MD Chances? Illinois; cGPA: 3.53; BCPM GPA: 3.66; MCAT: 27 and retake

[DrRambo33]

I am an Illinois resident looking to apply to allopathic schools. I am currently a senior so will be taking a year off, and I just wanted to know what schools I should be applying to. I just retook the MCAT yesterday and was averaging a 31 on AAMC practice exams, going into the test. My GPA and times for some activities are the numbers that I will be applying with, assuming all goes as it should.

cGPA: 3.53 (2 C's freshman year in 'Intro to Bible' and 'Why so Grimm? Fairy Tales')
-Strong upward trend with a 3.94 GPA for my final two years.
BCPM GPA: 3.66

MCAT: 27, 29/30 retake?

College basketball player for 2.5 years (ended because of a heart surgery)

Summer Internship at Archer Daniels Midland (Agriculture) company's Randall Research Center ~ 500 hours

Summer Internship at Southern Illinois University School of Medicine, Psychiatry Department, as a research intern ~ 300 hours
- The main focus of this internship was conducting my own research and producing a poster or paper. We are currently looking to publish the paper.
- I was also able to shadow the doctor that was overseeing my work and attend presentations by the medical students and professors.

Hospital volunteer, 10 months ~ 200 hours

Big Brother with Big Brothers Big Sisters, 9 months ~ 100 hours

Teaching assistant for general physics, 2 semesters ~ 60 hours
- Grade lab and class materials and help set up and tear down labs

Student Activity Board, 2 semesters ~ 25 hours
- Help organize and run school events like homecoming, Super Bowl party, and off-campus movie nights

Chemistry Club, Treasurer, 2 semesters ~ 20 hours
- Go to local elementary schools and run simple chemistry experiments with the students

I will be shadowing physicians and plan to work in a hospital, hopefully in the lab, during my off year.

Letters of Recommendation
- Research professor at Southern Illinois University SOM
- Physician/professor at Southern Illinois University SOM
- Biochemistry professor from undergrad
- Molecular genetics and Cell and Molecular Biology professor from undergrad
- Population genetics and Senior Seminar professor from undergrad
- Organic chemistry or politics professor from undergrad, if necessary

List:
- Southern Illinois University SOM
- Rosalind Franklin
- Rush Medical College
- University of Illinois College of Medicine
- Loyola University
- Albany Medical College
- Cooper Medical School of Rowan University
- Creighton University School of Medicine
- Drexel University College of Medicine
- Eastern Virginia Medical School
- Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University
- George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences
- New York Medical College
- The Commonwealth Medical College
- University of South Carolina School of Medicine - Greenville
-University of Washington School of Medicine
- Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
- Wake Forest

I need help on deciding out of state schools that I should apply to. I am looking to apply to 20 or so schools. All thoughts and opinions are welcome about anything and everything!

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[candbgirl]

You really need to wait until you get your new MCAT back. As it stands now your current MCAT is low for MD schools. You would probably have success at DO schools though. Do you have the MSAR? If not buy it now and start doing some research on the stats for all of thee schools and then move to OOS schools.

 

[gyngyn]

There are 5 schools in IL where your chances are decent with your current stats.

 

[DrRambo33]

There are 5 schools in IL where your chances are decent with your current stats.

Any thoughts on out of state schools to apply? I do have MSAR and am just not sure what schools are good options.

Looking through I did pick these out:

-Cooper Medical School of Rowan University
-Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University
-Howard University College of Medicine
-Indiana University School of Medicine
-Marshall University Joan C. Edwards School of Medicine
-Meharry Medical College
-Morehouse School of Medicine
-The Commonwealth Medical College
-University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Medicine
-University of North Dakota School of Medicine and Health Sciences
-University of South Carolina School of Medicine - Greenville
-West Virginia University School of Medicine
-Hofstra North Shore
-Albany Medical College
-New York Medical College

Good to apply to or no?

 

[gyngyn]

Delete: the HBCU's, schools that strongly prefer IS (e.g. UND unless you are native american), schools whose OOS matriculants are members of special programs (UMKC).

 

[Catalystik]

I am an Illinois resident looking to apply to allopathic schools. I am currently a senior so will be taking a year off, and I just wanted to know what schools I should be applying to. I just retook the MCAT yesterday and was averaging a 31 on AAMC practice exams, going into the test. My GPA and times for some activities are the numbers that I will be applying with, assuming all goes as it should.

cGPA: 3.53 (2 C's freshman year in 'Intro to Bible' and 'Why so Grimm? Fairy Tales')
-Strong upward trend with a 3.94 GPA for my final two years.
BCPM GPA: 3.66

MCAT: 27, 29/30 retake?

College basketball player for 2.5 years (ended because of a heart surgery)

Summer Internship at Archer Daniels Midland (Agriculture) company's Randall Research Center ~ 500 hours

Summer Internship at Southern Illinois University School of Medicine, Psychiatry Department, as a research intern ~ 300 hours
- The main focus of this internship was conducting my own research and producing a poster or paper. We are currently looking to publish the paper.
- I was also able to shadow the doctor that was overseeing my work and attend presentations by the medical students and professors.

Hospital volunteer, 10 months ~ 200 hours

Big Brother with Big Brothers Big Sisters, 9 months ~ 100 hours

Teaching assistant for general physics, 2 semesters ~ 60 hours
- Grade lab and class materials and help set up and tear down labs

Student Activity Board, 2 semesters ~ 25 hours
- Help organize and run school events like homecoming, Super Bowl party, and off-campus movie nights

Chemistry Club, Treasurer, 2 semesters ~ 20 hours
- Go to local elementary schools and run simple chemistry experiments with the students

I will be shadowing physicians and plan to work in a hospital, hopefully in the lab, during my off year.

Letters of Recommendation
- Research professor at Southern Illinois University SOM
- Physician/professor at Southern Illinois University SOM
- Biochemistry professor from undergrad
- Molecular genetics and Cell and Molecular Biology professor from undergrad
- Population genetics and Senior Seminar professor from undergrad
- Organic chemistry or politics professor from undergrad, if necessary

List:
- Southern Illinois University SOM
- Rosalind Franklin
- Rush Medical College
- University of Illinois College of Medicine
- Loyola University
- Albany Medical College
- Cooper Medical School of Rowan University
- Creighton University School of Medicine
- Drexel University College of Medicine
- Eastern Virginia Medical School
- Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University
- George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences
- New York Medical College
- The Commonwealth Medical College
- University of South Carolina School of Medicine - Greenville
-University of Washington School of Medicine
- Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
- Wake Forest

I need help on deciding out of state schools that I should apply to. I am looking to apply to 20 or so schools. All thoughts and opinions are welcome about anything and everything!

If you complete the planned shadowing after submitting your Primary Application, it won't do much to bolster your candidacy. Try to get it in during spring break if not otherwise,during the spring term, unless you already have, say 40-50+ hours with the Psychiatrist.

Also, 10 months of active clinical experience is kinda on the low side, unless you are continuing to add time over the next 5 months. Did you interact with patients while doing psych research that would add to your duration?

Do your parents reside south of I-80?

 

[DrRambo33]

If you complete the planned shadowing after submitting your Primary Application, it won't do much to bolster your candidacy. Try to get it in during spring break if not otherwise,during the spring term, unless you already have, say 40-50+ hours with the Psychiatrist.

Also, 10 months of active clinical experience is kinda on the low side, unless you are continuing to add time over the next 5 months. Did you interact with patients while doing psych research that would add to your duration?

Do your parents reside south of I-80?

I should be able to get some shadowing in at the hospital near school this semester. Also, I shadowed the psychiatrist once a week for anywhere from 3 to 4 hours during clinics for developmentally disabled patients. I would say I only have about 20 hours with that though.

The 10 months will include this coming semester. Unfortunately I didn't have my head on straight for quite some time through college and was no involved the way I should have been.

And yes, I do live below I-80. I live 45 minutes from SIU SOM and go to school 30 minutes away from it.

 

[DrRambo33]

As to if I interacted with patients during the shadowing, only minimally. When the doctor had to step out of the room I did talk to a few patients.

 

[Catalystik]

And yes, I do live below I-80. I live 45 minutes from SIU SOM and go to school 30 minutes away from it.

You should have a good chance at SIU then, which as you know prefers students from downstate Illinois.

You really, really need to do better research on the schools you're considering. The MSAR has most of the information you need, so be sure to read Selection Factors, Mission Statements, and evaluate the % of each class that constitutes matriculated OOSers. There are some regional biases that might make it look like a school takes a decent number of OOSers, but if you read further, you'll find they are from surrounding states or have strong state ties.

 

[Catalystik]

As to if I interacted with patients during the shadowing, only minimally. When the doctor had to step out of the room I did talk to a few patients.

I suggest you keep it listed under the Shadowing designation time totals.

 

[Goro]

- Southern Illinois University SOM
- Rosalind Franklin
- Rush Medical College
- University of Illinois College of Medicine
- Loyola University
- Albany Medical College
- Cooper Medical School of Rowan University
- Creighton University School of Medicine
- Drexel University College of Medicine
- Eastern Virginia Medical School
- Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University
- George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences
- New York Medical College
- The Commonwealth Medical College
- Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
- Wake Forest
Add all other new MD sxchools, except Hofstra and Va Tech
Add DO schools. A 27 is circling the drain for MD schools. Start with DMU, MUCOM and CCOM.

 

[DrRambo33]

- Southern Illinois University SOM
- Rosalind Franklin
- Rush Medical College
- University of Illinois College of Medicine
- Loyola University
- Albany Medical College
- Cooper Medical School of Rowan University
- Creighton University School of Medicine
- Drexel University College of Medicine
- Eastern Virginia Medical School
- Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University
- George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences
- New York Medical College
- The Commonwealth Medical College
- Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
- Wake Forest
Add all other new MD sxchools, except Hofstra and Va Tech
Add DO schools. A 27 is circling the drain for MD schools. Start with DMU, MUCOM and CCOM.

I know 27 is low. I'm really hoping I performed to my potential and how I was on practice exams with my most recent mcat. If I did indeed get a 29 or 30, my chances with these schools would be greatly improved. Correct?

 

[Goro]

For schools that don't average scores and instead take the highest or most recent, yes.

If I did indeed get a 29 or 30, my chances with these schools would be greatly improved. Correct?

 

[DrRambo33]

Hi all! First, thank you to everyone that replied to me before. I just got my MCAT results back. So I wanted to ask for more advice, especially updated advice for schools to which to apply. Below is a refresher of my stats/ECs, with the new MCAT score and school list.

Illinois resident, current senior and will be taking a gap year (scribe or phlebotomist in this time)
cGPA: 3.53 (strong upward trend, 3.94 for the final two years, 4.0 final 3 semesters)
BCPM GPA: 3.66
First MCAT: 27 (9p/10v/8b)
Second MCAT: 33 (12p/11v/10b)

Just a quick synopsis of ECs (more detail in original post)
-College basketball for 2.5 years
-Internships with agricultural research facility and SIU School of Medicine. Both were research based and the one at SIU may result in a first author publication
-Hospital volunteer: ~ 200 hrs
-TA for physics: two semesters
-Big Brothers Big Sisters: 9 months, ~ 100 hrs
-Student Activity Board: 2 semesters
-Chemistry Club: 2 semesters, current Treasurer
-Shadowing (strong focus on this currently): ~ 20 hrs with psychiatrist, ~ 20 hrs with orthopedic surgeon with a focus on joints and sports medicine, 4 hrs with orthopedic surgeon with a focus on the lower extremities, set up to shadow a primary care physician soon

LOR: committee letter made up of genetics professor, biochemistry professor, premed advisor, and politics professor
I also have LORs from a research professor and psychiatrist with SIU SOM

School list:
- Southern Illinois University
- Rosalind Franklin
- Rush
- University of Illinois
- Loyola
- Albany
- Rowan University
- Creighton
- Drexel
- Eastern Virginia
- Quinnipiac University
- George Washington University
- New York Medical College
- The Commonwealth
- University of South Carolina School of Medicine - Greenville
-University of Washington
- Virginia Commonwealth
- Wake Forest
- Florida Atlantic
- Indiana University
- Medical College of Wisconsin
-Pennsylvania State University
-Saint Louis University
- Louisiana State in New Orleans
- University of Toledo
- Brown University
- Tulane University
- USF Health Morsani
- University of Louisville
- University of South Carolina
- University of South Carolina - Greenville
- University of Utah

I plan to apply to 20 to 25 schools so please let me know if any of these schools is simply a donation. I also wonder about possible reaches. Thank you ahead of time for any help!

 

[DrRambo33]

I also meant to note that the time shadowing the orthopedic surgeons is all in clinics with patients except 2.5 hours that was spent observing a surgery.

 

[Catalystik]

I'd suggest removing UWashington and the South Carolina schools. Be sure you have strong ties to Indiana. Brown seems unlikely since their OOSers mainly come from their undergrad program. Be sure you're OK with the high OOS tuition for Penn State and the rural med mission of Commonwealth in Pa.

 

[chemguy79]

You have far too many OOS programs on your list; I would apply much more strategically (mission statements, OOS students interviewed, etc.) instead of looking solely at numbers.

 

[DrRambo33]

I'd suggest removing UWashington and the South Carolina schools. Be sure you have strong ties to Indiana. Brown seems unlikely since their OOSers mainly come from their undergrad program. Be sure you're OK with the high OOS tuition for Penn State and the rural med mission of Commonwealth in Pa.

Thank you for your response! I will look into all of that. I figured South Carolina was a no go, considering their OOS numbers. I just have always wanted to get further south for school. So tired of this Illinois weather! Any idea of how far I can stretch for reach schools? I didn't know if I could consider schools with a 3.6-3.7 average GPA and 33 or so average MCAT given my retake and high recent GPA.

 

[DrRambo33]

You have far too many OOS programs on your list; I would apply much more strategically (mission statements, OOS students interviewed, etc.) instead of looking solely at numbers.

Thank you for responding. That is just a rough list. I included the 5 in state schools that I have a chance at (northwestern and chicago are obviously not options). I will look into the mission statements and interview numbers for the OOS schools I have listed though. As I asked above, any idea of how far I can reach for schools? 3.6-3.7 average GPA and 33 average MCAT given my recent GPA and MCAT retake?

 

[candbgirl]

You have a nice jump in your MCAT but now you should find out if schools take the highest/most recent/average of all MCAT scores. This should at least be taken into account for list development. Several Adcoms have said many times that They are encouraged to average scores. some do-some don't but it would be helpful to know which ones do! Also do you live south of the I 80 corridor? SIU seems to prefer students that do!

 

[Catalystik]

Thank you for your response! I will look into all of that. I figured South Carolina was a no go, considering their OOS numbers. I just have always wanted to get further south for school. So tired of this Illinois weather! Any idea of how far I can stretch for reach schools? I didn't know if I could consider schools with a 3.6-3.7 average GPA and 33 or so average MCAT given my retake and high recent GPA.

Since you won't necessarily know which schools average multiple MCATs and which do not (since many schools are obscure on this point, though others do overtly state they judge by best or more recent score), you'll want to include schools that cover a range of Lizzy M scores. You know about Lizzy M scores, right?

 

[DrRambo33]

You have a nice jump in your MCAT but now you should find out if schools take the highest/most recent/average of all MCAT scores. This should at least be taken into account for list development. Several Adcoms have said many times that They are encouraged to average scores. some do-some don't but it would be helpful to know which ones do! Also do you live south of the I 80 corridor? SIU seems to prefer students that do!

All right. I will look into how schools consider scores. From what I've heard about this, it looks like I may be calling a lot of schools to find out. I do live below I-80 though. I live just 30 minutes from SIU's campus in Springfield and attend undergrad even closer. Thank you for responding and sharing your suggestions

 

[DrRambo33]

Since you won't necessarily know which schools average multiple MCATs and which do not (since many schools are obscure on this point, though others do overtly state they judge by best or more recent score), you'll want to include schools that cover a range of Lizzy M scores. You know about Lizzy M scores, right?

Yep, I do. What would be a good range with my LizzyM (68, 69 if you do the plus one)? Are schools with a score 1 or even 2 points higher options? Again, thank you for your help.

 

[Catalystik]

What would be a good range with my LizzyM (68, 69 if you do the plus one)? Are schools with a score 1 or even 2 points higher options?

Yes, or even a bit higher if your ECs are a perfect fit for a school's mission. Just don't decrease the number of "fit" schools to add reaches.

 

[DrRambo33]

Yes, or even a bit higher if your ECs are a perfect fit for a school's mission. Just don't decrease the number of "fit" schools to add reaches.

Awesome! This is what I was trying to figure out. I obviously just didn't know how to ask. Thank you! And I won't replace fit schools for reaches. I'm planning on 15 or so fit school and 5 reaches

 

[DrRambo33]

One last post. I think I have pretty much finalized my list and just wanted you guys to take a look. I know it is a lot of schools, but I obviously want to apply broadly and will prewrite secondaries.

My stats: 3.53 GPA 3.67 sGPA (big upward trend), first MCAT 27 (9/10/8), second MCAT 33 (12/11/10)

Commonwealth
Cooper
Tulane
Quinnipiac
Eastern Virginia
Albany
Wright St
Virginia Tech
VCU
NYMC
Drexel
Wake Forest
Vermont
Oakland
Rosalind (IS)
Rush (IS)
U of I (IS)
SIU (IS)
Loyola (IS)
Tufts
Georgetown
Miami
Jefferson
Temple
George Washington
Penn State
Creighton
SLU
Medical College of Wisconsin
Einstein
WVU
Western Michigan
Colorado

Thank you ahead of time for you help and advice!

 

[Vain Brother]

great job on that retake!

consider deleting some OOS state schools with low OOS interview rates: cooper, wright st, possibly colorado.
schools like tufts, georgetown, and george washington get tons of applications and are kind of low yield too, but that's up to you
why not add a few reaches? how about northwestern or rochester?

 

[DaMedDude]

Looks good! Just going to come down to that mcat! 30+ and you should be golden for at least once MD acceptance

 

[DrRambo33]

Looks good! Just going to come down to that mcat! 30+ and you should be golden for at least once MD acceptance

Thank you for taking the time to reply! I have actually already retaken and got a balanced 33, The early bit of this post is a couple months old. I just posted a final list at the end and wanted advice on that. If you want to take a look and give me your opinion that would be great!

 

[DrRambo33]

great job on that retake!

consider deleting some OOS state schools with low OOS interview rates: cooper, wright st, possibly colorado.
schools like tufts, georgetown, and george washington get tons of applications and are kind of low yield too, but that's up to you
why not add a few reaches? how about northwestern or rochester?

I was actually considering removing some schools and replacing them with a few reaches, as you suggested. I am just afraid that I might remove a school that could end up being my lone acceptance. Do you think I am safe to remove some and add greater reaches? I was actually considering Rochester and Northwestern. Maybe Dartmouth, Boston, Case, and Hofstra (not sure this is a true reach)

 

[DrRambo33]

Also Indiana. Though they do not take a lot of OOS students, I actually only live about 2 hours from Indianapolis so going to school there would give me good access to my family.

 

[Vain Brother]

indiana's a good pick -- they have a >10% OOS interview rate

dartmouth is low yield because of their small class size, and they like non-traditional students. BU, like tufts/GW/GTown, gets a lot (~10k) applications. but they do interview a lot!

you're well below case's medians, but it's not the biggest reach in the world

 

[DrRambo33]

indiana's a good pick -- they have a >10% OOS interview rate

dartmouth is low yield because of their small class size, and they like non-traditional students. BU, like tufts/GW/GTown, gets a lot (~10k) applications. but they do interview a lot!

you're well below case's medians, but it's not the biggest reach in the world

Sounds like I will add Indiana and consider adding BU, Case, and Northwestern. Any reaches that aren't quite as extreme as Northwestern and Case that you have in mind? I removed Jefferson because they get a ton of apps and state that they average scores. Considering removing georgetown, tufts, and GW.