changing careers - sonography?

[rxaggie2005]

I am new to this forum. I usually post in the Pre-pharmacy forum, but I must admit I am becoming increasingly discouraged with a pharmacy career. I've always had sonography in the back of my mind. I was hoping some of you may have some insight and opinions about this career. I am in Houston and I could either take the courses at a community college or at the Sanford-Brown institute. I know absolutely nothing about Sanford-Brown, are they reputable? Anyone have experiences they wouldnt mind sharing??

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[nev]

Hi...no offense about being a pharmacist , but to me, I think it is kinda a boring kob. You'll have to study for 4 years and very indepth and in the end count medications. Ofcourse there are other crucial responsibilities but to me its not a really cool job. But a sonographer can work in different settings and they are paid well too. There are different specializations for it (but not as much as for rad. techs). But the choice is yours...I'm not trying to discourage you.
Good luck
Nev

 

[sunnyjohn]

IMHO, if you are going to go with sonography or any allied health program, go to your local community college. It costs a lot less.

If you do decide to go with Sanford make sure THE PROGRAM AT THAT LOCAL SCHOOL is fully accredited by whatever body that accredites sonographers.

 

[rxaggie2005]

IMHO, if you are going to go with sonography or any allied health program, go to your local community college. It costs a lot less.

If you do decide to go with Sanford make sure THE PROGRAM AT THAT LOCAL SCHOOL is fully accredited by whatever body that accredites sonographers.

Thanks for everyone's advice so far.

I would much rather go to the community college since it's alot cheaper!! I cant apply until the 2006 term because the deadline has passed. The application process seems very detailed and applicants are only accepted each Fall. Are allied health programs competitive?? What type of applicants are more likely to be accepted?

 

[sunnyjohn]

I know nothing of the community colleges in Houston, but in Dallas the competition for Sonography, radiography, all the imaging programs and nursing is fierce.

Imaging is tough because each school is allowed only a selected number of clinical spots in DFW. At DCCCD/ El Centro the interview is make or break. With that said 3 of the 4 people that I know that applied got in on their first shot.

Talk to a few students and advisors at the schools you are interested in in Houston. Make sure you know exactly what they require. Make a decent timetable for yourself to help you stay organized. Do well on your pre-req. Those things wil stregthen your chances.

 

[nev]

usually in my community college , allied health programs are very competitive. They look at your ACT scores a lot. If you have a good ACT score...then there is a really good chance of you getting in. Especially sonography is pretty competitve. Volunteer service in hospitals / clinical hours in hospitals give u great chances of getting in.

 

[DreamOn]

I've been looking all over the 'net for more info on sonography- can anyone help?

 

[zenman]

I've been looking all over the 'net for more info on sonography- can anyone help?

I'd call one up at a medical center and have a chat with them since they have already been there and done it.

 

[guetzow]

People with pharm backround do well in PA school, and RAD PA is an expanding field.

 

[redbull]

People with pharm backround do well in PA school, and RAD PA is an expanding field.

The avg income I saw for RPA was like 85-90k, but the job market doesn't look so good b/c in most states RPAs are regarded the same as rad techs, & I found no job positions avail from online.

 

[core0]

The avg income I saw for RPA was like 85-90k, but the job market doesn't look so good b/c in most states RPAs are regarded the same as rad techs, & I found no job positions avail from online.

RPA's are PAs that practice in New York. RAD PAs are PAs that work in either radiology or IR. Radiology Practitioner Assistants would like you to think that RPA stood for radiology physician assistant. For more information look here:
http://www.aapa.org/gandp/rpas.html

You are correct that Radiology Practitioner Assistants in most states are credentialled and paid similar to rad techs. Radiology PAs on the other hand are well paid (above the national average):
http://www.aapa.org/research/SpecialtyReports07/Radiology07C.pdf

This is a small but rapidly growing area for PAs.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[Taurus]

The avg income I saw for RPA was like 85-90k, but the job market doesn't look so good b/c in most states RPAs are regarded the same as rad techs, & I found no job positions avail from online.

This is a good thread discussing the RA vs RPA movement. It gets better near the end when some informed posters make comments.

http://www.auntminnie.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=132262

Basically, the RPA/RA field is a mess. The RPA's tried to force themselves on the radiologists. The radiologists responded by creating the RA. The role of the RA is watered down so much that it is pretty much pointless. The radiologists learned from the anesthesiologist vs CRNA mess and didn't want to repeat it in radiology. If you want to go into this field, being a PA or NP makes a whole lot more sense.

There are some other good threads on how the radiologists feel about RPA's. So do a search.

 

[slb]

I'm a sonographer, and while it's a pretty good job, it does have its downsides. It's very tough on the body. I know few sonographers that don't have pain in the hand, arm or shoulder on a regular basis. I'm typing this while in intense pain in my right shoulder. Obese patients will make your life miserable as you must press VERY hard to try to get a decent image. Scanning's not the nice easy glide it looks like on the TV.

Also, most hospitals/clinics won't let you discuss results with patients. If you like patient contact, you might be disappointed as you spend a lot of time saying: "I'm sorry, I can't give you any results. Please talk to your doctor in one week when she gets the report." Patients will wheedle, argue, whine, anything to get you to tell them something. And you can't (most places), and it's frustrating.

You are expected to be an expert at what you do (the board exams sure expect it), but you are not treated like one by the overwhelming majority of radiologists, ED docs, etc.

If you are still interested, you have seriously looked into it, and shadowed a sonographer if possible, check caahep.org first for a list of accredited programs. Do not go to an unaccredited program, no matter how appealing it seems. It will hurt you in the long run.

PM me if you have more questions that I can answer.

 

[slb]

Sorry, I was a little pessimistic there. Right now I actually like my new job a lot. I'm doing OB ultrasound and the docs I work with are cool. It's more of a collaboration, and I'm allowed to discuss what I'm seeing with the patient (to a limited extent, of course).

There are a wide variety of positions available, and of course you can do vascular, or echo, or fetal, or general depending on what you like best (some of those require extra coursework). But most positions, at least in hospital settings, can be grueling physically and you have strict limits on what you can say to patients.

If you work in a hospital you may have to push the extremely heavy machine around to do portable exams on patients, contorting yourself to scan patients in ICU beds. Make sure you want to be pushing machines around when you are 50.

This reply is taking a pessimistic turn again ... I better stop!

 

[Sunfire]

slb, when you do vascular scans, I know you're probably sometimes looking for aneurysm or thrombosis, maybe fistula...is there anything else you would scan for?

 

[njbmd]

I am new to this forum. I usually post in the Pre-pharmacy forum, but I must admit I am becoming increasingly discouraged with a pharmacy career. I've always had sonography in the back of my mind. I was hoping some of you may have some insight and opinions about this career. I am in Houston and I could either take the courses at a community college or at the Sanford-Brown institute. I know absolutely nothing about Sanford-Brown, are they reputable? Anyone have experiences they wouldnt mind sharing??

Sonography is going to be well-represented at the community college level. The only drawback, as someone pointed out, is that these courses often fill pretty quickly. A good strategy would be to get your "name in the hat" at your local community college, and take any pre-reqs (A & P, baby Biochem etc) that you can for this program so that you can start as soon as possible.

The vascular sonography techs that I work with on a regular basis are my "right arm" when it comes to handling things. They are great about notifying me of "troubling" findings and I can get to reading and reviewing those scans as quickly as possible. They do excellent work and I appreciate the service that they provide for patients.

They also know how to compress pseudoaneurysms which has averted surgery for more than a few post cardiac cath patients. They have been able to get the pseudoaneurysm compressed so that by the time I have walked from my office to the patient's bedside, things are under control.

As other folks have said, obese patients can present a challenge (they are a challenge for me too) and patients will often want you (the technician) to provide them with exam findings (not a good idea). Still, as with any allied health career, you should find out as much as you can (including shadowing a couple of these folks) so that you can make an informed decision. Good luck!

 

[Sunfire]

They also know how to compress pseudoaneurysms which has averted surgery for more than a few post cardiac cath patients. They have been able to get the pseudoaneurysm compressed so that by the time I have walked from my office to the patient's bedside, things are under control.

That is amazing. I have much to learn.

 

[slb]

I'm not a vascular tech. Used to do general (abdomen, ob, "small parts" - ie, thyroid, testicle, breast), now I do high-risk fetal. I personally don't much care for vascular; it never grabbed me, so I never really trained in it. Some people absolutely adore it, though.

Sonography is a great career. You just have to be the right person for it. That's why, as njbmd said, you should find out as much as you can and shadow. Shadow techs in several areas, if possible (echo, vascular, ob) and ask them what they like and don't like about their jobs.

What I like: it's interesting. I learn new things every day. I have some autonomy, and that increases as the docs get to trust your clinical judgment. I get to catch ectopics before they rupture, and find subtle fetal anomalies. I have great benefits and a good hourly wage.

What I don't like: the ergonomics factor - work-related MSK injuries, pain, soreness, etc. Limited upward mobility, small 'scope of practice' (if such a phrase can be applied to a tech position). Occupying the weird tech space, where many patients think you know everything and are just withholding it, and some doctors and nurses think you don't know anything. Not much opportunity for further education- there's no master's program yet (to my knowledge), and very few bachelors programs.

There is a lot of flexibility among positions, which is nice. Many positions require a lot of call (which *sucks*, but pays VERY well), but there are a lot of PRN (as-needed) positions where you can have more flexibility. You can work for a hospital or a doc's office, or freelance with a laptop machine and be mobile, if you partner with a radiologist.

Definitely look into it. It's a fast expanding profession. I get recruitment emails and postcards all the time from all over the country, many with sweet sign-on bonuses. Just make sure you can be happy in a subordinate position, where you are not allowed to give patients results, and where you do not have final responsibility for the patient or the outcome. And if you already have carpal tunnel syndrome, tendonitis or back problems you really might want to think twice.

 

[slb]

here are some sites you could check out if you are interested:

http://www.sdms.org/
http://sonoworld.com/
http://ultrasoundcases.info/
http://www.ardms.org/default.asp?ContentID=1&menubar=1
http://www.caahep.org/

 

[sherbobhanjen]

Hi! New to this forum. New student in "pre sonography" program. I am 45 years old and I am very interested in finding out whether you think that specializing (ie: cardiac or vascular) helps you get a job or limits your opportunities. The school I am going to has a general program, vascular and cardiac. Also, do you have any input in regards to any of these 3 areas? I really need to do this right! I would appreciate any feedback you may have. Thanks!

 

[slb]

It really depends on the area in which you live. In most of the country, demand is so high for sonographers that you probably won't limit your options by specializing, because there are plenty of jobs for everybody. In cities or near sonography schools, that's a little different. Many places want well-rounded, general techs who can also do vascular. If you can become that person, you can probably get a job anywhere.

Echo is really kind of separate. Echo techs seem to only do echoes, all day long. Your best bet is to find out what you like doing, and then do that. As I mentioned, I don't really like vascular as much as OB, so if I'd only trained into that I'd be unhappy now. If you are completely fascinated by the heart, and want to do that exclusively, than an echo program would be fine. Shadow different types of techs if possible and find out what you are interested in. If you learn general and get registered, some hospitals will train you into vascular if you are good and they like you. Echo usually (in my experience) doesn't work like that. Ask around and see what it's like in your town.

Check your local job listings and see who is hiring. In my area (Chicagoland) I see a lot of echo listings, a smattering of general listings, and very few OB-only listings.

Two other points. The first is that if you are going to do this you really have to go to an accredited program (hopefully you know that already). The second is that it's a pretty small field, and many techs have several part time jobs at different hospitals or clinics. Consequently, word gets around fast if the student isn't a team player or seemed disinterested, crabby with patients, whatever. Getting a job coming out of your rotations is going to depend on how well the people like you. Be likable, friendly, helpful and personable and you'll be fine (if you know your stuff). Be arrogant, snippy, standoffish or act like a *****, and people will call other departments to tell them not to hire you. I've seen it happen.

Good luck with whatever you decide. You'll be fine whichever way you go.

 

[berrybrumble]

I've been looking all over the 'net for more info on sonography- can anyone help?

I've wanted to become a sonographer for a long time. I thought the only way to get to become a sonographer was to go to RT school then put another year in for DMS. I went to a community college for 2 years and did all the pre-reqs just to get rejected 2 years in a row to the RT program. I had a really good GPA too. So, I had to do something else. I transferred to a 4 year university and I graduated this past May with a bachelor of science degree in business. I've been unable to find a job-what disappointment! So, I found a school that is accredited by CAAHEP and offers an online DMS program. I applied and got accepted. I had covered all but 2 pre-reqs with my undergrad. Lucky for me, they are going to allow me to take those 2 pre-reqs alongside the DMS classes that I will begin in a week. I'm very excited and I'm trying to prepare myself for some pretty intense studying. I will do all of my course work online and they will arrange my clinicals with local providers (hospitals/doctors offices). I will complete this program next fall.

I shadowed in a DMS department before and I have a friend that I've questioned about her likes and dislikes of the job but for me personally, the benefits and likes far out weigh the dislikes and such and I should obtain a job immediately upon completion and obtaining registry).

Good luck with your choice!

 

[veryhappymom]

Berrybrumble,

Could you please tell me the name of your online DMS school? My husband would like to retrain as a medical sonographer and his current job has started massive layoffs. Thanks!

 

[lillybean]

I am pleased to have found this forum. I will be starting my DMS core in one month. I am a non-traditional student. At 43, I have decided that Massage Therapy is not enough for me.
I am thinking of moving to N.C. after graduation. So, I was hoping to network with anyone in the field in that area. I have a lot of questions and hope to chat with someone who is willing to sacrifice some time to a newbie. I thank you.
LB

 

[lmncox]

I've been in the IT field for 33 years now and am looking to "reinvent" myself. At 54, I'm no spring chicken, but am in great health and looking at another 10 years or so of community contribution. The imaging field looks like a great fit for me, but as I ran down different internet "rabbit trails", I have found a lot of info I hadn't considered. The field is in need of qualified folks, the amount of people living longer, and the turnover of folks who been in the field is growing (at least what the reports say). Although I believe I can withstand that the physical riggers of an 8-10 day, what is the real potential for someone my age to start a career in this field? Since I've missed the admissions deadline for this year, I potentially won't be able to start until 2010.
I'd appreciate any/all frank and honest opinions.

 

[slb]

I've never been an RT, but RT friends of mine say that the job is very physically taxing. In both ultrasound and RT, if you work in a hospital setting, you have to push the machines around the hospital to do portable exams. In RT, you often need to be on your feet for hours doing surgery cases. In ultrasound, you are usually only there a short period of time.

However, in both cases, there are practice settings (outpatient clinics, specifically) where you wouldn't be required to do portable exams. In those cases, the issue is being on your feet for a long time. I personally don't have a problem with that; it seems more healthy than sitting in an office chair for me. For RT you often have to help lift patients. Patient positioning is a big thing in X-ray. I would definitely shadow somebody in both a hospital and an outpatient setting to see what you think about the physical aspect of the job. It's been my experience that a lot of RTs get sick of it and switch over to ultrasound, but I am sure there are many happy RTs as well. RT is also nice because you can get further education and do CTs or MRIs, or do an ultrasound program and be ARRT and ARDMS - which gives you lots of flexibility.

If you are fit enough to do the job without being miserable, then I do not think your age will be an issue. I really don't think employers or co-workers would care. I wouldn't.

I used to be in IT as well and the technology aspect of my sonography career is satisfying to me. However, it is an associate's degree level program, we are considered "just techs," and we are close to the bottom rung of the hospital hierarchy. As long as you have a healthy dose of humility you should be fine, but you might want to consider nursing, medical dosimetry, PA, and related careers as well. Eliminate them, shadow some RTs/US techs, and if you love it then do it.

 

[nate1974]

For slb,

I'm interested in becoming Diagnostic Sonographer. Don't know anything about, but it sounds like something I could enjoy. I'm currently in engineering and web design field. Interesting question: Are there a lot of males doing this job or is it mostly for women? I'm man, and I'm tired of office and just sitting all day and looking at the computer screen.

Are you independent or somebody is constantly checking you out when you are doing your job? I'm in Chicago also.

Do you think that this career has a good future? (read somewhere that ultrasound devices are becoming smaller and smaller and even some doctors are using it)

Do you have flex time at work and how many days of vacation do you have?

I kind of asked a lot of questions, and I'm sorry for that, but I'd certainly like to know inside info for this career from somebody that does it.

Thanks,
Nate

 

[slb]

Nate:

Like many health care fields, sonography is overwhelmingly female. However, there are male techs. I know a number of male techs in vascular and echo settings. Gender is not really a barrier, except in the case of transvaginal scanning - many places require you to have a female chaperone when you are doing a transvaginal scan. It wouldn't keep you from being hired (that would be illegal) but it is a bit of a pain in the butt.

You are not independent in this field, but no one is constantly looking over your shoulder - you do the scan yourself. I happen to have a good deal of autonomy in my position but I am lucky. You will answer to your lead tech and to either a radiologist or an obstetrician. Doctors, nurses, and your lead tech will boss you around. At my hospital, doctors and nurses get garage parking. I park five blocks away and have to take the shuttle. There is no 'midlevel' sonography position currently. Consequently, a doctor always must read your scan. This can be a bonus in some ways - the ultimate decision is up to them in clinical situations, and someone always has to be there to answer any questions you have.

OTOH, if you think it's an ectopic and the doctor thinks it's just a corpus luteum - guess whose opinion goes on the report? (Hint - it's the doctor.) If that idea bothers you, this might not be the career for you.

Portable ultrasound is awesome and good for techs. Easier to carry = less back strain. Many doctors scan. Radiologists ought to, obstetricians can, and ER docs do (but then send them to us afterwards, for some reason). That's not a threat to my profession. They make a heck of a lot more money reading the 10-15 or so scans I do a day, plus the scans all the other techs do, then they would by doing their own scanning.

Sonographers are like CT techs, mammo techs and MRI techs in some ways, in that we take the pictures the doctor reads. We can do it for a lot cheaper than they do, so it saves time and cost. The difference is that ultrasound is entirely operator dependent. If you don't find the ovarian mass, you don't take a picture of it, and the radiologist never puts it in the report, and the patient's cancer isn't found until the ascites builds up and she gets a CT. I choose what pictures to take, which means I have to know a lot about fetal and maternal anatomy/development . But I still am a tech under the direction of a doctor.

I don't have "flex time." I'm an hourly employee. I am scheduled for 40 hours a week and usually work 45-50, with time and a half for overtime. I hardly ever get a lunch break because we are extremely busy. I have 10 days of vacation a year, 3 personal days, and 6 sick days. I make $28 an hour, and I've been at my hospital for less than a year. Part time arrangements are easy to come by if you are experienced. You can work PRN (as needed). Many places need night shifters. You get a bonus for that.

There are hardly any ultrasound jobs in Chicago right now. New techs just out of school are freaking out about the lack of jobs. If you want to stay in Chicago, I'd say go to nursing school. Far more jobs around in nursing, and many more career paths available. Or if you are a tech type, check out Northwestern's School of Continuing studies Medical Informatics program. scs.northwestern.edu. That's an in-demand field with a lot more upward mobility potential.

 

[nickgangguo]

Thank slb for your infomation which is very helpful.
To get a good picture of a organ requires a good understanding of anatomy, is that true? is anatomy hard to learn? any tips. thanks a lot

 

[slb]

To get a good and appropriate image of an organ and its pathology requires an excellent knowledge of anatomy.

Is anatomy hard to learn?

Yes.

Is it impossible?

No.

Is it fun?

It is, if you like anatomy. Which I do.

I hope that answers your questions.

Cheers,
SLB

 

[echotech]

Hey guys,

I know this thread is a little outdated, but I have a bit of help that might be of aid to other people in similar situations to this thread's creator. I've been doing a lot of echocardiography/sonography research recently (I need a well-paying career, I want to help people, and I can't afford to be in school for 4 years.. sounds like a perfect match) and this site was the biggest help to me: http://www.echocardiographer.net/

Just thought I'd drop this off in case anyone else stumbled across this topic in their research

 

[sherrysunggg]

hi slb, I'm a sonographer student right now, already experiencing pain in my shoulder neck back and arm. I'm very small, and inactive. Can you let me know if you've seen an small sonographers not having this problem or overcoming it by exercising and stretching? I'm very dissappointed at this field and I'm not sure if I should drop the field now.

 

[ncaro]

Hi everyone! I'm a student whose applied to both a sonography program and echocardiography program at two different community colleges. I won't find out until April if I've been accepted to either program. I've shadowed sonography techs at the local hospital and found the job to be really interesting and like the idea of being able to "see through" people. I plan to shadow an echo-tech soon. So, while I'm really interested in the field, I am curious as to what the long haul is for techs. I've done some research and have only found some vague answers as to what does a sonographer advance to after a couple of years in the field? Like someone mentioned before, there are few bachelor programs/masters. What has been your personal experience? I've heard of techs branching off into application specialists... does anyone have experience with this? Thanks!

 

[AAP33]

Hi all,
Hopefully some people are still out there to talk about this topic. I have applied to a vascular ultrasound program and also a cardiac ultrasound program. I won't find out until May if I got into either of them, however, I wanted to know thoughts on which one is a better choice (if I end up having to choose between the two). I have shadowed both areas and I like both, it's hard to really decide which I would enjoy more. I do like the fact however, that in echo, you can eventually further specialize in pediatric and also fetal. Vascular exams seem to be quick, easy, to the point. They seem to only do the same few tests over and over. (I guess echo is the same test over and over again too). However, I was told vascular sonographers get paid more than general and echo sonographers. Does anyone know why? Also, I would prefer to work in an outpatient facility, clinic, or doctor's office so that I could have a better chance of having regular hours. Which area would have the most positions such as this? Thanks in advance!!

 

[AAP33]

To ncaro, I'm not an ultrasound tech....yet....but from what I know, I think after some time in the field, you can move into a supervisor position. Then, maybe like a chief sonographer. Hopefully somebody can help us figure it out.

 

[slb]

hi slb, I'm a sonographer student right now, already experiencing pain in my shoulder neck back and arm. I'm very small, and inactive. Can you let me know if you've seen an small sonographers not having this problem or overcoming it by exercising and stretching? I'm very dissappointed at this field and I'm not sure if I should drop the field now.

Hi. This is an old thread and you may have dropped out by now. Musculoskeletal pain is extremely common in sonographers. I don't know anybody in the field (really, no exaggeration) who does not struggle with it. I have pain in my wrist and shoulder after a long day routinely. I've already been to a physical therapist for it.

If you are having pain already consider getting out. Patients are getting fatter, which means you have to press harder, which means more strain.

 

[slb]

To ncaro, I'm not an ultrasound tech....yet....but from what I know, I think after some time in the field, you can move into a supervisor position. Then, maybe like a chief sonographer. Hopefully somebody can help us figure it out.

I'm a sonographer with managerial duties. I think I can answer this.

Yes, after some time in the field you can become lead tech. What does that really mean, though? It depends on the size of the hospital and their power structure. At my hospital the lead tech gets a 5% pay increase and a whole crapload of paperwork to do. At other hospitals the pay increase is higher, but the paperwork aspect never goes away.

Most sonographers I work with would never consider taking a lead tech job since it takes you away from the patients and gives you a lot of headaches. But it depends on what you want. Sometimes the patients are the headaches, and it's nice to take a break.