Chances?

[throwaway1916]

Undergrad major: Chem. Engineering at a Midwest state school

cGPA: 3.2
sGPA: 2.9

Masters Engineering Degree: 4.0

Post Bac: 4.0 (so far only 14 credits. working on it)

Overall GPA with Post Bac:
cGPA: 3.3
sGPA: 3.1

Grade Replacement:
cGPA: 3.4
sGPA: 3.35

MCAT: 522

URM. Live in Kansas.

I have good EC's, volunteering, shadowing, plenty of clinical hours. Trying to be anonymous.

Soooo I'm pretty uneven stat/MCAT wise. Need help! What schools should I look at? The MSAR isn't helpful for someone like me.

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[throwaway1916]

?

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

MD is gonna be rough with that GPA, but I have heard engineering gets a bit of a break, esp since you got such a strong MCAT. Your best bet by far is UK School of Medicine, since they interview 400/500 instate applicants. Otherwise its gonna be an absolute crapshoot, just apply broadly to a ton of private schools and maybe a few state schools that are OOS friendly (If you havent, buy MSAR and check the accepted students page).

Id suggest:
Tulane
VA tech
CMS Rosalind Fraklin
EVMS
WVU
Albany
NYMC
Hofstra
Quinnipiac
FAU (they have a history of OOS/high MCAT)
USC Greenville (Same as above)
Cal Northstate (if you're ok with for profit med school)
Oakland
Western Michigan
Drexel




You're fine for any DO school

 

[GrapesofRath]

MD is gonna be rough with that GPA, but I have heard engineering gets a bit of a break, esp since you got such a strong MCAT. Your best bet by far is UK School of Medicine, since they interview 400/500 instate applicants. Otherwise its gonna be an absolute crapshoot, just apply broadly to a ton of private schools and maybe a few state schools that are OOS friendly (If you havent, buy MSAR and check the accepted students page).

You're fine for any DO school

OP's stats will generate alot of interest as a URM. While there aren't too many URMS with 36+ scores, almost all of them that apply to MD schools are accepted even those in the 3.0-3.4 range.

Depending on whatever EC's you have you are a reasonable candidate for a large number of US MD schools. Just keep up the good work in the post-bacc. Whenever you do apply, focus more on schools with higher MCAT averages; lower tier schools interview few people with 38+ scores, especially a URM.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Whoa yea, I missed the URM part. Thats big, you should have alot of success. Throw some apps to HBCs if youre black. Like grapes said you're a good candidate for most Us schools. Sorry for missing that!

 

[gyngyn]

Which community?

 

[throwaway1916]

OP's stats will generate alot of interest as a URM. While there aren't too many URMS with 36+ scores, almost all of them that apply to MD schools are accepted even those in the 3.0-3.4 range.

Depending on whatever EC's you have you are a reasonable candidate for a large number of US MD schools. Just keep up the good work in the post-bacc. Whenever you do apply, focus more on schools with higher MCAT averages; lower tier schools interview few people with 38+ scores, especially a URM.

Whoa yea, I missed the URM part. Thats big, you should have alot of success. Throw some apps to HBCs if youre black. Like grapes said you're a good candidate for most Us schools. Sorry for missing that!

Which community?

I'm half Native American (Cherokee) half Caucasian. Does that matter?

 

[Doug Underhill]

Do you have a history of service to the Native American community?

 

[throwaway1916]

Not particularly no. I was a part of the Multicultural engineering program at my school. Basically got a scholarship and had to fulfill community service and study hours etc. to be a part of it but it was for all minorities. I did most of my volunteering through them but not specifically for native American groups. Most of the native American places that I would have liked to volunteer at were too far away for me to do so.

 

[gyngyn]

Are you on a tribal roll?

 

[Goro]

Based upon an n=1 from the experiences of one of my NA advisees, I think that you might very well pull tons of II, followed by tons of rejections.

Too many white kids check the NA box, thinking that this will give them a leg up and as such, it blows up not only in their faces, but also in the faces of applicants like you.

Not particularly no. I was a part of the Multicultural engineering program at my school. Basically got a scholarship and had to fulfill community service and study hours etc. to be a part of it but it was for all minorities. I did most of my volunteering through them but not specifically for native American groups. Most of the native American places that I would have liked to volunteer at were too far away for me to do so.

 

[throwaway1916]

Based upon an n=1 from the experiences of one of my NA advisees, I think that you might very well pull tons of II, followed by tons of rejections.

Too many white kids check the NA box, thinking that this will give them a leg up and as such, it blows up not only in their faces, but also in the faces of applicants like you.

Wow that's a little harsh. Why will not volunteering at a Native American place be held against me? Why should I not put it down if that's what I am? I have plenty of other volunteering... I was planning on putting down both Caucasian and Native American. Is there a reason that I shouldnt? I never said I wanted to serve the Native American community or that I wouldnt. I dont know what I want to do yet.

 

[throwaway1916]

Are you on a tribal roll?

The paperwork is being processed but my ancestors were on the roll. The tribe representative that my family talked to in person told us that we will be getting a card/roll number.

 

[WedgeDawg]

The safest bet is to apply to the widest range of schools possible. Apply to all your state schools, your alma mater if they have a medical school, then apply in a ratio of 50% : 30% : 20% low tier, mid tier, top tier for the rest for a total of 25-27 schools. Definitely check whatever races/ethnicities you identify as, but prepare for gyngyn's possible eventuality that your URM status won't give you a boost.

 

[throwaway1916]

The safest bet is to apply to the widest range of schools possible. Apply to all your state schools, your alma mater if they have a medical school, then apply in a ratio of 50% : 30% : 20% low tier, mid tier, top tier for the rest for a total of 25-27 schools. Definitely check whatever races/ethnicities you identify as, but prepare for gyngyn's possible eventuality that your URM status won't give you a boost.

Thank you for your response. Are minorities supposed to volunteer within their communities? I dont understand why it's bad for me to volunteer at a hospital like I have?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Thank you for your response. Are minorities supposed to volunteer within their communities? I dont understand why it's bad for me to volunteer at a hospital like I have?

Well, one of the rationales for giving underrepresented in medicine minorities a "boost" in admissions is so that these minorities will work with their home populations as a physician (there is literature out there that suggests that minorities prefer to be treated by physicians from their own cultural community or something to that effect). Thus, showing a commitment to your cultural community before medical school is taken to be a commitment to or at least possibility of serving that community during your professional career.

However, in my experience, it isn't really necessary to serve your own community to gain the URM "boost". However, in this case, due to what gyngyn has brought up, it's less likely that your URM status will be "questioned" so to speak if you have service to the community you represent. This is to ensure that others are not unfairly taking advantage of this "boost" afforded to URMs, but, for better or for worse, some adcoms are more inclined to deny the boost to those deserving of it instead of giving the benefit of the doubt to those who are not being genuine.

 

[throwaway1916]

Well, one of the rationales for giving underrepresented in medicine minorities a "boost" in admissions is so that these minorities will work with their home populations as a physician (there is literature out there that suggests that minorities prefer to be treated by physicians from their own cultural community or something to that effect). Thus, showing a commitment to your cultural community before medical school is taken to be a commitment to or at least possibility of serving that community during your professional career.

However, in my experience, it isn't really necessary to serve your own community to gain the URM "boost". However, in this case, due to what gyngyn has brought up, it's less likely that your URM status will be "questioned" so to speak if you have service to the community you represent. This is to ensure that others are not unfairly taking advantage of this "boost" afforded to URMs, but, for better or for worse, some adcoms are more inclined to deny the boost to those deserving of it instead of giving the benefit of the doubt to those who are not being genuine.

While I understand the rational... that really blows. Thanks for the informative post. I hadn't thought about how these things would look to other people... I'm kind of sad to hear that. How am I supposed to know where I want to end up before I start? Gah. Frustrating.

 

[WedgeDawg]

While I understand the rational... that really blows. Thanks for the informative post. I hadn't thought about how these things would look to other people... I'm kind of sad to hear that. How am I supposed to know where I want to end up before I start? Gah. Frustrating.

It's certainly a convoluted and uncertain process. Just do the best you can and see what happens.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Keep in mind what Goro said is an n=1 experience. Be careful not to make sweeping generalizations off that. What he's saying is kind of an unusual case; it should be very doable to spot a White claiming he is part Native American a mile away and in many cases there's no need to even give an interview if you believe someone's being disingenuous. If you want more n=3 or 4 or whatever anecdotes, I know multiple Native Americans who've applied to medical schools; none of them had this issue of being thought of as "gaming" the system and all did very well in admission with success you would expect URMs to have. It's more be cognizant of the idea that there are absolutely white people who try gaming the system by looking at their 1/8th or 1/16th Native American status and med schools are aware of this.

Note with Native American status often what is the key question for Native Americans is are you on a tribe role. That's a good way of sniffing out the Native Americans who are trying to game the system. And what the 'Dawg said is right; in theory(and note there is alot more to it as to why there is the URM boost in reality IMO) the whole reason URMS get such a boost is because statistically they are more likely to serve to their URM community which is underserved in medicine. The person who has already done service to their URM community is far more likely to actually help that URM community after medical school than the URM who hasn't done squat for their community prior to med school.

Another thing to keep in mind is how schools view URMs can vary rather significantly. Hence the recommendation to apply broadly. How a school will look at a Native American who's only now processing tribal documents and who doesn't have much service to their population could easily vary.

The best thing you can do is continuing to thrive in your post-bacc. Even if you don't get much URM boost, keep doing well in a post-bacc and a 3.4/3.2/39 type applicant with an upward trend can still certainly have success.

 

[throwaway1916]

Keep in mind what Goro said is an n=1 experience. Be careful not to make sweeping generalizations off that. What he's saying is kind of an unusual case; it should be very doable to spot a White claiming he is part Native American a mile away and in many cases there's no need to even give an interview if you believe someone's being disingenuous. If you want more n=3 or 4 or whatever anecdotes, I know multiple Native Americans who've applied to medical schools; none of them had this issue of being thought of as "gaming" the system and all did very well in admission with success you would expect URMs to have. It's more be cognizant of the idea that there are absolutely white people who try gaming the system by looking at their 1/8th or 1/16th Native American status and med schools are aware of this.

Note with Native American status often what is the key question for Native Americans is are you on a tribe role. That's a good way of sniffing out the Native Americans who are trying to game the system. And what the 'Dawg said is right; in theory(and note there is alot more to it as to why there is the URM boost in reality IMO) the whole reason URMS get such a boost is because statistically they are more likely to serve to their URM community which is underserved in medicine. The person who has already done service to their URM community is far more likely to actually help that URM community after medical school than the URM who hasn't done squat for their community prior to med school.

Another thing to keep in mind is how schools view URMs can vary rather significantly. Hence the recommendation to apply broadly. How a school will look at a Native American who's only now processing tribal documents and who doesn't have much service to their population could easily vary.

The best thing you can do is continuing to thrive in your post-bacc. Even if you don't get much URM boost, keep doing well in a post-bacc and a 3.4/3.2/39 type applicant with an upward trend can still certainly have success.

It's certainly a convoluted and uncertain process. Just do the best you can and see what happens.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate your insights. I know it is kind of weird that my family is just now getting involved with the tribe but it wasn't like it was up to me, my family really just didn't have an interest in doing so (their own prerogatives). I will think about what you've said and try to do the best I can. I'll just mark down both and try to explain my situation as best I can if the need arises. Funny how URM status may actually hurt me. You don't hear about that very often.

Well, really it's my poor GPA not URM status that's hurting me. I wont make generalizations. Thanks guys!

Any other schools that I should look at?

 

[Doug Underhill]

It's not going to hurt you if you start volunteering with the Native American community. The rationale behind my question was that Native Americans are underserved, and med schools recruit Native Americans to better serve this population. The history of service is evidence that you will help that community.

I'm 87% certain that you won't be asked if you're on a tribal roll on an interview- questions about ethnicity at interviews are heavily frowned upon.

 

[throwaway1916]

It's not going to hurt you if you start volunteering with the Native American community. The rationale behind my question was that Native Americans are underserved, and med schools recruit Native Americans to better serve this population. The history of service is evidence that you will help that community.

I'm 87% certain that you won't be asked if you're on a tribal roll on an interview- questions about ethnicity at interviews are heavily frowned upon.

You don't think it would look weird if I start volunteering 6 months before I apply? In all likelihood I would have less than 100 hours by the time I submit my applications.