 mos at military sites for both 3rd and 4th years), and translating the requirements of the scholarship. We've also tried in the past, with mixed success, to do some trainings, like a Combat Lifesaver class, and there was some talk of trying to work with the Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets to participate in some of their FTXs, ropes training, or BRM.

 

[R-Me-Doc]

I'd like to get an idea of student life at USUHS.

Sorry, I was HPSP, so I can't tell you much about USUHS

I've wondered about HPSP...you have a committment to the military, but you live and do your thing without ever being confronted with this fact or having to think about it, other than 45 days of AD a year.

Ya know, medical school has this funny way of keeping you from getting distracted by other, more remote, stuff . . . I rarely, if ever, thought much about my future life in the military until I had to do something directly connected to it (i.e., coordinate an ADT, apply for military match, etc). You are much more wrapped up in the daily routine of studying, testing, seeing patients, and trying to have a social life than you are thinking about the Army.

How do you keep up the spirit and focus on your goal? It seems that at USUHS, with all your classmates in the same boat, you'd likely be more informed about your options and have people to talk over things with, etc.

This is actually a good point. We certainly were NOT kept "in the loop" by our regional HPSP "coordinator," who was pretty useless. What saved me (and others of my ilk) was the fact that we had a couple of prior service officers in our HPSP group who could explain how things worked and help out with questions. They were a great resource, and I bet most med schools have at least one prior-service-type lurking around.

X-RMD

 

[resxn]

I was HPSP and have to say that I was more than happy to be completely free of any military contact except to turn in my weight each year and submit my reimbursement forms.

I didn't have anyone help me out and it was in the days before there was a web site available. Basically, I got a handbook and used that somewhat.

I really didn't care as long as I got the money I was supposed to get. I honestly didn't care at all about having any military training (other than OTS)of any sort simply because I was told by a reasonably wise doc that it wouldn't matter. He was right; AD life is so different you can't really do much to "prepare" for it. Information on this board is probably as valuable as you'll get anywhere.

As far as the C4, CBRNE, and other military-specific training. Don't worry, you will rarely use it unless deployed and if deployed you'll get so much of it, you won't feel that you missed out.

Comraderie? Well, as HPSP I only had a few guys in school who did it and we didn't really hang out much--they were in different branches anyway. On AD, it doesn't matter if you were USU or HPSP--no one cares and I rarely get asked which route I took. Although morale is often low, the docs stick together, especially in our surgical flight. We're all in the same boat and we all watch each other's backs. It is a great group of people which I will miss when I get out. It's similar comraderie to what I had in residency.

As a resident our motto was always "Attendings are not your friends." No matter how much you got along or hung out with them, you were a resident and would be a scapegoat at their whim. We had great attendings and this was still the underlying golden rule. It feels the same in the AF. "Commanders are not your friend." You may really get along with them and hang out, play golf together, whatever. But don't assume that will protect you when you need it. It may, but don't count on it. In general, the comraderie goes laterally, but not vertically.

 

[chauchat]

thanks all, these are great responses. a school with an AMOPS organization seems like an ideal setup for hpsp. i'll keep thinking...

 

[paradude]

I'd like to get an idea of student life at USUHS. I've heard it's "cooperative"- what does this entail, more specifically?
Do you get to know students in your class well? What do you do extracurricularly and around town to have fun?
Do you wear uniforms every day, even outside of classes?

-I also remember being told at orientation that the student body fostered a cooperative spirit and I've found that to be the case. Here are a couple of examples:

-we're currently going through a Head and Neck block, students have built power point presentations of the material that worked for them while studying and then emailed it out to the entire class. Also, one artistically inclined student put together a great study guide on the ascending and descending neuro pathways and sent it out to the class. Sometimes students send out links to other material on the web relevant to our course. This kind of stuff happens all the time for all of our classes. I don't know if that kind of thing goes on at other schools but it is really great to see here.

-Yes, you get to know students in your class well. You see them for 7-14 hours every day. I've found that most people develop a core group of 2-5 friends that they do things with outside of the university.

-What sort of things do we do? There are 170 students with very different backgrounds. I'm sure anything you can imagine is going on. There are lots of intramural sports teams and interest groups. Also, DC is a pretty big, cosmopolitan town.

-Yes, we wear uniforms every day. Class A's on Mon-Fri (that's like slacks and a nice shirt) and BDUs or ACUs on Thu-Fri (your basic camouflage uniform). Personally, I like not having to decide what I'm wearing in the morning. Also, a great accoutrement for garnering free beers at lunch after a test.

 

[MedicalCorpse]

I'd like to get an idea of student life at USUHS. I've heard it's "cooperative"- what does this entail, more specifically?
Do you get to know students in your class well? What do you do extracurricularly and around town to have fun?
Do you wear uniforms every day, even outside of classes?

I found my years at USUHS to be among the best in my life (1986-1990). Sadly, USUHS does very little to prepare physicians to deal with the "slings and arrows" of outrageous "Independent Practictioners" of various ilks (CRNAs, PAs, NPs, Nurse Midwives, Janitors Who Watch House, etc.).

You might want to read the response I gave to USU when they asked for feedback from graduates re: strengths/weaknesses of the university program:

http://www.medicalcorpse.com/USUsurvey.doc

Hope this helps,

--
Rob
USU Class of 1990

 

[resxn]

-I also remember being told at orientation that the student body fostered a cooperative spirit and I've found that to be the case. Here are a couple of examples:

-we're currently going through a Head and Neck block, students have built power point presentations of the material that worked for them while studying and then emailed it out to the entire class. Also, one artistically inclined student put together a great study guide on the ascending and descending neuro pathways and sent it out to the class. Sometimes students send out links to other material on the web relevant to our course. This kind of stuff happens all the time for all of our classes. I don't know if that kind of thing goes on at other schools but it is really great to see here.

-Yes, you get to know students in your class well. You see them for 7-14 hours every day. I've found that most people develop a core group of 2-5 friends that they do things with outside of the university.

I would say that the same thing occurred in my medical school and probably occurs at most state or private med schools. We only had 84 med students in my class and so everyone knew everyone very well. Our school wanted to foster cooperation as much as possible so they insisted on no AOA, no class rank, no grades (just p/f), no bell curves, or any other metric that would cause competition. It worked, people shared stuff without hesitation including notes and computer stuff. People often formed small study groups that also acted like their immediate social network, usually anywhere from 3-8 students made up those groups depending on personalities and other factors. It was rare to have one group not get along with another but it did happen occaisionally.

The only drawback for my school was that if you were trying to get into a competitive residency, it was hard to show the programs to which you applied that you were any better than anyone else because you didn't have a metric other than USMLE scores to prove it. Basically, if you didn't ace Step I or have some awesome extracurricular stuff and/or research you struggled to get into competitive residencies. The school was ok with that though because they really pushed students toward primary care rather than specialty care.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I would say that the same thing occurred in my medical school and probably occurs at most state or private med schools. We only had 84 med students in my class and so everyone knew everyone very well. Our school wanted to foster cooperation as much as possible so they insisted on no AOA, no class rank, no grades (just p/f), no bell curves, or any other metric that would cause competition. It worked, people shared stuff without hesitation including notes and computer stuff. People often formed small study groups that also acted like their immediate social network, usually anywhere from 3-8 students made up those groups depending on personalities and other factors. .

Same story here. In fact, my most competitive moments as a medical student were when I came head to head with other students during military clinical rotations (my ADTs) because by then we had realized just how competitive the military match was going to be and we realized we wouldn't all get what we wanted. It seems to me at USUHS you would constantly be facing that fact. If you know you are competing with the other 8 people in your class who want your specialty and you know there are only 8 spots for it and that there are 30 HPSP applicants who want those 8 spots too, it would be difficult to be real "cooperative" with your classmates, if you get my drift.

 

[Jet915]

Im an HPSPer and other than OIS and your 4th year externships, there really isn't any connection to the military except those emails they send us once a month. I have a friend who is a USUHS 4th year and based on what he tells me, he doesn't seem to like it very much, doesnt really associate w/other branches and always asks me whether he's getting sufficient training compared to civilian counterparts. I told him that when I was at NMCSD, I thought the care was as good or even better than my civilian hospital but I'm Navy and he's in a different branch so who knows.

 

[buffdoc]

Is the USUHS cirriculum taught in blocks, or do they use a more traditional medical school cirriculum?

I have an interview there in about 2 weeks and I don't want to sound stupid, but I really want to know and I can't tell from looking at their website.

Thanks in advance.

 

[paradude]

Is the USUHS cirriculum taught in blocks, or do they use a more traditional medical school cirriculum?

I have an interview there in about 2 weeks and I don't want to sound stupid, but I really want to know and I can't tell from looking at their website.

Thanks in advance.

I'm going to assume that by "blocks" you are referring to a curriculum that teachs one subject all day for 7 or 8 weeks before moving on to something else. That is not the method employed at USU. The schedule is currently comprised of three terms, each lasting about 3-3.5 months. The first term is mostly Biochemistry and Anatomy. The second term is loaded heavily with Neuroanatomy and the third term is primarily Physiology. These classes are taught in conjunction with other classes, probably pretty similar to your undergraduate type of schedule. 2 hours of Biochem, an hour of Anatomy lecture followed by lab and maybe a class on Medical History to spice things up.

The teaching format is primarily lecture with some limited small group work. Check out the class schedule here:

http://cim.usuhs.mil/oea/ms1.html

good luck at your interview.

 

[buffdoc]

Excellent. Thanks a lot, paradude.