Chance me for T20s

[Topiary56]

I just want to preface this by saying I genuinely have no desire to get into a T20 school, but I'm curious what people think. My top choice is Stanford but honestly my reason is so unimaginably stupid I'm not even gonna mention it. I really don't care though and I would be very content going to my state school (NJ) or even going to a DO program tbh and most likely I want to do primary care in the future. I'm looking at the more holistic schools cuz my MCAT score isn't the best, but I'm 100% NOT retaking because I feel like I'll learn a lot more from a healthcare provider perspective doing more clinical/research stuff rather than squeezing 4 more points out on CARS.

Stats: 512 MCAT, 3.90 cGPA, 3.83 sGPA. Major in biomathematics ( joint degree I like math) with a minor in Japanese.

Idk if this is a red flag or if it matters, but I'm also finishing in 2.5ish years cuz a lot of AP credits (bio, chem, calc, english). Did 2 years, gap semester junior year fall, junior year spring full time (now), and one more class in the fall which basically gives me a gap year so I'll throw projected hours.

Research:

• 100 hours freshman year which resulted in the pub but it was kinda BS (mid author in a review with 30 something co-authors) but ofc I'm not gonna frame it that way on an app. Seems suspicious though in all honesty.
• 1500 hours neuroendocrinology research (big word). No pubs, but maybe could be a poster/undergrad thesis or something but idk the process for that.

Clinical:

• 800 hours as an ophthalmology tech/scribe.
• 900 hours as a CCT. Assisted nurses and learn skills like phlebotomy and doing EKGs and also did patient care such as feeding, cleaning, and taking **** from nurses who act like anything in a tech's scope of practice is not their responsibility.
• Certified phlebotomy tech and EMT. Projected either a surgical technician or certified ophthalmology assistant (one or the other) in the next year depending on what opportunities I come across. Idk if certs matter from a med-school perspective but I like having diversity in my healthcare experiences and they kinda back it up.
• 50 hours shadowing at an ophthalmology clinic (same one I worked at so idk how much it counts). I had trouble getting more shadowing cuz Covid was just letting up and eventually I started getting jobs and preferred the more hands on experience.

Clinical volunteering:

• 1500 hours as a volunteer EMT (including projected hours next year) since freshman year summer.
• Planning on doing 2-3 short term medical missions trips in the next year but I gotta find money for that.

Nonclinical volunteering (kinda lacking but I don't have much desire or time to improve it and would rather do clinical stuff like more EMT shifts):

• 100 hours lead a nonprofit community tennis camp over the summer.
• 50 hours as part of community team in a Christian fellowship (did some homeless outreach stuff at food banks and what not. Thinking about some fundraising events, but those are still getting baked atm).

Extracurriculars (do I need hours for these cuz idk how to break it down?):

• Cofounder/treasurer of a calisthenics club for 1 year. Member for another 2 semesters (couldn't continue leadership cuz gap semester split it up)
• Powerlifting club 4 semesters. Competed in 2 competitions and got third in one of them, but wasn't amazing.
• Played tennis as a kid through high school and continued private coaching into my freshman year summer so I'll talk about it for well-roundedness. Between calisthenics/powerlifting/tennis I'll probably base some part of my statement on fitness potentially.
• 4 semesters various christian fellowship stuff. Small group (Bible Study) leader for 3 semesters, part of community team (planned events for the fellowship as well as homeless outreach events maybe fundraisers which are cooking atm).
• Teaching an accredited first year interest group seminar for freshman interested in health and medicine next fall and mentoring them.
• 2 semesters Asian language and culture ambassador (did tabling events to advertise the east asian language and culture department and helped welcome exchange students from Japan).

Rec Letters: 1 from an ophthalmologist, one from my PI (md/phd head of a department at my med school he's a cool guy), two from Japanese professors (one is head of east asian language and culture department), one from a math professor. Somehow none of those are from natural science professors but ig I'm in a state school and it's kinda hard getting close to a professor teaching 500 orgo students. Idk how much rec letters matter but I hope it's good enough.

Projected hours: Idk how to break it down hourly, but it'll be like 3000-3500ish hours spread over these. Imma be grinding tho since I really enjoy what I'm doing

• Gonna continue my research position and hopefully get a mid-author pub out of it but it. I don't have my own project and don't have much desire to have my own, but I'm heavily involved in one so it gives me a lot more to talk about.
• Really itching to get a surgical tech certification and get some OR experience but I'd say maybe 30% chance it happens. Otherwise, I'm gonna try to get more ophthalmology experience part time and continue my CCT job which is per-diem on weekends.
• Gonna keep riding on my EMT squad once a week.

Anyways, I'm curious about my chances for top 20s. I don't have MSAR yet so I can't check the MCAT percentiles, but I'm not sure if the more holistic schools would accept my MCAT score or if they'd still auto-reject based on it. I appreciate any insight!

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[Mr.Smile12]

Moderator: feel free to move to WAMC

I'm not sure what you're fishing for. If your point is that you're not interested in our opinion that you could or could not get into a brand school, what do you want to know? Is it concern that you are "too young" only having spent 2.5 years in college? Do you want to be told you should shoot higher than have aspirations for primary care? Are you being pressured by family or peers to become a physician?

Is your goal to attend a grad/professional school at a brand school? Clearly, by not having talked with your prehealth advisor or getting a peek at the MSAR (or maybe even the school websites), you aren't sure that being a doctor is what you want to do. Are you performing as a premed or are you following a true passion to serve others? I don't know if I have seen enough to say I see your passion from the description.

So to make it easy:
1) Yes, you should retake the MCAT and go for higher if getting into a brand school is your mission.
But if you want to be a primary care physician, you don't need to retake the MCAT.

2) You haven't networked with anyone at the top-20 schools, since I don't see any evidence of going to a summer research or academic enrichment program hosted by those schools. Unless you have lived on that campus, all you see is through rose-colored glasses put out by the university marketing office. Have you attended recruitment events run by the schools you want to attend? Your insecurity suggests that you have not.

3) I'm sure having interest in or identifying as Asian is also a concern to needing to be at a T20 school. Trust us that you aren't going to be any happier. Going to an Ivy+ does not make getting to know your lecture professors any easier; in fact, it's much harder. MUCH harder.

4) If you took a gap year in Japan, it would make you "interesting" to many students and academics. It does depend on what you do, but plenty of gap-year applicants take advantage of an overseas opportunity. It would be nice if you could use your interest in Japanese culture.

 

[Goro]

There are some 30 schools in the T20s. Are you more interested in the prestige, or do you want to be a doctor? Your salary as an attending in, say, surgery if you go to Drexel will be the says as if you go to Harvard.

Here are the schools which I think that you're competitive for. And get in more nonclinical volunteering. Your app is great for medical exposure, but otherwise, research heavy.

Albany
Creighton
Dartmouth
Drexel
Emory
EVMS
Georgetown
GWU
Hackensack Meridian
Jefferson
Loyola
MCW
NEOMED
Netter
Nova MD
NYMC
NYU-LI
Oakland-B
Ohio State
Rochester
Rosy Franklin
Rush
St. Louis
TCU
Temple
Tufts
Tulane
U CO
U VM
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
VCU
Wake Forest
Wayne State
Western MI
WVU
Your state school(s)
Any DO program. Include UNECOM if you’re from the NE, OSUCOM if you’re from the Plains states and PacNW if you’re from that region. I can't recommend LMU, SOMA, RVU, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. Avoid those new schools that haven't graduated a class yet, if at all possible.

 

[Topiary56]

Moderator: feel free to move to WAMC

I'm not sure what you're fishing for. If your point is that you're not interested in our opinion that you could or could not get into a brand school, what do you want to know? Is it concern that you are "too young" only having spent 2.5 years in college? Do you want to be told you should shoot higher than have aspirations for primary care? Are you being pressured by family or peers to become a physician?

Is your goal to attend a grad/professional school at a brand school? Clearly, by not having talked with your prehealth advisor or getting a peek at the MSAR (or maybe even the school websites), you aren't sure that being a doctor is what you want to do. Are you performing as a premed or are you following a true passion to serve others? I don't know if I have seen enough to say I see your passion from the description.

So to make it easy:
1) Yes, you should retake the MCAT and go for higher if getting into a brand school is your mission.
But if you want to be a primary care physician, you don't need to retake the MCAT.

2) You haven't networked with anyone at the top-20 schools, since I don't see any evidence of going to a summer research or academic enrichment program hosted by those schools. Unless you have lived on that campus, all you see is through rose-colored glasses put out by the university marketing office. Have you attended recruitment events run by the schools you want to attend? Your insecurity suggests that you have not.

3) I'm sure having interest in or identifying as Asian is also a concern to needing to be at a T20 school. Trust us that you aren't going to be any happier. Going to an Ivy+ does not make getting to know your lecture professors any easier; in fact, it's much harder. MUCH harder.

4) If you took a gap year in Japan, it would make you "interesting" to many students and academics. It does depend on what you do, but plenty of gap-year applicants take advantage of an overseas opportunity. It would be nice if you could use your interest in Japanese culture.

I appreciste the detailed response, its good to get my app torn apart. I definitely learned a lot reading it.

Ig the goal is that I'm starting to think about my school list but I'm debating on stretch schools so I'm wondering what my shots are for any top schools. I'll address the stuff in order of what you said.

I'm actually the opposite, my family was all against me becoming a doctor because the path is too long. I came in majoring in CS/Math on a finance track and they wanted me to do that, but I hated the culture and wanted to do something where I could serve people. I got involved in Healthcare volunteering on the first aid squad and that's what got me exploring more and after getting experience in clinics that's where I kinda got set on being a doctor versus another Healthcare role. Of course more of my reasons would be expressed in my personal statement and narrative, but I'm still kinda reflecting and putting it together. It definitely is out of desire to serve other people and I'm planning on going into full time medical mission work down the line, it's not for money or prestige or anything.

The concern with the 2.5 year thing isn't that I'm worried about being too young of a student. If they look into my transcript, I don't think anybody would doubt my abilities to handle course load more than any other premed. I'm just kinda curious what adcoms would think "this guy is able to handle a tough course load" versus "it's suspicious this guy finished so quick". I don't want to take more tisemesters in school though because of cost.

The premed advising at my school is notoriously bad and it's stocked with liberal arts phds who have no idea about medicine. Last time I went they told me not to do research because med schools don't look at it anymore. It wasn't a "doing clinical work first will be more beneficial" it was a straight "I advise not to do it" so I don't trust anything they say.

To give clarifications on the points you made:

1) I'm mostly considering primary care because I feel like it is the area where I could serve the most people in need especially if it's in a more rural or under served area. I don't like urban centers. Only competitive specialty I'm looking at is ophtho. I wouldn't be interested in subspecializing that much just because it doesn't exactly fit into what I'm interested in pursuing.

2) Now that you mention it, that's a pretty big issue. I genuinely just don't "want it" enough to go through all those steps and I'd be just as happy to be in any MD program.

3) All my close high school friends go to ivy leagues and really prestigious schools and I was really set on going to my state school. After hearing their stories, I have no regrets and and honestly the stories they tell of ivy culture pisses me off. Very happy where I am in a state school.

4) I was considering the Jet program where you go overseas and teach English in Japan for a year or two, but I decided against it because I feel like I'm more passionate about Healthcare and would rather spend my time in a clinic. I'll probably make a trip to Japan for fun and I'll continue learning Japanese but I don't really have an interest in putting anything more on my resume.

Hope that cleared some stuff up, but I appreciate the introspection.

 

[chilly_md]

Moved to WAMC

 

[Topiary56]

There are some 30 schools in the T20s. Are you more interested in the prestige, or do you want to be a doctor? Your salary as an attending in, say, surgery if you go to Drexel will be the says as if you go to Harvard.

Here are the schools which I think that you're competitive for. And get in more nonclinical volunteering. Your app is great for medical exposure, but otherwise, research heavy.

Albany
Creighton
Dartmouth
Drexel
Emory
EVMS
Georgetown
GWU
Hackensack Meridian
Jefferson
Loyola
MCW
NEOMED
Netter
Nova MD
NYMC
NYU-LI
Oakland-B
Ohio State
Rochester
Rosy Franklin
Rush
St. Louis
TCU
Temple
Tufts
Tulane
U CO
U VM
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
VCU
Wake Forest
Wayne State
Western MI
WVU
Your state school(s)
Any DO program. Include UNECOM if you’re from the NE, OSUCOM if you’re from the Plains states and PacNW if you’re from that region. I can't recommend LMU, SOMA, RVU, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. Avoid those new schools that haven't graduated a class yet, if at all possible.

List seems pretty realistic and I'm an NJ resident so I'll send in to the NJ schools. Maybe I'll get like 15-20 off that list and pick like 5-10 reaches oI'm really interested in and maybe send in a few DOs to be extra safe. Also, when you say research heavy what exactly do you mean? Could it be a detriment to have a lot of research experience if I'm looking for more service oriented schools or something or like it would benefit me to be a bit more well rounded?

I'd say my only motivation to get into higher ranked schools is about the options that it gives. I don't really care about the prestige from ranking, but I feel like the higher ranked schools would have more opportunities and I would rather be at a top research school and realize I'm not interested in research rather than be at a lower ranked DO school struggling to find research opportunities if that makes any sense.

Definitely not money motivated at all. I've thought of switching to engineering a few times cuz of money, but I don't really see myself doing anything not related to patient care so never thought too much about it.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I'd say my only motivation to get into higher ranked schools is about the options that it gives. I don't really care about the prestige from ranking, but I feel like the higher ranked schools would have more opportunities and I would rather be at a top research school and realize I'm not interested in research rather than be at a lower ranked DO school struggling to find research opportunities if that makes any sense.

You should explain what you mean. The main reasons why a school is higher ranked in USNWR is related to endowment and research funding. It is highly flawed and doesn't reward "opportunities" that are not related to research or facilities development.

 

[Goro]

List seems pretty realistic and I'm an NJ resident so I'll send in to the NJ schools. Maybe I'll get like 15-20 off that list and pick like 5-10 reaches oI'm really interested in and maybe send in a few DOs to be extra safe. Also, when you say research heavy what exactly do you mean? Could it be a detriment to have a lot of research experience if I'm looking for more service oriented schools or something or like it would benefit me to be a bit more well rounded?

I'd say my only motivation to get into higher ranked schools is about the options that it gives. I don't really care about the prestige from ranking, but I feel like the higher ranked schools would have more opportunities and I would rather be at a top research school and realize I'm not interested in research rather than be at a lower ranked DO school struggling to find research opportunities if that makes any sense.

Definitely not money motivated at all. I've thought of switching to engineering a few times cuz of money, but I don't really see myself doing anything not related to patient care so never thought too much about it.

The thing about applying to reaches is that they don't need the donation money. Take your mom out for Mother's Day instead.

The higher up the pole you want to climb, the more slippery it gets, and so schools in Harvard/Stanford class can afford to ignore you.

Your app is very heavy on research and lite on service to others. Medicine is a service profession, and many of the schools that you're competitive for are service loving.

 

[Topiary56]

You should explain what you mean. The main reasons why a school is higher ranked in USNWR is related to endowment and research funding. It is highly flawed and doesn't reward "opportunities" that are not related to research or facilities development.

Ig what I mean is that I wouldn't want to be constrained by my school at all and would want to option to either be really ambitious in research or chill more with it. I don't like the idea of being in a smaller rural MD program or DO program and looking for a specialty specific research and finding it doesn't exist and I need to dig at other schools to find it. Ofc you couldn't compare a DO school with Harvard, but if I was in my state school (RWJ/NJMS) versus a top research university how much of a different in research opportunities would there be? The opportunities would definitely be there at RWJ, but it's hard to quantify if there is much of a difference between here and a top school.

 

[Topiary56]

The thing about applying to reaches is that they don't need the donation money. Take your mom out for Mother's Day instead.

The higher up the pole you want to climb, the more slippery it gets, and so schools in Harvard/Stanford class can afford to ignore you.

Your app is very heavy on research and lite on service to others. Medicine is a service profession, and many of the schools that you're competitive for are service loving.

Yea I'm definitely not looking to give more money to these schools lol I should take my mom out sometime. Also, a good amount of this response is kinda just me throwing out ideas/journalling for my own essay purposes in a few months lol.

I honestly find it very interesting that people find my app research heavy because I feel like it is the part I am the least passionate about. I enjoy research and I like my lab, but it doesn't really give me any fulfillment like patient care does. Lowkey part of the reason I'm pouring a lot in my research is because I hope later on when residency apps come along I could say I did a lot of research in undergrad and despite having a wonderful supportive lab, I found my passion was more with seeing patients but idk if that's how things work.

I guess the only substantive volunteering I'm planning on doing is medical mission work, but I'm honestly running into the problem where a lot of programs catered towards undergrads are giving voluntourism vibes. For example, one program was a month long mission trip in Africa visiting four hospitals but I'm sorry jumping around that much isn't gonna do anything useful I would rather spend the month in one hospital and actually get my hands dirty. I'm networking and stuff to try and make something work, but I'll see where it leads me.

A lot of the "service" I do is smaller things and not exactly resume worthy, but I'm hoping I could convey it in essays and interviews. For example small things like dragging a friend to the gym and teaching him how to work out and being inspired to start a club to promote fitness on campus. Also if I just pick up more hospital or EMT shifts and bust ass to provide really good patient care I feel like I have more impact and I love when patients perk up by the end of my shift with them. Rather than kinda helping 100 people in a more longitudinal way I would prefer more vertical service where I could really pour into a few people if that makes sense.

I also have a particular ick for people who do charity for the sole purpose of an application. There are students who are genuinely passionate, but I see way too many of these students starting non-profits and letting them die as soon as their applications are done and it really annoys me.

That was a tangent, but ig the point I'm making is that I really like serving people and I have stories and stuff to back it up and I doubt anyone who has a conversation with me would disagree, but it's a matter of can I convey it to an adcom and not sound generic or sound like I'm bull****ting them if that makes sense.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I actually don't think your app is research heavy given your description.

The problem is you asked for chances to a higher ranked school (T20) which wants more research investment than you describe. If you don't get more, that's fine but do you want to go to a place that wants a scholarly thesis? You say Stanford is your top choice. What do you think is their culture? (This is where your "stupid answer" may be "stupid."

That's why I suggested a gap in Japan or growth year US experiences doing clinical and community service off campus. Show us you make a community difference that a T20 desires.

 

[Topiary56]

I actually don't think your app is research heavy given your description.

The problem is you asked for chances to a higher ranked school (T20) which wants more research investment than you describe. If you don't get more, that's fine but do you want to go to a place that wants a scholarly thesis? You say Stanford is your top choice. What do you think is their culture? (This is where your "stupid answer" may be "stupid."

That's why I suggested a gap in Japan or growth year US experiences doing clinical and community service off campus. Show us you make a community difference that a T20 desires.

Ngl, I feel like from what I'm hearing on this thread I'm honestly not the right person for top ranked schools and I don't think a top ranked school would have the culture and environment that I would do the best in as well. Yes, if a genie appeared and I magically got into Harvard and RWJ, I would obviously pick Harvard, but I don't think I would be as happy or have as good of an experience.

I'll probably just spend the remainder of my undergrad doing what genuinely interests me the most which will still look good on an application. I don't really want to think about padding my resume for application purposes and I'll construct a much safer application list.

I'll still stick around in my lab just because I feel obligated to give back since they took me on and trained me for 6 months, but I'll try to cut back a bit to manage stress so I can volunteer and serve more because I do find it fulfilling to help others.

I appreciate the insight and suggestions, I definitely learned a lot about myself as a med school applicant and it gives me a better course and plan for my gap next year.

BTW, when I say my reason is dumb, the reason why Stanford is my top choice is because one of my close high school friends goes to Harvard and he literally got into every ivy, but got rejected from Stanford and I just want to get accepted to one up him. Nothing toxic going on and we are still really close and go to church together when we're back for breaks, but my friends like to motivate and push each other through copious amounts of talking smack and I've had to really grind to back up my trash talk the last three years so I'm looking to reverse the roles. So yes, the reason is honestly dumber than wanting to go because I think the prestige will make me happy or to go so my mom can win the Asian parent "my kid is better than yours" dick measuring contest. I don't think I could think of a more stupid reason than what I have and maybe that's a sign I shouldn't bother lol.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Comparison is the thief of joy.

What's better than being a student at Stanford? Being a resident or professor at Stanford. Actually the correct answer is "being happy." Seriously, if you went to Stanford as a PA student, would that suffice?

Back to point, for superficial reasons, your MCAT isn't near the median for matriculants at the brand schools. It didn't mean you can't be a great doctor. With some great work and networking, you could go to a residency at Boston or wherever. You could do research at Stanford. You could also do Peace Corps or a Rhodes to position yourself as brand-school worthy.

But I agree you need to be authentic and be yourself. Don't try to please adcoms, but be reasonable with what the application process demands.

 

[RunnerDad]

BTW, when I say my reason is dumb, the reason why Stanford is my top choice is because one of my close high school friends goes to Harvard and he literally got into every ivy, but got rejected from Stanford and I just want to get accepted to one up him. Nothing toxic going on and we are still really close and go to church together when we're back for breaks, but my friends like to motivate and push each other through copious amounts of talking smack and I've had to really grind to back up my trash talk the last three years so I'm looking to reverse the roles. So yes, the reason is honestly dumber than wanting to go because I think the prestige will make me happy or to go so my mom can win the Asian parent "my kid is better than yours" dick measuring contest. I don't think I could think of a more stupid reason than what I have and maybe that's a sign I shouldn't bother lol.

Not so much stupid, but immature. Research your fit and do the right thing for who you are -- not who you think you should be, deserve to be, or out of envy.

 

[candbgirl]

I just want to preface this by saying I genuinely have no desire to get into a T20 school, but I'm curious what people think. My top choice is Stanford but honestly my reason is so unimaginably stupid I'm not even gonna mention it. I really don't care though and I would be very content going to my state school (NJ) or even going to a DO program tbh and most likely I want to do primary care in the future. I'm looking at the more holistic schools cuz my MCAT score isn't the best, but I'm 100% NOT retaking because I feel like I'll learn a lot more from a healthcare provider perspective doing more clinical/research stuff rather than squeezing 4 more points out on CARS.

Stats: 512 MCAT, 3.90 cGPA, 3.83 sGPA. Major in biomathematics ( joint degree I like math) with a minor in Japanese.

Idk if this is a red flag or if it matters, but I'm also finishing in 2.5ish years cuz a lot of AP credits (bio, chem, calc, english). Did 2 years, gap semester junior year fall, junior year spring full time (now), and one more class in the fall which basically gives me a gap year so I'll throw projected hours.

Research:

• 100 hours freshman year which resulted in the pub but it was kinda BS (mid author in a review with 30 something co-authors) but ofc I'm not gonna frame it that way on an app. Seems suspicious though in all honesty.
• 1500 hours neuroendocrinology research (big word). No pubs, but maybe could be a poster/undergrad thesis or something but idk the process for that.

Clinical:

• 800 hours as an ophthalmology tech/scribe.
• 900 hours as a CCT. Assisted nurses and learn skills like phlebotomy and doing EKGs and also did patient care such as feeding, cleaning, and taking **** from nurses who act like anything in a tech's scope of practice is not their responsibility.
• Certified phlebotomy tech and EMT. Projected either a surgical technician or certified ophthalmology assistant (one or the other) in the next year depending on what opportunities I come across. Idk if certs matter from a med-school perspective but I like having diversity in my healthcare experiences and they kinda back it up.
• 50 hours shadowing at an ophthalmology clinic (same one I worked at so idk how much it counts). I had trouble getting more shadowing cuz Covid was just letting up and eventually I started getting jobs and preferred the more hands on experience.

Clinical volunteering:

• 1500 hours as a volunteer EMT (including projected hours next year) since freshman year summer.
• Planning on doing 2-3 short term medical missions trips in the next year but I gotta find money for that.

Nonclinical volunteering (kinda lacking but I don't have much desire or time to improve it and would rather do clinical stuff like more EMT shifts):

• 100 hours lead a nonprofit community tennis camp over the summer.
• 50 hours as part of community team in a Christian fellowship (did some homeless outreach stuff at food banks and what not. Thinking about some fundraising events, but those are still getting baked atm).

Extracurriculars (do I need hours for these cuz idk how to break it down?):

• Cofounder/treasurer of a calisthenics club for 1 year. Member for another 2 semesters (couldn't continue leadership cuz gap semester split it up)
• Powerlifting club 4 semesters. Competed in 2 competitions and got third in one of them, but wasn't amazing.
• Played tennis as a kid through high school and continued private coaching into my freshman year summer so I'll talk about it for well-roundedness. Between calisthenics/powerlifting/tennis I'll probably base some part of my statement on fitness potentially.
• 4 semesters various christian fellowship stuff. Small group (Bible Study) leader for 3 semesters, part of community team (planned events for the fellowship as well as homeless outreach events maybe fundraisers which are cooking atm).
• Teaching an accredited first year interest group seminar for freshman interested in health and medicine next fall and mentoring them.
• 2 semesters Asian language and culture ambassador (did tabling events to advertise the east asian language and culture department and helped welcome exchange students from Japan).

Rec Letters: 1 from an ophthalmologist, one from my PI (md/phd head of a department at my med school he's a cool guy), two from Japanese professors (one is head of east asian language and culture department), one from a math professor. Somehow none of those are from natural science professors but ig I'm in a state school and it's kinda hard getting close to a professor teaching 500 orgo students. Idk how much rec letters matter but I hope it's good enough.

Projected hours: Idk how to break it down hourly, but it'll be like 3000-3500ish hours spread over these. Imma be grinding tho since I really enjoy what I'm doing

• Gonna continue my research position and hopefully get a mid-author pub out of it but it. I don't have my own project and don't have much desire to have my own, but I'm heavily involved in one so it gives me a lot more to talk about.
• Really itching to get a surgical tech certification and get some OR experience but I'd say maybe 30% chance it happens. Otherwise, I'm gonna try to get more ophthalmology experience part time and continue my CCT job which is per-diem on weekends.
• Gonna keep riding on my EMT squad once a week.

Anyways, I'm curious about my chances for top 20s. I don't have MSAR yet so I can't check the MCAT percentiles, but I'm not sure if the more holistic schools would accept my MCAT score or if they'd still auto-reject based on it. I appreciate any insight!

FYI- Covid restrictions have pretty much been removed. So it’s time to get some shadowing out side of ophthalmology, especially in primary care.

You have no nonclinical volunteering, at least you have no nonclinical volunteering that schools are looking for. Get off campus, get out of your comfort zone and get your hands dirty. Learn to interact and serve people very unlike yourself. Medicine is a service profession and you have to show ADCOMS that you can interact with people at their very worst. And you statement

“Nonclinical volunteering (kinda lacking but I don't have much desire or time to improve it and would rather do clinical stuff like more EMT shifts)”

is very telling. It’s time to get off the EMT squad and find people in a different kind of extreme need. Sometimes we don’t have the choice, time or desire when we are working. Get used to it now.

 

[Topiary56]

FYI- Covid restrictions have pretty much been removed. So it’s time to get some shadowing out side of ophthalmology, especially in primary care.

You have no nonclinical volunteering, at least you have no nonclinical volunteering that schools are looking for. Get off campus, get out of your comfort zone and get your hands dirty. Learn to interact and serve people very unlike yourself. Medicine is a service profession and you have to show ADCOMS that you can interact with people at their very worst. And you statement

“Nonclinical volunteering (kinda lacking but I don't have much desire or time to improve it and would rather do clinical stuff like more EMT shifts)”

is very telling. It’s time to get off the EMT squad and find people in a different kind of extreme need. Sometimes we don’t have the choice, time or desire when we are working. Get used to it now.

I don't see how picking up more EMT shifts rather than pursuing nonclinical volunteering is telling of anything. It's not easy and it doesn't make me feel appreciated to get woken up multiple times a night for someone to RMA after having a seizure or for the second alcoholic or OD of the night to pass out and have someone dial 911 for them. Imo doing that stuff is a lot harder than something nonclinical and involves getting my hands a lot more dirty than if I was at a food-bank or something because I've done that and it's easier and I feel a lot better doing it but also I know I don't have the same impact. I apologize for taking that a bit personally, but the point is I don't see how me choosing to do more clinical volunteering rather than pursuing some nonclinical stuff is "very telling" of that I'm not willing to get my hands dirty helping people when they are in extreme need. A good bit of my CCT job literally includes changing diapers and trying to communicate with and care for AMS patients which is literally getting my hands dirty and helping people at their lowest point. Me taking time off as a volunteer EMT to volunteer at a food bank or something is not a lack of me being afraid to get my hands dirty or talk to people unlike myself, it's just that I feel I'm more useful doing clinical volunteering.

As far as admissions go though, you're right I should find some nonclinical volunteer work.

As for the other stuff, I definitely need to get some more shadowing experience. It's just that I feel it's more useful to get more hands on experience, but I do want to network and try to grab lunch with some more doctors and check out more clinics to learn more. I haven't had the time to do it during my gap semester since I was locked in to commitments 7 days a week and my course-load is currently hell, but I'll find time over the summer for sure.

I appreciate the advise!

 

[candbgirl]

I don't see how picking up more EMT shifts rather than pursuing nonclinical volunteering is telling of anything. It's not easy and it doesn't make me feel appreciated to get woken up multiple times a night for someone to RMA after having a seizure or for the second alcoholic or OD of the night to pass out and have someone dial 911 for them. Imo doing that stuff is a lot harder than something nonclinical and involves getting my hands a lot more dirty than if I was at a food-bank or something because I've done that and it's easier and I feel a lot better doing it but also I know I don't have the same impact. I apologize for taking that a bit personally, but the point is I don't see how me choosing to do more clinical volunteering rather than pursuing some nonclinical stuff is "very telling" of that I'm not willing to get my hands dirty helping people when they are in extreme need. A good bit of my CCT job literally includes changing diapers and trying to communicate with and care for AMS patients which is literally getting my hands dirty and helping people at their lowest point. Me taking time off as a volunteer EMT to volunteer at a food bank or something is not a lack of me being afraid to get my hands dirty or talk to people unlike myself, it's just that I feel I'm more useful doing clinical volunteering.

As far as admissions go though, you're right I should find some nonclinical volunteer work.

As for the other stuff, I definitely need to get some more shadowing experience. It's just that I feel it's more useful to get more hands on experience, but I do want to network and try to grab lunch with some more doctors and check out more clinics to learn more. I haven't had the time to do it during my gap semester since I was locked in to commitments 7 days a week and my course-load is currently hell, but I'll find time over the summer for sure.

I appreciate the advise!

The thing that was telling, at least to me, was your outright admission that you are lacking in nonclinical volunteering but have no desire or time to improve it.

You description of being woken up etc etc is going to happen when you are a resident and as an attending too. It happens everyday. Patients that you have worked with and counseled and tried to educate about life style changes and you might even think you made an impact, end up right back in your clinic or ER with the same symptoms. It is frustrating as can be but it will be part of your life . At least you’ll be used to the routine.

 

[Topiary56]

The thing that was telling, at least to me, was your outright admission that you are lacking in nonclinical volunteering but have no desire or time to improve it.

You description of being woken up etc etc is going to happen when you are a resident and as an attending too. It happens everyday. Patients that you have worked with and counseled and tried to educate about life style changes and you might even think you made an impact, end up right back in your clinic or ER with the same symptoms. It is frustrating as can be but it will be part of your life . At least you’ll be used to the routine.

Yea I kinda realized that on an emt shift. I had a drunk guy passed out in front of a Wawa and 12 hours later got another call for the same guy passed out drunk in front of a different Wawa. Didn't even nnow his address the second time and I had to remind him. Literally just admitted him to the hospital to sober up and nothing got done and he's probably either dead or drunk at this point unless some divine intervention happened in the last 6 months.

I feel like it's the small things that are drawing me to medicine at least for now. For example, I had a patient yelling that everyone in the hospital is racist and after a shift all I did was bring her 2 ginger ales and she said I was the nicest provider she had the entire time and she got discharged that day. Idk if she was completely delusional or maybe she was actually mistreated, but I guess I impacted her somehow and it at least made her happy. Even if you can't help 99% of people I still think it's worth it for the 1% that you can actually impact.

I did some reflection over this post and I think what I'm gonna do is I might drop my research position or cut back over the summer and volunteer at a charity clinic or something. I still feel like my place is in a clinic, but I do want to give back now cuz I know I'll have a lot less time to give back in the future. Although I've had an overwhelmingly positive experience with my research and love the members and culture in my lab, I don't feel like I get too much fulfillment persay and I do want serve more. As far as apps go, I'll just make a very safe application list.

Anyways, I'm gonna lock the thread now definitely was a good learning experience going into my apps this may.