skiiboy said:
Would it suprise you to learn that a study just demonstrated that chiropractors outperformed medical residents in the interpretation of radiographs. Also, chiropractic radiologists (yes there is such a thing) performed just as well as board certified medical radiologists did.
Wow, so you figure if you just keep stating the same misinformation on different threads in this forum it will suddenly be true?
I'll repost my answer to this bovine scatology to your similar post in another thread.
Once again, do you even read the studies you describe, or do you just guess at what they say? You are nowhere close on these two either (yep - there are two of them!). Here are links to the abstracts:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12221360 and
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7638657.
Dealing with them in order, the first shows that of thirteen people, five MDs and 8 DCs, interrater agreement for DCs was a low as 0.44 (among the five chiropractors not identified as chiropractic radiologists). Now a kappa of 1.0 means complete agreement, and they scored a 0.44 (meaning they agreed on the findings in only 44% of the films). Second, look at the study design itself, 13 people looked at 300 x-rays to detect an abnormality (present in 50 films). So what! I have said that I do not doubt, necessarily, a DCs skill in NMS, but in non-NMS conditions. Besides, with thirteen participants, I really question the power of the study.
And lastly, lets look at some conclusions here.
"The intraobserver agreement showed mean kappas of 0.58, 0.68, and 0.72, respectively. The difference between the chiropractic radiologists and medical radiologists was not significant. However, there was a difference between the chiropractors and the other professional groups. {emphasis added}. "The medical radiologists were more specific than the others." "Good professional relationships between the professions are recommended to facilitate interprofessional consultation in case of doubt by the chiropractors." {emphasis added}.
The second, demonstrated that,
"Post hoc tests (P < 0.05) revealed that skeletal radiologists achieved significantly higher test results than did all other medical groups; that the test results of general medical radiologists and medical radiology residents was significantly higher than those of medical clinicians; that test results of medical students was significantly poorer than that of all other medical groups; that the performance of chiropractic radiologists and chiropractic radiology residents was significantly higher than that of chiropractic clinicians and chiropractic students; that no significant differences was revealed in the mean values of performance of chiropractic clinicians and chiropractic students"
and concluded
"These data demonstrate a substantial increase in test results of all radiologists and radiology residents when compared to students and clinicians in both medicine and chiropractic related to the interpretation of abnormal radiographs of the lumbosacral spine and pelvis. Furthermore, the study reinforces the need for radiologic specialists to reduce missed diagnoses, misdiagnoses, and medicolegal complications.
I will grant that chiropractic students did do better than medical students, and that chiropractic radiology residents (who are by definition already practicing chiropractors) did better than radiology residents (not yet licensed). But this study was limited to the reading of lumbar and sacral spine films, hardly the first and last line of diagnostics.
skiiboy said:
At the Texas Back Institute, a very well known orthopedic institution, chiropractors are first line docs used to rule out pathology.
And once again, the Texas Back Institute is a chiropractic practice. No one debates that chiropractors
believe they can rule out pathology. The question is, does research confirm this ability, and the answer is no.
skiiboy said:
Also, chiropractors do spend atleast a year and a half in a clinic.
As opposed to the five and a half that a BE/BC FP, internist, or EP does. A year and a half in clinic gives chiropractors roughly the experience level of the average fourth year medical student. If you are saying that a chiropractor can diagnose only as well as a fourth year medical student, we actually agree on something for once.
Unfortunately for your argument, MDs and DOs go on for another 3 years minimum of training after that point.
skiiboy said:
In fact, in certain chiropractic schools such as western states, chiropractors are trained in minor surgery and child birth.
That is interesting given that Chiropractic is, by definition, non-surgical care. From
http://admissions.palmer.edu/info/whatis.htm "Chiropractors use natural, drugless, non-surgical health care and rely on the body's inherent recuperative abilities." Or is Palmer College just "ignorant to what chiropractors know and do not know"?
- H
BTW - Yes PH, I know I said I'd stay out of these debates, but this guy is such a kook, I can't resist. I can't just let this BS go...