Can you stand another advice thread?

[eventualeventer]

OK, now that it's spring semester and I have less than 9 months (but who's counting, anyway) left to get myself together I'm starting to panic. (Heh, 9 months, pretty lame, right?)

If you can stand another advice thread, I'd love to get some input on where to apply. My cumulative GPA and some of my prereqs suck because I screwed around some before really "getting" the college thing, learning how to study, and realizing that I really wanted to go to vet school. Here are my stats:
MD resident
cum GPA = 3.25 -- will be 3.33 assuming I get a 4.0 this semester (I will, even if I don't sleep or see my friends at all)
last 45 h GPA = 3.72 assuming I get a 4.0 this semester

A sampling of my prereqs, a lot of which were taken before I got my act together:
Calculus 2 - C- (ouch! I'm planning to retake that this summer)
Gen Chem 2 - C (AP credit for Gen Chem 1)
Orgo 1 - B
Orgo 2 - C
Biochem - B
Physics 1 - B+
Physics 2 - A
Gen. Bio - A x 1 semester
Genetics - A
Animal Science - A

I am taking upper level cell bio w/lab, evolution, anthro, and mamm. physiology this semester.

I have not taken the GRE yet but I am counting on it to be one of my strong points, since I seem to do well on standardized tests. I got a 1460 on the SAT, and I've read that your GRE scores are often comparable to your SAT scores. (Is this true?)

Vet Experience:
~3000 hours (I don't have the excel file with the numbers on this computer) as a vet asst/"tech" at a medium sized equine practice (mixed ambulatory/inpt)
~ 250 hours and counting as a "nurse" at an academic equine referral hospital
~ 25 h small animal shadowing experience -- I plan to do more over spring break and during the summer
~ 150 h mucking stalls, weighing feed, and collecting poop samples for an equine nutrition study

Animal Experience:
- I've been riding horses since I was 10, including horse sitting, teaching some beginner lessons (including horse care), and many hours of labor for equine care and comfort.
- I spent about a year volunteering at weekly training sessions for a local group that trains therapy and assistance dogs.

I am currently working 10-15h/week in a lab doing research on sexual selection and meiotic drive in stalk-eyed flies, and I have my own project that I will be working on this spring.

I know that one's plans often change, but I would like to do equine and plan to do an internship, residency, and possibly PhD -- possible future in academia? I don't know what it is, but I love large animal medicine (I'm not averse to cows, I just don't know much about them!).

Now that I've typed out my pathetic stats, here are some of my thoughts and questions:

I will thank my lucky stars if I get in anywhere, and I know that all vet schools turn out top notch vets, but when trying to narrow down my list of schools I've been thinking about two factors:
1. Likelihood of out of state student with an unremarkable to mediocre GPA getting in.
2. Accessibility and size of equine programs/caseloads -- I've gotten some impressions from here and horse-specific discussion boards.

Outside of VMRCVM (how much equine is there at the main campus?), I've been considering the following:
* Michigan -- heard wonderful things about their equine program, seem relatively accepting of OOS students
* Minnesota -- again, heard wonderful things about equine program
* Kansas
* CSU or UC Davis -- ha, in my dreams. If I'm feeling rich, I'll chuck some money at them so I can say I tried. Maybe they'll go cross-eyed reading my transcript and let me in anyway.

UPenn's website no longer has a breakdown of how they weight GPA, etc. My only concern about UPenn is how accessible New Bolton Center is for on-call rotations or colic/foal team in the first two years. Any thoughts?

Any thoughts on all of this mess? Any other schools I should apply to? I've been leaning towards staying on the East Coast or Upper Midwest.

BTW, even though I'll have all of my graduation requirements next fall, I'm planning to stay in college through next spring (yay for tuition remission for being a faculty brat) to improve my GPA in case I don't get in this time around.

Thanks for reading this far. Sorry it's so long. Good luck/congratulations to all of you who applied this year!

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[tpad40]

You sound quite a bit like me!

I am sleepy, so I may re-address this later, but I have afew questions:

1- How competitive is your undergrad?
2- Are you graduating this year and then taking a year off and applying for class of 2014 or will you be graduating next year?

Overall, you look pretty good (well mostly because your horse is handsome) but I will have more to say soon

 

[Lckynmbrslefman]

Hi there!

I'll do my best to give some advice First off, you definitely have a lot of good experience which is going to help you out if you can get by the initial overlook of the applicant pool (a lot of schools weed out based on GPA before even looking at the application...sad but true ). I know that Michigan in particular does this...they calculate a "scholastic indicator" score and send out supplemental forms to those individuals who are above their minimum score. I don't think you should count them out though just because of that...I have no idea what that minimum score is!

But anyway...bottom line...I think the experience is going to boost up your application a LOT. The 3000 hours as a tech in an equine clinic and the fact that you are interested in LA is definitely a plus.

Gradewise, the GPA isn't going to count you out of everywhere but I don't know if I'd apply to Davis or CSU. Tufts or Iowa may be safer choices just because they generally have smaller applicant pools and accept more OOSers. Tufts has a nice equine/sports medicine program. Iowa also just built a brand spankin' new giant LA center. I'd also really recommend Western if you think you could thrive with the problem based learning style and living on the west coast (think palm trees...sandy beaches). They aren't going to count you out automatically because of your GPA and they will really value your experience and application as a whole. There's a giant, time consuming supplemental form, but that shows you just how much they want to get to know you!

About the prereqs...
I don't think the chemistry grades are going to hurt you that much...I had a B/C+ in gen chem and a B/C+ in orgo and I was accepted without anyone asking about them. Definitely ace those biology classes though and maybe take some extra credits in easy animal science or bio classes to bring up your cumulative GPA. If you can do really well on the GRE (as well as you did on the SAT) then I think that will also really help your scholastic indicator. I do think that the GRE scores are comparable to SAT, but the verbal section is a lot harder (IMO).

So yes...that's my long winded answer. Let me know if you have any other questions...hope that helps!

 

[rachroo]

Your upward trend for GPA (esp. with lots of upper level science classes) can help overshadow a bad past.

As far as advice goes, I'd do everything I could to get that 4.0 for this semester (or as close to it as possible). Maybe you could try and get some other types of veterinary experience (specialty, small animal, exotic, etc)? And...really look at your strengths/weaknesses, the acceptance trends, and IS/OOS numbers when applying to individual schools. Oh and rock the GRE...I'd suggest to studying for it at least a few months in advance.

Good luck!!

 

[eventualeventer]

Tpad, unfortunately, my horse of my dreams (not really mine, but a friend let me pretend he was) shattered his RF pastern a year and a half ago and had to be euthanized. I haven't gotten around to changing my picture because I don't have any good pictures of the new guy (who is also awesome in his own way, but not as scarily smart as William was).

I go to Univ of MD -- a good state school with a strong biology program, but definitely not a super-competitive private school.

Sorry to be confusing. I'm applying this cycle (2014) and graduating next spring (2010). I decided to drop all of my classes spring 2007 because of health issues, then took a year off to make sure the issues were resolved and to sort of get myself back on track and focusing on my goal. I spent that year working full+ time.

I don't know why I didn't think about Tufts!

Lcky, I've read about the SIS. It sure would be nice if they would post the SIS numbers that have been successful in years past! It seems weird that it's so shrouded in mystery.

I've already started studying for the verbal GRE, since I'm sure my vocabulary has not kept up with the change from SAT to GRE. The kind of vocabulary I've expanded working with horses is not the kind they want to hear!

Yes, I'll try to get more small animal experience. What little I have is at a large combined emergency and primary care hospital. Thanks for reminding me that I need to email the SA vet I shadowed this winter.

 

[tpad40]

Ok - slow me reread and saw that you are graduating next spring.

First: There is nothing on your application that screams deal breaker. The C in orgo may raise some eyebrows (evil orgo). If you had time, retaking that could strengthen your app. Your equine experience is fantastic, and will definitely set you apart. However, definitely work on rounding it out a little if you can. Like you, I had tonnns of equine experience and then got a PT job working for a small animal emergency clinic and that def. helped (plus it was/is lots of fun! even though I am still equine all the way).

Aside from gaining the SA experience, I think the most important thing to do is keep those grades up! Easier said than done, but you seem to be determined and clearly capable! Also, be sure to get some killer LORs and do very well on the GRE.

Like I said before, we are very similar (my SAT score is even the same as yours, my equine work experience ihours is same and same type clinic, we have same residency - heck, I am an event rider as well)! My GPA is a hair higher, but you have a year ahead to rock that way up! I am definitely equine oriented (did I say that enough) and here was my final list (green = in, yellow = alternate, red = they don;t know what they're missing):

Tufts
Penn
VMRCVM (IS)
Ohio
CSU
UC Davis
Wisconsin

Had I met pre-reqs I would have loved to apply to Minnesota, Florida, NCSU, and Cornell. Great schools, great equine programs! I would highly rec. adding Penn, Ohio, and possibly Tufts (I'm bitter). Ohio especially puts a lot of emphasis on the interview and they have one of the best equine programs in the country.

My ptich for Penn - yes New Bolton is far, I was very concerned about this as well. However after visiting, it is SO worth it. it was very impressive and all the current students I hgave spoken to seem to agree that yes it is a trade-off, but the amount of experience you will have upon graduation is totally worth it!

So, that might be it, whew! Seriously feel free to PM me anytime if you have any other questions, there is so much I wish I had known beforehand!

 

[tpad40]

Jus to add - def study the GRE verbal...it was my downfall. I had a 300 point difference from my quantitative to my verbal GRE! Yikes!

 

[eventualeventer]

Scary! Do you have one calico cat and one tortoiseshell cat? If so, there might be a rip in space-time that has produced two clones. Are you the evil twin, or am I?

I'll post more tomorrow, but my head is about to hit the keyboard. Thanks so much!

 

[eventualeventer]

Tpad, did you get a feel for the atmosphere at Penn? I saw that someone in the pros/cons thread said that NCSU seemed clique-ish and competitive, and I was wondering about Penn, which has a bit of a reputation among the vets I've talked to for being a competitive place.

Going back to cell bio reading, ugh. Not my favorite subject.

 

[tpad40]

Tpad, did you get a feel for the atmosphere at Penn? I saw that someone in the pros/cons thread said that NCSU seemed clique-ish and competitive, and I was wondering about Penn, which has a bit of a reputation among the vets I've talked to for being a competitive place.

The students I met were great. The students basically said yes, those types exist here, but in very small numbers and it is not at all the majority! Plus, overall, the other interviewees I met were great and I would love to have them as classmates (and might!!!!!).

I think it is inevitable that there will be the psycho competitive cut-throat types at all schools. After all, it is a pretty crazy competitive process to get in so the effects of it might just not wear off for some!

 

[eventualeventer]

OK, thanks for the reassurance.
I hope not, but for all I know, by the time I get into vet school, I'll have turned into a paranoid lunatic, too!

 

[Skillet9886]

I don't think your GPA will be a deal-breaker, either, especially if you have an upward trend. Well, not at all schools, anyway.

Random advice, but if you are good at standardized tests, think about taking the GRE twice, once without studying, and once after studying. It might sound crazy, but we have similar SAT scores, and I did that and scored higher on all 3 sections without studying. I tend to overthink things and get more nervous when I've studied, so I took the first one knowing I would be taking it again. I scored slightly lower than on the SATs, but still well above average for the schools I applied to. I have heard that the general trend is scoring 200 points lower on the GRE than you did on the SAT. I can't remember exactly where I heard it from, but I'm glad it didn't apply to me!

I know you listed Kansas up there, and I would definitely encourage you to pursue that. I first looked into Kansas after talking to someone at the APVMA symposium, and he said that their class is 60% OOS. That was a few years ago, and I think it's a bit lower now, but not by much. They accept a whole lot of OOS people. That's mainly why I applied there, and it worked out. They also have a really nice equine facility, and, although I'm not really interested in equine, I was still impressed. If you've got your heart set on equine, though, and really don't want to do everything else, you should know that Kansas doesn't do tracking, so you'll need to do everything else (SA, exotics, etc) and can't "specialize" like at some other schools. Just something to consider. I would definitely still apply, though.