Cause for Large Amount of Attrition in Psych Residency?

[ace_inhibitor111]

Looking through the ACGME guidebook for the past few years, psychiatry surprisingly is on the top of the list for total number of residents leaving, almost 2x as much as Gen surg. For example, in 2019, 407/~1500 residents left, with nearly 300 transferring out when they are PGY3. What is happening in PGY3 of psych residency that is causing such a large amount of residents to abandon ship?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[oldiebutgoodie1211]

That seems surprising if you interpreted the data correctly

 

[Taddy Mason]

What is happening in PGY3 of psych residency that is causing such a large amount of residents to abandon ship?

Ummm, people fast tracking...

 

[heartonic]

Yeah its from people fast tracking into child psych after pgy-3. Could you share the link where you found this?

 

[loannightmares]

I’m pretty sure fast-tracking is unique to psychiatry, so they probably shouldn’t have included those individuals in the count if the goal is to look at actual attrition (leaving the specialty). Those individuals are continuing in psychiatry.

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

Yeah its from people fast tracking into child psych after pgy-3. Could you share the link where you found this?

ACGME Data Resource Book

www.acgme.org

 

[clozareal]

ACGME Data Resource Book

www.acgme.org

Just looked through that data. About 270 out of the ~340 residents transferred during their 3rd year. This is most likely due to fast tracking into child and adolescent psychiatry.

 

[docksan]

That can be attributed to fast-tracking, as everyone else has said.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[On Walden Pond]

Wish they could exclude the fast-trackers

Psych has lots of people transferring into it

 

[kaysisiel]

There are also quite a few transfers that happen to fill the voids left by fast trackers.

 

[asdf123g]

There are also quite a few transfers that happen to fill the voids left by fast trackers.

does this happen often? another thread I recall, a PD said they're hesitant to take anyone after PGY1 since they're unsure the quality of their training, especially the later in residency it is.

 

[liquidshadow22]

does this happen often? another thread I recall, a PD said they're hesitant to take anyone after PGY1 since they're unsure the quality of their training, especially the later in residency it is.

Lol. NPs by the thousands practicing independently and PDs are worrying about advanced standing psych resident quality at the pgy 3 and 4 levels

 

[kaysisiel]

does this happen often? another thread I recall, a PD said they're hesitant to take anyone after PGY1 since they're unsure the quality of their training, especially the later in residency it is.

It happens often enough to programs with small class sizes/call in PGY4/other responsibilities in PGY4. These programs tend to be community programs located in highly desirable areas like SF, NYC, LA, etc.

 

[WuFlu]

Lol. NPs by the thousands practicing independently and PDs are worrying about advanced standing psych resident quality at the pgy 3 and 4 levels

PDs always want to make the low wage training as long as possible. That's why most PhD fields are saturated with trainees and endless post docing. Someone needs to be the free labor for the PDs.

Meanwhile,

Decker alumnae open area’s first nurse practitioner-owned dermatology practice - Binghamton News

In July 2019, Yvonne Chesna ’92, MS ’96; Beth Stewart, MS ’14; and Michelle Winsor, MS ’12, opened Broome Nurse Practitioners Skincare.

www.binghamton.edu

 

[J ROD]

From what I experienced, more folks are trying to transfer in than get out. What you see is switching over to child as everybody has mentioned. Take that year out and then you might get a better picture. My programs took a 3rd year and let's say they were not ideal. It's a hard deal. Because some programs that are smaller could really use the help of a replacement 4th year but then you got a year to get that person ready if they are not up to the par before you put your program's seal of approval on them and they represent your program for life.

 

[nebuchadnezzarII]

Any explanation for the dismissal rate? I’m asking because I’m a paranoid intern lol.

 

[Taddy Mason]

Any explanation for the dismissal rate? I’m asking because I’m a paranoid intern lol.

I’m not sure what even remotely meaningful information you can attempt to extract from that data regarding dismissal rates, but as mentioned above the higher appearing number of individuals not completing residency for psych is largely influenced by people fast tracking. Looking just at those dismissed ~5% of psych residents didn’t complete residency due to being dismissed compared to ~12.5% across all specialties.

 

[WisNeuro]

PDs always want to make the low wage training as long as possible. That's why most PhD fields are saturated with trainees and endless post docing. Someone needs to be the free labor for the PDs.

Meanwhile,

Decker alumnae open area’s first nurse practitioner-owned dermatology practice - Binghamton News

In July 2019, Yvonne Chesna ’92, MS ’96; Beth Stewart, MS ’14; and Michelle Winsor, MS ’12, opened Broome Nurse Practitioners Skincare.

www.binghamton.edu

Probably not most. Many of our departments, and other grad departments, lose money on grad students. Between a stipend, full tuition remission, insurance, etc, grad student's productivity is probably a fraction of what they cost. Same goes for our interns. Their clinical productivity doesn't even come close to helping us break even on them.